Heavy Bastard Sword, Longsword and the katana

[Mirendill]

Okay so here goes some slight balancing in my opinion.
I personally think these swords should all be around the same level of effectiveness with each their own speciality.
Longsword (Slightly slower, heavier and hard hitting)
Katana (Faster, hitting for quite little, lighter)
Heavy Bastard sword (Overall balanced weapon)
Prices on these should be around the same aswell in my opinion, around the price that the longsword cost now, so that would mean 6660 or around there.
Personal reason for wishing these changes is, I kind of like the heavy bastard sword, but overall it feels like a gimped version of the longsword and also to keep the katana from being as much of a spam weapon as it is, while I really think the longsword could use something that sets it a bit apart from the heavy bastard sword.

so here goes my suggestions on stats

Katana.
weapon length: 95
weight: 1.8
difficulty: 12
speed rating: 101
weapon length: 95
thrust damage: 17 pierce
swing damage: 36 cut
slots: 2
(Changes, increased difficulty to use it to 12 from 9, lowered the slots required to 1, increased damage by 1)
Reasons for changes, would keep it from being the complete and utter spam weapon it is now by increasing the requirement to use it, however it would still be the fastest true, increased the weight to keep it from glancing off armor as much.

Longsword.
weapon length: 106
weight: 2.0
difficulty: 10
speed rating: 97
weapon length: 106
thrust damage: 24 pierce
swing damage: 38 cut
slots: 2
Secondary Mode
(Changes, increased damage by 2, increased weight by 0.2, lowered speed by 1)
Reasons for changes, the longsword feels like just a more effective version of the heavy bastard sword and I kind of would like to see it have it's own niche among the hybrid swords and considering it is the sword among the hybrid swords that looks the heaviest, it made sense to make it the "hard hitter" of the hybrid swords.

Heavy Bastard Sword.
weapon length: 105
weight: 1.6
difficulty: 10
speed rating: 99
weapon length: 105
thrust damage: 22 pierce
swing damage: 36 cut
slots: 2
Secondary Mode
(Changes, lowered weight by 0.4, increased speed by 1)
Reasons for the changes, well the heavy bastard sword felt useless as it is, it's heavier than the longsword, yet shorter and when heirlooming even does less damage, so only reason to ever pick this as your weapon of choice would be if you were low on cash, but due to the small difference in price, it really isn't worth trading in your longsword for this. So making it the sword in between the katana and the longsword made sense, the blade that has been balanced between speed, power and weight, without excelling in either.

----

Open to criticism.

EDIT: Updated some stats to better suit the concerns stated.

[Seawied]

No@ the katana being 1 slot. It would be used by every single archer/crossbowman/thrower in the game. Too overpowered in the current system. I'm also not convinced that the heavy bastard sword and longsword needs a buff.

[Mirendill]

No@ the katana being 1 slot. It would be used by every single archer/crossbowman/thrower in the game. Too overpowered in the current system. I'm also not convinced that the heavy bastard sword and longsword needs a buff.

in the longswords case, it's more of a rearranging stats than a buff, in the case of the heavy bastard sword? yes a slight buff but also increase in price.

And well true that most archers and such would use it, but only way I personally could think of a way to give it a it's own balancing without boosting well speed or damage, ofcourse one could lower weight.

[Korgoth]

Yeh I think its good. Katana needs to be cheaper. Its too expensive because its so shit.

I like the idea

[Seawied]

I don't use or even own a katana on any of my characters, but its clear to me that its overall effectiveness vs its total price is out-of-whack. The simplest solution (ergo the better solution) would be to reduce the price. Wee-a-boos would be happy because their stylish katana is now affordable. Other 2h users wouldn't care because it didn't shift the balance of the class. Other classes wouldn't care because its still the same item, but is priced more appropriately.

[Gorath]

If you're going to make one "bastard" weapon 1 slot, you need to make them ALL 1-slot.

Personally I think if it's sheathed on your belt/hip, it should be 1 slot.  This covers all 1hers, longsword/bastard/h.bastard/katana, morningstar, spiked mace, and goedendag I believe.

Of course I'm also hoping that when/if chadz and cmp get the whole front-side program working that allows them to change hardcoded shit that they'll make all "bastard" weapons like the langes messer and fighting axe:  IE - 1h/2h toggle with a hotkey.

[Mirendill]

Updated the stats on the katana to address the concerns.

