Author Topic: Battle map rotation overhaul  (Read 7130 times)

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Offline Teeth

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Battle map rotation overhaul
« on: August 04, 2014, 05:15:16 pm »
+18
Battle map rotation overhaul



Apparently the battle map rotation is shit again and I decided to get the community to provide the input for fixing it. Most likely a fool's errand as map preferences are insanely diffused, but in any case I won't have to shoulder the blame alone. This thread will be open for input for about two weeks or longer if you guys are lazy, after which I will commit the new map rotation. Battle rotations are shared between NA and EU so wherever you're from, please provide input.

Current map rotation
(click to show/hide)

I understand that many of you won't exactly know what name fits to what map, but apparently map names have been fixed now, so if you press QMD when playing a map, it will show you the correct name. Please note that QMU and QMD serve no other function whatsoever, basically since forever, and are not valid ways of providing input.



How you can help

Below are some guidelines to do suggestions for the map rotation. Follow these to provide specific and clear input. Saying add better maps does not help. Saying add good old maps does not help. Saying remove town maps does not help. I will not let this thread turn into a festering shit-hole and I will aggressively moderate it. Please follow the instructions below so you can provide helpful and clear input that I can use. Any post that does not follow these guidelines or comments on a pending change, will be removed.

You can fill this thread with as much shit as you want though. I need it to stay up.
http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/battle-map-rotation-overhaul-community-input-required!/new/#new

Removing a map
(click to show/hide)

Adding a new map
(click to show/hide)

Adding a map that has been in the rotation during the past two years
(click to show/hide)

Adding Native village maps
(click to show/hide)

Adjusting a map
(click to show/hide)

Please upvote or downvote suggestions made by players if you agree or disagree with their proposed change.



Approved changes

These are changes I am currently planning to do. All of these are open for discussion, so if you heavily disagree, speak up with clear arguments why a change should not happen. I'll try to add screenshots of the maps as much as I can, so everybody understands what the maps are.

To remove
(click to show/hide)

To add
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To adjust
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 02:19:23 pm by Teeth »

Offline Teeth

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Re: Battle map rotation overhaul
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2014, 05:15:26 pm »
0
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Offline Algarn

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Re: Battle map rotation overhaul
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2014, 06:16:19 pm »
+4
Remove the map called "Screaming trees".  Don't got any screen shot, but it's the one with a dense forest, with a central tree, encircled by rocks.

This map is a true clusterfuck, both for archers and cavs, and I hope it's enough to get it removed.

EDIT : For those who don't see which map I'm talking about, here is a screen, which shows you a map (couldn't take it in spec mode).
(click to show/hide)

Offline Molly

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Re: Battle map rotation overhaul
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2014, 12:33:27 am »
0
A comeback of some of the 2010/11 maps would be nice...
I don't know names and describing would take up too much space and time but I'm sure you remember some of them.
They don't have to be really well made or anything, I'm sure nostalgia will work its magic anywa. :D
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Offline Unwilling_Villain

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Re: Battle map rotation overhaul
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2014, 02:35:57 am »
+3
Remove Pueblo Village if it is still there.

Add Arena.

Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Battle map rotation overhaul
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2014, 05:53:51 pm »
+3
All I'm saying about the "enclosed" maps is that if we're going to continue playing siege maps on the battle server, maybe one or two actual battle maps (aka random plains, no buildings) would be able to be played as well.  The maps where you have to use terrain and geography only as tactics, not able to camp behind buildings, were always the most fun to play, and the only maps where you actually see people relying on their teammates to survive and win. 

If we have to put up with 50% of the maps being "town/castle" siege style maps, then maybe we could play 1 or 2 random plains in the map list. 
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Offline GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER

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Re: Battle map rotation overhaul
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2014, 06:32:43 pm »
+11
Please don't re-add Native Village. It is unbalanced, archers and crossbowmen just get on the roofs and then one or two fatty plate men can guard the roofs and that team has it in the bag. It's just not a very fun map, the dynamic is pretty much the same every time. It's also a horrible map for cavalry, and the attacking team inevitably splits up and enters the village in three different ways because people don't work together, leading the attacking team to be even more decimated. I've already played that map so many times in this mod, and I never enjoyed it before.

