Author Topic: Any other NA Wars?  (Read 14551 times)

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Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: not really sorry
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2014, 01:08:58 am »
+1

How else are the PRIVATE prisons in the US supposed to make money if they can't lock up the "rich people who have drugs" for long periods of time to mooch off of them?

Come on, THINK OF THE PRISON GUARDS! They won't have jobs if we decriminalize drugs. We NEED a Prison-Industrial Society.
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Offline Sandersson Jankins

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Re: not really sorry
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2014, 02:03:11 am »
+2
(click to show/hide)

tl;dr: If you're not free to ingest any substance that you please, regardless of the consequences to yourself, the law preventing it is unjust. People desperate enough to improve how they feel to regularly ingest strong opiates like heroin or repeatedly abuse stimulants like methamphetamine will not be deterred by laws. A law put in place "for one's own good" is nearly always unjust.

(Only law of that nature that I agree with are seatbelt/helmet laws on public roads. The roads are owned and paid for [through taxes of course] by the local/state/federal government. They have authority to enforce reasonable demands considering that you are willfully using their infastructure, as well as the fact that the local/state/federal government will be expending extra man-hours and money to scrape your ass off the pavement if you're flung half a football field from your vehicle through the windshield)
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Offline Malaclypse

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Re: Any other NA Wars?
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2014, 02:44:23 am »
0
you must be on drugs for that much typing

At the time, no haha.... soon, maybe- but come on, five paragraphs speaking about something that matters to you?  That's nothin' man, twenty minutes of my time that I didn't spend jackin' it, zoning out, playing video games, ya goofball bale. I think about it all the time, speak about it with anyone even remotely interested, and am working on how to word letters (in before party bus at my house) to my representatives, considering methods of finding like-minded individuals near me and organizing. I'm passionate about the issue both as someone whose life has been enriched by my experiences with psychedelics despite the distance of those experiences from this present moment and as someone who is concerned for civil liberties in the country in which I am a citizen =)
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Offline Keshian

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Re: not really sorry
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2014, 04:35:00 am »
-2
You're right, it has nothing to do with Strategus, but it's still a war taking place in North America, haha. If meth, heroin, and cocaine were outlawed due purely to harm reduction (considering the study published in 2010 in The Lancet, Drug harms in the UK: a multicriteria decision analysis, for one), then alcohol and tobacco would be illegal too. Clearly that's not the case. If we're considering potential harm to self and others, the top five substances, almost always in this order, are: alcohol, heroin, crack form of cocaine, methamphetamine, cocaine (then tobacco). Heroin/meth/crack/coke are more likely to cause harm to the user than alcohol, but alcohol is pretty close and is much more likely to cause harm to others due to the use of it. Even considering that the aforementioned study is affected by the case of alcohol and tobaccos legality, one must admit that it is likely more of a danger or at least an equal danger to cannabis, and some schedule I substances are safer than either.

Still, even making the more heinous of substances illegal causes more harm than good by way of making criminals out of citizens rather than educating them and allowing them to make their own informed choices as we have done with alcohol and tobacco. A lack of regulation by making substances criminal also paves the way for untaxed money to be made by distributors who may adulterate their products, causing further chances for harm to users, who are going to use whether or not said substances are illegal- legality doesn't effect the percentage of users in a population in a major way in the long run, from what we've seen in countries and areas that have decrminalized substances previously illegal. For the record, I've never done meth, heroin, cocaine, and I never would due to their addictive qualities and potential detriments to health- this is also why I typically refrain from alcohol. I can and do agree that these substances, at least, have a high chance for destruction and harm.

In terms of potential harm to self and other, some of the highest scheduled drugs in America, the psychedelic substances such as psilocybin (found in many species of mushrooms) and LSD are ironically some of the safest for consumption- low chance for physical damage, low chance for overdose, low chance for lasting negative effects, extremely low chance for addiction, do some research and see for yourself. They were outlawed under the Nixon administration due to "cultural hysteria" and propaganda against them. Moreover, this was intimately tied to social activism- many activists were using these substances, and could not be imprisoned for their activism. Maybe I'm just cynical. It's a joke that they're Schedule I (No benefits; no medical applications- there was not enough information to claim this at the time of their scheduling, but can now be said to be an outright lie as around the world more and more applications and potential applications are being discovered and explored).

What's more, unlike alcohol prohibition, no amendment was made to the constitution in their case. Pretty ridiculous, man, you've got to admit, that a person can go to prison for a longer sentence than a murderer or rapist for possessing an amount of mushrooms not even suitable for a psychedelic experience. You can get five years in prison for having a gram (there are some places, thankfully, where they'll just fine you and confiscate it- this also depends on the officer, of course), which, on average, will only have the effect of improving visual acuity. That is utterly fucked up. Whether or not you would ever deign to use these substances, you have to admit that there is a level of absurdity in the system we have arranged here. Imagine if you could be sent to prison for years for the possession of a thimble full of ginger (in relation to sub-psychedelic amounts of substances this is an easy comparison).

