cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: San on March 05, 2014, 01:48:12 am

Title: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: San on March 05, 2014, 01:48:12 am
Website added, no need to download: http://tinyurl.com/crpgcalc

Longer version:
(click to show/hide)

If you want to download for yourself so you can edit the layout:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Thranduil on March 05, 2014, 02:54:06 am
At first testing it seems to be working fine and accurate. I'll let you know if something breaks.  :wink:


*EDIT* I do like how I can modify the HTML to have my own personalized cRPG Calc page.  :mrgreen:

And now my own personalized Calculator!
(click to show/hide)


And in case anyone is interested, here's how I did it:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: HappyPhantom on March 05, 2014, 03:17:26 am
Comment so I can find this later  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on March 05, 2014, 09:28:09 am
Thanks for the link. My bookmarked character builder hadn't been patched since before the AGI rework, and getting inaccurate WPF was driving me crazy.

Working like a charm so far.
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: BlueKnight on March 05, 2014, 11:06:13 am
Can we stick it somewhere?
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Moncho on March 05, 2014, 11:51:55 am
It does not seem to be saving characters for me. Anybody else have this problem?
Other than that, seems fine
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Grumbs on March 05, 2014, 12:08:48 pm
I'm surprised at the amount of variation between the min and max damage. I remember an update was done that was supposed to average out the min and max damage so its less random, but seems we still have quite a big range from min - max damage
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Angellore on March 05, 2014, 03:09:22 pm
I'm surprised at the amount of variation between the min and max damage. I remember an update was done that was supposed to average out the min and max damage so its less random, but seems we still have quite a big range from min - max damage
I'm surprised anyone still rely on those damage formulas :D. They are wrong since like 2011, but people are still using them.
cRPG damage depends from many more factors now, like % damage change of specific weapon types, increased pierce penetration value (imo it's way too high in crpg) and so on.
This damage calculator was quite fine in 2011, but even then it wasn't perfect. Now it just gives you basically random numbers, which has nothing to do with reality.
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Grumbs on March 05, 2014, 03:26:02 pm
I thought the point of the thread was that San updated and fixed the formula?
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: San on March 05, 2014, 03:40:34 pm
Some wpp was automatically being used, removed that.

Quote
I'm surprised at the amount of variation between the min and max damage. I remember an update was done that was supposed to average out the min and max damage so its less random, but seems we still have quite a big range from min - max damage

Randomness from damage to armour has been reduced to 5%, but there's still an inherent 90%-100% raw damage randomness to attacks, from what is used in the calc.
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Thranduil on March 05, 2014, 03:42:36 pm
It does not seem to be saving characters for me. Anybody else have this problem?
Other than that, seems fine

Hey Moncho. It won't save characters because that requires a cookie. Since the file is actually running straight from your computer and not using the internet at all, no cookie is generated. At least, I think that's what's going on here. Too bad I'm still in the early stages of learning Java, or I'd say maybe I could work a quick fix to it to save the data as a text file to be read by the program.

*EDIT* After a little research into file writing with javascript, this idea is rather moot. It might be possible, but it would be a real pain to try. At least for me right now it would.
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: kinngrimm on March 05, 2014, 03:44:47 pm
upto lvl 37 now :) nice

- the additional WPP you get on melee weapons is not represented.
- clicking on the "shield" checkbox does not change anything
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Dexxtaa on March 05, 2014, 03:53:44 pm
And here I was sitting around picking the nicest looking things to swing at people and looking at corgi pictures.
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Angellore on March 05, 2014, 04:07:04 pm
I thought the point of the thread was that San updated and fixed the formula?
I think he updated Builder. From damage section he changed wpf decrease (gloves x4 and helmet x2 change) and new armor soak value. At least that's how I understand those changes.
The thing is, current crpg damage don't base on single formula, and crpg code isn't open source, so you can't check this easily. Also, many things depends from WSE now, so I suspect even with source code it will be hard to figure out true damage values.
Calculations in this builder are based on old formula, with just few things changed. Even if you add modified armor soak value (which should be right) and wpf decrease (which also should be right), it will still give you bad result, because current crpg damage calcuations are surely much more complicated than just old base damage formula, figured out by few different people in 2010-2011.
That's why I wouldn't belive those calculations :wink:.
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: San on March 05, 2014, 04:13:17 pm
Min and max are accurate, but the average is a little dumb. It shouldn't be the average of min & max, but the average of the damage randomness between 90% and 100%.
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Tydeus on March 05, 2014, 04:32:03 pm
Don't forget, the weight penalty is (weight_after_modifiers - 10) ^ 1.12. Then for ranged you have the wpf per PD/PT reduction, a 1.5x multiplier for crossbows(but this doesn't affect damage) and for melee you have...

