cRPG

Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Wesleysnipes on May 16, 2014, 06:37:13 pm

Title: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Wesleysnipes on May 16, 2014, 06:37:13 pm
What's going on my fellow North Americans. KBW you own a lot of the map too, get your ass in gear and make strat fun. Occitan, start something too. Dracul fight Ganner. WFA oh wait, you are vassels of Acre! So yeah. Everyone has more then enough gold to have a little bit of a war. Let's make it happen shall we?
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on May 16, 2014, 11:49:53 pm
you're not making any sense, how are we supposed to afk on strat if we do things on the map?

confused
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: PsychoTwins on May 16, 2014, 11:55:03 pm
you're not making any sense, how are we supposed to afk on strat if we do things on the map?

confused

We are all also such small community of good friends, no one wants to attack eachother  :wink:
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: StonedSteel on May 16, 2014, 11:57:33 pm
sigh , poor Wesley, looking for war in a high school mentality popularity contest.

how dare you ask these crpg pussies to grow balls, courage is not required in a trading simulator!

( shots fired, wes is right, get to fucking work NA! )
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Carthan on May 17, 2014, 12:54:21 am
We're American.
Starting wars because of petty differences is what we do best.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on May 17, 2014, 02:55:01 am
We're American.
Starting wars because of petty differences financial interests and resources is what we do best.

i fixed it for you, don't worry
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 17, 2014, 03:38:05 am
It's pace will pick up. People are converting that precious silver into pointy sticks and the wars shall rage on.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: MURDERTRON on May 17, 2014, 03:55:53 am
GFORCE Mafia is still fighting the war on crime.  And losing.  Thanks halfcast, we will erect a statue in your honor.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: HappyPhantom on May 17, 2014, 05:36:25 am
Crime doesn't really hurt if you have no armies in fiefs though does it? It doesn't seem to kill off population?
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: PsychoTwins on May 17, 2014, 05:53:41 am
Crime doesn't really hurt if you have no armies in fiefs though does it? It doesn't seem to kill off population?
No, but with armies outside fief, the upkeep is a bitch.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: HappyPhantom on May 17, 2014, 12:39:38 pm
Army upkeep in fief is cheaper? Well well, the things I learn.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: PsychoTwins on May 17, 2014, 09:50:26 pm
Army upkeep in fief is cheaper? Well well, the things I learn.

It is extremely cheaper. Here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AndZsiPEJtczdFRuQjBQbHJUZ2twV1RjTHB6YmRhc1E#gid=5

Also, if you convert troops to population, you dont have to pay upkeep for those and you get a perm garrison there
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Jack1 on May 17, 2014, 10:09:24 pm
I just had a war between myself and a mayonnaise jar's lid.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: HardRice on May 17, 2014, 11:11:25 pm
There'll be war

Lot's of juicy war
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Wesleysnipes on May 18, 2014, 10:29:04 am
It's a bad idea to convert troops into population. The population goes up for free (too the limit). It's better to keep your troops on hand! = more troops to mobilize on thy field of battle. ;)
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: PsychoTwins on May 18, 2014, 10:44:16 am
It's a bad idea to convert troops into population. The population goes up for free (too the limit). It's better to keep your troops on hand! = more troops to mobilize on thy field of battle. ;)

true, but if you know you want to keep that castle/fief, instead of holding 1000 troops in there all the time you can just convert those to pop too, and no more upkeep
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Wesleysnipes on May 18, 2014, 07:11:18 pm
true, but if you know you want to keep that castle/fief, instead of holding 1000 troops in there all the time you can just convert those to pop too, and no more upkeep

Correct, but 1000 hours worth of troops can be funded by a 1-2 day trade run easily.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: AreTreble on May 18, 2014, 07:12:59 pm
There really needs to be a system in Strategus that rewards factions who participate in sieges/battles/raids. Wasn't the whole 'renown' thing supposed to do this?
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Turkhammer on May 18, 2014, 07:21:28 pm
There really needs to be a system in Strategus that rewards factions who participate in sieges/battles/raids. Wasn't the whole 'renown' thing supposed to do this?

Wrong.  The reward for going to war is capturing territory and resources.  Strat is probably a pretty good historical model.  Going to war should be a strategic decision, the less artificial tinkering the better.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 19, 2014, 06:08:46 am
I would like to see more strategic layering though. A bit more complexity.

The trade management isn't too bad for a simple system it has quiet a lot of depth.

They just need to fix up the troop recruitment system and perhaps introduce a renown system that caps army sizes so that people need to gain renown to be able to assault and capture castles/towns.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Bryggan on May 19, 2014, 05:21:58 pm
The problem here is that everyone knows each other.  We all go on each other's teamspeaks, get to know one another as individuals, and decide who are friends and enemies are by personality.

It would be nice if everyone made their decisions by the Strat map; attacking fiefs because of strategic or economic value, not because the owner shitposted them or TKed them twice in C-Rpg, and allied themselves with people not because they're cool, or they're dating their sister*, but because it will give you a temporary advantage which you might use against them later.

So I suggest everyone should be forced to change their game names so no one will know who's who (and revealing your identity would result in $200** fine and perma ban), people may only go on their clan's TS and no one else's, and all diplomacy must be done through letters written in a proper RP style (each one to be submitted to the fine people who got rid of the 'Hello Kitty' banner for approval before being sent).

Plus any clan that does not play in a proper Machiavellian style will be fined $100 per member.

This would lead to proper game play and perhaps a little less bitching.

*Yeah, I know.  True Strat players don't date.
** Canadian dollars.  Sent to me.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Thryn on May 19, 2014, 06:04:22 pm
People are taking this too seriously. There's a web browser game called AtWar that I play with friends, and it can be really satisfying. Sure I may backstab my friend or carry him through, but in the end it's a game and we can pick it back up and play again some other time. Strat should be the same for people. We duke it out for lols & what not, and the reward is xp (which leads you to ugibmelooms). Not to mention that if you get knocked out of a round, you can try to start back up again.

Now, go fucking fight some spergs you afking bitches. I want XP.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Jaren on May 31, 2014, 12:51:37 pm
I've gotta revisit this... Things have been fairly lopsided in terms of larger factions failing or lacking reason for a show of force... And unfortunately, I've taken the side in buddying up to sort out the middle grounds.
Things-, Factional relationships, pacts... Some sheer straight up chumming about has brought me back to the dull roar of previous strats.
Something that could and should be cantankerous and haphazard; things that demand the focus of your team just to ensure or grasp at victory has been blown off as too risky and has turned into a long and enduring resource mission, or at least in my case, being a cog to support the machine.
However, the uncertainty of that chaos
(click to show/hide)
is what could make strat more enjoyable for all, or in the least bit bound for kinetic and reactionary play by these factions.