I would also say don't add Sandi Boush, but that is only because if I were to see that picture and be asked to guess which server it was getting added to, I would have said NA_2 not NA_1.

Happy to see you're removing Prison Riot, that map is just an inevitable wait to see which players finally realize the fight is happening in the middle. The room with the water and the platforms is really, really lame. Nobody likes being effortlessly nudged to their death with a no damage hit by a 30-str polearm who shoots you for 10 feet.

Screaming Trees is fun as a challenge (I'm cavalry), but it is objectively the biggest clusterfuck map on the rotation. I don't know if I would want it removed, or kept on. I feel pretty ambivalent about it. It gives pretty much all classes a fair cut, teams have to stick together to win, every class has to be using high levels of awareness to not get piked by the guy hiding behind the tree, or knifed in the back by the peasant running behind you as you play archer. The downside would be the FPS drop for people whos computers are basically toasters with a hard drive added, the frustration of getting ganked and not being able to see where your team is, the frustration of CONSTANTLY having to avoid getting reared on rocks, trees, logs, etc

Also remove whatever the fuck this map is: you literally cannot play cavalry on it because the two sets of stairs connecting the upper and lower portions of the map cannot be ridden up. Also the team on the lower set of the map always goes directly to their left and up the first set of stairs, charging the upper teams spawn, because thats their closest route to the enemy. The top team however always fucking splits up, so half of them run headfirst into the full bottom team and get fucking destroyed, and the other half go to the left and fuck around for about 1-1.5 minutes, until it is their turn to also get fought by the entire bottom team. It's shit. visitors can't see pics , please register or login


I don't know its name fucking deal with it.

Offline Tydeus

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Re: Battle map rotation overhaul
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2014, 05:13:03 pm »
+2
Horseshoe Canyon - Remove it because it causes severe 'lag' issues. I get 120 fps on it and it feels like I have 20. Every time it comes up in rotation people complain about it.
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Re: Battle map rotation overhaul
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2014, 08:45:12 pm »
+2
Even though Screaming Trees has so much foliage, that's one of the reasons why I would say it's well balanced for each class. Taking that away will do one of two things, turn it into a cav/ranged map or cause team stomps by balancing all the ranged on one team (which makes them lose because the map is so small.)
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Offline Nordwolf

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Re: Battle map rotation overhaul
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2014, 02:49:33 am »
+1
Some links I gathered while going through the old map submission thread, maybe I'm unaware of some issues with them, but they don't look worse then the current maps.

http://forum.melee.org/scene-editing/battle-map-submissions-for-official-servers/msg201960/#msg201960 - Don't remember playing it, looks nice.
http://forum.melee.org/scene-editing/battle-map-rhodok-city/ - Same
http://forum.melee.org/scene-editing/battle-map-submissions-for-official-servers/msg705927/#msg705927 - I haven't ever seen this map on servers, don't see anything wrong with it, the ground is not too steep and has enough space to maneuver. Maybe not too cav friendly, but not more then many maps like Nord Town and such.
http://forum.melee.org/scene-editing/battle-map-submissions-for-official-servers/msg728601/#msg728601 << Homestead - haven't played it either, I've seen many maps like this in Vikingr and I liked them.

http://forum.melee.org/scene-editing/battle-map-submissions-for-official-servers/msg523915/#msg523915 << Attack on Caravan - I like how this map plays, it doesn't favour any class and has some nice tactics to it. You either go into intense melee at the bridge, go to the right of the map around the lake or try camping your side. For cav it also has a nice route on the left. Overally I only have good memories associated with it.
http://forum.melee.org/scene-editing/battle-map-submissions-for-official-servers/msg550208/#msg550208 - It may seem as a not the best map because of the bridge, but I like it because it has an intense melee-clash place near the bridge and all other classes have something to do too. Because bridge is large enough noone is trying to camp either side of it most of the time.


