Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Xant]

Must have been  in his long public interview, I still didnt listen to it.

Yeah, better to post retarded shit on forums about it pretending to know what's happening rather than actually look it up.

[DaveUKR]

Ironically enough, the retards who insult people who support Putin, are the ones who are on a witch hunt against "secret neo nazees" at this forum.    , clearly shows who`s the idiot/moron/stupid/lower iq.
 
I`d take Putin as a leader of my nation, every fucking day of the week. But since I am unlucky enough to be "ruled" by one of Merkel`s muppets, I can only feel jealous of Russian people.

Panos, you quite surprise me. Looks like you've completely messed up things in your head. With each post like that you move backwards in evolutionary scale.

(click to show/hide)

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If you had a leader of your nation like Putin, then Greece would be even worse 3rd world country than Russia. Because unlike Russia the only oil Greece can sell is an olive oil.

[Kafein]

Hold on, I just remembered another scandal made by the saints of taxing!!!


http://www.lepointinternational.com/it/politica/europa/550-the-submarine-deals-that-helped-sink-greece-.html


THANK YOU MERKEL, FOR LENDING US MONEY, WITH HIGH INTEREST, SO WE CAN BUY BROKEN SUBMARINES FROM YOUR COUNTRY!!! 


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/apr/19/greece-military-spending-debt-crisis


and in case you are dumb enough to understand simple facts.

Germany/France loan money to Greece with high interest ---> Greece buys weapons from Germany and France.

Muppets everywhere..

You should probably look at the astronomical defense spending before 2008 and ask yourself why did Greece feel the need to do that instead of sanitizing its budget while it had the opportunity. Oh and by the way, tensions with Turkey were on the rise back then.

Quick witty joke: (Xant not allowed!)

EU french media on maidan: brave citizen fight peacefully to overthrow corrupt and represive ukraine government, to form new legitimate one.

EU french media on eastern ukraine: ukraine government sending soldiers to retake controls of the cities that fell to the pro-kremlin terrorists.


Word for word 

No that's not word for word. Maidan happened and Yanukovich took a trip to Russia on his own. Maybe he was feeling his mansion had not enough guards to be safe. Everybody but him stayed. That's not a coup, not even a revolution.

I've also heard that russian schools are being converted in anti-terrorist cells and metal detector - x-ray - armed guards - walls + barbed wires to be added to all of them to make sure all kids are not inside enemy.
I've also heard russian are preparing invasion and heating up missile systems, with infrared mapping as proof.
I've also heard that russian are organizing trips to Ukraine to protest in the cities and that near to no native are participating.


If its not to be put in the "fake" category, I think yours and my informations still need some non-EU refining.

Let's just throw our critical thinking out of the window and call every bit of information as equally dubious, right ?

Ironically enough, the retards who insult people who support Putin, are the ones who are on a witch hunt against "secret neo nazees" at this forum.    , clearly shows who`s the idiot/moron/stupid/lower iq.
 
I`d take Putin as a leader of my nation, every fucking day of the week. But since I am unlucky enough to be "ruled" by one of Merkel`s muppets, I can only feel jealous of Russian people.

Where's the irony ? Fascists and nationalists together, makes sense to me, and history seems to agree.

[Butan]

Yeah, better to post retarded shit on forums about it pretending to know what's happening rather than actually look it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_sharpshooter_fallacy
Dont hesitate to look into linked articles, you may learn a lot on yourself

Let's just throw our critical thinking out of the window and call every bit of information as equally dubious, right ?

In this war of propaganda, critical thinking is presuming the bits of information are dubious.

If you're asking if they are "equally" dubious, you have already fell into it.

[BIA_ivani4]

The new government in Ukraine, elected on the Maidan, already 2 months. I have a question: Why not declared impeachment to the President? No reason? There are many legal ways to find a reason for impeachment. Ukraine does not need the presence of a legitimate leader? Ukraine does not need the presence of a legitimate government?
The USA has approved granting of the loan Ukraine. But who today can issue loans? Who will sign the paper from the Ukrainian side? "The government of Maidan"? "De jure", the Bank may grant credit only to the government of Yanukovych. Any lawyer will argue that the guarantee (from the USA) do not apply to the loans which are issued by any Bank to the government Turchynov... Ukraine does not need loans?
May be someone benefits from the absence of a legitimate government in Ukraine? Later it will be possible to explain everything "not legitimate" activities and "not legitimate" orders, artists (from the government and governors of Ukraine) who " illegally usurped power".

