Re: Melee: Battlegrounds Movement Discussion

[Gravoth_iii]

Any chance of a mechanic that will kind of resemble a dodge, like a jump to the side in order to position yourself better when fighting multiple enemies? Current cRPG uses athletics and pure movement speed for all kinds of positioning, i'd like to see a game that has very similar combat movespeeds (where armor/weapon weight would be the only factor in movespeeds), but having a high amount of a stat that would resemble athletics in crpg, makes you able to dodge more often, and sprint faster when running straight.

Being a darksouls freak, i love dodging mechanics, rolls and all that jazz, it just adds a really nice layer of defensive play.

[Teeth]

I doubt he wants rolling in, but something like a quick sideways or backwards step could be nice. That is the worst looking aspect of Warband in my opinion, the constant WASD-ing everywhere regardless of what your body is doing. Perhaps a better looking combat system can be created by having relatively slow movement default WASD movement when in defensive and attack postures, and have specific steps you can do to complement an attack or block or attempt a dodge. I would love timing and positioning to play a bigger role than with Warband's retarded loldancing.

[Gravoth_iii]

IMO one of the best things about crpg and warband is that the battlefield isnt full of flipping ninjas or rolling heroes. It's the reason warband battlefields look so relatively immersive. It's a good mechanic for a single-player Rpg that has no regard for realism or 'good' looking medieval combat, and is designed with boss-fight mechanics in mind. Keep that shit in a single-player campaign or duel, but not on the battlefield.

Like Teeth said, a side step does not remove from the immersion any more than a ninja backepeddaling faster than someone can walk forward.
Also crpg already has rolling, didnt remove anything from the immersion imo although it looks ridiculous.

[Gravoth_iii]

It's the distinction between a team game and a rambo game. Imagine a battlefield like the actual good strategus battles but where everyone has special 'dodge' or 'dash' moves. Yes, like that rolling mechanic we have now -.-

I dont know if melee battlegrounds has chosen whether the emphasis will be duel-orientated or battlefield, in my mind doing both requires a compromise on the mechanics for both; if the battlefield was full of 2hand jedi duelists leaping and dodging about then that would look shit, if dueling was static or involved the same 'loldancing' as Warband then it'd be 2dimensional aswell.

"good strategus battles" this exists? why strat battles in particular? The game never was very immersive if thats the point you are trying to prove, i always thought it more arcadey and skill based, i never really felt like in an actual battle or anything. Skill based gameplay is what i want, and changing up how movements and positioning works could potentially improve the gameplay imo.

[Jacko]

Movement mechanics are something we've been discussing lately and definitely something we want to expand upon. Combat rolls don't fit the game, but stuff like side stepping certainly does. Smaller more precise mechanics fit thematically with the scale we are aiming for.

[Smoothrich]

"good strategus battles" this exists? why strat battles in particular? The game never was very immersive if thats the point you are trying to prove, i always thought it more arcadey and skill based, i never really felt like in an actual battle or anything. Skill based gameplay is what i want, and changing up how movements and positioning works could potentially improve the gameplay imo.

I think its more that Strategus is just objective-based with some really good maps for it. Field battles where teams fight over holding an OP hill that they can fortify, spending an hour demolishing a castlle while defenders all spam xbows then just pure carnage on walls and over rubble, desert maps where teams with the best cav and ranged mercs just slaughter everyone and get to have fun over heavy infantry's expense (just like irl)

You don't get that, ever, with shitty counter-strike one life pub star battle gameplay, but you do with Strategus's domination/conquest mechanics. Why I hope Melee: BG has a good but faster-paced and simpler mode for this, like a Battlefield game "Rush" type or something. Both teams take turns defending some pro siege map where defenders have to fall back further into the castle, and open flatter maps for Domination type, mix these maps/gametypes up on official servers.

Maps, rotations, gametypes, any info you can give on those?

[Teeth]

It's the distinction between a team game and a rambo game. Imagine a battlefield like the actual good strategus battles but where everyone has special 'dodge' or 'dash' moves. Yes, like that rolling mechanic we have now -.-

I dont know if melee battlegrounds has chosen whether the emphasis will be duel-orientated or battlefield, in my mind doing both requires a compromise on the mechanics for both; if the battlefield was full of 2hand jedi duelists leaping and dodging about then that would look shit, if dueling was static or involved the same 'loldancing' as Warband then it'd be 2dimensional aswell.