(abs((2*weight penalty)/3 - 100) * wpf)/100

meaning the penalty is applied as a percent.
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Angellore on March 05, 2014, 06:02:55 pm
Min and max are accurate(...)
According to this damage calculator, my 2h hero with 21 STR, 7 PS, 170 WPF, Claymore +3 (46 cut damage), 4 weight helmet, 14 weight armor, 2 weight gauntlets, 3 weight boots, against most popular 65 body armor (50 armor + 15 gauntlets) would deal minimum 9.23, maximum 17.9 damage. Average melee player has 60 HP, so I would need 4 to 7 hits to kill the guy.
In game, just 2 hits (even without holding damage bonus) are enough to kill almost everyone with this build/weapon. There is also speed bonus, but I don't think it would basically double effective damage? Especially i'm walking backward most of the time with my 2h char :wink:.
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: dreadnok on March 05, 2014, 06:12:47 pm
Stop the insanity, a fucking stick can kill people in plate with a glance, there is no rhyme or fuckimg reason. Might as well just rid of attributes as well since this last wpf hullaballo. A fucking piece of shit dagger can almost one you, gay or like a lay or. Just run up and smash people and the game will be more enjoyable. Ooo and don't forget dragging the mouse calculations for swings as well. And don't forget military helicopter swings with 2h as well
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Moncho on March 05, 2014, 06:15:53 pm
...
- the additional WPP you get on melee weapons is not represented.
...
It is represented on the menu on the right, not on the one where you allocate it, eg put 94 in one and on the right you will see 94/11/11
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on March 05, 2014, 08:36:25 pm
A fucking piece of shit dagger can almost one you, gay or like a lay or.

Fascinating please tell me more.
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: SP1N on March 05, 2014, 09:27:08 pm
Calculating my agi-build's pike damage:

(click to show/hide)

Calculating a 21/18 2h build:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Rhaelys on March 05, 2014, 11:33:00 pm
Calculating my agi-build's pike damage:

(click to show/hide)

Calculating a 21/18 2h build:

(click to show/hide)

Yeah but your agi-pike looks like this in battle:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: SP1N on March 06, 2014, 02:45:39 am
Yeah but your agi-pike looks like this in battle:

(click to show/hide)

Maybe before the "sweetspot" change. Now I just glance around everywhere making this face:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: San on March 06, 2014, 07:13:00 pm
Added raw damage text. Added knockdown chance for blunt + knockdown checkbox. Not entirely understanding the things Tydeus wrote, but I think I added in the updated armour weight penalty. Didn't bother with the crossbow wpf stuff since it doesn't affect damage. I switched PD/PT penalty to subtract after the armour weight penalty instead of before.

@kinngrimm
- the additional WPP you get on melee weapons is not represented.
They are on the character stats to the right. Didn't bother with highlighting them green when active.

- clicking on the "shield" checkbox does not change anything
It only works for 1h/2h and polearm. I don't have the confirmed penalty with shield / mounted for everything, so treat those damages as placeholder.
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: dreadnok on March 06, 2014, 07:52:10 pm
Added raw damage text. Added knockdown chance for blunt + knockdown checkbox. Not entirely understanding the things Tydeus wrote, but I think I added in the updated armour weight penalty. Didn't bother with the crossbow wpf stuff since it doesn't affect damage. I switched PD/PT penalty to subtract after the armour weight penalty instead of before.

@kinngrimm
- the additional WPP you get on melee weapons is not represented.
They are on the character stats to the right. Didn't bother with highlighting them green when active.

- clicking on the "shield" checkbox does not change anything
It only works for 1h/2h and polearm. I don't have the confirmed penalty with shield / mounted for everything, so treat those damages as placeholder.

Ahhhh that's what the shield box is for! Thx San. You are a great asset to crpg
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: dreadnok on March 06, 2014, 07:54:40 pm
Fascinating please tell me more.

