Poll

Will Putin command further invasion of Ukraine:

He will and he should, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will, but he should not, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will not, because <random witty/boring reason>
Who is mister Putin?

Author Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine  (Read 485455 times)

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Offline Leshma

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6915 on: October 02, 2014, 01:01:29 pm »
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Kosovo wasn't the same as Crimea. Russia protected their interests on Crimea, while Kosovo pretty much had nothing to do with USA. Reason why USA got involved aren't crimes against humanity (they let that slip way on many occasions in Africa). It's just that Kosovo Albanians were smarter then Serbians. Kosovo Albanians invested their money to school their children in USA, while Yugoslavia/Serbia was isolated from the world. When situation emerged there was strong lobbying in Washington to help Albanians, not because Americans care but because those who were lobbying were paid by American Albanians to do so (those who studied in USA). Also there is stupid conspiracy theory that says how Clinton choose to intervene because he wanted people to forget about sex scandal. But that is nonsense.

People have strange view on things. You need to realize that in eyes of USA or Russia a country like Serbia or small part of it like Kosovo is basically nothing. They (Americans) have no ties to it, it's just a small, random country to them. For Russians it was different because they claim friendship with Serbs (although they rarely helped, unlike the Japanese who are the only people who regularly donate to Serbia). It is easy to understand how couple of millions of dollars in pockets of the right people could force a country to try out some of its newest toys and bring FREEDOM to the world once again.

Ukraine is... different. It has strong ties with Russia and it's cold war all over again. Much more serious then Kosovo or any other previous case. It is so serious that most people forgot about Crimea and are focused on current events.

Offline Butan

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6916 on: October 02, 2014, 02:26:44 pm »
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Declaring independence is totally legal, provided you have some legitimacy to do it.

Carry on and define a legitimate cause.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6917 on: October 02, 2014, 02:32:15 pm »
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Might makes right.

Offline Mala

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6918 on: October 02, 2014, 04:12:32 pm »
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...
Maidan revolution with anti-russian slogans, Crimea didn't like and wanted to seperate, there were some threats from Right sector to bring an order in Crimea, Russia sends special forces, no dead people. Better. ...
well, during this time russian media has stated that there are a lot of dead people. that is why a "civil defence militias" have poped up, whose members were absolutely not russian soldiers.
and in the end it were russian soldiers all the time "xaxaxa, we have fooled you.) and the lynch victims did not exists anymore.

Offline Butan

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6919 on: October 02, 2014, 04:41:00 pm »
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well, during this time russian media has stated that there are a lot of dead people. that is why a "civil defence militias" have poped up, whose members were absolutely not russian soldiers.
and in the end it were russian soldiers all the time "xaxaxa, we have fooled you.) and the lynch victims did not exists anymore.


6 months after the events in Crimea and we still read this kind of bullshit post, its quite saddening.


2 minutes background check if you want to unlearn stupidity:
(click to show/hide)


Russian garrisoned soldiers and Ukrainian militias didnt start the civilian movement, they merely blocked Ukrainian soldiers in their barracks and patrolled the streets during the events, forbidding Ukrainian authority on Crimean soil, which stopped any possible repression and allowed full access to the local government to apply extaordinary measures: referendum and accession to the Russian Federation.
The results of the referendum are too big to be believed and obviously rigged or at least not properly done, but the anti-Maidan movement wasnt created by Russia, it was created by Maidan itself and created unrest in the ethnic russian oblast which were subsequently backed by Russia on minor/large scales, through dubiously legal or unconventional means.

Why is it so hard to accept that the unrest originated from the Ukrainian population itself?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 04:44:26 pm by Butan »

Offline Maksimus

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6920 on: October 02, 2014, 05:05:09 pm »
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Because people need boogey country to justify huge costs of arms, and ofcourse USA thinks how to hide their the hugest debt of the world
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 05:12:05 pm by Maksimus »

Offline Mala

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6921 on: October 02, 2014, 07:18:59 pm »
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6 months after the events in Crimea and we still read this kind of bullshit post, its quite saddening.


2 minutes background check if you want to unlearn stupidity:
(click to show/hide)


...
the reports about riots with lots of deaths in crimea have started at the beginning of march.

anyway, i have write in the beginning of this thread that i can understand that a large part of the population wants to join russia to have a better life, thats ok.
but my problem is that the russian PR machine has done a piss poor job to sell me this whole annexation thing somewhat plausible. (they were better during the georgia crisis).

all i have heared is "this was our land before, must protect your people from nat-sees" (mainly arguments for a national audience).

Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6922 on: October 02, 2014, 07:45:00 pm »
0

6 months after the events in Crimea and we still read this kind of bullshit post, its quite saddening.