Remove/Edit:
Blue Forest - map pace encourages camping warfare with two *almost* opposing hills and a long bridge on top. If you're infantry you're usually frustrated because there is almost zero coverage from archers and cavalry, the only spot is the bridge, which isn't a very fun place to fight on.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2875/13230710353_1cb2c28539_b.jpg

Burning of the ships - not a very good pace, no defined areas of combat, very unbalanced flag positions. https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3730/13231016574_28a36ae811_b.jpg

Some other feedback:
I really like Pueblo village even though I completely understand that it's not suited for cavalry. I love it either as an archer and as infantry, so once in a while cav can dismount imo :)

Screaming trees - I personally don't like playing this as infantry and ranged, but I absolutely love it as cavalry. I think what needs to be done is a bit of replanning of the map to remove circling and add more cover to footmen. Move the central stoney part to the side of the map, add more stone and cover there, maybe a bit of a terrain elevation/division. Also remove some trees around the stones to ephasis the feeling of it being somehow special and add more view to the more inf friendly part of the map.

Down by the river - I like this map, don't see anything wrong with it. Well I may be a bit biased towards cavalry on this one, but I played it with both infantry and archery and I liked it.

Trouble in the neighbourhood - remove all the square walls in the middle and leave the trees, and it will be great imo. Otherwise yes, remove it.
Also +1 to native village, great map and nowhere near unbalanced, just one small opinion - move in-village spawns just a little bit away closer to the wall so the teams have the same access to the outer roofs.

I may add more feedback in the future, but for now this's what I have.

Offline Tydeus

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Re: Battle map rotation overhaul
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2014, 05:42:33 pm »
+2
Maaseutu 2: Removed/Edited spawns. The first minute of the round has to be spent running to meet the other team. This causes flags often spawn much earlier than they should (the lack of combat spawns flags).
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Battle map rotation overhaul
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2014, 06:28:38 pm »
+4
Rivendell - one team spawns on the high ground, the other spawns on the low ground.  The high ground is a top a pretty decent sized cliff and can just reign down ranged on the people below, it's a huge tactical advantage and makes the map lopsided (in theory at least). 
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Re: Battle map rotation overhaul
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2014, 03:11:16 am »
+1
Horseshoe Canyon - Remove it because it causes severe 'lag' issues. I get 120 fps on it and it feels like I have 20. Every time it comes up in rotation people complain about it.

This map gives me awful lag every time. It's a nice layout and I like the design, but it makes crpg throw a hissy fit to the point that everyone lags (even people with godly PCs).

Also I like Down by the River. I don't understand why people dislike it. Teams spawn on balanced ground, nice variation of thick forest/open areas and a few unique pieces of terrain here and there. It is visually pleasing as well. Rounds don't always play out the same way, there are multiple routes for both teams.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 03:14:39 am by WITCHCRAFT »
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Re: Battle map rotation overhaul
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2014, 08:57:16 am »
0
Less siege maps, more battle maps plz.  :)

Also currently i feels like 93% of the map rotation is inf blob vs blob maps and 7% is balanced maps, that favors all classes an dont promote blob vs blob gameplay.

Fighting in 2 huge gang bang squads can be fun at times, but not all the freakin time.

Dont know the names of the maps, so can get you a list, but you know what where im going with this.

PS: Like your removal of the cirkel special olympics map!!  :wink:
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline Teeth

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Re: Battle map rotation overhaul
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2014, 09:07:02 am »
0
Well, the point is that this thread will be running for a while, so if you come accross one of those maps you'd rather not play, you press QMD to find out the map name and post a suggestion for removal here.