Author Topic: Leave or stay in the EU?  (Read 77719 times)

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Offline Falka

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2016, 04:33:32 pm »
+1
Poland is really that far to EU/close to Russia or just irony?

Close to Russia? Not at all. People in the ruling party hate Russia maybe even more than EU. But yes, we're very, very far from EU. Not common people, actually Polish people are one of biggest EU enthusiasts, but our government is on the brink of leaving EU.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 04:38:06 pm by Falka »
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Offline Tibes

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2016, 04:37:43 pm »
-1
Its quite far from EU and growing apart more. They arent close to Russia. The Russian bears claw in Europe always comes closest to those countries that have no strong alliances and low or no public opinion in the eyes of the international community.

Offline Torben

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2016, 05:03:55 pm »
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suck on my headstock fucking imbeciles,  Europe always, forever

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Offline Yeldur

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2016, 05:09:01 pm »
0
I understand the sentiment,

I hoped the Scottish independence vote went through for the same reason. Because the shit the people living there would have to go through, the crawling back for help, it'd be remembered for generations and stop that stupid shit happening again.
Well, if we vote to leave the EU, chances are another referendum will be called asking the question of whether they want to leave the UK again.
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Offline Christo

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2016, 05:09:50 pm »
+2
Stay.

fucking pussies, heil merkel o/
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Offline Yeldur

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2016, 05:10:46 pm »
+1
Was there anything in particular in there that you found convincing?
I felt like a rag doll, each party had their different points but each one was equally correct, in the end they all cancelled each other out, which made the mock vote we took part in difficult to answer.

We had rep's from Lib Dem, Conservatives and UKIP, sadly nobody from Labour was there, would have been interested in their take and a University Professor in History. The debate was interesting and I can't remember any exact points but for the most part each party had their say (Conservatives and Lib Dems were at each others throats the entire time, was rather funny to listen to them have a battle) and it was an interesting experience. It's definitely opened my eyes a bit more and helped me to make more of a decision, however, I'm still on the fence >_<
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 05:14:16 pm by Yeldur »
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Offline Moncho

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2016, 05:14:14 pm »
+2
This old golden clip from Yes, Minister (1982ish) becomes relevant yet again:

Offline Tibes

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2016, 05:18:53 pm »
+1
What are the cons for UK if it leaves? I see kinda only pro-s. EU cant really do anything about it. UK is the core part of Europe whose development and wealth is directly related to that of the entire region. Other European countries cant isolate UK. European countries cant really even talk smack about UK that much. :rolleyes:

Offline Angantyr

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2016, 05:25:34 pm »
+2


Offline Yeldur

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2016, 05:46:53 pm »
+2
I can recommend this speech. Starts at 2.19.


Very interesting speech!


All of these were very interesting to watch, thanks for the insight!
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Offline Angantyr

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2016, 06:31:27 pm »
0
Douglas Murray on how the EU is tackling the migrant invasion.


Nigel Farage; Turkey deal analogous with the Danegeld.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 06:35:31 pm by Angantyr »

Offline Murmillus_Prime

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2016, 12:28:32 am »
+2
I dont have a strong feeling one way or the other, i'm sure there are genuine good reasons for each case but i've yet to hear any MPs actually mention any that make sense.

Because it's impossible to avoid, i've ended up hearing the odd debate on TV or radio between 'leave' and 'stay' advocates. Based purely on the individual's on those shows i'm tempted to vote 'stay' because the arguments of the 'leave' party have invariably pissed me off.

eg. (I dont really follow this topic or care overly-much so excuse the dumbed-down and poorly-understood content below)
'Stay guy' - If we leave EU, we will need to individually renegotiate various trade/import/export deals with EU countries, possibly at less favourable rates
'Leave guy' - Why would anyone already trading with us now not trade with us outside the EU?
'Stay guy' - Yes, but in the process of renegotiating we cannot guarantee that the same agreements will...
'Leave guy' - Nonononono. Explain to me why any country wouldnt keep trading with us if we simply left the EU.
'Stay guy' - That's not what i...
'Leave guy' - Countries want to trade with the UK, *i* dont seee any reason why trade terms would be less favourable if we have to renegotiate them from scratch, so we'll probably be fine

Makes me want to vote 'stay'. This is the kinda shit you get when parliament is full of SNP, someday we're going to run out of things to break away from xD

Most if not all of  those public figures advocating for us to remain in the EU benefit from and have their own interests at stake from the EU in its current state in one way shape or form. Many times those in the remain campaign have blatantly lied to the public as to what the consequences of leaving the EU would be.. Saying that millions of jobs will be threatened, that we will lose trade with the EU, that the quality of life for the average Brit will deteriorate, that we would lose laws that protect workers and laws that protect peoples rights. Some advocating for remain have even gone as far as to say Brexit is some sort of conspiracy concocted by far right groups sponsored by Putin..  While at the same time those advocating that we remain all seem to be past and present public figures who in one way or another made something of themselves and benefitted from the status quo. Also many of these people would be what some consider to be non other than figureheads for the "neoliberal" establishment, proponents of big business, corporations, lobby groups and trade agreements like TTIP which further take power and opportunities away from the average person.

We need to remind ourselves that some nations, including Britain joined the EU to be a part of a common market. Over the years this membership had mutated from being one almost wholly about trade and regulation to one which dictates to us about what we can and can't do, what we can and can't buy from non EU states or what limits we can or can't impose on  products from hoovers to MP3 players.. Uncontrolled immigration has led to a massive influx of low and unskilled workers and these circumstances have driven down wages, and increased competetion for any new job vacancies.. Mass immigration which has been precipitated by the existence of schengen zone has contributed to recuding the amount of spaces available in schools, increased the waiting lists to see a doctor or dentist, contributed to crime, and put pressure on our housing shortage and added pressure to local authorities.. But it has to be said that these problems are not "all the migrants fault", some of these problems arose from not just an increased population but also a reduced spending on infrastructure and mismanagement by past and current governments.

The EU could have been something amazing, it really could.. And there are still good things about being an EU member. Unfortunately under its tenure we've seen the gap between rich and poor increase, we've seen economies implode.. We've seen scandal after scandal... Every time a new scandal pops up the constituent members of the EU always come out and say "we will do this or do that, lessons have been learned, we will tackle this or tackle that", but by then it's too late the damage has been done and another scandal pops up. Then there's the geopolitical aspect of the EU, its expansion, competing and then coming to blows with Russia over Ukraine. It sometimes seems the EU is non other than a political front for NATO and through the expansion of both we only guarantee futher tensions with Russia, tensions which threaten global stability. The rapid expansion of the EU has also threatened not just the security of its member states but also the economic stability  and viability of the EU itself, which undermines the very reasons why Britain purportedly became a member of the EEC in the first place.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 12:59:45 am by Murmillus_Prime »
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Offline Murmillus_Prime

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2016, 01:01:50 am »
0
What are the cons for UK if it leaves? I see kinda only pro-s. EU cant really do anything about it. UK is the core part of Europe whose development and wealth is directly related to that of the entire region. Other European countries cant isolate UK. European countries cant really even talk smack about UK that much. :rolleyes:

Since we have a trade defecit with the EU, some people suggest that they need us more than we need them. In truth we need eachother equally, but we don't need to be tied at the hip politically or legislatively  to fulfil this need.
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Offline Angantyr

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2016, 01:43:49 pm »
+1
Watched a lecture by a german guest professor last year about contemporary history and the 'German Problem' in particular. He argued that the UK was mainly needed for its fleet, air force and nuclear armaments, the hard power of an EU which is currently trying to build up a military wing.