Poll

Will Putin command further invasion of Ukraine:

He will and he should, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will, but he should not, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will not, because <random witty/boring reason>
Who is mister Putin?

Author Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine  (Read 485514 times)

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Offline Tibe

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4515 on: July 05, 2014, 01:35:31 pm »
0
I wanted to keep it derailed. Damn it I tried.

Offline Butan

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4516 on: July 05, 2014, 01:54:10 pm »
0
You're right, I thought it was the term used for non conventional weapons used in war.

Not lots of east propaganda
lol

Should have precised : not lots of east propaganda to debunk on that thread.

Offline Xant

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4517 on: July 05, 2014, 02:30:33 pm »
0
Butan and Tovi posts are like watching a trainwreck; they keep getting proven wrong time and time again and they just shrug it off.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline DaveUKR

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4518 on: July 05, 2014, 03:39:10 pm »
0
From the videos posted by Dave, I see 70% APC captured by rebels (I can show you videos of the capture?) which everyone know they have; the rest being road/rail transport of tanks, from where to where, by whom, impossible to tell (especially when landmarks are not shown or in cyrillic). There was those videos during the first months of the unrest, and it was transport inside Ukraine or Russia to show that tension was increasing, and the "vacants" armored vehicles were seen at the borders of the countries to show that both had dig in and prepared for war.


No videos of russian people leaving their shiny tanks in a hurry, and rebels quickly taking control of it... or could you press me to the alleged video and give me the time it happens? I admit I looked at a glance  :wink:

Unconventional warfare doesnt mean supporting rebels openly or not. It relates to what weapons are used, and bombs/missiles/bullets are part of a conventional warfare.
One could also add that, even though dictaroship Russia is strongly invading freedom Ukraine, there is an obvious lack of bombs/missiles from the insurgency side.

Oh master Butan is back to the game. What are "captured" Ukrainian APCs doing in Russia then? I cba to prove anything to you as even if Putin personally comes to you and tells something you would still not believe it. Because ignorance is your biggest quality. They do it like this: remove all the license plates and drop it on the road. Simple like that.
(click to show/hide)

Offline Vovka

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4519 on: July 05, 2014, 04:14:50 pm »
0
Oh master Butan is back to the game. What are "captured" Ukrainian APCs doing in Russia then? I cba to prove anything to you as even if Putin personally comes to you and tells something you would still not believe it. Because ignorance is your biggest quality. They do it like this: remove all the license plates and drop it on the road. Simple like that.
(click to show/hide)
http://uainfo.org/yandex/349010-kak-proishodit-peredacha-rossiyskoy-tehniki-boevikam-lnr-foto.html

the author says that photo was taken on the way to Kuban after
crossroads Lugansk (a260) and road "DON" M4 i think soooo

https://www.google.ru/maps/@48.246121,40.288468,3a,75y,39.96h,73.05t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sx5fy3qHHRSw0LrE4CZLidg!2e0

goodluck to find dat place, i listed several kilometers and I could not find any similar place. by the way, on  this photo is no road markings

also admire a hight skill dat user to take a photo at a speed of 100km / h
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Offline DaveUKR

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4520 on: July 05, 2014, 04:35:59 pm »
0
http://uainfo.org/yandex/349010-kak-proishodit-peredacha-rossiyskoy-tehniki-boevikam-lnr-foto.html

the author says that photo was taken on the way to Kuban after
crossroads Lugansk (a260) and road "DON" M4 i think soooo

https://www.google.ru/maps/@48.246121,40.288468,3a,75y,39.96h,73.05t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sx5fy3qHHRSw0LrE4CZLidg!2e0

goodluck to find dat place, i listed several kilometers and I could not find any similar place. by the way, on  this photo is no road markings

also admire a hight skill dat user to take a photo at a speed of 100km / h

Ok, you won! КРЫМНАШ
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Offline Vovka

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4521 on: July 05, 2014, 04:47:28 pm »
0
found dat guy...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=657487524326031&set=pb.100001943677752.-2207520000.1404571203.&type=3&theater

check place where here he take photo
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Rogovskaya-Krasnodarskiy-Kray-Russia/114676798542950

also in comment he clme what:
(click to show/hide)

"bla bla no troops bla bla abandoned bl bla bl nd my And interestingly, the navigator GSM, in the car like crazy, off course, the current map of the area began to turn on the monitor like a propeller. Kilometers through all three returned to their seats, and he continued to plot a route"

HOLY SHIT ALIENS KIDNAP RUSSIAN SOLDIERS, SO TERRORIST COULD STEAL RU VEHICLES! ALL REPOST !!!


Ok, you won! КРЫМНАШ
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I donk care about  Crimea
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« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 04:53:10 pm by Vovka »
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Offline Tibe

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4522 on: July 05, 2014, 04:59:55 pm »
0
Vovka you ever do this much research on info thats pro-russian? Or you just bluntly belive that?

Offline Butan

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4523 on: July 05, 2014, 05:24:14 pm »
0
They do it like this: remove all the license plates and drop it on the road. Simple like that.[/spoiler]

If there was one tank offered to a rebel for every simple thing you said, Kiev would be surrounded by heavy armors.