Some people prefer meditation to reach visionary states, and for some, with practice, they achieve it- others prefer to ingest a fungus readily metabolized by our bodies to reach visionary states, and, with forty minutes of waiting, they achieve it. Moreover, the practice of meditation is, in my own experience (the last of which was over five years ago, now) as well as the experience of others who have actually experimented with these substances in a respectful manner, only enhanced by the introduction of compounds such as mescaline, psilocybin, LSD and salvinorin a. If I, as an informed adult citizen of the United States of America, do not have the right to alter my consciousness as I see fit- knowing well the risks and benefits, as anyone who consumes alcohol or, hell, drives a vehicle does- then the game isn't worth the candle, and it opens the door for a further violations of our collective civil liberties.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I am extremely passionate about this, and feel that a large portion of the population is either uninformed or misinformed when it comes to mind altering substances. At the very least we need to seriously consider decriminalization, because the only people who truly benefit from illegal substances by virtue of their being illegal (important to note) are prison operators, law enforcement (in terms of federal funding- Minnesota police fought tooth and nail to keep medical marijuana illegal here in plant form just recently), and dealers/crime syndicates/cartels.

Sorry, started trying to read, but it really did become tl:dr and start was very very dry with a heavy bias.  Sorry.
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Offline Sandersson Jankins

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Re: not really sorry
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2014, 07:20:33 am »
+2
Sorry, started trying to read, but it really did become tl:dr and start was very very dry with a heavy bias.  Sorry.

words are hard please help

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Offline Rhalzo

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Re: not really sorry
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2014, 11:08:54 pm »
0
Sorry, started trying to read, but it really did become tl:dr and start was very very dry with a heavy bias. Sorry.

He took time to write all of that; if you aren't going to put time into reading it and replying in a similar fashion then just don't even reply. There is really no point. It doesn't matter if you don't agree with him. People don't agree with most stuff you post on these forums but they (some people) still give your posts the time it takes to read them. Even if your posts have an even heavier bias than Mala's post.

Plus, how hard is it actually read 6 paragraphs? It's like a page in a book.
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Offline Keshian

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Re: not really sorry
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2014, 03:17:02 am »
-2
He took time to write all of that; if you aren't going to put time into reading it and replying in a similar fashion then just don't even reply. There is really no point. It doesn't matter if you don't agree with him. People don't agree with most stuff you post on these forums but they (some people) still give your posts the time it takes to read them. Even if your posts have an even heavier bias than Mala's post.

Plus, how hard is it actually read 6 paragraphs? It's like a page in a book.

Sorry, I don't enjoy random, hundreds of words long OP ED political pieces with a biased slant in a video game forum.  Its same reason I ignore popular news on tv or pundits.  I don't know why they feel its necessary to try and get people to think like them when it comes to politics or religion, as if it somehow validates their opinion and self-identity if they can brainwash others to think like them, but I have no taste for being a part of it.

Several hundred words from his perspective on a giant topic like drugs is destined to be biased simply by its very short nature of what gets included.  I know if the roles were reversed you would still back him, so I don't really put much weight on your opinion in the matter.
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Offline Sandersson Jankins

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Re: not really sorry
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2014, 03:34:38 am »
+4
Sorry, I don't enjoy random, hundreds of words long OP ED political pieces with a biased slant in a video game forum.  Its same reason I ignore popular news on tv or pundits.  I don't know why they feel its necessary to try and get people to think like them when it comes to politics or religion, as if it somehow validates their opinion and self-identity if they can brainwash others to think like them, but I have no taste for being a part of it.

Several hundred words from his perspective on a giant topic like drugs is destined to be biased simply by its very short nature of what gets included.  I know if the roles were reversed you would still back him, so I don't really put much weight on your opinion in the matter.

lol

Hundred of words? HUNDREDS? Holy fucking shit, he wrote more than two sentences on something so he's clearly very biased!

Why would you even reply, then? Good lord, you're an insufferable piece of shit on the internet. Still, I applaud you for making your first post in months that didn't include at least several spelling, syntax, or seemingly dyslexic-inspired errors that make it seem like you're pounding away at your keyboard like an infuriated chimp. I really didn't think you had it in you, m8.
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Offline Rhalzo

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Re: not really sorry
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2014, 04:04:16 am »
0
Sorry, I don't enjoy random, hundreds of words long OP ED political pieces with a biased slant in a video game forum.  Its same reason I ignore popular news on tv or pundits.  I don't know why they feel its necessary to try and get people to think like them when it comes to politics or religion, as if it somehow validates their opinion and self-identity if they can brainwash others to think like them, but I have no taste for being a part of it.

Several hundred words from his perspective on a giant topic like drugs is destined to be biased simply by its very short nature of what gets included.  I know if the roles were reversed you would still back him, so I don't really put much weight on your opinion in the matter.

I never said his piece of writing wasn't biased. I said most of your posts in the past have been more heavily biased than Mala's post. If you really read his words, you'd see that he isn't trying to "brainwash others," but is instead addressing a subject that was previously mentioned. It's a subject he is very passionate about, which leads to there be a lot of words that you didn't even take the time to read. At least that's what you said.