Squids, I gotta give it to you for at least throwing some troops out, and Acre, you guys keep being Acre and fight your good fight!
(click to show/hide)
But, I almost feel a sense of shame behind the lack of aggressiveness KbW, Occitan, and other larger factions have shown to... Anyone.

I get it, I get it... Economics... Secure lands... PREPARE!!!

But this lacking in tenacity and reverence for others who deserve none on the field of Strat is making my balls hurt... I keep seeing all these fine ass digital floozies skimping their frocks for other lads.
I want those floozies!
I want WAR!!

I NEED BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!
(click to show/hide)
So NA... More so large factions; LEAD, DEMAND, ENFORCE! And lets have some fun!
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: BaleOhay on May 31, 2014, 03:39:21 pm
so you are saying you miss the fcc?
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 31, 2014, 04:07:02 pm
His saying he misses the FCC.
Title: I am so absolutely outraged every time I consider this.
Post by: Malaclypse on May 31, 2014, 08:48:06 pm
there has been a war against civil liberties in regards to altered states of consciousness going on in the USA for going on 50 years, join the fight.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Balikar on June 03, 2014, 01:18:49 am
What's going on my fellow North Americans. KBW you own a lot of the map too, get your ass in gear and make strat fun. Occitan, start something too. Dracul fight Ganner. WFA oh wait, you are vassels of Acre! So yeah. Everyone has more then enough gold to have a little bit of a war. Let's make it happen shall we?

Or just become his vassal... 
Title: Re: I am so absolutely outraged every time I consider this.
Post by: Keshian on June 03, 2014, 06:54:05 pm
there has been a war against civil liberties in regards to altered states of consciousness going on in the USA for going on 50 years, join the fight.

Totally has nothing to do with, I don't know drugs being highly destructive (often lethal) addictive substances.  Meth, Heroin, and Cocaine are definitely illegal because "there is a war against civil liberties in regards to altered states of consciousness".  Just go fast or smoke pot (legal in a lot of places now or not police enforced) or better yet meditate (instead of looking for quick destructive fix to get to same state) if thats what you want.
Title: not really sorry
Post by: Malaclypse on June 03, 2014, 11:38:52 pm
Totally has nothing to do with, I don't know drugs being highly destructive (often lethal) addictive substances.  Meth, Heroin, and Cocaine are definitely illegal because "there is a war against civil liberties in regards to altered states of consciousness".  Just go fast or smoke pot (legal in a lot of places now or not police enforced) or better yet meditate (instead of looking for quick destructive fix to get to same state) if thats what you want.

You're right, it has nothing to do with Strategus, but it's still a war taking place in North America, haha. If meth, heroin, and cocaine were outlawed due purely to harm reduction (considering the study published in 2010 in The Lancet, Drug harms in the UK: a multicriteria decision analysis, for one), then alcohol and tobacco would be illegal too. Clearly that's not the case. If we're considering potential harm to self and others, the top five substances, almost always in this order, are: alcohol, heroin, crack form of cocaine, methamphetamine, cocaine (then tobacco). Heroin/meth/crack/coke are more likely to cause harm to the user than alcohol, but alcohol is pretty close and is much more likely to cause harm to others due to the use of it. Even considering that the aforementioned study is affected by the case of alcohol and tobaccos legality, one must admit that it is likely more of a danger or at least an equal danger to cannabis, and some schedule I substances are safer than either.

Still, even making the more heinous of substances illegal causes more harm than good by way of making criminals out of citizens rather than educating them and allowing them to make their own informed choices as we have done with alcohol and tobacco. A lack of regulation by making substances criminal also paves the way for untaxed money to be made by distributors who may adulterate their products, causing further chances for harm to users, who are going to use whether or not said substances are illegal- legality doesn't effect the percentage of users in a population in a major way in the long run, from what we've seen in countries and areas that have decrminalized substances previously illegal. For the record, I've never done meth, heroin, cocaine, and I never would due to their addictive qualities and potential detriments to health- this is also why I typically refrain from alcohol. I can and do agree that these substances, at least, have a high chance for destruction and harm.

In terms of potential harm to self and other, some of the highest scheduled drugs in America, the psychedelic substances such as psilocybin (found in many species of mushrooms) and LSD are ironically some of the safest for consumption- low chance for physical damage, low chance for overdose, low chance for lasting negative effects, extremely low chance for addiction, do some research and see for yourself. They were outlawed under the Nixon administration due to "cultural hysteria" and propaganda against them. Moreover, this was intimately tied to social activism- many activists were using these substances, and could not be imprisoned for their activism. Maybe I'm just cynical. It's a joke that they're Schedule I (No benefits; no medical applications- there was not enough information to claim this at the time of their scheduling, but can now be said to be an outright lie as around the world more and more applications and potential applications are being discovered and explored).

What's more, unlike alcohol prohibition, no amendment was made to the constitution in their case. Pretty ridiculous, man, you've got to admit, that a person can go to prison for a longer sentence than a murderer or rapist for possessing an amount of mushrooms not even suitable for a psychedelic experience. You can get five years in prison for having a gram (there are some places, thankfully, where they'll just fine you and confiscate it- this also depends on the officer, of course), which, on average, will only have the effect of improving visual acuity. That is utterly fucked up. Whether or not you would ever deign to use these substances, you have to admit that there is a level of absurdity in the system we have arranged here. Imagine if you could be sent to prison for years for the possession of a thimble full of ginger (in relation to sub-psychedelic amounts of substances this is an easy comparison).

Some people prefer meditation to reach visionary states, and for some, with practice, they achieve it- others prefer to ingest a fungus readily metabolized by our bodies to reach visionary states, and, with forty minutes of waiting, they achieve it. Moreover, the practice of meditation is, in my own experience (the last of which was over five years ago, now) as well as the experience of others who have actually experimented with these substances in a respectful manner, only enhanced by the introduction of compounds such as mescaline, psilocybin, LSD and salvinorin a. If I, as an informed adult citizen of the United States of America, do not have the right to alter my consciousness as I see fit- knowing well the risks and benefits, as anyone who consumes alcohol or, hell, drives a vehicle does- then the game isn't worth the candle, and it opens the door for a further violations of our collective civil liberties.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I am extremely passionate about this, and feel that a large portion of the population is either uninformed or misinformed when it comes to mind altering substances. At the very least we need to seriously consider decriminalization, because the only people who truly benefit from illegal substances by virtue of their being illegal (important to note) are prison operators, law enforcement (in terms of federal funding- Minnesota police fought tooth and nail to keep medical marijuana illegal here in plant form just recently), and dealers/crime syndicates/cartels.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: BaleOhay on June 04, 2014, 12:33:44 am
you must be on drugs for that much typing
Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: Lt_Anders on June 04, 2014, 01:08:58 am

How else are the PRIVATE prisons in the US supposed to make money if they can't lock up the "rich people who have drugs" for long periods of time to mooch off of them?

