Flambard stats

[Angellore]

First of all, thank you for adding new weapons to the game, it gives a bit of freshness to it (which is always good thing).

I wanted to try some of new stuff, and since I'm playing 2h alt recently, my choice went to Flambard.
Let's look at it's stats first:

Flambard
weight: 2.5
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 95
weapon length: 117
thrust damage: 20 pierce
swing damage: 40 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Secondary Mode

I have to say, this weapon is completely unused on EU_1. I know it's new, but there is simply no reason to loom it.

Let's compare it to Claymore, one of my favourite 2h sword in game:

Highland Claymore
weight: 3 [+0.5]
difficulty: 16
speed rating: 93 [-2]
weapon length: 117
thrust damage: 22 pierce [+2]
swing damage: 43 cut [+3]
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Secondary Mode

Claymore is heavier, does much more damage (3 swing, 2 thrust) and got 2 speed less with same length (both are medium-length 2h swords).

Now, let's compare it to something longer:

Sword of War
weight: 3 [+0.5]
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 94 [-1]
weapon length: 121 [+4]
thrust damage: 23 pierce [+3]
swing damage: 40 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Secondary Mode

Sword of War is heavier, longer, has 3 more thrust damage and just 1 speed less than Flambard.

Flambard at the moment is just pretty bad choice comparing to other swords, and I think that's main reason why no one uses it. Just 20 thrust damage makes it one of the worst stabbing sword in game. It's swing also isn't any good (German Greatsword, which in general has weak swing damage, has just 1 swing damage less than Flambard, but 7 thrust damage more).

As I understand, you want to keep this sword with low stab damage, but 2 less than Claymore, 3 less than Sword of War, even 3 less than Longsword seems to be a bit too much. My suggestion is to give it +1 swing and +1 thrust damage for start, and see how it will work out.
So final stats will look like:

Flambard
weight: 2.5
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 95
weapon length: 117
thrust damage: 21 pierce thrust damage: 20 pierce
swing damage: 41 cut swing damage: 40 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Secondary Mode

It will still be bad stabbing sword, but it's stab should be much more usable than it is now. Also, 41 damage will give it some swing damage advantage over Sword of War. It will still lack length, weight and thrust damage comparing to Sword of War, but it will have +1 swing damage and +1 speed at least.
Maybe after those changes we will see more Flambards in game. I know it took some effort to put this weapon into the game in first place, so it will be a shame to waste it just because of poor stats .

[Panos_]

Yes please, buff all 2h swords a bit.
They deserve it.

Totally not a sarcastic post by me.

[Angellore]

I'm talking about internal 2h swords balance, not about 2h class balance Panos. You didn't read original post it seems .

[Panos_]

I did my friend, but IMO all 2handers deserve a huge buff.

[Elindor]

...IMO all 2handers deserve a huge buff.

Yes and polearms too! 

[MURDERTRON]

Clearly the flambard is just a middle of the road weapon, but it's price is just inflated due to the new item and style tax.

[Pentecost]

The Flambard is actually reasonably popular on NA. I have no idea why EU players would ignore it, especially given how much they love all of the gigantic 2hs like the Danish and Miaodao.

In any case, something you happened to overlook in your appraisal of the Flambard is that it has special (read: much better) modifiers for when you halfsword it. Every other 2h loses 2 speed and 6 swing damage to gain 6 thrust damage; the Flambard on the other hand loses no speed and only 2 swing damage to gain the same 6 thrust damage. This means that at +3, it has a 41 cut swing with a 28 pierce thrust at 95 speed in halfsword mode. Those are easily the best halfsword stats in the game, on top of what is already a very good weapon in its primary mode.

Basically, it sacrifices a little bit of power to become much more versatile than most of the other weapons in its category. It might not be the first pick of your typical Kuyak + Heavy Gauntlets + Vaegir War Mask minmaxer who has 180 2h wpf and 0 in other categories, but that guy has the other options you listed available.

