Author Topic: Re: Melee: Battlegrounds Movement Discussion  (Read 7614 times)

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Offline jtobiasm

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Re: Melee: Battlegrounds Movement Discussion
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2014, 04:36:28 pm »
0
As for the Floyd quote

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157853
47-0, he ain't 47-0 for nothing, keep mirin

who says dodging is no skill!
Like I said don't compare Boxing to C-rpg or a medieval combat game ;D

Offline Leshma

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Re: Melee: Battlegrounds Movement Discussion
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2014, 05:24:45 pm »
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47-0, he ain't 47-0 for nothing, keep mirin

I think that at this point it's mainly about money and not boxing. If he loses everybody lose. Until crowd that is mirin him become bored, which probably will never come. Over the years UK developed serious case of inferiority complex, you need the likes of Mayweather to remind you how once great you were. Winning world cup in football is your ultimate wish but seeing how that won't ever happen, you have to be happy with boxing and those lame sports only you and your colonies play.

Offline jtobiasm

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Re: Melee: Battlegrounds Movement Discussion
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2014, 05:41:27 pm »
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I think that at this point it's mainly about money and not boxing. If he loses everybody lose. Until crowd that is mirin him become bored, which probably will never come. Over the years UK developed serious case of inferiority complex, you need the likes of Mayweather to remind you how once great you were. Winning world cup in football is your ultimate wish but seeing how that won't ever happen, you have to be happy with boxing and those lame sports only you and your colonies play.
What's boxing got to do with football?

Keep mirin #47-0 #TBE #TMT

Offline okiN

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Re: Melee: Battlegrounds Movement Discussion
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2014, 05:46:19 pm »
+2
I think that at this point it's mainly about money and not boxing. If he loses everybody lose. Until crowd that is mirin him become bored, which probably will never come. Over the years UK developed serious case of inferiority complex, you need the likes of Mayweather to remind you how once great you were. Winning world cup in football is your ultimate wish but seeing how that won't ever happen, you have to be happy with boxing and those lame sports only you and your colonies play.

Mayweather is American, you know.

A better point to make would be how America lost interest in heavyweights and started going crazy over light/welterweights as soon as American heavyweights stopped winning titles.
Don't.

Offline Smoothrich

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Re: Melee: Battlegrounds Movement Discussion
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2014, 06:14:13 pm »
+1

Basically turn the essence of this montage into Melee: BG combat. Tyson is a good, perhaps the best player, starts with an OP maxed out build of peak agility and strength, and everyone else is a shitty RMB/backpedaling/spamming bad on the pub server that feed his KD.

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Offline Kafein

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Re: Melee: Battlegrounds Movement Discussion
« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2014, 06:20:55 pm »
+2
I think Warband implements dodging the best way there is : you just fucking move. Please, please do not ever add any gamey double tap or "dodge move" nonsense. You wouldn't stop paying attention to your weapon in order to move faster, and it would not actually make you faster anyway. One of the greatest qualities of WB combat is that it is intuitive and easy to learn as a result. Specific dodge moves are the pinnacle of unintuitive movement and would significantly raise the barrier to entry and completely destroy the immersion for no good reason.

However the whole "constantly try to get behind someone in a straight fight" thing is dumb and should be addressed by both increasing the size of the collision models for humans (compared to WB) and having really good netcode to avoid tunnel effects (people randomly teleporting through others).

Offline Leshma

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Re: Melee: Battlegrounds Movement Discussion
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2014, 06:56:10 pm »
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Mayweather is American, you know.

All this time I thought he was British... don't follow boxing closely, just wanted to troll Brits a bit but failed miserably :|

Offline jtobiasm

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Re: Melee: Battlegrounds Movement Discussion
« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2014, 07:40:19 pm »
-1
All this time I thought he was British... don't follow boxing closely, just wanted to troll Brits a bit but failed miserably :|

srs?

Offline Smoothrich

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Re: Melee: Battlegrounds Movement Discussion
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2014, 09:47:32 pm »
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How about you freely move as people do now in Warband. But once you begin a swing or block, you are rooted into place. W A S D during these attacks and blocks then become individual footsteps, or you hold them down to  shift your weight to brace a block or lean into an attack. Agility focused players will get buffs to  use rapid or longer stride footsteps, and attacking effectively in succession will require readjusting your feet with WASD between swings, creating combos that allow you to press ground, fall back, pivot around, etc, but requiring coordination between the WASD controls of how you plant or move your feet with your mouse controlling your arms. Strength focused players may prefer to hold a direction to brace themselves and have bonuses to charging swings by holding LMB like in Warband but more tuned into the engine to give feedback through animations not meters or random guessing. So you hold LMB and position your feet with a couple taps then holding down your dominant foot's direction and release slow but much more powerful swings.

This works the same on defense, where your WASD taps or holds, which change your stance subtly but on the fly, influence how strong your blocks are from certain directions or types of attack. Lots of tapping RMB and WASD on defense is more about deflecting your opponents swings while closing the distance and getting a deadly first strike in. High STR people get buffs to holding RMB and a WASD direction to absorb the impact of attacks with ease and keep space between their opponent.

If you mess up your footwork and move in some sloppy imbalanced way, your attacks are much weaker and your blocks are more likely to cause you stun, stagger, or completely fail and get broken through. So just spamming LMB for hiltslashes or RMB downblocks to be invincible to an army of pikemen doesn't work, matching or countering footwork is just as important as direction.