If the roles were reversed and you wrote a bunch of words on something you are passionate about then I would applaud you and give you an almighty +1. In that situation, Mala wouldn't reply with one sentence about not reading it because he would have read the shit out of that and given you at least a paragraph response. Then I wouldn't really be backing a single person as you would both get a +1 for doing a great job.
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Offline Legs

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Re: Any other NA Wars?
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2014, 04:21:16 am »
+3
I actually wrote a proper essay on drugs when I was in college, researched all kinds of statistics and whatnot. One of my conclusions was that illegal drugs are less less harmful and less addictive on average than many legal drugs like alcohol, tobacco, and prescription painkillers. Hallucinogens in particular. They're not very harmful physically and apparently tolerance builds up so quickly that regular use isn't practical. There's some risk of inducing mental illness in certain people but generally they're very safe, and can actually have positive, therapeutic effects. Even the classic "drugs are bad" drug heroin is nowhere near as dangerous as most people think. I know a few people that use heroin and other recreational drugs. They're normal everyday people with jobs and responsibilities and shit, weekend warriors who just like to get high once in a while. Most hard drug users are the same. Junkies are a minority. I don't use heroin because I don't like opiates. When I was younger I injured one of my knees longjumping (TRACK & FIELD TEAM CAPTAIN 2008-2009) and had to get surgery. While recovering I was prescribed some strong painkillers and ended up becoming addicted, because oh shit it's kind of like using heroin twice a day. That's what causes the danger of addiction - frequent, regular use. It's the same for heroin. If you use it responsibly it's actually pretty safe. Honestly the whole war on drugs and dissemination of propaganda is motivated more by financial gain than protecting the public. Police justifying inflated budgets, targets for HARD ON CRIME! politicians, and schmucks to fill up private for-profit prisons. Like Malaclypse mentioned it was also a good excuse for police that wanted to arrest protesters back in the day. Of course that's not to say that it doesn't also protect the public to some extent, because there are a lot of irresponsible people out there that need Big Brother to make their choices for them. Regardless, like most things in politics when it comes to drugs everyone's full of strongly held opinions that they absolutely refuse to give up no matter what so discussion is usually totally fucking pointless.

Anyway tl;dr drugs are kind of bad sometimes but not really, also holy shit this thread is so far off topic I'm surprised that you're not being muted en-masse.
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Offline imisshotmail

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Re: Any other NA Wars?
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2014, 04:29:27 am »
+5
every one in this last page: Stop Posting

Offline Bryggan

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Re: Any other NA Wars?
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2014, 04:48:48 am »
0
Um, having ignored all the off topic crap that should only be discussed over beers in a pub with your friends when suitably drunk, I am wondering about the unwarlike factions.  Seeing unarmed armies carrying 5000 crates makes me wonder how much silver these guys have.

I wish renown actually got you something, like higher troop caps such as is in the single player.  Then all these hoarders of silver would have shiny armies of 200 or so, while us real men would have 2000 or so armed troops.  Also their caravans would either have to carry a lot less goods or move very, very slowly- which would be wonderful for independent raiders.

But I have a feeling that the devs won't take time out of their current project to help poor old strat.

Offline Keshian

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Re: not really sorry
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2014, 07:20:20 am »
0
lol

Hundred of words? HUNDREDS? Holy fucking shit, he wrote more than two sentences on something so he's clearly very biased!

Why would you even reply, then? Good lord, you're an insufferable piece of shit on the internet. Still, I applaud you for making your first post in months that didn't include at least several spelling, syntax, or seemingly dyslexic-inspired errors that make it seem like you're pounding away at your keyboard like an infuriated chimp. I really didn't think you had it in you, m8.

lol UMADBRO

Seriously, you sound like you are frothing at the mouth.  Not really that big a deal, you should calm down or you'll get another ulcer.



And Rhalzo - no, no, you really wouldn't if I wrote something like that.

Legs - the last girl I dated her first boyfriend died of a heroin overdose.  I know others who have utterly destroyed their lives in their addiction to it.  People who literally snorted their entire life savings with cocaine because they just can't stop using. 

Hearing some spoiled college-educated kid (malaclypse, not you legs) recite statistics for why drugs are good and should be legal, is a lot like hearing some teetotaler get in front of an AA meeting and tell them how bad alcohol is for them and how easy it is not to drink.  So yeah biased.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 07:26:15 am by Keshian »
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Offline GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER

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Re: Any other NA Wars?
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2014, 07:49:01 am »
+4
fucking plebs

Offline imisshotmail

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Re: not really sorry
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2014, 09:51:21 am »
0
lol UMADBRO
Legs - the last girl I dated her first boyfriend died of a heroin overdose.  I know others who have utterly destroyed their lives in their addiction to it.  People who literally snorted their entire life savings with cocaine because they just can't stop using. 

Hearing some spoiled college-educated kid (malaclypse, not you legs) recite statistics for why drugs are good and should be legal, is a lot like hearing some teetotaler get in front of an AA meeting and tell them how bad alcohol is for them and how easy it is not to drink.  So yeah biased.

this is a really good and right post lol.

actually amazed someone in cRPG has a non awful opinion on something for once.