Offline Tovi

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4524 on: July 05, 2014, 06:16:01 pm »
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I've never said  russian army was not in Crimea. In fact, they had the right to be there as they own a military base in the region.
So if even Putin admit it. Why don't you believe him when he says not sending equipment to Ukraine ?  :)

A lot of ukrainian officers have been fired during the 2000's decade (to reform the army). So, a lot of them joined rebel forces now.
If they really have such weapons, we could see a real war in Ukraine. All we can see actually is half a million of east ukrainians flee to Russia.
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Offline Yarl

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4525 on: July 05, 2014, 06:32:37 pm »
+1
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Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4526 on: July 05, 2014, 09:52:05 pm »
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I've never said  russian army was not in Crimea. In fact, they had the right to be there as they own a military base in the region.
So if even Putin admit it. Why don't you believe him when he says not sending equipment to Ukraine ?  :)

A lot of ukrainian officers have been fired during the 2000's decade (to reform the army). So, a lot of them joined rebel forces now.
If they really have such weapons, we could see a real war in Ukraine. All we can see actually is half a million of east ukrainians flee to Russia.
Ignorance is bliss as they say.
putler had the right to keep AGREED amount of military personell IN BASES, and instead - they were all over the place. So why don't you just suck it up and admit of being wrong and just fucking move on.
As to "believing" putler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine#The_Budapest_Memorandums - he promissed NOT to annex Crimea... tough luck I say. Then he said that his forces are moving away from border for like... 3 times? Only afterwards he actually started... something of a pullout back to bases... which is still a funny "pull back", as it seems tanks and guns are being left on the border to be "found"  :rolleyes: So... you still trust putler?

A followup question - where were the tanks, when the whole separatism BS started? Why not demonstrate and parade them THEN?

What half milion refugees? Then one counted by putler? Should we believe first, second or the latest announcement about the refugees he/his lackeys made? And no - I'm not denying there is a bunch of them NOW, that hot action is taking place, but before the whole separatist bs was cooked up (by no other than the putlers media btw) - majority of refugees were Crimean Tatars. CBA to find UN report about it, already did it once.
Also - define "real war", because IMO - you already have one. "Such weapons"... tanks? Or what did you mean? FOR EXAMPLE - russians were moving a battle group of 8(?) tanks a month or so ago. In total by passers filmed 90+ vehicles in that column. Because THAT is what it takes to have an effective use of tanks. + training. +support/logistics. +command to manage it all.  And when you are a separatist - its hard to pull that shit off. So even if you have "such tank. much wow." - its going to last only as long as its not broken, fueled and armed, each of which is difficult to maintain for prolonged periods of action.
On the other hand - if you are putler and have a bunch of written off tanks getting rusty in some garages - this is an epic way to use them: throw them at the friendly slav country and enjoy the fireworks, until the not-needed tanks are out of ammo.

Offline serr

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4527 on: July 05, 2014, 10:16:16 pm »
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Meanwhile in Ukraine...
Most prepared group of separatists with their leader Girkin retreated from Sloviansk and Kramatorsk and moved to Donetsk. Those cities are taken by our army at last.
Area taken by separatists is narrowing now, but It will be even more difficult in city with million population.
In Sloviansk it was only a little bit higher than 100k, and fights turned it into ruins. It's scary to think about how it will end up for Donetsk.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 10:20:33 pm by serr »

Offline Butan

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4528 on: July 06, 2014, 12:27:25 am »
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At least, even if the insurgency fails to create a haven for russian and anti-maidan Ukrainian, some of the more peaceful civilians caught in the crossfire have already moved on to live in Russia/Crimea.
Those that will remain will ever be a problem for Ukraine, at least as long as the "anti-terrorist" crackdown continues without any form of conclusive diplomatic talks (ultimatums and no representative councils doesnt count).

If as you say the separatists are losing ground, it may end soon. If the Ukrainian army is too exhausted, it may stop then, and resume the diplomatic/economical pressure for the release of Crimea, as Russia will to weaken Ukraine and secure Crimea.

Offline Tovi

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4529 on: July 06, 2014, 12:53:52 am »
-3
As I said in the begining of this thread, a lot of soldiers and officer of the regular army joined the separatists (while Pravy Sector joined the National Guard). So, that explain why they have trained figthers and logistic.
Ukraine is one of the first country in military equipment production. They don't really need help from outside. BUT... I don't say it's not the case. I'm just sceptical when I hear NATO nations constantly blame Russia with slight or no proof.
 Because, I ,actually, have more evidences that we (western countries) have strongly helped the Maïdan insurection (especially before and after this event).

IMO, there is no good guys or bad guys (except Svoboda and Pravy S.). And Putin is not worst than Obama. But the western empire drives too many agressive policies all around the world. Just to avoid an Eurasiatic bloc and preserve the dollar domination. It's dangerous, and it leads to war and totalitarism everywhere.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 12:59:55 am by Tovi »
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