Meanwhile in Ukraine

[DonNicko]

Haters gonna hate!
It says, there is no investigation about people were shot on Maidan. Haters: this is fucking russian propoganda, lol useless festival, poor russian zombies and so on. It says shooting were made from buildings which were controlled by Maidan forces. Haters lol this russian propoganda, you morons stupid brainwashed pigs and so on.

[Butan]

Until there is a serious will to consider the theories around "what happened at Maidan", anyone voicing controversial thoughts will be automatically shut down by the same arguments we see here on that thread.
Thats why its ultimately easier for Maidan supporters to ignore the issues and let small NGO or political enemies (who didnt wait for their authorization anyway) with little to no backers/credits and no budget/privilege access dent their teeth on the matter, so that even if they unearth something it will not have any impact on the unconvinced masses.

Whether there is something to discover or not, on this kind of subject the truth simply cannot come out before a whole generation has passed, minimum. Less if we're lucky, more or even never and it will pass into legend if we're not. Its just human nature.
In the meantime, stop banging your head on this and go on with more recent matters 

[Kuujis]

Haters gonna hate

So a bunch of hipsters gathered and gave this "documentary" a nomination...

And then, while I watch it on the second screen, rewinding the more interesting parts...

BAM! https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=756adhtY03w#t=2190 - 3 shooters arrested (wohoo!), from BALTICS (OF ALL THINGS), one of them A WOMAN, hint: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Tights . And OFC - NOONE talks about them, because its a conspiracy by ***THEM*** That was probably the final nail...

Although - no, this was the https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=756adhtY03w#t=2983 nail. Nulans voiceover of select happenings from Maidain. The same few, where rioters do what rioters do. How come the "fun" like the naked guy happened and why the people GOT enraged after being there for 3 months - whole shit-documentary does not care to show and explain. You want a documentary? Proper one would start NOT with "these are guilty", "these are not", but with trying to find motives. Of this - there were only scant mentions...

Oh, and the end https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=756adhtY03w#t=3124 - I failed to see RT there... although shots of their news cast WERE used  and I believe I recognized voice of one of their english speaking showmans... oh well... moving on.

This "documentary" is an attempt to muddle the water, which is muddy as it is. The same "it was Lithuanians shooting at Lithuanian people" during http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_Events_%28Lithuania%29, nothing has changed, just the quality of montage. And if you actually HAD a critical eye - you would see that too.

You come here writing shit about shit ideas of which you have "proofs". Those being ... what exactly? A guy, explaining, that a bullet, after ricocheting from ground, can pass through a trunk and still have sufficient stopping power? Sniper experts failing to notice, that fucking 2 bullet burst was being used (the same closely analyzed case BTW), and still, with a straight face calling this "snipers"? Its easier than god knows what to create enormous amount of conspiracy stories in cases like these, but one should not presume to "know the truth".

Do I believe Ukrainiant investigation? No. Do I believe that there were western snipers shooting? No. Why? Because there was more than enough local and russian ones, both of which were cheaper and easier to aquire and use. Occams razor.

[DonNicko]

again so many letters and nothing at once, what did you want to say?
My quesion is just why there is no invetigation of Maidan and Odessa. I don't make statements like you Kuujis, because I don't really know who shot there. Just some theories. Can be they true, yes they can. Can it be Russia, yes it can. So if it was Russia, 7 month later no investigation. Why?

[Kuujis]

again so many letters and nothing at once, what did you want to say?
My quesion is just why there is no invetigation of Maidan and Odessa. I don't make statements like you Kuujis, because I don't really know who shot there. Just some theories. Can be they true, yes they can. Can it be Russia, yes it can. So if it was Russia, 7 month later no investigation. Why?

Well, there was investigation into Maidan shootings, you don't believe it fully, I don't believe it fully. You want another investigation which neither you nor I will believe fully? What will it change?

I pointed NUMEROURS places where this "documentary" stinks of the line pushed by russian state media and thus - it's imaginary "impartiality" is just that - bullshit. As to those experts - they have their oppinion, some of which also do not match with what the documentary implies. It holed as a cheese from Holland. Recognize it for what it is.

[DonNicko]

Well, there was investigation into Maidan shootings, you don't believe it fully, I don't believe it fully. You want another investigation which neither you nor I will believe fully? What will it change?

I pointed NUMEROURS places where this "documentary" stinks of the line pushed by russian state media and thus - it's imaginary "impartiality" is just that - bullshit. As to those experts - they have their oppinion, some of which also do not match with what the documentary implies. It holed as a cheese from Holland. Recognize it for what it is.

What invetigation? I just heard that, Berkut is guilty without any proofs and investigation. You call this investigation? And about Odessa, everybody forgot about it? So many time passed and no invetsigation yet. Because of that the theory comes out that somebody doesn't want it investigated, then who? Russia, Ukraine or smbd else?

[Kuujis]

What invetigation? I just heard that, Berkut is guilty without any proofs and investigation. You call this investigation? And about Odessa, everybody forgot about it? So many time passed and no invetsigation yet. Because of that the theory comes out that somebody doesn't want it investigated, then who? Russia, Ukraine or smbd else?

Don't play dumb, you don't need to. There was an invetigation into Maidan stuff. Up to you to believe ir or not. So again - what would the Odessa investigation results change?

Its a puny red herring, when the elephant in the room is russia stirring up shit in Ukraine on a war scale.