[Xant]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_sharpshooter_fallacy
Dont hesitate to look into linked articles, you may learn a lot on yourself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_disability
Dont hesitate to look into linked articles, you may learn a lot on yourself

[Eugen]

The new government in Ukraine, elected on the Maidan, already 2 months. I have a question: Why not declared impeachment to the President? No reason? There are many legal ways to find a reason for impeachment. Ukraine does not need the presence of a legitimate leader? Ukraine does not need the presence of a legitimate government?
The USA has approved granting of the loan Ukraine. But who today can issue loans? Who will sign the paper from the Ukrainian side? "The government of Maidan"? "De jure", the Bank may grant credit only to the government of Yanukovych. Any lawyer will argue that the guarantee (from the USA) do not apply to the loans which are issued by any Bank to the government Turchynov... Ukraine does not need loans?
May be someone benefits from the absence of a legitimate government in Ukraine? Later it will be possible to explain everything "not legitimate" activities and "not legitimate" orders, artists (from the government and governors of Ukraine) who " illegally usurped power".

USA has dealt with many illegitime goverments, despots and criminals why not with peoples republic or anarchits?

Legitimacy is judged by the people of the country or is legitimacy just another fancy word like "terrorist collaboration" or "capitalist greed" or "communist complot" or "holy war" or "axis of evil"???

Free your mind.

EDIT:
Legitimacy is defined by rules. Unfortunatly there are various rulesets. Democratic legitimacy? Succession legitimacy? Historical legitimacy? Habitual legitimacy? Majoritys Legitimacy? Legitimacy of superior power? Religious legitimacy? Is Putins goverment really legitim? Is americas goverment really legitim? Is chechenias goverment really legitim? Is Erdogans goverment legitim? China?? Is the Dalai Lama legitim? Will egypts goverment be legitim? Is vatikans goverment really legitim? Is the lion legitim king of animals? Ask different people get different answers. Peoples revolution is the most legitim answer to failing goverment in my opinion. Becouse in my opinion the government should work for the people and not the other way around.

EDIT EDIT:
Its legitim when Putin speaks for himself, that he does not respect peoples revolution in ukraine. Its his opinion.

Its not legitim when he says: "Ucrains goverment is not legitim." becouse he cant generalize his opinion as being true for others.

EDIT EDIT EDIT:
For money a good lawyer can make any illegimate thing legitim or other way round. Now rate the worth of legitimacy. And then rate the worth of a lawyer.

[BIA_ivani4]

USA has dealt with many illegitime goverments, despots and criminals why not with peoples republic or anarchits?
Legitimacy is judged by the people of the country or is legitimacy just another fancy word like "terrorist collaboration" or "capitalist greed" or "communist complot" or "holy war" or "axis of evil"???
Free your mind.
EDIT:
Legitimacy is defined by rules. Unfortunatly there are various rulesets. Democratic legitimacy? Succession legitimacy? Historical legitimacy? Habitual legitimacy? Majoritys Legitimacy? Legitimacy of superior power? Religious legitimacy? Is Putins goverment really legitim? Is americas goverment really legitim? Is chechenias goverment really legitim? Is Erdogans goverment legitim? China?? Is the Dalai Lama legitim? Will egypts goverment be legitim? Is vatikans goverment really legitim? Is the lion legitim king of animals? Ask different people get different answers. Peoples revolution is the most legitim answer to failing goverment in my opinion. Becouse in my opinion the government should work for the people and not the other way around.
EDIT EDIT:
Its legitim when Putin speaks for himself, that he does not respect peoples revolution in ukraine. Its his opinion.
Its not legitim when he says: "Ucrains goverment is not legitim." becouse he cant generalize his opinion as being true for others.
EDIT EDIT EDIT:
For money a good lawyer can make any illegimate thing legitim or other way round. Now rate the worth of legitimacy. And then rate the worth of a lawyer.

Hmm...Here is the text of the Geneva agreements of Ukraine:

(click to show/hide)

Following is a joint statement on Thursday by the four parties — the United States, the European Union, Russia and Ukraine — meeting in Geneva to discuss the continuing conflict in Ukraine:
Нижеследующее является заключенным в четверг четырехсторонним совместным соглашением - США, ЕС, Россия и Украина - встретились в Женеве, чтобы обсудить продолжающийся конфликт на Украине.

The Geneva meeting on the situation in Ukraine agreed on initial concrete steps to de-escalate tensions and rеstоrе security for all citizens.
Встрече в Женеве по ситуации на Украине согласилась на следующие начальные шаги, по снижению напряжения и восстановления безопасности для всех граждан.