Come on, THINK OF THE PRISON GUARDS! They won't have jobs if we decriminalize drugs. We NEED a Prison-Industrial Society.
Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on June 04, 2014, 02:03:11 am
(click to show/hide)

tl;dr: If you're not free to ingest any substance that you please, regardless of the consequences to yourself, the law preventing it is unjust. People desperate enough to improve how they feel to regularly ingest strong opiates like heroin or repeatedly abuse stimulants like methamphetamine will not be deterred by laws. A law put in place "for one's own good" is nearly always unjust.

(Only law of that nature that I agree with are seatbelt/helmet laws on public roads. The roads are owned and paid for [through taxes of course] by the local/state/federal government. They have authority to enforce reasonable demands considering that you are willfully using their infastructure, as well as the fact that the local/state/federal government will be expending extra man-hours and money to scrape your ass off the pavement if you're flung half a football field from your vehicle through the windshield)
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Malaclypse on June 04, 2014, 02:44:23 am
you must be on drugs for that much typing

At the time, no haha.... soon, maybe- but come on, five paragraphs speaking about something that matters to you?  That's nothin' man, twenty minutes of my time that I didn't spend jackin' it, zoning out, playing video games, ya goofball bale. I think about it all the time, speak about it with anyone even remotely interested, and am working on how to word letters (in before party bus at my house) to my representatives, considering methods of finding like-minded individuals near me and organizing. I'm passionate about the issue both as someone whose life has been enriched by my experiences with psychedelics despite the distance of those experiences from this present moment and as someone who is concerned for civil liberties in the country in which I am a citizen =)
Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: Keshian on June 04, 2014, 04:35:00 am
You're right, it has nothing to do with Strategus, but it's still a war taking place in North America, haha. If meth, heroin, and cocaine were outlawed due purely to harm reduction (considering the study published in 2010 in The Lancet, Drug harms in the UK: a multicriteria decision analysis, for one), then alcohol and tobacco would be illegal too. Clearly that's not the case. If we're considering potential harm to self and others, the top five substances, almost always in this order, are: alcohol, heroin, crack form of cocaine, methamphetamine, cocaine (then tobacco). Heroin/meth/crack/coke are more likely to cause harm to the user than alcohol, but alcohol is pretty close and is much more likely to cause harm to others due to the use of it. Even considering that the aforementioned study is affected by the case of alcohol and tobaccos legality, one must admit that it is likely more of a danger or at least an equal danger to cannabis, and some schedule I substances are safer than either.

Still, even making the more heinous of substances illegal causes more harm than good by way of making criminals out of citizens rather than educating them and allowing them to make their own informed choices as we have done with alcohol and tobacco. A lack of regulation by making substances criminal also paves the way for untaxed money to be made by distributors who may adulterate their products, causing further chances for harm to users, who are going to use whether or not said substances are illegal- legality doesn't effect the percentage of users in a population in a major way in the long run, from what we've seen in countries and areas that have decrminalized substances previously illegal. For the record, I've never done meth, heroin, cocaine, and I never would due to their addictive qualities and potential detriments to health- this is also why I typically refrain from alcohol. I can and do agree that these substances, at least, have a high chance for destruction and harm.

In terms of potential harm to self and other, some of the highest scheduled drugs in America, the psychedelic substances such as psilocybin (found in many species of mushrooms) and LSD are ironically some of the safest for consumption- low chance for physical damage, low chance for overdose, low chance for lasting negative effects, extremely low chance for addiction, do some research and see for yourself. They were outlawed under the Nixon administration due to "cultural hysteria" and propaganda against them. Moreover, this was intimately tied to social activism- many activists were using these substances, and could not be imprisoned for their activism. Maybe I'm just cynical. It's a joke that they're Schedule I (No benefits; no medical applications- there was not enough information to claim this at the time of their scheduling, but can now be said to be an outright lie as around the world more and more applications and potential applications are being discovered and explored).

What's more, unlike alcohol prohibition, no amendment was made to the constitution in their case. Pretty ridiculous, man, you've got to admit, that a person can go to prison for a longer sentence than a murderer or rapist for possessing an amount of mushrooms not even suitable for a psychedelic experience. You can get five years in prison for having a gram (there are some places, thankfully, where they'll just fine you and confiscate it- this also depends on the officer, of course), which, on average, will only have the effect of improving visual acuity. That is utterly fucked up. Whether or not you would ever deign to use these substances, you have to admit that there is a level of absurdity in the system we have arranged here. Imagine if you could be sent to prison for years for the possession of a thimble full of ginger (in relation to sub-psychedelic amounts of substances this is an easy comparison).

Some people prefer meditation to reach visionary states, and for some, with practice, they achieve it- others prefer to ingest a fungus readily metabolized by our bodies to reach visionary states, and, with forty minutes of waiting, they achieve it. Moreover, the practice of meditation is, in my own experience (the last of which was over five years ago, now) as well as the experience of others who have actually experimented with these substances in a respectful manner, only enhanced by the introduction of compounds such as mescaline, psilocybin, LSD and salvinorin a. If I, as an informed adult citizen of the United States of America, do not have the right to alter my consciousness as I see fit- knowing well the risks and benefits, as anyone who consumes alcohol or, hell, drives a vehicle does- then the game isn't worth the candle, and it opens the door for a further violations of our collective civil liberties.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I am extremely passionate about this, and feel that a large portion of the population is either uninformed or misinformed when it comes to mind altering substances. At the very least we need to seriously consider decriminalization, because the only people who truly benefit from illegal substances by virtue of their being illegal (important to note) are prison operators, law enforcement (in terms of federal funding- Minnesota police fought tooth and nail to keep medical marijuana illegal here in plant form just recently), and dealers/crime syndicates/cartels.

Sorry, started trying to read, but it really did become tl:dr and start was very very dry with a heavy bias.  Sorry.
Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on June 04, 2014, 07:20:33 am
Sorry, started trying to read, but it really did become tl:dr and start was very very dry with a heavy bias.  Sorry.

words are hard please help

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: Rhalzo on June 04, 2014, 11:08:54 pm
Sorry, started trying to read, but it really did become tl:dr and start was very very dry with a heavy bias. Sorry.

