Poll

Will Putin command further invasion of Ukraine:

He will and he should, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will, but he should not, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will not, because <random witty/boring reason>
Who is mister Putin?
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Author Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine  (Read 485628 times)

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Offline Beauchamp

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #450 on: February 23, 2014, 02:00:11 am »
+2
isn't peacefull splitting of the country the best option when its so divided? living in multi-cultural country is extremely difficult and takes a lot of understanding and mature behavior from population. i don't see this can be achieved in the ukraine, especially when people are really poor there. i think there will be more examples in the future (scotland, belgium, catalonia...) as there were in not so distant past (kosovo, czechoslovakia).

when majority of population lets say in crimea would like to join russia, well what can you do against it (and should you even do anything against it?). the same goes to western ukraine.

i'm sure this is what putin desires and plans for, i'm even sure he'd like to embrace eastern ukraine with its world most fertile sold as well. but is it really a bad option, better than artificially trying to hold something together?
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Offline Thomek

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #451 on: February 23, 2014, 02:34:19 am »
+1
I don't think there will be splitting of the country or violence like in Yugoslavia. That was a much more artificial state than Ukraine, and the people were nationalistic with a much more deeply rooted identity.

There is still of course a fine line of balance to be had for Ukraine between the west and Russia in the future.. It's actually interesting to take the point of view from Russia in this matter. Would be nice to hear opinions from Russians here as well. What are you afraid of now? Be honest. :)

Personally I have no idea.. It could be that this would create a greater divide within the russian population of Russia (like the divide in ukraine) on the opinion of the west. Some will see the west as a threat, others as a democratic blessing? How would this be used by those in power? And can they stop the internet?

It also really depends on how Ukraine is faring after this.. It would be to Putin's (Not Russia's) advantage if it didn't go well, and that is a source of worry..

What I hope is for the Russian internal system to change, without loosing the strength it has. A democracy is more efficient than the corrupt nightmare it currently is, and that's why Russia in its current form eventually _will_ loose the battle.   BUT! There needs to be a balance in this world, and if EU/US becomes too dominating it is not good.. Syria would be just a one sided affair and the crazy muslims would be in power. (i.ex)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 02:42:19 am by Thomek »
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Offline pepejul

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #452 on: February 23, 2014, 02:45:58 am »
0
French photographer filming snipers killing pple around him...

Very hard to see that..If you are senstive please don't watch.... You can feel the pain, the fear but the bravery of these unarmed pple just dying there... Why do they stay under fire ?

WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT (pple killed)
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)


Incredible footage : just like if you were in the middle of hell : http://youtu.be/qSvj8F_Br4M
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Offline Christo

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #453 on: February 23, 2014, 03:09:54 am »
+1
Quote from: pepejul on February 23, 2014, 02:45:58 am
French photographer filming snipers killing pple around him...

Very hard to see that..If you are senstive please don't watch.... You can feel the pain, the fear but the bravery of these unarmed pple just dying there... Why do they stay under fire ?

WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT (pple killed)
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)


Incredible footage : just like if you were in the middle of hell : http://youtu.be/qSvj8F_Br4M

fucking hell

http://ars-himmel.livejournal.com/127591.html

I've seen this in the comment section, it says these are 'fake berkut soldiers' with yellow stripes.

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What's up with that, is this true?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 03:21:21 am by Christo »
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Offline Kirman

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #454 on: February 23, 2014, 03:36:26 am »
+1
Quote from: pepejul on February 23, 2014, 02:45:58 am
French photographer filming snipers killing pple around him...

Very hard to see that..If you are senstive please don't watch.... You can feel the pain, the fear but the bravery of these unarmed pple just dying there... Why do they stay under fire ?

WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT (pple killed)
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)


Incredible footage : just like if you were in the middle of hell : http://youtu.be/qSvj8F_Br4M

Now this is sad, i've read lots of articles about protests in Ukraine. Some of them were saying protestors are fascist etc etc.. But killing people cause of protests that's sick. I don't care about their ideology and i hope the current government will have to face with this.
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Offline Aelfwine

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #455 on: February 23, 2014, 03:57:41 am »
+1
Damn me i just have to post this...

There is an interesting (long, 1h 46m) documentary about the 1992 romanian revolution: "Videogramme einer revolution" aka Videograms of a revolution, Harun Farocki, Andrei Ujica. It's easy to find.