No it's not. I am literally talking about a quick 1 meter step in any direction, which is completely doable in real life and will look less unrealistic than the derpy movement stuff that is in Warband now. Such a thing is useful in any situation, be it duel or group fights. Having movement stuff that you need to think of using correctly just adds an extra layer of depth to break up the block-attack cycle. Having mostly consistent movement speeds like in Warband really makes ganking and duelling boring and unsurprising if you ask me, all the movement I do is mostly muscle memory. Slower base movement with the addition of quick steps makes the combat look way more realistic than now, and has the potential to be way deeper in both group and duel situations.

You don't get that, ever, with shitty counter-strike one life pub star battle gameplay, but you do with Strategus's domination/conquest mechanics.

I think a skill-based game benefits a lot from having a no-respawn game mode. It simply encourages skillfull and solid play instead of high risk, high reward play like in Strat battles. You might not want to overstate the perceived superiority of Strat battles over Battle. I most of my clan prefers Battle. I think Battle still allows for the most diverse set of viable playstyles, because surviving is important. Which probably makes it the best game mode currently available, which is why balance is also based mainly on Battle. I am not saying that a better game mode cannot be designed, but Strat definitely isn't it.

[Umbra]

Problem is, its hard to pull of any kind of quick sidstep mechanic without it looking derpy. And if you implement it, people will use it, all the time, or any time they can if you restrict it somehow. The whole battlefield will be a sidestep derp fest. If anyone played Man at Arms in Chivalry you should know what i mean.

[Gravoth_iii]

Problem is, its hard to pull of any kind of quick sidstep mechanic without it looking derpy. And if you implement it, people will use it, all the time, or any time they can if you restrict it somehow. The whole battlefield will be a sidestep derp fest. If anyone played Man at Arms in Chivalry you should know what i mean.

Well sure it should have some cooldown, 5 seconds or so and with every point of athletics for example it goes down by 0.2 seconds. The animation could be like ducking your head forward a bit and taking a big step to the side, in my mind that would look decent and not too silly even when being spammed. It could also be used only after performing a successful block, this way it would only be used in actual combat. If there was no real backstep then this would also remove s-key heroes which everyone seems to hate for some reason.

Even if it would look derpy, it would be funny at first using it all the time, but then people get used to it and forget about it looking silly etc.

[jtobiasm]

You shouldn't have the ability to dash 1 meter in any direction, this aint chivalry

[Teeth]

You shouldn't have the ability to dash 1 meter in any direction, this aint chivalry

Stand up, try to do a quick 1 meter step in any direction. How is the concept so difficult to grasp?

Even if it would look derpy, it would be funny at first using it all the time, but then people get used to it and forget about it looking silly etc.

People seem to be completely oblivious that Warband's movement while fighting doesn't look realistic at all. To a fresh viewer, the constant strafing which is completely disconnected from attacking, looks retarded and nothing like anything resembling real combat.

[jtobiasm]

Stand up, try to do a quick 1 meter step. How is the concept so difficult to grasp?

I think if a swords coming at me 1 meter waint stop a guy killing me unless it's a stab. Pretty pointless mechanic.

oh yeah forgot, brb gunna dash 1 meter carrying a sword and wearing armour

[Teeth]

How can you not picture a bunch of situations where moving one meter quickly in any direction helps you avoid the attack? Just look up some HEMA fighting or something, see how they move slowly until they attack or get attacked and then use big steps to try to create an advantage? Do you also see how they aren't constinously strafing at a constant speed regardless of what they are doing like in Warband? And yes, you can do this as well in armour and when armed, as I do not doubt many videos demonstrate.

The sooner everybody stops regarding Warband as the epitome of what is possible with a Medieval combat system, the earlier this game might actually become something better than a Warband 1.2. I would like to see slower movement speeds when in combat, with the ability to trigger quick steps, possibly tying in with whatever stamina system the devs have decided on. Warband's movement system is pretty crappy.

[Micah]

id like some dashing move option, eventhough i believe it will end up in heavy exploiting and tears ...

[jtobiasm]

1) How can you not picture a bunch of situations where moving one meter quickly in any direction helps you avoid the attack? Just look up some HEMA fighting or something, see how they move slowly until they attack or get attacked and then use big steps to try to create an advantage? Do you also see how they aren't constinously strafing at a constant speed regardless of what they are doing like in Warband? And yes, you can do this as well in armour and when armed, as I do not doubt many videos demonstrate.

The sooner everybody stops regarding Warband as the epitome of what is possible with a Medieval combat system, the earlier this game might actually become something better than a Warband 1.2. I would like to see slower movement speeds when in combat, with the ability to trigger quick steps, possibly tying in with whatever stamina system the devs have decided on. Warband's movement system is pretty crappy.

1) Dun't watch HEMA fighting kinda beta tbh
2) Slower movement in combat speed +1
3) Quick step shit, is a noooo from me dun't know anygame what has a stamina system what works apart from fifa

das it mane