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Should Pole/ 2hand axes be unbalanced?

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Author Topic: Should Polearm/ 2handed Axes be unbalanced?  (Read 676 times)

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Offline Voncrow

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Should Polearm/ 2handed Axes be unbalanced?
« on: October 21, 2014, 09:02:49 pm »
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I feel like they should be, and honestly it feels wrong that I can fiddle with it like I do.(spam feinting and all that.) What do you guys think?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 11:36:06 pm by Voncrow »
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Offline Jona

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Re: Should Axes be unbalanced?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2014, 09:20:17 pm »
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You're gonna have to be more specific than that... polearm axes? Lower-tier 2h axes? 1h axes? What kind of axes?!?!
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Offline Voncrow

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Re: Should Axes be unbalanced?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2014, 09:38:01 pm »
0
Good point, I mean 2handed and Polearm axes.
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Offline Jona

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Re: Should Polearm/ 2handed Axes be unbalanced?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2014, 09:56:43 pm »
0
2handed: Yeah, sure. Maybe the 1h/2h fighting axe could be balanced, since it's super puny, anyways.

Polearms: No, not really. There's obviously the whole "you hold them differently" argument, which of course makes sense, but also from a gameplay standpoint they should remain balanced.  Polearmers have the great long bardiche or voulge if they want to trade the "balanced" tag for extra cutting power. Well, the voulge is kind of a step-down in every way compared to the long war axe (or any of the axes, really) other than the fact that it has got a pierce stab.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 10:26:32 pm by Jona »
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Offline Huscarlton_Banks

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Re: Should Poleamr/ 2handed Axes be unbalanced?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2014, 10:03:21 pm »
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They'd probably have to get some extra damage/speed/weight if they got the unbalanced flag.

Pole feints in general look kind of jerky/funky compared to 1h/2h though, unless you do some really weird feints by looking at the sky/ground with sideswings/thrust and overhead(has no z rotation, so it's always straight ahead) in between.

Offline Voncrow

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Re: Should Polearm/ 2handed Axes be unbalanced?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2014, 11:39:58 pm »
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Fighting axe and the 1hand axe I'd agree to leave balanced, and possibly the lower tier 2hand axes as well. But I feel that the Polearm and higher tier 2hand axes are a bit strong, unbalancing them would feel like a natural way to balance(huehue) them to me. They have good damage, decent reach and decent speed, I mean the long axe has 97 speed and 41 cut,  that's crazy.
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Offline Huscarlton_Banks

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Re: Should Polearm/ 2handed Axes be unbalanced?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2014, 01:10:55 am »
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They're only really crazy vs. some 2h in that the mid to mid-long axes have bonus vs. shield + they're balanced so they're very flexible, but that's compensated by lower effective length with the attack animations.

Don't get me wrong, Long Axe is very good, but it's not all that crazy compared to 2hs near the same cost unless glitchy hiltslash/feint animations are used, and that's not really restricted to a specific polearm. Plus if you're not fighting someone with a shield, you usually give up some sort of trade-off via range/effective damage/speed/being able to rear. (See Bec-De-Corbin or the Hafted Blades vs Long Axe/Long War Axe/Great Long Axe,    Miaodao or 2H Warhammer pierce mode vs most of the 2H axes, etc.)

Just remember that:

1) You don't necessarily have to smash a shielder's shield to kill them with timed swings/chambers. Trying to smash shields is actually a bad idea vs. very high AGI shielders(~27+), as they can hit you in between a missed swing or if they force a glance.

2) You can bring more than one weapon. Fast shield smashing weapons are very cheap for 1h or 2h players, so you can bring something that's better than an axe vs. non-shielders like a Miaodao, since there seem to be a lot of 2h/shield-less pole users with the demise of the super-ranged meta.

I wouldn't be against having more slow, unbalanced large base damage weapons, they tend to be very satisfying on hits. The problem is it wouldn't make that much sense with the current polearm models within the ~115-140ish range unless you made all of the 2h weapons within the ~110+ range slower and beefier.

Another problem is that while I personally suck at manual blocking, the average skill/reflex level of people who have been playing for a while is high enough to duel to a standstill over several minutes using really fast weapons with really high WPF.