He took time to write all of that; if you aren't going to put time into reading it and replying in a similar fashion then just don't even reply. There is really no point. It doesn't matter if you don't agree with him. People don't agree with most stuff you post on these forums but they (some people) still give your posts the time it takes to read them. Even if your posts have an even heavier bias than Mala's post.

Plus, how hard is it actually read 6 paragraphs? It's like a page in a book.
Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: Keshian on June 05, 2014, 03:17:02 am
He took time to write all of that; if you aren't going to put time into reading it and replying in a similar fashion then just don't even reply. There is really no point. It doesn't matter if you don't agree with him. People don't agree with most stuff you post on these forums but they (some people) still give your posts the time it takes to read them. Even if your posts have an even heavier bias than Mala's post.

Plus, how hard is it actually read 6 paragraphs? It's like a page in a book.

Sorry, I don't enjoy random, hundreds of words long OP ED political pieces with a biased slant in a video game forum.  Its same reason I ignore popular news on tv or pundits.  I don't know why they feel its necessary to try and get people to think like them when it comes to politics or religion, as if it somehow validates their opinion and self-identity if they can brainwash others to think like them, but I have no taste for being a part of it.

Several hundred words from his perspective on a giant topic like drugs is destined to be biased simply by its very short nature of what gets included.  I know if the roles were reversed you would still back him, so I don't really put much weight on your opinion in the matter.
Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on June 05, 2014, 03:34:38 am
Sorry, I don't enjoy random, hundreds of words long OP ED political pieces with a biased slant in a video game forum.  Its same reason I ignore popular news on tv or pundits.  I don't know why they feel its necessary to try and get people to think like them when it comes to politics or religion, as if it somehow validates their opinion and self-identity if they can brainwash others to think like them, but I have no taste for being a part of it.

Several hundred words from his perspective on a giant topic like drugs is destined to be biased simply by its very short nature of what gets included.  I know if the roles were reversed you would still back him, so I don't really put much weight on your opinion in the matter.

lol

Hundred of words? HUNDREDS? Holy fucking shit, he wrote more than two sentences on something so he's clearly very biased!

Why would you even reply, then? Good lord, you're an insufferable piece of shit on the internet. Still, I applaud you for making your first post in months that didn't include at least several spelling, syntax, or seemingly dyslexic-inspired errors that make it seem like you're pounding away at your keyboard like an infuriated chimp. I really didn't think you had it in you, m8.
Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: Rhalzo on June 05, 2014, 04:04:16 am
Sorry, I don't enjoy random, hundreds of words long OP ED political pieces with a biased slant in a video game forum.  Its same reason I ignore popular news on tv or pundits.  I don't know why they feel its necessary to try and get people to think like them when it comes to politics or religion, as if it somehow validates their opinion and self-identity if they can brainwash others to think like them, but I have no taste for being a part of it.

Several hundred words from his perspective on a giant topic like drugs is destined to be biased simply by its very short nature of what gets included.  I know if the roles were reversed you would still back him, so I don't really put much weight on your opinion in the matter.

I never said his piece of writing wasn't biased. I said most of your posts in the past have been more heavily biased than Mala's post. If you really read his words, you'd see that he isn't trying to "brainwash others," but is instead addressing a subject that was previously mentioned. It's a subject he is very passionate about, which leads to there be a lot of words that you didn't even take the time to read. At least that's what you said.

If the roles were reversed and you wrote a bunch of words on something you are passionate about then I would applaud you and give you an almighty +1. In that situation, Mala wouldn't reply with one sentence about not reading it because he would have read the shit out of that and given you at least a paragraph response. Then I wouldn't really be backing a single person as you would both get a +1 for doing a great job.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Legs on June 05, 2014, 04:21:16 am
I actually wrote a proper essay on drugs when I was in college, researched all kinds of statistics and whatnot. One of my conclusions was that illegal drugs are less less harmful and less addictive on average than many legal drugs like alcohol, tobacco, and prescription painkillers. Hallucinogens in particular. They're not very harmful physically and apparently tolerance builds up so quickly that regular use isn't practical. There's some risk of inducing mental illness in certain people but generally they're very safe, and can actually have positive, therapeutic effects. Even the classic "drugs are bad" drug heroin is nowhere near as dangerous as most people think. I know a few people that use heroin and other recreational drugs. They're normal everyday people with jobs and responsibilities and shit, weekend warriors who just like to get high once in a while. Most hard drug users are the same. Junkies are a minority. I don't use heroin because I don't like opiates. When I was younger I injured one of my knees longjumping (TRACK & FIELD TEAM CAPTAIN 2008-2009) and had to get surgery. While recovering I was prescribed some strong painkillers and ended up becoming addicted, because oh shit it's kind of like using heroin twice a day. That's what causes the danger of addiction - frequent, regular use. It's the same for heroin. If you use it responsibly it's actually pretty safe. Honestly the whole war on drugs and dissemination of propaganda is motivated more by financial gain than protecting the public. Police justifying inflated budgets, targets for HARD ON CRIME! politicians, and schmucks to fill up private for-profit prisons. Like Malaclypse mentioned it was also a good excuse for police that wanted to arrest protesters back in the day. Of course that's not to say that it doesn't also protect the public to some extent, because there are a lot of irresponsible people out there that need Big Brother to make their choices for them. Regardless, like most things in politics when it comes to drugs everyone's full of strongly held opinions that they absolutely refuse to give up no matter what so discussion is usually totally fucking pointless.

Anyway tl;dr drugs are kind of bad sometimes but not really, also holy shit this thread is so far off topic I'm surprised that you're not being muted en-masse.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: imisshotmail on June 05, 2014, 04:29:27 am
every one in this last page: Stop Posting
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Bryggan on June 05, 2014, 04:48:48 am
Um, having ignored all the off topic crap that should only be discussed over beers in a pub with your friends when suitably drunk, I am wondering about the unwarlike factions.  Seeing unarmed armies carrying 5000 crates makes me wonder how much silver these guys have.

I wish renown actually got you something, like higher troop caps such as is in the single player.  Then all these hoarders of silver would have shiny armies of 200 or so, while us real men would have 2000 or so armed troops.  Also their caravans would either have to carry a lot less goods or move very, very slowly- which would be wonderful for independent raiders.

But I have a feeling that the devs won't take time out of their current project to help poor old strat.
Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: Keshian on June 05, 2014, 07:20:20 am
lol

Hundred of words? HUNDREDS? Holy fucking shit, he wrote more than two sentences on something so he's clearly very biased!

