Agincourt

[Ronin]

SAVE AGINCOURT!

NERF RANGED!

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Haha just joking. May I ask why this thread is stickied? I mean, what makes it special among other threads?

[Tzar]

because its basically a statement that the devs don't use realism in their way of balance and thank god for that.

[Oberyn]

Not really, the reason the thread is stickied is because as soon as realism and medieval warfare is brought up all the anglo's starts masturbating over Azincourt and Crécy, the only two battles they ever learned about because their primary education system is a circle-jerking propaganda fest.
The "longbow can shoot through plate armour at five hundred meters!!&111!!" is pretty much the western equivalent of "katana is best sword that can cut through anything!!&!!111". Both things got thouroughly romanticized in respectively the Victorian era and the Edo period.


The brits were in a defensive position, mud was no factor for them either way, and you must be a complete fucking moron if you think the british foot soldiers were armored only in cloth or leather. The french were exhausted by the time they reached the brit stakes because there was quite a long corridor of churned up mud to get through, under a hail of arrows.
There's ton of other "pointless" research into medieval warfare, this one is as valid as any, the only reason this one is publicized so much is because "medieval warfare is brought up all the anglo's starts masturbating over Azincourt and Crécy, the only two battles they ever learned about because their primary education system is a circle-jerking propaganda fest."

[Molly]

Not really, the reason the thread is stickied is because as soon as realism and medieval warfare is brought up all the anglo's starts masturbating over Azincourt and Crécy, the only two battles they ever learned about because their primary education system is a circle-jerking propaganda fest.
The "longbow can shoot through plate armour at five hundred meters!!&111!!" is pretty much the western equivalent of "katana is best sword that can cut through anything!!&!!111". Both things got thouroughly romanticized in respectively the Victorian era and the Edo period.

You're intelligence is sooo impressive. Can I lick it?

[Oberyn]

You're intelligence is sooo impressive. Can I lick it?

Your*, and no. Theres something else you can lick though...:3

[Casimir]

Speaking first hand as someone whos gone through the english education system studying history at every level i can say this is bullshit.

The lower education levels focus primarily on modern history and Tudors, Agincourt romanticism comes from weak arse popular history, not academic stuff.

[Overdriven]

Yup I never even learned about Agincourt or Crecy. I learnt about those in my own time from various popular history books/docs. My history classes from primary to secondary went through Romans, Hastings, Tudors, WW1, WW2 and civil rights movements. Oddly never went anywhere near Napoleonic era or anything between Hastings and Tudors.

[Korgoth]

Speaking first hand as someone whos gone through the english education system studying history at every level i can say this is bullshit.

The lower education levels focus primarily on modern history and Tudors, Agincourt romanticism comes from weak arse popular history, not academic stuff.

Exactly I never was taught about Agincourt or Crecy, didn't think I ever had a lesson on the Hundred Years War. History was my favourite subject, I remember the only year I did a Middle Age subject was in like year 4. After that there was quite a lot about the Tudors but mainly about boring old Henry VIII. I remember all the subjects I learnt in secondary school History. Year 8 was Native Americans (I have no fucking idea why). Year 9 was mainly WW2 and the causes of it. Year 10 and Year 11 was more WW2, Russia, Prohibition, Treaty of Versailles and all that shit.

Also the reason we probably don't learn about the Hundred Years War is because we lost in the end. Whats the French Education System like with WW2, I'm interested in how they teach it.

[Oberyn]

Exactly I never was taught about Agincourt or Crecy, didn't think I ever had a lesson on the Hundred Years War. History was my favourite subject, I remember the only year I did a Middle Age subject was in like year 4. After that there was quite a lot about the Tudors but mainly about boring old Henry VIII. I remember all the subjects I learnt in secondary school History. Year 8 was Native Americans (I have no fucking idea why). Year 9 was mainly WW2 and the causes of it. Year 10 and Year 11 was more WW2, Russia, Prohibition, Treaty of Versailles and all that shit.

Also the reason we probably don't learn about the Hundred Years War is because we lost in the end. Whats the French Education System like with WW2, I'm interested in how they teach it.

I actually wrote my dissertation on a WW2 subject for the history portion of the Baccalauréat. As far as what is taught, a lot of the historical focus obviously rests on events in or by Germany, Italy, Britain, USA, USSR, Japan and China, but a lot of time is devoted to the conditions that lead to the disaster of the Battle of France, from the political divisions in the 3rd Republic (specifically the rise of communist and fascist parties), the failure of the Maginot Line and the outdated military doctrine of old WW1 veteran generals (interestingly enough the Maginot Line was actually an unfinished project, the original plans drawn up right after WW1 called for a line of defenses stretching all the way to the Atlantic, but the Depression and political upheaval from the 30's onward made it an unpopular project for various governments, and it underwent many revisions before construction even began).

The Battle of France itself obviously also features prominently. Too much time, imo, was devoted to the Free French and DeGaulle, although understandably. The Vichy régime and the Résistance I remember spending some time on as well. My paper was about the mystification of the Résistance postwar when compared to it's impact during the actual war, and how it's ranks only started swelling when the 'Murcans landed in Normandy. The popularity of the Free French on metropolitan French soil followed similar patterns.Previous to that the ranks of the Résistance were largely composed of both extremes of the political spectrum, the same commies and fascists that destabilized the 3rd Republic so badly.