Pardon me witchcraft, I have man hands and this phone was made for pygmies. Still funny tho
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Torben on March 06, 2014, 08:04:47 pm
+1
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: San on March 06, 2014, 08:08:38 pm
Added website, no more stupid downloads:

https://googledrive.com/host/0Bzs1vJv0tQLHZ3AwLUQ0Tkt0djg/calc.html
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Thranduil on March 06, 2014, 08:38:46 pm
Aww. No more custom background.  :(

Hey Moncho! You got cookies enabled? We can save builds now!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Moncho on March 06, 2014, 08:44:55 pm
Yeah now it works I thought there may be a text file on the offline version that could be read or written to with some nifty script.
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Moncho on March 07, 2014, 02:50:03 pm
Sorry for double post, but would it be possible to add a weapon damage comparer?
Maybe plotting pierce dmg with one base value vs cut of another value.
Either two columns that can be checked at the same time, or just a column that changes only the weapon, leaving the build and armour equal to compare different weapons. For example comparing GLA and Bec, I wanted to see at what point the bec starts doing more damage, and it would be easier if this was added. It is doable as is, but would be made easier.
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: San on March 07, 2014, 07:01:50 pm
I'm neither helping beginners nor am I making a guide.

(click to show/hide)

Edit: Now stickied, I sound like a real whiner now.
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: li379041890 on March 12, 2014, 04:14:58 pm
Hi San, Can I get your permission to modify this calculator (just make language translation) and post it in Chinese cRPG forum?
Cuz I am currently translating this calculating to Chinese so that those Chinese players can get a better idea of their builds.

And another question
In the JavaScript code there are formula about knockdown but it doesn't show on the calculate, how can i get it work?
 :D
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: San on March 12, 2014, 04:24:46 pm
This is not mine and the original creator allowed it. Feel free!

I just changed it so you only need to click the knockdown checkbox. Before, you also had to switch the weapon type to blunt.
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: li379041890 on March 12, 2014, 04:29:00 pm
This is not mine and the original creator allowed it. Feel free!

I just changed it so you only need to click the knockdown checkbox. Before, you also had to switch the weapon type to blunt.
WOW :shock:
San you are so fast. :D :D
Again, Thank you for quick reply!!
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Soulreaver on March 12, 2014, 07:39:39 pm
Raw Damage: 70.01
Knockdown Chance for Head/Legs: 22.5%
Knockdown Chance for Body: 2.42%
 :shock:
shithammer :mad:
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Cup1d on July 17, 2014, 06:49:08 pm
San, are you sure that formula for PD\weapon points influence is correct?
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: San on July 17, 2014, 07:20:29 pm
The current formula for PD penalty is definitely wpf - max(14*PD - (1.5 ^ PD), 0)

However, in-game, there are currently a few bugs with the penalties resulting in ~30-40 higher wpf on average than expected for archers, throwers, and horse ranged. We're currently trying to fix the penalties while keeping a similar standard of accuracy that the bugged wpf values gave ground archers. At the moment, take archery damage values as a loose approximation for now that could be off by a few points of damage.

Also, ranged to human penalties:
        calves: 85%
        feet: 70%
        shoulders: 85%
        upper arms: 75%
        forearms: 70%
        hands: 65%

Rain is also a 10% penalty to your raw damage, which is around 30% less final damage.
The head is also around 220%, but I'm recalling that from memory.

I'll try to update it again when the current bugs are fixed.
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Cup1d on July 18, 2014, 03:33:27 pm
Thank you for info about  damage distribution. BTW, any plans for backstab bonus for damage? For torso and head for example.

And what about 13PD builds, it still negates all penalties, or it's just a flaw in calculation?
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: San on July 22, 2014, 12:11:54 am
Backstab damage would be interesting, but speed bonus would probably need to be toned down. You can almost triple your damage output with good speed bonus and a held hit to the head. Using the in-game reporter for admins, a swing that dealt 11 damage to the body dealt 18 to the head with similar armor. Head damage is larger than what is currently believed.

Updated the PD penalty with this: wpf after PD penalty = wpf - (max(14*PD - (1.35^PD)-35,0))

If the damage section starts out with 170 wpf, that means I know it's updating correctly. I also updated it with proper horseback penalties some time in the last few weeks. The damage you see on the calc is when standing still, a very low estimator of actual damage in-game.
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Kalp on November 03, 2014, 05:37:51 pm
When typing the weight, should I use commas or dots ? Because depending on what I use I get two different results.

ok, nvm i figured out
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Soulreaver on March 14, 2015, 05:34:51 pm
would be nice to have another calc update  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: Earthdforce on August 14, 2018, 08:00:15 pm
would be nice to have another calc update  :rolleyes:
Agreed
Title: Re: Damage calc / character builder updated
Post by: San on August 24, 2018, 06:48:37 am
I don't have access to WSE stuff so I don't know which formulas are being used, feel free to branch off what's already there.