Why would you even reply, then? Good lord, you're an insufferable piece of shit on the internet. Still, I applaud you for making your first post in months that didn't include at least several spelling, syntax, or seemingly dyslexic-inspired errors that make it seem like you're pounding away at your keyboard like an infuriated chimp. I really didn't think you had it in you, m8.

lol UMADBRO

Seriously, you sound like you are frothing at the mouth.  Not really that big a deal, you should calm down or you'll get another ulcer.



And Rhalzo - no, no, you really wouldn't if I wrote something like that.

Legs - the last girl I dated her first boyfriend died of a heroin overdose.  I know others who have utterly destroyed their lives in their addiction to it.  People who literally snorted their entire life savings with cocaine because they just can't stop using. 

Hearing some spoiled college-educated kid (malaclypse, not you legs) recite statistics for why drugs are good and should be legal, is a lot like hearing some teetotaler get in front of an AA meeting and tell them how bad alcohol is for them and how easy it is not to drink.  So yeah biased.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on June 05, 2014, 07:49:01 am
fucking plebs
Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: imisshotmail on June 05, 2014, 09:51:21 am
lol UMADBRO
Legs - the last girl I dated her first boyfriend died of a heroin overdose.  I know others who have utterly destroyed their lives in their addiction to it.  People who literally snorted their entire life savings with cocaine because they just can't stop using. 

Hearing some spoiled college-educated kid (malaclypse, not you legs) recite statistics for why drugs are good and should be legal, is a lot like hearing some teetotaler get in front of an AA meeting and tell them how bad alcohol is for them and how easy it is not to drink.  So yeah biased.

this is a really good and right post lol.

actually amazed someone in cRPG has a non awful opinion on something for once.
Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: PsychoTwins on June 05, 2014, 10:50:52 am
this is a really good and right post lol.

actually amazed someone in cRPG has a non awful opinion on something for once.

Yeah i gotta agree with these two. One of my closer friends wanted to be in the marines since he was a little kid and right near the end of highschool he got into coke, and now his life is in the gutter. Making all drugs legal is a terrible idea. That would be like making suicide accepted by society if you feel like doing it(maybe too drastic of an example). You are only killing yourself with majority of the Schedule 1 drugs, except marijuana of course(that being said, dont be a dumbass about it)

I understand where you might be coming from with a statement like "they want to be that way." or "they chose that life." but I have to completely disagree. Sure sometimes it may be like that, but most of the time the people get onto hardcore drugs like that from peer pressure or bad influences, not because they googled "How to fuck up my life". They get roped in and addicted, and addiction is not something that is easy to get through. Look at the projects as a clear cut example. Their lives suck, and a high is all they got, but they are killing themselves instead of trying to get out of the projects and do something. You cant say that majority of people that do drugs like coke and heroin are responsible about it if you havent looked at the rate of drug users that are homeless.
Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: Balikar on June 05, 2014, 02:54:12 pm

[/quote]
I understand where you might be coming from with a statement like "they want to be that way." or "they chose that life." but I have to completely disagree. Sure sometimes it may be like that, but most of the time the people get onto hardcore drugs like that from peer pressure or bad influences, not because they googled "How to fuck up my life". They get roped in and addicted, and addiction is not something that is easy to get through. Look at the projects as a clear cut example. Their lives suck, and a high is all they got, but they are killing themselves instead of trying to get out of the projects and do something. You cant say that majority of people that do drugs like coke and heroin are responsible about it if you havent looked at the rate of drug users that are homeless.
[/quote]

And in recent news, minimum wage went up to $15 in Seattle... 

'Let's not get people out of the projects... let's get the projects to the people!' 
Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: Lt_Anders on June 05, 2014, 03:27:13 pm
And in recent news, minimum wage went up to $15 in Seattle... 

'Let's not get people out of the projects... let's get the projects to the people!'

You so BAD at using forums. Triple posting eslewhere. Holy balls, are you like a 12yo add kid with downsyndrome!

Ahem. Minimum Wage is a bad thing in MOST cases. It's only good because it tends to increase worker pay, but(!!!) it will make the price of EVERYTHING increase proportionally to bad amounts.

Or as Balikar stated: Lets get the projects to the people.

Course I doubt most people on this forum would even remotely care about economics. Gotta had daddy take care of them for them by giving them everything on tax dollars and not having to think about anything. Honestly, most people get arrested for possession of the tame drugs that are under battle to be legalized atm. Why does a person who steals get less time than a guy who possessed marijuana? Justice system is as corrupt as everything else. This is the sad thing about Bureaucracy: Corruption.
Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: Thryn on June 05, 2014, 03:38:46 pm
You so BAD at using forums. Triple posting eslewhere. Holy balls, are you like a 12yo add kid with downsyndrome!

Anders, most popular forum poster

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Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: Balikar on June 05, 2014, 03:42:55 pm
You so BAD at using forums. Triple posting eslewhere. Holy balls, are you like a 12yo add kid with downsyndrome!

Ahem. Minimum Wage is a bad thing in MOST cases. It's only good because it tends to increase worker pay, but(!!!) it will make the price of EVERYTHING increase proportionally to bad amounts.

Or as Balikar stated: Lets get the projects to the people.

Course I doubt most people on this forum would even remotely care about economics. Gotta had daddy take care of them for them by giving them everything on tax dollars and not having to think about anything. Honestly, most people get arrested for possession of the tame drugs that are under battle to be legalized atm. Why does a person who steals get less time than a guy who possessed marijuana? Justice system is as corrupt as everything else. This is the sad thing about Bureaucracy: Corruption.

Maybe.  Ooo bright shiny object!
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Khako on June 05, 2014, 11:57:07 pm
Dear Leader does not approve of such off topic discussion in strat. Dear leader wants more battles in NA. Dear leader commands you all to initiate battles and hire himself as a glorious mercenary.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Bronto on June 06, 2014, 01:17:25 am
FACT you're all stupid and global warming has caused more snow cones to melt this season so far. More than any previous summer.
Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: imisshotmail on June 06, 2014, 04:05:41 am
You so BAD at using forums. Triple posting eslewhere. Holy balls, are you like a 12yo add kid with downsyndrome!

Ahem. Minimum Wage is a bad thing in MOST cases. It's only good because it tends to increase worker pay, but(!!!) it will make the price of EVERYTHING increase proportionally to bad amounts.

Or as Balikar stated: Lets get the projects to the people.

Course I doubt most people on this forum would even remotely care about economics. Gotta had daddy take care of them for them by giving them everything on tax dollars and not having to think about anything. Honestly, most people get arrested for possession of the tame drugs that are under battle to be legalized atm. Why does a person who steals get less time than a guy who possessed marijuana? Justice system is as corrupt as everything else. This is the sad thing about Bureaucracy: Corruption.

