Dev Blog #5 Combat

[Golem]

What about stances for the classes other than swordsmen?  Are hoplites going to have different stances or even archers?

and the shield type, some could have no penalty since they are designed for this.

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They said, there will be different attacks for every weapon type, not neccessarily different stances, but having stances for archers seems taking it a bit too far.

[Drunken_sailor]

They said, there will be different attacks for every weapon type, not neccessarily different stances, but having stances for archers seems taking it a bit too far.

why not? you could have a kneeling stance for accuracy like in most fps.

[Golem]

why not? you could have a kneeling stance for accuracy like in most fps.

How would kneeling with a bow make you more stable? Maybe with a crossbow...
Still it's not really a stance for the weapon, but rather the whole body.

The thing is that Warband provides a 100% weapon-proof invincible 'wall' at a certain degree in your looking direction, if you 100% block correct. So implemented feats like feinting, chambering or kicking as well as player tricks like dragging stabs, roflcopter, hiltslash, 360 turns etc. have the function to break through that wall.
Melee tries a whole new approach which the system of stances, timed blocks, passive blocks and stamina. For example only 1 timed block will force a stance change on the opponent so he can at max. achieve a passive block in response to your following attack. At this point the whole block-slash-block-slash rhythm we have in Warband is already broken. How that will work out or feel to play I have no idea but we have to disregard taking basic mechanisms from warband to be granted.

That would imply being locked into animation once you attack, not being able to move or rotate at all. I don't like that, it would completely ruin the fluid feel we had in the first alpha testing.

It's not a valid tactic irl though, as is feint spamming like you do in Warband.

Both of those are valid tactics. Any tactic is valid, if it can suprise or give any kind of advantage, over your opponenent.
What isn't valid, is your assumption, that just because you don't know how to pull something off, nobody can.

[Golem]

Bannerlord...improved combat

[MacX85]

Both of those are valid tactics. Any tactic is valid, if it can suprise or give any kind of advantage, over your opponenent.
What isn't valid, is your assumption, that just because you don't know how to pull something off, nobody can.

Well, I'm arguing historically. It was not a valid tactic according to medieval Fechtbücher and it's not seen to be done by HEMA fighters.
The goal of the game should be to make combat look realistic while being fun and challenging.

There are enough games with unrealistic looking combat mechanics around. That's not why I'm here.

[Drunken_sailor]

How would kneeling with a bow make you more stable? Maybe with a crossbow...
Still it's not really a stance for the weapon, but rather the whole body.

ok, well kneeling with a bow is nearly the same thing just as it is with guns, even the smallest difference in stability provided from kneeling when expanded upon the distance of trajectory and relative straight line motion of a projectile (msX * distance * 10^9000+cos{straight line}) would result in greater long range accuracy.  and couldn't any stance be considered a stance of the body?  If all your moving is your arms it is still the body.

Rephrasing my question, I guess I was just curious about the depth of stances in the game, how are you planning for stances to be effected by shield wielding?

also with the implementation of stances will there also be combo attacks?

stance reference game
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido_Blade_%28video_game%29

[The_Bloody_Nine]

That would imply being locked into animation once you attack, not being able to move or rotate at all.

eh, why would that imply that?

[Golem]

Well, I'm arguing historically. It was not a valid tactic according to medieval Fechtbücher and it's not seen to be done by HEMA fighters.
The goal of the game should be to make combat look realistic while being fun and challenging.

There are enough games with unrealistic looking combat mechanics around. That's not why I'm here.

Mabe look at some kung fu movies for a change. 

eh, why would that imply that?

The thing is that Warband provides a 100% weapon-proof invincible 'wall' at a certain degree in your looking direction, if you 100% block correct. So implemented feats like feinting, chambering or kicking as well as player tricks like dragging stabs, roflcopter, hiltslash, 360 turns etc. have the function to break through that wall.
Melee tries a whole new approach which the system of stances, timed blocks, passive blocks and stamina. For example only 1 timed block will force a stance change on the opponent so he can at max. achieve a passive block in response to your following attack. At this point the whole block-slash-block-slash rhythm we have in Warband is already broken. How that will work out or feel to play I have no idea but we have to disregard taking basic mechanisms from warband to be granted.

dunno. no idea why I wrote that lol

ok, well kneeling with a bow is nearly the same thing just as it is with guns, even the smallest difference in stability provided from kneeling when expanded upon the distance of trajectory and relative straight line motion of a projectile (msX * distance * 10^9000+cos{straight line}) would result in greater long range accuracy.  and couldn't any stance be considered a stance of the body?  If all your moving is your arms it is still the body.

Rephrasing my question, I guess I was just curious about the depth of stances in the game, how are you planning for stances to be effected by shield wielding?

also with the implementation of stances will there also be combo attacks?

stance reference game
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido_Blade_%28video_game%29

I  still can't imagine someone kneeling with a longbow, unless he's pointing at the sky.
Guns have recoil, crossbow do too, that's why it's profitable to put your centre of mass as low as possible for best accuracy. But I've shot a bow at multiple occasions and none of them had any recoil, infact the very design of a bow makes it fly forward, as it were, upon the release of the string.
I won't even go into automated combos.

[Gaz.Spencer]

The thing with a bow, is that you have a huge tension force between your two hands, which are pulling away from each other. A bows accuracy depends on your strength, and being able to hold the bow still and steady.

A gun and crossbow both need to just be held, and therefore going into a kneeling position means less of you body can move around, thus increasing accuracy.

[Drunken_sailor]

The thing with a bow, is that you have a huge tension force between your two hands, which are pulling away from each other. A bows accuracy depends on your strength, and being able to hold the bow still and steady.

I can see how a larger bows would require standing but smaller ones not so much
 for examples

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[Jacko]

Each weapon class will have it's own stances.

[Maestro]

Each weapon class will have it's own stances.

Will you use motion capture?

[The_Bloody_Nine]

Bannerlord comes out, infinitely improved over silly Warband combat and every Warband "chaser" ends being left in the dust.

Where did you get that impression? I'm hugely positive that Bannerlord will be a shitton of fun, but from what I've seen basic combat mechanics like I described above will be hugely the same.

[MacX85]

Yeah, the footage from last year's games com looked pretty much identical to Warband. I mean, I wouldn't change a thing as well if I were them... the mechanics they had made a plain ugly game hugely popular.

[Meow]

Will you use motion capture?

Meowtion Cature