God and all the saints are whispering to me it may be instructive for ukrainians mostly but for everyone really. Needs to be watched carefully though.
I don't believe in god or the saints but i have to obey.
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Offline Christo

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #456 on: February 23, 2014, 04:02:30 am »
+1
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Offline Tibe

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #457 on: February 23, 2014, 07:47:24 am »
+3
They raided Yanukovych's villa. Holy crap its got its own greenhouse, zoo, golfcourse and shit.
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
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Its got basically everything. I mean good god, this is pretty much what a mansion would look like if they made a sequel to the movie "Dictator".
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Offline Molly

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #458 on: February 23, 2014, 08:38:56 am »
+2
Quote from: Christo on February 23, 2014, 03:09:54 am
(click to show/hide)
First thought that came to my mind:
Maybe some nationalist sick fucks started to stir up shit this way to get/keep the violence going...
No foundation but German history, gut feeling and a low opinion about anything right from the middle (of common sense).
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Offline serr

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #459 on: February 23, 2014, 09:08:04 am »
+2
(click to show/hide)

No, those guys with yellow stripes are not fake, there are several videos where you can see them cooperate with other police. Actually you can see them on video Pepe posted.

Another video where you can see them better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqWB5eJ2NpA#t=65

About how russians view this... It depends what information do they use. They have very specific media. While western media also tended to show mostly violence against protesters and less how protesters were throwing Molotovs(that is what I understand from this topic), it is completely different for Russia. Government and Putin control almost all tv channels and what they show can be decsribed as propaganda, according to them all protesters are neochocolate chip cookie hired by USA who started violence without any reason and that only mistake made by Yanukovich is that he didn't order to use fire guns with live rounds from the very beginning.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 09:23:01 am by serr »
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Offline Segd

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #460 on: February 23, 2014, 09:25:56 am »
+5
Quote from: Thomek on February 23, 2014, 02:34:19 am
Personally I have no idea.. It could be that this would create a greater divide within the russian population of Russia (like the divide in ukraine) on the opinion of the west. Some will see the west as a threat, others as a democratic blessing? How would this be used by those in power? And can they stop the internet?
We have Olympics to watch, nobody gives a shit :) Want to know Russian opinion? Read Russia Today http://rt.com/ Due to biased tv propaganda, Russian opinion is pretty solid about most topics.


More pictures of Yanukovich' Cabin in the Woods:
http://zyalt.livejournal.com/1007568.html
Even ship & Zoo...
Although everybody was telling about the Golden Toilet... But there are no golden toilets in his house! Damn opposition just wanted to make honest President to look bad! Shame on them! :)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 09:55:32 am by Segd »
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Offline BIA_ivani4

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #461 on: February 23, 2014, 10:05:22 am »
+2
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 10:11:11 am by BIA_ivani4 »
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Offline serr

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #462 on: February 23, 2014, 10:45:51 am »
+1
Quote
Read. There are audio book for a long time. Gleb Bobrov, "the age born dead". 2007

Thank you, will read, but don't expect too much from it. At least video there looks like some anti EU propaganda where EU is evil and Russia is good. World is more complex than that.
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Offline BIA_ivani4

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #463 on: February 23, 2014, 10:55:04 am »
+2
Russia in the book is almost there. The plot of Russia is not involved in the conflict... So to say, to spit it to Ukraine. http://lib.ru/MEMUARY/AFGAN/BOBROW_G/epoha.txt
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Offline DaveUKR

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #464 on: February 23, 2014, 11:15:09 am »
+4
I am myself more than 50% Russian (If I counted right, I'm almost 3/4 Russian and 1/4 Ukrainian or maybe 1/2-1/2), I've been to most of EU countries and I know how different things are in EU, Ukraine and Russia. I've also been to eastern Ukrainian cities, like what Serr posted, these cities are extremely polluted by outdated and mostly useless industry factories. Well, these factories give working places to people but besides that their meaning of existence is doubtful. They all need to be modernised to fill the gab in the Ukrainian economy. For instance, Ukraine is in top 10 of countries in the World producing coal among with such giants as USA, China, India and Russia. And all the mines are located on the east of Ukraine. I've been to industrial cities, they look like post-apocalyptic soviet cities. And I doubt that anyone who has seen European countries would want to unite with Russia.

Also, as I've already stated: the current opposition who has obtained power in the Parliament now is not much better so things won't change drastically.
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