:edit for spelling

[Casimir]

Point stands your assumptions about the British education system are wrong.

[Oberyn]

Point stands your assumptions about the British education system are wrong.

Fine, make it American education system then, I have personally experienced it there. Also I really really doubt Shakespeare's  St Crispens Day speech never featured at all in your education, or the ridiculous worship of the longbow as the weapon that supposedly ended the "knight". There's a reason it is such an enmeshed part of anglo pop history, that shit doesn't just happen in a vacuum. I stand by my earlier comments in this thread, every single time medieval battles are brought up, you can bet that any anglos will bring up Azincourt and Crécy, often with the longbow can shoot plated knight at xxx yards! meme. It's the reason for the existence of the stickied thread after all.

[Overdriven]

Fine, make it American education system then, I have personally experienced it there. Also I really really doubt Shakespeare's  St Crispens Day speech never featured at all in your education, or the ridiculous worship of the longbow as the weapon that supposedly ended the "knight". There's a reason it is such an enmeshed part of anglo pop history, that shit doesn't just happen in a vacuum. I stand by my earlier comments in this thread, every single time medieval battles are brought up, you can bet that any anglos will bring up Azincourt and Crécy, often with the longbow can shoot plated knight at xxx yards! meme. It's the reason for the existence of the stickied thread after all.

Never even heard of St Crispens Day speech. Had to google it. Only Shakespeare I was taught was Midsummer Nights Dream and The Tempest. Both of which I can't stand. My history teachers were always female. Which meant I spent a lot of time on Henry VIII/feminism/civil rights and other wishy washy stuff. Then when it came to anything slightly related to war I knew more than they did I think the only violent stuff covered in Medieval period for me was the murder of Thomas Becket. So no, the longbow actually featured 0 in my education. Again that all came from popular fiction/non-fiction and documentaries which I read/watched in my own time. Most people I know actually know very little about the longbow. You simply aren't taught it. However, if you read Bernard Cornwell you will have an over-inflated sense of the importance of it.

But I agree that Crecy and Agincourt are brought up all the time. Just your reasoning for it is wrong. I think it's more to do with popular historians than the education system.

[Casimir]

The thing is the battles figured massively in the medieval Psych of the English monarchy after the period. Crecy and Potiers were used as evidence of Gods support of their claim on the French crown, Agincourt was used by propagation by the Lancastrian dynasty to justify their usurpation of the English crown. These battles supposedly prove that their reign was mandated by God, their victories were his will.

Of course you can't ignore them, they were significant battles, if not for military tactics or strategy but for cultural development.  They are significant pivots of the hundred years war, something which helped to define the cultures of England and France.

I'd agree there can be a over emphasis of their importance by some English academics, but that could be true of any battle in any country. The education system as a whole really doesnt put that much importance on them.

Also I really really doubt Shakespeare's  St Crispens Day speech never featured at all in your education, or the ridiculous worship of the longbow as the weapon that supposedly ended the "knight".

Nope, i also did the tempest and the merchant of Venice.  My entire education I was told that the 'rise of mass infantry' and the 'development of gunpowder weaponry' lead to the fall of the knight. 

Also 12th century warfare is way more interesting than this shit...

[Penitent]

Oh yeah, well my grandfather fought in Azingcourt and he was the general of all the archers.  He had the biggest longbow that was made out of of an entire You Tree and some ropes.  It was so big and powerful that he used a hundred spears as an arrow.  He was able to draw the bow with only one hand and when he shot the French peoples all of them died.  Then the arrow kept going around and around to kill someone else.  Then it went all the way to the french king's castle which was 100 miles away by horse and then it broke the castle and wend around and around to hit the french king.  It went through his plate armor and then killed him and then he died.

So I think I know something about this, OK?

[CrazyCracka420]

Fine, make it American education system then, I have personally experienced it there. Also I really really doubt Shakespeare's  St Crispens Day speech never featured at all in your education, or the ridiculous worship of the longbow as the weapon that supposedly ended the "knight". There's a reason it is such an enmeshed part of anglo pop history, that shit doesn't just happen in a vacuum. I stand by my earlier comments in this thread, every single time medieval battles are brought up, you can bet that any anglos will bring up Azincourt and Crécy, often with the longbow can shoot plated knight at xxx yards! meme. It's the reason for the existence of the stickied thread after all.

I come from Minnesota, one of the states with a better education system than most, and they never got into the history of European battles in the middle ages.  There may have been a slight touching on some of the western European wars and a glossing over of the rest of the conflicts in history around the world, but it's mainly in regards to American history when it comes to wars and battles. 

The only time I was exposed to European wars was in a junior high class called "Music and Related Arts" which had a lot about music and arts, but also a very large part of it was in regards to wars and battles.  We had to take a "musical" class in junior high, and instead of choir or band I choose this (very good choice I might add). 

here's a brief description I found
-
This course is for those students not wishing to participate in a performance
group. This course presents an overview of the importance music has
played in the development of our world. It presents a synthesis of history,
art, architecture, drama, literature, poetry, technology, with a focus on
music. The ultimate goal of the course is to help the student become a dis-
criminating listener to music of all eras and realize the important relation-
ship of music and the arts to life in contemporary society.