All sides must refrain from any violence, intimidation or provocative actions. The participants strongly condemned and rejected all expressions of extremism, racism and religious intolerance, including anti-Semitism.
Все стороны должны воздерживаться от применения насилия, угроз или провокационных действий. Участники решительно осуждают и отвергают все проявления экстремизма, расизма и религиозной нетерпимости, в том числе и антисемитизма.

All illegal armed groups must be disarmed; all illegally seized buildings must be returned to legitimate owners; all illegally occupied streets, squares and other public places in Ukrainian cities and towns must be vacated.
Все незаконные вооруженные группы должны быть разоружены; все незаконно захваченные здания должны быть возвращены законным собственникам; все незаконно занятые улицы, площади и остальные общественные места в украинских городах должны быть освобождены.

Amnesty will be granted to protesters and to those who have left buildings and other public places and surrendered weapons, with the exception of those found guilty of capital crimes.
Будут амнистированы протестующие и те, кто оставит здания, публичные места и сложит оружие, за исключением тех, кто виновен в тяжких преступлениях.

It was agreed that the O.S.C.E. Special Monitoring Mission should play a leading role in assisting Ukrainian authorities and local communities in the immediate implementation of these de-escalation measures wherever they are needed most, beginning in the coming days. The U.S., E.U. and Russia commit to support this mission, including by providing monitors.
Была достигнута договоренность, что миссия ОБСЕ будет играть решающую роль в помощи украинским руководителям и обществам в наискорейшем применении этих средств по де-эскалации, там где они будут нужны, начиная с ближайшего времени. США, ЕС и Россия будут поддерживать данную миссию, включая предоставление мониторинга.

The announced constitutional process will be inclusive, transparent and accountable. It will include the immediate establishment of a broad national dialogue, with outreach to all of Ukraine’s regions and political constituencies, and allow for the consideration of public comments and proposed amendments.
Провозглашенный конституционный процесс будет обширным, прозрачным и подотчетным. Он будет включать немедленное установление национального диалога, будет распространяться на все украинские регионы и политические партии, и позволять принимать во внимание комментарии и предложенные поправки.

The participants underlined the importance of economic and financial stability in Ukraine and would be ready to discuss additional support as the above steps are implemented.
Участники подчеркнули важность экономической и финансовой стабильности на Украине и будут готовы обсудить дополнительную поддержку при проведении данных шагов.

The term "illegal" is used many times. President Turchynov - "legal"? Maybe there is an official document, where it is written: "...the United Nations (the US, EU or Russia) recognizes the legality of the government Turchinov in Ukraine..."? If the President Turchynov is "not the legality" of the President, then all the Ministers, governors, bureaucrats (which Turchynov approved) - "illegal". Buildings and premises where the government works - "illegally seized buildings". All decisions and laws adopted after 23.02.14 - "illegal". The national Guard is "illegal armed groups"...
Remember, "...All illegal armed groups must be disarmed; all illegally seized buildings must be returned...".
There is not even attempt to impeach "legitimate" (according to the current Constitution of Ukraine) President Yanukovych and to make lawful the new President Turchynov. This legal illiteracy or what is it? Maybe it is a desire to show the world that " Ukraine does not have power. Ukraine cannot cope with the problems of their own. Ukraine is not controllable. Ukraine is unable to perform the Geneva agreements of Ukraine. Ukraine needs to introduce external management. On the territory of Ukraine should enter the troops of foreign powers?"

[Eugen]

There is not even attempt to impeach "legitimate" (according to the current Constitution of Ukraine) President Yanukovych and to make lawful the new President Turchynov. This legal illiteracy or what is it? Maybe it is a desire to show the world that " Ukraine does not have power. Ukraine cannot cope with the problems of their own. Ukraine is not controllable.

I dont know why Yanukovych didnt step back after first Maidan and kept out of politic after this. Maybe Ukraine already was to internally split already then or he has so much power that even a Maidan Revolution couldnt stop him to get president later. I dont know. Still I think its a political no go to let a president return who was dismantled by public before. I think this was the first big desaster. Then there was the invasion of crimea, the second step to desaster. I dont know who provoked what. But it seems Putin was no small part of that.

Ukraine is unable to perform the Geneva agreements of Ukraine. Ukraine needs to introduce external management. On the territory of Ukraine should enter the troops of foreign powers?"

