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Will Putin command further invasion of Ukraine:

He will and he should, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will, but he should not, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will not, because <random witty/boring reason>
Who is mister Putin?

Author Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine  (Read 485443 times)

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Offline Erasmas

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #180 on: January 24, 2014, 12:50:37 am »
+8
About corruption, what UA folks want etc: let me just show you the summer house of Angela Merkel:

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And one of Victor Yanukovych:

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Offline Leshma

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #181 on: January 24, 2014, 01:04:40 am »
-1
Accusing all citizens of being corrupt because of actions of few individuals is just plain stupid.

People are essentially monkeys. If you see everyone around smoking, it will be hard for you not to do it yourself. Role of a state is to put limits and regulations, so that crime doesn't pay off. In my country corruption is everywhere because legal system sucks and to win anything on court you need a ton of money. Otherwise you wait for ages to get justice and even then you have to pay incredible sum of money for little or no satisfaction.

In corrupted countries, most citizens are also corrupt. Those who are not, seem like fools to majority and their opinion doesn't matter.

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #182 on: January 24, 2014, 01:12:04 am »
+1
People are essentially monkeys. If you see everyone around smoking, it will be hard for you not to do it yourself. Role of a state is to put limits and regulations, so that crime doesn't pay off. In my country corruption is everywhere because legal system sucks and to win anything on court you need a ton of money. Otherwise you wait for ages to get justice and even then you have to pay incredible sum of money for little or no satisfaction.

In corrupted countries, most citizens are also corrupt. Those who are not, seem like fools to majority and their opinion doesn't matter.

This would be correct. I oft visit my family that works in the Bahamas. Corrupt as shit and you can tell, if you live there. My Dad's company "sold" to Sysco, but to sell, Sysco had to pay like 7 million to the government in "off the books" money in addition to it's like 40 million "taxes." My father is pretty high up there and said something along the lines "Man the guy in the government who set that up is living up life right now."
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Offline Armpit_Sweat

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #183 on: January 24, 2014, 01:23:01 am »
+5
Your second comment I find outrageous. "People are dying there to change how they live - so did every single terrorist in the history". Maybe so. But  the same applies to every single freedom fighter around the world. People who get to arms fight tyranny, invaders, evil kings. Labourers who go out to streets to fight for better life. Death and suffering are not a proof of anything indeed. But sometimes it is just - JUST - the sacrifice one pays for a greater good of many others. And that deserves respect.

I am old enough to remember tanks and troops on the streets of the city where I was born. I can remember people being shot for what they believe. I know names of people who died for the country I live in. Holy fuck, I lost my family members because of it. And you know what? I would like to have enough courage to stand for what I believe when the time comes. And I wish you the same.

I did not meant to insult anyone personally, I am Russian after all, and bribes do not shock me as a concept :)

I am not sure what else but "demagogy" you want to find on this forum, or how yours is any better? You want to make me feel ashamed by mentioning your dead family members? I am sorry for your personal loss, but it does not make me change my mind. And yes, freedom fighters, terrorists, rebels - they are all fanatics. Freedom fighter for some, terrorist for others. f. ex.: Mandela was a well known terrorist in his time. Now he is a well known freedom fighter.

I wish you not to be in a situation, when you need to pay with your life, for anything at all. Or meet anyone who is willing to kill you, because of his beliefs.
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Offline Thomek

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #184 on: January 24, 2014, 04:05:09 am »
+4
Corruption can be blamed on culture, but it's too easy to do that alone. It is also strongly connected to relative poverty, and not the least. A system that allows it.

I'm a norwegian living in Poland for many years. And of course, to norwegian standards Poland can be very corrupt, but it is still way way ahead of places like Russia, which gave me the impression that people are very careful what they say to powerful people, and money gets spent in very, very unproductive ways.. And that's just a brief image I got from a two week stay there.

Now.. What is funny is that we are paranoid about corruption in Norway, although it's probably extremely low, or near as low as it can get. Still there are checks on many government positions, barring people from sitting on both parts of a table, with several years of blocking etc. The press goes bananas for the smallest powerabuse by politicians.

Now.. In Poland, where corruption is actually a problem, they  are having systems (I know it from an eduaction organization) that are so terrible, with very few checks and balances. Power people in this organization really have a lot of power, and all you learn from it is to kiss their boots or get the boot.

In my school, an art school. The same teachers we have are dealing out money in commissions AFTER school, so the students that lick their asses here have much better chances later. Their is a Principals award (paid by the school), a considerable sum, which the teacher can give out to 25 teachers every year. Nothing but a thank you for support in the schools internal politics.