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Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: imisshotmail on June 06, 2014, 04:07:25 am
anders a libertarian.. who would have thought?? next time maybe try pointing the gun at your head it's a picture i think every one on crpg would like much more
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on June 06, 2014, 05:00:24 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


brought to you by the Association for Better Shitposting
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Canary on June 06, 2014, 07:14:29 am
Ya'll nerds is ghey.

Only nerds still fightin' are the ones not sick of hatin' on other nerds and even they want to hold on to their strat stuff for grim death because boldness can't grow here. The standstill rages on.

Maybe paranoid or ineffectual nerds, like Aro and Aldo respectively, might do something eventually, but at this point whose hopes are even high enough to care? All I'm saying is that if you fighting sized guys don't get your shit together and make a good solid fool move you're gonna ruin it even more for everyone else, the littler guys, and yourselves when you actually roll out the door. Maybe nobody can pull this community out of its downward spiral, but you don't have to run the throttle at full, jeezy petes. You're my friends, but I don't like what you've been doing with yourselves.

How many neutral fiefs are left?
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Bronto on June 06, 2014, 02:21:30 pm
imisshotmail, was it really necessary to bring up a personal photo of Anders. I feel bad for you that you had to resort to that to "troll" or get your jollies on the interwebs.

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Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: MURDERTRON on June 06, 2014, 03:31:12 pm
Anders, get out.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Tojo on June 07, 2014, 04:25:46 am
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Give Em red lightsaber.

As for war this is enough NA dick mashing to start a war over. Let's see some Xp
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: PsychoTwins on June 07, 2014, 01:00:33 pm
imisshotmail, was it really necessary to bring up a personal photo of Anders. I feel bad for you that you had to resort to that to "troll" or get your jollies on the interwebs.

On the topic of personal photos, I found one of you Bronto...
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(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: Malaclypse on June 07, 2014, 08:56:39 pm
Hearing some spoiled college-educated kid (malaclypse, not you legs) recite statistics for why drugs are good and should be legal, is a lot like hearing some teetotaler get in front of an AA meeting and tell them how bad alcohol is for them and how easy it is not to drink.  So yeah biased.

Gee, I didn't know I went to college! I'm pretty sure I graduated high school with a 1.8 GPA dude, and I'm pretty sure I'm a part of the working class who happens to have a library card where he can obtain these mystical objects called books, you know, with words forming cogent thoughts inside 'em, the ability to be cross referenced with one another to determine the veracity of information presented, etc. However, none of this really matters because you can't just attack the person and expect that to be the same thing as attacking their argument- that's called an ad hominem attack, and you don't have to go to college to understand that.

Anyhow, I never claimed that I was without bias, what I would like to know is how my bias relates to the growing number of scientists (people who understand the way substances interact with our brains, minds, bodies- risks and benefits) , law enforcement officers (people who understand how prohibition hurts individuals, families), and policy makers (people who can enact social reform) who want to end prohibition.

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I don't know why they feel its necessary to try and get people to think like them when it comes to politics or religion, as if it somehow validates their opinion and self-identity if they can brainwash others to think like them, but I have no taste for being a part of it.

I don't need you to validate my opinion, nor do I expect you to change your mind on anything, ever, lol. You're my equal and can believe whatever you want- I'm not trying to get you to use mind altering substances, I'm trying to get you and others to reconsider their position as to their legality, to give ME the freedom to do so (because my freedom to fuck who I want, use what substances I want, these never ought to have been anyone's fucking business but my own), because people's lives are at stake. I wouldn't have to try to convince people if other people hadn't change the rules fifty years ago because they wanted to start a War on Some Drugs to make a profit.

The people in this country who use aren't being informed properly and are suffering draconian punishments (thankfully this is starting to change) when caught in some jurisdictions, the people who have to live under oppressive drug regimes in other countries due to prohibition on them started by the USA and adopted worldwide by force or coercion, the people who might be helped to recover by psychedelics, their lives have value and meaning and prohibition hurts them far more than it helps (heroin use is damaging, but you know what else is damaging? being in the prison system with violent offenders for non-violent crimes, for one). It's necessary to try to get others to consider these things because we are weak when we are divided. We can only make social reforms together. Nobody was pushing for the rights of people of color alone, nobody's pushing for the rights of LGBT people alone, nobody's pushing for the rights of workers alone. The only way you can engage and change institutions and laws is together.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Bronto on June 07, 2014, 09:05:52 pm
Inb4 Kesh makes no sense.
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I went to college a long time ago. I approve this message.
Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: Keshian on June 07, 2014, 09:18:10 pm

Heroin is dangerous- nobody is saying that it's not, but it doesn't take a genius to consider for a second the notion that it's more dangerous outlawed than not. When it's outlawed, you have to deal with: the danger of the drug itself- you don't know HOW pure it is, you don't know if it's been adulterated; the exposure to a criminal network; the threat of jail time; the lack of a support base for helping you with your addiction (because it is criminalized). If it were legalized and available we could get rid of a larger amount of those threats while simultaneously better informing the public about its dangers instead of focusing on just-say-no fear mongering which at this point is glaringly ineffective in curtailing use.  Do you see how peoples lives have been destroyed by these drugs under prohibition- a system where they get no help to combat their problems? No hope for outreach because of fear of being locked up? If you don't die from abuse and are "lucky" enough to get caught you spend years in prison and then are stigmatized as a criminal when you go back to society. Putting citizens in prison is a shitty stop-gap of a "solution".  The above goes for coke as in case of the unfortunate person who Bob spoke of.

Wow, this is just more heavily biased then the others.  First, completely ignore methodone clinics (have had friends where this helped) and other treatments (most convictions for heroin and other life-threatening drugs are accompanied by requirements to stay off the drug during parole/probation with various programs to help keep them off the drug and vast avst majority of first time offenders with a small amount of substance (users, not sellers) plea bargain down to probation). 

Your "legalizing" making it more safe is just ludicrous - it would expose a far greater number of people and at a younger age with easier accessibility and price to a highly addictive dangerous substance that kills thousands every year.  As easy as getting prescription medication except heroin and meth don't cure anything, just causes long-term damage and death.  It would be like saying its okay to allow everyone to buy/sell contaminated meat because at least its regulated contaminated meat so less dangerous than black market contaminated meat (though the people dying from salmonella and other poisonings die regardless of which kind they would get might disagree with you)

I'm trying to get you and others to reconsider their position as to their legality, to give ME the freedom to do so (because my freedom to fuck who I want, use what substances I want, these never ought to have been anyone's fucking business but my own), because people's lives are at stake.