Calculate something like "Force" of attacks instead of speed bonus, where you can be stationary but just adjust your dominant foot and shift your weight by mashing or releasing W or WA to be pivoting while releasing LMB to extend your stab are perfect hits, maybe even S your wieght back then tap W twice for a 1-2 step then release LMB for a real good pike thrust or something that impacts in a unique way. So you can just hold LMB and brace by holding S or something to be a cav deterrent, but require some coordination to deliver the most powerful attacks.

Would also work with my concept of "balance" which would be like an invisible stamina bar. If someone unleashes a combo of sword slashes on you that you can't block right, with them stepping up inside you and doing real solid hit after hit, your balance depletes real fast and your attacks and blocks are less effective, maybe even knock down chance, but if they stop pressing the assault, your balance shoots right back up as you catch your breath. Super charged swings can drop your balance criticlaly low for a second or two, depending on stance and crap, so people are extra vulnerable for a second after swinging a massive support weapon charged up for full damage.

Blunt weapons can drain balance the fastest to simulate concussive force disorienting your foe. Pierce attacks like spears can reliably hit with the most force, making them simple to use for new players and ideal group fighting weapons, with little reliance on fancy WASD stance adjustment to use effectively. Swords should be generally weak, but fast and very well suited for combo attacking, which is all dependent on your WASD taps and holds tocreate a real sense of pressure on your foe, so even a technically perfect warband blocker might struggle to adjust their WASD/mouse foot pivoting and crap and their blocks get less and less effective until they are overwhelmed. Two good swordsmen should have really exciting, fast, and deadly duels, adjusting their W A S D tap after every swing or block to make their next swing hit sooner or at a more unpredictable angle. Once someone starts winning the duel their opponents balance will quickly deplete without a new tactic and get owned.

Basically make the current WASD directional system more limited but meaningful during actual combat. Combine fast taps, long holds, and timing of release of W A S D , LMB, and RMB to make combat more violent and unpredictable, open to experimentation and full of depth. Maybe add space bar or some shit as a hop and something as a duck for real advanced play, where you don't move much different but are designed mostly to avoid attacks by dodging up or down in a smooth way.
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Offline Eugen

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Re: Melee: Battlegrounds Movement Discussion
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2014, 10:36:45 pm »
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Sorry to interrupt. Didnt read all. But its about movement aint it?

You were talking about melee sidesteps and dodging alot. What about a move for ranged. Give Melee:Battleground the crouch for ranged.

Either ranged can use it for hide and shoot or for the stylish battleformation of a line of crouching archers in front of a line of standing archers.

I definitly would like this feature, maybe still would not play ranged a lot, but hey - i´d like to watch ranged fighters using this.

Why only ranged? Becouse melee fighters are to proud to crouch!

And sorry I dont understand the difference between strafe (what we have in warband) and sidestep - isnt this totally the same????

However. Cheers. And keep up the spirit.
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Offline Smoothrich

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Re: Melee: Battlegrounds Movement Discussion
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2014, 11:20:15 pm »
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Strafing feels like a fps mechanic. I think a lot of us want to see something more physical and athletic to use in combat that adds another dimension of skill to melee fighting then just crab walking fast to the sides. I think controlling a big ass weapon should be a bit more in depth then mashing strafe or s key and sideswings and more physics should be involved.

Better environmental interaction to provide cover during ranged would be good too. In warband you hold swings and look down to duck. Be nice to lounge behind cover more naturally.
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Offline Byrdi

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Re: Re: Melee: Battlegrounds Movement Discussino
« Reply #56 on: November 15, 2014, 07:20:57 pm »
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I think if a swords coming at me 1 meter waint stop a guy killing me unless it's a stab. Pretty pointless mechanic.

oh yeah forgot, brb gunna dash 1 meter carrying a sword and wearing armour

Honestly, no matter how fat or slow you are; you should be able to dash on step away.
Whether one step is more or less than 1 meter is a different question though.

But as someone said above: no one wants to see a battlefield filled when "jedis" side stabbing and jagging around.
It could have a cooldown on it similar to nudges (or even shared with, like rolls are).

Offline Xant

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Re: Re: Melee: Battlegrounds Movement Discussino
« Reply #57 on: November 15, 2014, 07:25:36 pm »
+6
Honestly, no matter how fat or slow you are; you should be able to dash on step away.
Whether one step is more or less than 1 meter is a different question though.

But as someone said above: no one wants to see a battlefield filled when "jedis" side stabbing and jagging around.
It could have a cooldown on it similar to nudges (or even shared with, like rolls are).
Obviously not. Evidently jtobiasm is so fat and unathletic that any kind of fast movement seems like sci-fi.
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Offline jtobiasm

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Re: Re: Melee: Battlegrounds Movement Discussino
« Reply #58 on: November 15, 2014, 07:28:59 pm »
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Obviously not. Evidently jtobiasm is so fat and unathletic that any kind of fast movement seems like sci-fi.

http://www.simplyshredded.com/

oh ye, says daft kunt with 7000+ post
sad kunt
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 08:00:08 pm by jtobiasm »

Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: Re: Melee: Battlegrounds Movement Discussino
« Reply #59 on: November 15, 2014, 07:46:50 pm »
+2
Obviously not. Evidently jtobiasm is so fat and unathletic that any kind of fast movement seems like sci-fi.

Never thought id upvote a xunt post.
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