2 minutes background check if you want to unlearn stupidity:
(click to show/hide)

Russian garrisoned soldiers and Ukrainian militias didnt start the civilian movement, they merely blocked Ukrainian soldiers in their barracks and patrolled the streets during the events, forbidding Ukrainian authority on Crimean soil, which stopped any possible repression and allowed full access to the local government to apply extaordinary measures: referendum and accession to the Russian Federation.
The results of the referendum are too big to be believed and obviously rigged or at least not properly done, but the anti-Maidan movement wasnt created by Russia, it was created by Maidan itself and created unrest in the ethnic russian oblast which were subsequently backed by Russia on minor/large scales, through dubiously legal or unconventional means.

Why is it so hard to accept that the unrest originated from the Ukrainian population itself?
You have been dealt by it, it seems.... congratz.
Little green men were there since day 0 basically. You call that "didn't start", I call that "were instrumental in".
Merely prevented Ukrainiant authority in Crimea... How else one would call this... occupation maybe?
anti-maidan was create via HUGE amount of russian propaganda about naztee junta, which you and a bunch of spiderpig-sheep like DonNicko bought and believe. Then all that remained is to act upon the beliefe, which - with encouragement of well organized little green men and other operatives of russia - was quite quick.
And the rest is history.

Offline Anuran

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6923 on: October 02, 2014, 09:31:17 pm »
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visitors can't see pics , please register or login


I just turned your world upside-down

If you think so. :wink: Do you think I didn't know that Putin was integrated "normally" before? This picture is from a G8 meeting. I know about that. Now Russia is excluded from G8 so it's called G7. But I still don't get how an amicable meeting should turn my world view (whatever you mean) upside-down. If you feel good and superior now, I'll let you. Or do you want to say that I want Russia to be excluded from everything or did you mean that--- I am confused! :|

Some other meetings which won't look that nice anymore.
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

I'm actually wondering when the "nazi club" will be swung, since I am a German criticizing the system, media, politicians etc. xD
But after this reply to me, I feel it coming closer.

Offline Kafein

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6924 on: October 02, 2014, 10:01:19 pm »
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Anuran, you really do have double standards. Westerners spotted shaking hands with Svoboda leader, your logical conclusion is that they are nazi sympathizer, nazi sympathizers shake hands with Putin, everything is fine.

Offline Christo

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6925 on: October 02, 2014, 10:30:23 pm »
+1
Those contagious handshakes man! Better be careful!
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                                                                                            Thanks to cmpxchg8b for the picture!

Offline Anuran

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6926 on: October 02, 2014, 11:21:11 pm »
+1
Anuran, you really do have double standards. Westerners spotted shaking hands with Svoboda leader, your logical conclusion is that they are nazi sympathizer, nazi sympathizers shake hands with Putin, everything is fine.

It's not everything fine since they are still nazi sympathizers. They are not only sympathizers anymore, they support him/them already. And Russia is getting isolated, provocated and getting brought to its knees. So the relation between the westerners and Putin has become very tense, it's even another Cold War right now in my opinion. It's at least veeery close to it.

Offline Anuran

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6927 on: October 02, 2014, 11:33:40 pm »
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Tomorrow will be a really special day here. Not just because of Germany's reunification. "Day of truth", march to the important NATO base in Kalkar and the march on the Reichstag. Announced events, I hope they will work out.

(click to show/hide)

I am really curious about it.

Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6928 on: October 03, 2014, 12:00:06 am »
-1
It's not everything fine since they are still nazi sympathizers. They are not only sympathizers anymore, they support him/them already. And Russia is getting isolated, provocated and getting brought to its knees. So the relation between the westerners and Putin has become very tense, it's even another Cold War right now in my opinion. It's at least veeery close to it.
Strange to see the rapist being named a victim, just because noone agrees/supports what he has done and thus isolates the perpetrator... poor russia, starts bullshit propaganda campaign, annexes parts of Ukraine, incites and supports civil war in another parts, most of the european neighbors of russia shun it and move away from it (even at great personal cost)... and its all THEIR fault. Not russia, never that... *THEM*

Offline Anuran

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6929 on: October 03, 2014, 12:05:55 pm »
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Strange to see the rapist being named a victim, just because noone agrees/supports what he has done and thus isolates the perpetrator... poor russia, starts bullshit propaganda campaign, annexes parts of Ukraine, incites and supports civil war in another parts, most of the european neighbors of russia shun it and move away from it (even at great personal cost)... and its all THEIR fault. Not russia, never that... *THEM*

Who called these rebels "subhumans who have to be defeated"? One hint: it was not Putin. But that man I mean is happy that you (in)directly support him...