So people's lives are at stake as to your reasoning for legalizing heroin.  The freedom to use what you want.  By that reasoning Anthrax should be legalized and mustard gas and meth labs, never mind that they severely affect the health and threaten the lives of many other people - as long as you get the freedom to kill yourself how you like.

I wouldn't have to try to convince people if other people hadn't change the rules fifty years ago because they wanted to start a War on Some Drugs to make a profit 


(Really??, lol and I guess Kennedy was killed by the CIA and we never actually landed on the moon too, right?.

P.S.  Makes sense, Bronto
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Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Artyem on June 08, 2014, 01:09:32 am
Kennedy was killed by the moon, wake up sheeple.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on June 08, 2014, 01:58:24 am
drugs are bad now stop dumbposting
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Balikar on June 08, 2014, 02:47:54 am
drugs are bad now stop dumbposting

And start shitposting.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Bryggan on June 08, 2014, 04:59:37 am
So, do we have to start assigning wars?  I can equip a battle ready army in 2 or 3 trade runs, and take great pleasure in kicking ass... or getting my ass kicked.  I think we need to remind people that the idea of the game is not to win, but to slaughter, kill, destroy, and shed blood.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Keshian on June 08, 2014, 05:30:38 am
So, do we have to start assigning wars?  I can equip a battle ready army in 2 or 3 trade runs, and take great pleasure in kicking ass... or getting my ass kicked.  I think we need to remind people that the idea of the game is not to win, but to slaughter, kill, destroy, and shed blood.

Kind of reminds me of an old game called Krush, Kill & Destroy (KKND for short).  Mid '90s overhead real-time strategy game in post-apocalyptic earth.  Random connections.  Pretty much most good strategy games involve a lot of fighting, sadly this iteration of strat is lacking in that department.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Canary on June 08, 2014, 05:32:42 am
So, do we have to start assigning wars?

MB vs. Occitan, Acre vs. Wardens, Squids vs. Vagabonds and black company and GForce leftovers, everybody else gets into a big dumb free for all.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Bryggan on June 08, 2014, 07:19:51 am
MB vs. Occitan, Acre vs. Wardens, Squids vs. Vagabonds and black company and GForce leftovers, everybody else gets into a big dumb free for all.
I like that!  and Displaced Knights and Second Sons (DiKaSS for short) fights everyone (though keep free trade agreements).
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Bronto on June 09, 2014, 03:08:45 am
You can't keep free trade agreements. Who will attack the traders?
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Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Smoothrich on June 09, 2014, 08:55:53 am
Malaclypse, how do you feel about gun control?
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: SugarHoe on June 28, 2014, 12:51:03 am
The problem here is that everyone knows each other.  We all go on each other's teamspeaks, get to know one another as individuals, and decide who are friends and enemies are by personality.

It would be nice if everyone made their decisions by the Strat map; attacking fiefs because of strategic or economic value, not because the owner shitposted them or TKed them twice in C-Rpg, and allied themselves with people not because they're cool, or they're dating their sister*, but because it will give you a temporary advantage which you might use against them later.

So I suggest everyone should be forced to change their game names so no one will know who's who (and revealing your identity would result in $200** fine and perma ban), people may only go on their clan's TS and no one else's, and all diplomacy must be done through letters written in a proper RP style (each one to be submitted to the fine people who got rid of the 'Hello Kitty' banner for approval before being sent).

Plus any clan that does not play in a proper Machiavellian style will be fined $100 per member.

This would lead to proper game play and perhaps a little less bitching.

*Yeah, I know.  True Strat players don't date.
** Canadian dollars.  Sent to me.
shut up nerd
Title: Re: not really sorry
Post by: UnholyRolyPoly on June 28, 2014, 09:24:03 am
Wow, this is just more heavily biased then the others.  First, completely ignore methodone clinics (have had friends where this helped) and other treatments (most convictions for heroin and other life-threatening drugs are accompanied by requirements to stay off the drug during parole/probation with various programs to help keep them off the drug and vast avst majority of first time offenders with a small amount of substance (users, not sellers) plea bargain down to probation). 

Your "legalizing" making it more safe is just ludicrous - it would expose a far greater number of people and at a younger age with easier accessibility and price to a highly addictive dangerous substance that kills thousands every year.  As easy as getting prescription medication except heroin and meth don't cure anything, just causes long-term damage and death.  It would be like saying its okay to allow everyone to buy/sell contaminated meat because at least its regulated contaminated meat so less dangerous than black market contaminated meat (though the people dying from salmonella and other poisonings die regardless of which kind they would get might disagree with you)

So people's lives are at stake as to your reasoning for legalizing heroin.  The freedom to use what you want.  By that reasoning Anthrax should be legalized and mustard gas and meth labs, never mind that they severely affect the health and threaten the lives of many other people - as long as you get the freedom to kill yourself how you like.
 

(Really??, lol and I guess Kennedy was killed by the CIA and we never actually landed on the moon too, right?.

P.S.  Makes sense, Bronto
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Yes and no.  I completely agree with your take on the blackmarket vs free market use of drugs.  I've also seen a lot of people throw their lives away on heavy drugs.  But our current approach is certainly not working.  Some of the laws look good on paper.  But things like "Drug Court" are not effective.  A lot of people just end up back in jail.  We're not giving people treatment in most cases... only punishment.  The free market aspect of Heroin provides and entirely new problem.  It will be cheap and widely available.  People will be more likely to use it and unlike "soft drugs" it's life changing.  My wife's cousin shot himself in the head over crack.  He told me he started.... because he was 16 years old and caught his uncle smoking it.  He asked him why.... and his uncle said, "once you take your first hit you can't go back."  He bet he could and hit the pipe.  10 years later and a long struggle in and out of clinics (and jail) he shot himself.  Never underestimate the power of stupidity among young people.  He was a good dude.  And he when he was clean he was normal.

However there are a multitude of factors which play into drug abuse.  Economic circumstances are high on the list.  We don't try to improve the lives of poor people.  We herd them like cattle.  We pull them into the projects where they will likely spend the rest of their lives with nothing.  Meanwhile the Department of Land Management owns like 80+% of Nevada lol.  We aren't creating economic prosperity.  We're arguing about the Washington Redskins.  If we can find ways for people to improve their own lives... they will have pride... and it will improve the overall culture.  That will be handed down from generation to generation creating a passive resistance to things like drug abuse.  Check the numbers of people who take the worst roads in life.  Most come from broken homes etc etc.  The overall cultural conditions in the poorest areas are as bad as the economic ones.  It's all decaying....  And those areas are America's Heartland when it comes to crack, Aids, Meth, and general abuse.  That's what happens when you treat people like animals. 