Shure most people outside of Ukraine would think it be best to have Ukraine on its own, without external involment. I just dont know what the Ukrainians want. Do they want to split? Do they want to keep theire sovereignity? IDK!
I am just very shure that Russia, USA and EU want the best for theire economy each and not the best for Ukraine.

[Segd]

I've also heard that russian schools are being converted in anti-terrorist cells and metal detector - x-ray - armed guards - walls + barbed wires to be added to all of them to make sure all kids are not inside enemy.
I've also heard russian are preparing invasion and heating up missile systems, with infrared mapping as proof.
I've also heard that russian are organizing trips to Ukraine to protest in the cities and that near to no native are participating.

If its not to be put in the "fake" category, I think yours and my informations still need some non-EU refining.

Good for you. Our retarded parliament legislated this crap 3 days ago.
If your blog(LJ, fb, youtube, twitter, vkontakte & other sites or pages) has more than 3k views per day(search bots included) you have to officially register as a mass media. All mm responsibilities included.

There is even a meme name for our current parliament: mad printer.
prohibition of foreign adoption, anti-gay, anti-piracy, Internet censorship, rallies, noncommercial organizations, etc.

How many senators(upper parliament) voted for military intervention? - All
How many deputies(lower parliament) voted against Crimea annexation? - 1 (from 450) Other dudes now want him to be dismissed.

Cmon, ppl, do you really want to live in such country or have such leaders as Putin? Without gas & oil Russia would become another Bad Korea in few years.

[Kafein]

Hmm...Here is the text of the Geneva agreements of Ukraine:

(click to show/hide)

Following is a joint statement on Thursday by the four parties — the United States, the European Union, Russia and Ukraine — meeting in Geneva to discuss the continuing conflict in Ukraine:
Нижеследующее является заключенным в четверг четырехсторонним совместным соглашением - США, ЕС, Россия и Украина - встретились в Женеве, чтобы обсудить продолжающийся конфликт на Украине.

The Geneva meeting on the situation in Ukraine agreed on initial concrete steps to de-escalate tensions and rеstоrе security for all citizens.
Встрече в Женеве по ситуации на Украине согласилась на следующие начальные шаги, по снижению напряжения и восстановления безопасности для всех граждан.

All sides must refrain from any violence, intimidation or provocative actions. The participants strongly condemned and rejected all expressions of extremism, racism and religious intolerance, including anti-Semitism.
Все стороны должны воздерживаться от применения насилия, угроз или провокационных действий. Участники решительно осуждают и отвергают все проявления экстремизма, расизма и религиозной нетерпимости, в том числе и антисемитизма.

All illegal armed groups must be disarmed; all illegally seized buildings must be returned to legitimate owners; all illegally occupied streets, squares and other public places in Ukrainian cities and towns must be vacated.
Все незаконные вооруженные группы должны быть разоружены; все незаконно захваченные здания должны быть возвращены законным собственникам; все незаконно занятые улицы, площади и остальные общественные места в украинских городах должны быть освобождены.

Amnesty will be granted to protesters and to those who have left buildings and other public places and surrendered weapons, with the exception of those found guilty of capital crimes.
Будут амнистированы протестующие и те, кто оставит здания, публичные места и сложит оружие, за исключением тех, кто виновен в тяжких преступлениях.

It was agreed that the O.S.C.E. Special Monitoring Mission should play a leading role in assisting Ukrainian authorities and local communities in the immediate implementation of these de-escalation measures wherever they are needed most, beginning in the coming days. The U.S., E.U. and Russia commit to support this mission, including by providing monitors.
Была достигнута договоренность, что миссия ОБСЕ будет играть решающую роль в помощи украинским руководителям и обществам в наискорейшем применении этих средств по де-эскалации, там где они будут нужны, начиная с ближайшего времени. США, ЕС и Россия будут поддерживать данную миссию, включая предоставление мониторинга.

The announced constitutional process will be inclusive, transparent and accountable. It will include the immediate establishment of a broad national dialogue, with outreach to all of Ukraine’s regions and political constituencies, and allow for the consideration of public comments and proposed amendments.
Провозглашенный конституционный процесс будет обширным, прозрачным и подотчетным. Он будет включать немедленное установление национального диалога, будет распространяться на все украинские регионы и политические партии, и позволять принимать во внимание комментарии и предложенные поправки.

The participants underlined the importance of economic and financial stability in Ukraine and would be ready to discuss additional support as the above steps are implemented.
Участники подчеркнули важность экономической и финансовой стабильности на Украине и будут готовы обсудить дополнительную поддержку при проведении данных шагов.