[Angellore]

The Flambard is actually reasonably popular on NA. I have no idea why EU players would ignore it, especially given how much they love all of the gigantic 2hs like the Danish and Miaodao.

I think the answer is in original post - it has just pretty bad "main" stats comparing to other top 2h. If I can choose 1 speed OR 3 thrust damage, 4 length and 0.5 kg more, I would surely go for second option - 1 speed isn't that much, and yes you can feel it, but just 1 speed is less important for me than 3 damage, not even mentioning other advantages which Sword of War has. Main problem of Flambard is very low thrust damage, just 20 pierce glances a lot against medium and heavy armors (far most players on EU side uses those armors).
On EU side, 2h chars mainly uses Miaodao, Longsword, Greatsword, Highland Claymore, Sword of War, German Greatsword and Danish Greatsword. Like 95% of 2h players has one of these sword in hands (which is still better than a year ago when like 80% of players were using just Danish and German). I don't know about NA side, but I heard almost every 2h uses Longsword/Heavy Bastard Sword there .

In any case, something you happened to overlook in your appraisal of the Flambard is that it has special (read: much better) modifiers for when you halfsword it. Every other 2h loses 2 speed and 6 swing damage to gain 6 thrust damage; the Flambard on the other hand loses no speed and only 2 swing damage to gain the same 6 thrust damage. This means that at +3, it has a 41 cut swing with a 28 pierce thrust at 95 speed in halfsword mode. Those are easily the best halfsword stats in the game, on top of what is already a very good weapon in its primary mode.

Well, I don't look at halfswording, because it uses polearm wpf. Any weapon with just 1 wpf is slow and makes pretty bad damage, bounces a lot. So for me, this option is useless, unless you have split proficiencies between 2h and pole (I don't see any logical reason to do this). I have 2 alts - one is 2h and the other polearmer. But on polearmer char, I will use polearm weapons - any 2h sword in polearm mode is very bad comparing to dedicated pole weapon, so why using 2h sword as polearmer it in first place?

Basically, it sacrifices a little bit of power to become much more versatile than most of the other weapons in its category. It might not be the first pick of your typical Kuyak + Heavy Gauntlets + Vaegir War Mask minmaxer who has 180 2h wpf and 0 in other categories, but that guy has the other options you listed available.

I'm maxing everything as well . If I have an option to use something clearly worse or something clearly better, then I will go for better option. That was biggest problem with items like Kuyak, earlier Danish Greatsword (before nerf) and so on. Those were best options, so people were using it, I don't see anything wrong with that. It's devs job to keep items balanced or at least not being clearly worse/better than other.

I know I don't have full view on this being on EU side, and I know most people (including me) maxing everything here, but for me it's just a shame to see items added, which are later completely unused on our servers. It's same problem with few other items, like eg. Eastern Horse - last time I saw this horse in game was when devs added it and people wanted to check how it looks. Why adding something, to be completely unused later, just because someone can't balance stats well - it's like time and resources wasted for nothing.
I know there are people, who choses items by how they look like, not by their stats - but why those people should be in disadvantage compared to mini-maxers? With fully balanced items (I know this is pretty much unachievable), there would be no mini-maxing, because every item would be very good choice.

[Taser]

Yes and polearms too!

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Phew]

This means that at +3, it has a 41 cut swing with a 28 pierce thrust at 95 speed in halfsword mode. Those are easily the best halfsword stats in the game, on top of what is already a very good weapon in its primary mode.

The best Halfsword is still a crappy polearm. For any application other than hacking naked peasants, the Bec will do much more damage, with 3cm better reach and a knockdown secondary.

The only reason to halfsword that I can think of is a quick switch to rear a horse, or maybe in a tight corridor to surprise someone with a stab. Ignoring pure style purposes, obviously.

[//saxon]

well i switched to a +3 flambard from a +3 german greatsword when it first got implemented and i have to say

the stats are a lie trust me.

sadly it wasn't mine, and i had to give it back but my +3 Bar mace is magical so im not arsed.