[Anuran]

bah, anuran, those videos are so fucking disgusting, I don't even know where to start. At least they gave me a notion of what a fucking idiot asshole you must be IRL, Xavier Naidoo my ass.

Thank you for your constructive and helpful criticism.

What's your problem with the videos man?

[Umbra]

Completely out of fucks to give

[DonNicko]

From the eyewitness:

Today I can't fall asleep and I won't be able probably. I graduated from school in the North and I study in Kharkov now. Sat on Petrovskogo St. at restaurant with the friend today. Everything was cheerful among themselves communicated danced, drove a round dance, all saw with each other. But approximately at half past twelve switched off music whether a disk to replace or I don't know for what purpose. 2-3 tables started shouting glory to Ukraine, Putin....., the anthem was sung which none of them plainly didn't know. Some looked at it with obvious contempt having got acquainted it became clear later that it is the guy from Stakhanov and two families from Alchevsk. Further in other part of the hall fight began people started fighting because of that that someone asked to calm down "patriotic" students, a fight began and all ran out on the street and here ATTENTION the girl have taken a table knife which was given for meat ran out on the street and cut the guy a throat, it cut a carotid. He bled profusely and died for 1,5 minute. Simply because of that that the guy most likely from Donbass also expressed against. His friend sobbing over him too in blood and did him an artificial respiration. And children from that company quickly left

[Butan]

Completely out of fucks to give

I liked the part: "if they had control of it, would they still shell it?"

Can be both used to know who controls what, and who fired where. Should convince some of the people here that still think its possible to use artillery on your own territory. It may also teach that GRAD isnt a only-russian thing.



The ceasefire has worked to reduce fighting, but didnt stop it at all, both sides still exchanging fire sporadically at best.
Will the ceasefire ever expire and "official" bigger fight begin anew? Or will it continue and progressively goes toward a real in-effect bilateral ceasefire? Time will tell.

[Kuujis]

I liked the part: "if they had control of it, would they still shell it?"
Can be both used to know who controls what, and who fired where. Should convince some of the people here that still think its possible to use artillery on your own territory. It may also teach that GRAD isnt a only-russian thing.
The ceasefire has worked to reduce fighting, but didnt stop it at all, both sides still exchanging fire sporadically at best.
Will the ceasefire ever expire and "official" bigger fight begin anew? Or will it continue and progressively goes toward a real in-effect bilateral ceasefire? Time will tell.

Check your mental faculties Butan, you suprise me. This is the same guy, who a couple of days ago was directing artillery firing at the airport (I think in this Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4d3YXHFx_Y). Now he sits (guessing from view in the video) ~500-1000 m away from the airport and is proclaiming, that "if they held it, would shell it?". IF they have a nice distant view of the airport - WHERE are they standing? 

And your "both sides exchange fire" is supposed to describe separatists, who keep attacking Airport and Ukrainians, who cannot do much, but fire back, once they see something to fire at... You call this "sporadic exchange of fire at best". I call this - "rebels violating ceasfire, who know, that Ukraine cannot in its current state renew full combat operations, thus do what they want without major fears".

[DonNicko]

Check your mental faculties Butan, you suprise me. This is the same guy, who a couple of days ago was directing artillery firing at the airport (I think in this Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4d3YXHFx_Y). Now he sits (guessing from view in the video) ~500-1000 m away from the airport and is proclaiming, that "if they held it, would shell it?". IF they have a nice distant view of the airport - WHERE are they standing? 

5th of October, army of Novorussia took an airport, Ukranian TV shows that Ukranian army is still contolling the airport, showing video where airport is still with not broken windows. To disprove it rebels recorded this video to show that Novorussia controls airport now. Because of that that man said "if they held it, would shell it?" Don't get what the point where are they? kuujis what did you want to show?

And your "both sides exchange fire" is supposed to describe separatists, who keep attacking Airport and Ukrainians, who cannot do much, but fire back, once they see something to fire at... You call this "sporadic exchange of fire at best". I call this - "rebels violating ceasfire, who know, that Ukraine cannot in its current state renew full combat operations, thus do what they want without major fears".

Fight is going only in airport now. Don't know who started to fire first, Because rebels say that ukranian army, ukranian army says that rebels, I just know that rebels made a decision to clear an airport after some civilians were killed after bombardments. But you know better Kuujis who started first.

[Butan]

I meant that they do even more than fighting sporadically.

Exchanging gun fire, heavy weapon fire is one thing, exchanging artillery strike is more like full blown skirmishes    its a weird cease fire they got down there.
And sorry but the "Rebels fired first, so we have to retaliate" only works at the first ever shot after the cease fire was applied. Afterward its only war and you can not argue that the rebels are the only ones taking the initiative.
Its been a month already so you can easily guess that they have been switching the attacker/defender mantle at least a hundred times since, trying to argue anything else is childish at best.

Check your mental faculties Butan, you suprise me. This is the same guy, who a couple of days ago was directing artillery firing at the airport (I think in this Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4d3YXHFx_Y). Now he sits (guessing from view in the video) ~500-1000 m away from the airport and is proclaiming, that "if they held it, would shell it?". IF they have a nice distant view of the airport - WHERE are they standing? 

I dont know what you are trying to prove? Whether he sits directly around the airport, a few kilometers away, or in Moscow, if Ukrainian shells are landing at the airport it means that its not a Ukrainian controlled zone, because you dont fire at your own positions with artillery. Thats all there is to say.

[Kafein]

you dont fire at your own positions with artillery.

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Someone got to make this thread worth reading.