And of course.... as bad as I feel for the people who end up on hard drugs....  You can't ignore the overall economic circumstances of the nation and the pathetic status of the drug war.  We aren't just losing.  We are diving head first into catastrophe.  We put more and more people into the same conditions mentioned above trying to over regulate the marketplace.  Though I agree the hardest drugs should be illegal.  We could save a lot of money and lives decriminalizing some of them.  How many billions of dollars go to the drug war that could go to education?  How many trillions are we spending that we don't even have?  We're devaluing the money supply to the point the middle and lower classes have nothing.  Can we really point to the drug war and say that criminalization is working?  Is THAT where we should spend our peoples efforts? 

There are so many things which should be addressed via law.  But doing so creates an overall burden on the people.  The use of drugs are a personal choice heavily influenced by cultural and economic conditions.  Most action taken by government is detrimental to those conditions (even though it is meant to be positive.)  Take a step back from most MAJOR policies and ask yourself if it's working..... the answer is usually no.  If it is yes then it is barely so.  Furthermore there is a greater question of which level of government can actually be effective combating such a problem.  Local police are obviously on the forefront.  Most if not all states have specialized task forces for Drug Enforcement.  And of course the Federal Govermnment is spending billions both supporting and furthering the war on drugs.  The CIA was running guns for drugs in Vietnam and I have no doubt they are doing the same today.  As Milton Friedman said....  You can put the Federal Government in Charge of the Sahara Desert and there will be a shortage of sand with 5 years.  Government in general may not be the answer.  It's the quick solution.  It's the first solution which pops into peoples minds with a problem of this magnitude.  But how did it work out with prohibition?  It spurred decades of organized crime who btw.... shifted from illegal liquor to illegal drugs lol.  Are we not doing the same thing over again?  Are we only looking at the victims of drug abuse here are are we looking at the whole picture.  We are creating the conditions for a massive international crime organization who murders tens of thousands a year in Mexico, Columbia, and the United States.  And yet... we are no more successful that we were in the 1980's. 

I do not believe Heroin should be widely available in the free market.  "Tax for Treatment" doesn't work for Tobacco and it won't work for Heroin.  Politicians will use the money to for a New Program on the dangers of Bullying leaving the poor heroin addicts to die alone.  It's just in their nature to be stupid.  But we could take a step in the right direction legalizing things like Marijuana and possibly even cocaine.  I don't know how far we could go to strike a proper balance.  Clearly some are worse than others.

And just a side note on the legalization of Marijuana.......

Consider what happened with tobacco.  It was legal and widely available since the founding of the country.  Then in the early 1900's our government decided that tobacco needed to be regulated.  All of the sudden small farmers couldn't grow and sell it to consumers and big tobacco was born.  Farmers had to sell to the big companies who then sold to the consumers.  Before long they cut out the American farmers altogether lol.  Within a couple decades they "enhanced" the product to the point cigarettes are no longer tobacco.... they are paper... soaked in a tobacco nicotine solution that is a lot more addictive than the native plant. 

If we truly legalize Marijuana there will be quality control issues.  Some people will do bad things and put bad things in their products.  There will be news stories of these events and they will be blown up to appear as though they are common.  In reality they will be isolated incidents of stupid people doing stupid things which will put them out of business fast.  Nonetheless People will demand regulation.  Instead of local farmers/people growing and selling to their neighbors....  BIG WEED will be born.  And within a few decades it will ALL be imported from Mexico.  It will no longer be Marijuanna but paper soaked in a THC/HydroCloricaligockjigudfide Solution.  And of course to top it off.... once the product is completely addictive and 1k times worse than the worst form of the original plant the government will sue...  Sin Taxes will be levied...  and politicians will use the money to fund Vasectomies for Puppies leaving the poor BIG WEED victims to die alone.  It's just the way fucking politicians think. 








Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Bryggan on June 28, 2014, 09:39:47 pm
shut up nerd
I will not shut up!  I strongly believe that any strongly enforced rules that help me micro-manage everyone and makes me a lot of money is worth it.

And I'm not a nerd.  I test experimental military aircraft during the day and play saxophone in a New Orleans blues joint at night, and I date a different supermodel every week.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Thryn on June 28, 2014, 09:57:48 pm
I will not shut up!  I strongly believe that any strongly enforced rules that help me micro-manage everyone and makes me a lot of money is worth it.

And I'm not a nerd.  I test experimental military aircraft during the day and play saxophone in a New Orleans blues joint at night, and I date a different supermodel every week.

nerd geek
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Bryggan on June 28, 2014, 10:22:24 pm
Ok, I'll accept geek.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Aldogalus on July 11, 2014, 02:10:33 pm
Its obviously not a black/white situation. However, the single act of making the drugs illegal, not only sucks away our own government's money via the war on drugs, but also the simple risk/reward rule comes into play here. The fact that the drugs are harder to obtain, makes them more valuable when they do get here, and if there is money involved, there will be no shortage of dip-shits trying to bring/produce the drugs here in the US. So the illegality of all these drugs makes it much more profitable to move/produce them. Our intent is to fight the war on drugs, but really we are just giving the criminals/drug cartels massive funding, because the illegality of it, is what makes drug dealing/smuggling so profitable. We are funding these whack-job criminals and drug lords, by making it harder to obtain the drugs here in our own soil.

It also makes people more likely to do other illegal activities, to obtain the money to spend on the drugs. IE: breaking into your house to steal your tv, mugging you, robbing an old man of his heart pills to sell for other drugs, rob banks, etc etc.

I think the focus should be on as unholy said, education and treatment over punishment/enforcement. Granted many a job would be lost if we just ended the war on drugs altogether, but new jobs would spawn from the other approach. You obviously wouldn't want to dispose of the DEA and other agencies right away, but instead swing their focus to drug issues that spawn here within our home borders (IE: meth, bath salts, regulating pharmaceuticals - this one is huge, and regulating the new medical marijuana craze - some states have legalized marijuana, and it is much easier to smuggle anything from state to state, vs going through customs or trying to avoid them).
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: arowaine on July 11, 2014, 04:01:15 pm
MB vs. Occitan, Acre vs. Wardens, Squids vs. Vagabonds and black company and GForce leftovers, everybody else gets into a big dumb free for all.

legitime buisness man vs super friend!
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: BaleOhay on July 11, 2014, 04:08:10 pm
superfriends no longer exist
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Switchtense on July 11, 2014, 04:18:18 pm
superfriends no longer exist

Yes, it is Superduperfriends now.
Title: Re: Any other NA Wars?
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on June 18, 2019, 12:52:45 pm
lol kesh got owned by lolbertarians 5 years ago