The term "illegal" is used many times. President Turchynov - "legal"? Maybe there is an official document, where it is written: "...the United Nations (the US, EU or Russia) recognizes the legality of the government Turchinov in Ukraine..."? If the President Turchynov is "not the legality" of the President, then all the Ministers, governors, bureaucrats (which Turchynov approved) - "illegal". Buildings and premises where the government works - "illegally seized buildings". All decisions and laws adopted after 23.02.14 - "illegal". The national Guard is "illegal armed groups"...
Remember, "...All illegal armed groups must be disarmed; all illegally seized buildings must be returned...".
There is not even attempt to impeach "legitimate" (according to the current Constitution of Ukraine) President Yanukovych and to make lawful the new President Turchynov. This legal illiteracy or what is it? Maybe it is a desire to show the world that " Ukraine does not have power. Ukraine cannot cope with the problems of their own. Ukraine is not controllable. Ukraine is unable to perform the Geneva agreements of Ukraine. Ukraine needs to introduce external management. On the territory of Ukraine should enter the troops of foreign powers?"

The new government of Ukraine is recognised by the international community, try again. An example of the illegal armed groups includes the "self-defense forces" that somehow appeared in Ukraine near the Russian border and somehow found AKs, Russian army uniforms and commando training lessons lying down on the ground there.

[Vovka]

Cmon, ppl, do you really want to live in such country or have such leaders as Putin? Without gas & oil Russia would become another Bad Korea in few years.

yep better without gas & oil and Putin become another democratic Ukraine 

try again and u

try again and u. Crimean self-defense forces alredy disbanded so they talk about "right sector" and "maidan self-defense"  mb also about "terrorist on east"

[DaveUKR]

The new government in Ukraine, elected on the Maidan, already 2 months. I have a question: Why not declared impeachment to the President? No reason? There are many legal ways to find a reason for impeachment. Ukraine does not need the presence of a legitimate leader? Ukraine does not need the presence of a legitimate government?
The USA has approved granting of the loan Ukraine. But who today can issue loans? Who will sign the paper from the Ukrainian side? "The government of Maidan"? "De jure", the Bank may grant credit only to the government of Yanukovych. Any lawyer will argue that the guarantee (from the USA) do not apply to the loans which are issued by any Bank to the government Turchynov... Ukraine does not need loans?
May be someone benefits from the absence of a legitimate government in Ukraine? Later it will be possible to explain everything "not legitimate" activities and "not legitimate" orders, artists (from the government and governors of Ukraine) who " illegally usurped power".

Ivani4 you sound like a barbie fangirl trying to take part in discussion of transformers, read as incompetent. I find it as a special way of disrespect to everyone who tries to discuss things here. Can you just look into things before you start making posts? Read Wikipedia at least before you make assumptions because you don't look any better than Panos for instance, a guy who makes emotional posts about things he has no idea. Even in this thread it was posted a bunch of times. I find time to explain it again and show where you're wrong:

1. Current government wasn't elected on Maidan (unlike separatist Crimean government, that's the main reason why Kremlin propaganda wants to equalize them).
2. Turchinov is not a President of Ukraine. He is a head of Parliament, elected by the majority of Parliament. By the law of Ukraine he temporarily gets powers of the President when President for various reasons can't rule.
3. Parliament is the same as it was elected long time before the Maidan took part. You can't simply change 450 deputies.
4. Read the meaning of the word "legitimate".

Also. If you start speaking about laws, can you tell me how legal were actions in Crimea? I just want to hear your opinion because it all smells like double standards.

[Oberyn]

You're not meant to take their ramblings seriously. They themselves know how ridiculous their propaganda claims are, but they say it cheekily and with a smile, or make retarded "jokes" about it, because it literally doesn't matter what the justifications are and they know it. It all comes down to military strength, that is all they know and all they understand. You see it shine through here and there when they gleefully masturbate about how glorious Putin's blatant military annexation is, and how no one can stand before his mighty penis of power. It takes care of the massive chip on their shoulders and is some compensation for living in what is essentially a third world shithole dictatorship. It may be a third world shithole, but look, mighty EU and USA are afraid of us! Truly we are the heirs of Glorious Red Army.

[Segd]

yep better without gas & oil and Putin become another democratic Ukraine 

Russia + Putin - Gasoil = Belarus
Russia - Putin - Gasoil = Ukraine

Good for Ukrainians that they finally decided to change this formula to something like:
Ukraine - Yanukovich = Estonia=Poland=Latvia
Not perfect, but definitely better than it was.