No wonder corruption flowers in a system that is MADE to be easily corruptible. It is a system that corrupts even the best of people, because you are either inside it, will never get in, or in case of protest, you get kicked out.

The first thing that should happen in countries like Ukraine is to change the systems, most of all the law, but also all other organizations, so they are not so easily corruptible. Now, that probably won't happen, because too many people are living from the fact that Power=Money.

(I have to say the EU is good for the system in my school. They force them to get feedback from students, teacher ratings and other checks, and slowly changes the system to a more healthy one)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 04:08:48 am by Thomek »
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That Thomeck-delay-kicking bussiness is like that asshole-retard dude that fucks your sister sometimes.

Offline Kirman

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #185 on: January 24, 2014, 04:07:38 am »
+2
I've been almost in every protest in my country(Turkey). I was always supporting the protests anywhere/anytime but not the violence. You always expect that the government will listen to you and find a solution. Sadly it's not possible in most of the countries. Government wants to suppress it with police. And then the violence comes. It becomes something like  ''us and them''. Both sides forgets that they are living in same country.  Revolution is a really funny term for me while the current governments can control everything judgement,education, voting system etc etc... If you don't want a civil war, revolution or anything else is out of the table with this system.  For me, european union is just a bullshit. Funny that our prime minister has a potential to become puppy for EU. Let's trade them Ukraine? Nothing gonna change i'm sure of it. So all of those deads/injuries for what?That's why i left protesting, nothing good shows up at the end.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 04:40:17 am by Xside »

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #186 on: January 24, 2014, 04:52:33 am »
+9
I personally feel that joining the EU has done a lot of good for my country. Sure, people grumble about all the policies that Brussels has basically forced down on our throats and some of those have actually been detrimental to us. However, others have steered my country a lot towards becoming a less corrupt, more economically viable and democratic country.

Still, people always see only the bad things.

Offline Kafein

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #187 on: January 24, 2014, 10:03:37 am »
+1
Just so you know, EU officials are elected too. Also don't watch/read national news if you want a fair account of EU politics.

Offline Perverz

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #188 on: January 24, 2014, 10:27:18 am »
+2
BARABE:
those without the necessary properties of good in human society, coarse, vulgar and violent man, scumbags

Offline Tagora

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #189 on: January 24, 2014, 11:26:45 am »
0
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c h e l s e a  b o y s

Offline pingpong

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #190 on: January 24, 2014, 02:43:47 pm »
+1
What ever happend to that other Viktor guy the former prez? Was he a corrupt conman too? He was poisoned with radioactive shit or something like that and had a disfigured face.

Offline FleetFox

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #191 on: January 24, 2014, 08:03:09 pm »
+1
I've been almost in every protest in my country(Turkey). I was always supporting the protests anywhere/anytime but not the violence. You always expect that the government will listen to you and find a solution. Sadly it's not possible in most of the countries. Government wants to suppress it with police. And then the violence comes. It becomes something like  ''us and them''. Both sides forgets that they are living in same country.  Revolution is a really funny term for me while the current governments can control everything judgement,education, voting system etc etc... If you don't want a civil war, revolution or anything else is out of the table with this system.  For me, european union is just a bullshit. Funny that our prime minister has a potential to become puppy for EU. Let's trade them Ukraine? Nothing gonna change i'm sure of it. So all of those deads/injuries for what?That's why i left protesting, nothing good shows up at the end.

Never give up man, it is of utmost importance you keep positive not matter what, its thanks to strong and brave people like you that any social change occurs for the good of the people, not just the bastard elites.
"Its better to die on your feet than to live on your knees."
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Offline Lord_Bernie_of_Voodoo

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #192 on: January 25, 2014, 11:44:14 pm »
+1
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/euromajdan/pop-out
Protesters currently storming a government building.

Offline Adraman

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #193 on: January 26, 2014, 01:14:19 pm »
+1

Offline Nessaj

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #194 on: January 27, 2014, 03:20:15 am »
+3
Some brutal fighting going on.


Good shots of protesters using tactics/formations with homemade shields etc, in general there's loads of medieval equipment around. There's a video of protesters carrying a perrier (medieval traction trebuchet) through the streets visitors can't see pics , please register or login



perrier:


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There's a guy running around with a hammer and shield in one of those two videos above :O
Things don't exist simply because you believe in them, thus sayeth the almighty creature in the sky!