[UrLukur]

Okay so here goes some slight balancing in my opinion.
I personally think these swords should all be around the same level of effectiveness with each their own speciality.
Longsword (Slightly slower, heavier and hard hitting)
Katana (Faster, hitting for quite little, lighter)
Heavy Bastard sword (Overall balanced weapon)
Prices on these should be around the same aswell in my opinion, around the price that the longsword cost now, so that would mean 6660 or around there.
Personal reason for wishing these changes is, I kind of like the heavy bastard sword, but overall it feels like a gimped version of the longsword and also to keep the katana from being as much of a spam weapon as it is, while I really think the longsword could use something that sets it a bit apart from the heavy bastard sword.

so here goes my suggestions on stats

Katana.
weapon length: 95
weight: 1.8
difficulty: 12
speed rating: 101
weapon length: 95
thrust damage: 17 pierce
swing damage: 36 cut
slots: 2
(Changes, increased difficulty to use it to 12 from 9, lowered the slots required to 1, increased damage by 1)
Reasons for changes, would keep it from being the complete and utter spam weapon it is now by increasing the requirement to use it, however it would still be the fastest true, increased the weight to keep it from glancing off armor as much.

Longsword.
weapon length: 106
weight: 2.0
difficulty: 10
speed rating: 97
weapon length: 106
thrust damage: 24 pierce
swing damage: 38 cut
slots: 2
Secondary Mode
(Changes, increased damage by 2, increased weight by 0.2, lowered speed by 1)
Reasons for changes, the longsword feels like just a more effective version of the heavy bastard sword and I kind of would like to see it have it's own niche among the hybrid swords and considering it is the sword among the hybrid swords that looks the heaviest, it made sense to make it the "hard hitter" of the hybrid swords.

Heavy Bastard Sword.
weapon length: 105
weight: 1.6
difficulty: 10
speed rating: 99
weapon length: 105
thrust damage: 22 pierce
swing damage: 36 cut
slots: 2
Secondary Mode
(Changes, lowered weight by 0.4, increased speed by 1)
Reasons for the changes, well the heavy bastard sword felt useless as it is, it's heavier than the longsword, yet shorter and when heirlooming even does less damage, so only reason to ever pick this as your weapon of choice would be if you were low on cash, but due to the small difference in price, it really isn't worth trading in your longsword for this. So making it the sword in between the katana and the longsword made sense, the blade that has been balanced between speed, power and weight, without excelling in either.

----

Open to criticism.

EDIT: Updated some stats to better suit the concerns stated.

Katana.
weapon length: 95
weight: 1.4
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 98
weapon length: 95
thrust damage: 18 pierce
swing damage: 34 cut
slots: 1

Longsword.
weapon length: 106
weight: 1.7
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 96
weapon length: 106
thrust damage: 23 pierce
swing damage: 35 cut
slots: 2
Secondary Mode


Heavy Bastard Sword.
weapon length: 105
weight: 1.6
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 96
weapon length: 105
thrust damage: 22 pierce
swing damage: 37 cut
slots: 2
Secondary Mode

Bastard Sword.
weapon length: 101
weight: 1.5
difficulty: 10
speed rating: 97
weapon length: 105
thrust damage: 20 pierce
swing damage: 33 cut
slots: 1
Secondary Mode

This way archers would have an option to use katanas and longswords, but those would be balanced weapons, that are not overpowered.

[Spawny]

Katana.
weapon length: 95
weight: 1.4
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 98
weapon length: 95
thrust damage: 18 pierce
swing damage: 34 cut
slots: 1

Longsword.
weapon length: 106
weight: 1.7
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 96
weapon length: 106
thrust damage: 23 pierce
swing damage: 35 cut
slots: 2
Secondary Mode


Heavy Bastard Sword.
weapon length: 105
weight: 1.6
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 96
weapon length: 105
thrust damage: 22 pierce
swing damage: 37 cut
slots: 2
Secondary Mode

Bastard Sword.
weapon length: 101
weight: 1.5
difficulty: 10
speed rating: 97
weapon length: 105
thrust damage: 20 pierce
swing damage: 33 cut
slots: 1
Secondary Mode

This way archers would have an option to use katanas and longswords, but those would be balanced weapons, that are not overpowered.

There are 1h weapons with comparable stats to the ones you posted for the bastard swords.
Generally a bit shorter with higher speed and a bit less damage or about equal overall.
Just compare the arabian cavalry sword with the stats you posted for the bastard sword.
Might aswell take the arabian cavalry sword as it is and don't mess around with the stats of the bastard weapons.

[UrLukur]

There are 1h weapons with comparable stats to the ones you posted for the bastard swords.
Generally a bit shorter with higher speed and a bit less damage or about equal overall.
Just compare the arabian cavalry sword with the stats you posted for the bastard sword.
Might aswell take the arabian cavalry sword as it is and don't mess around with the stats of the bastard weapons.

2h have faster animation than 1h (it's linked to 2h sweet spots and borked animation, but it is).

No, you can't take acs when you are 2h spec'd. And it's slower in game than suggested bs.

[La Makina]

Agree that the HBS should not be just a bad version of the LS.

However, I would imagine the HBS being a heavy piece of metal, dealing more damage (37c) and being a bit slower (97).
The LS is a long thin and fast blade, keeping the same stats, or maybe with 1 length more to still be competitive

In any case, all these 1 1/2 swords should stay below 38c which is the damage of the two-handed sword.

[Thomek]

Reducing the price of the katana to match its stats its not the way to go.. I would rather see an increase coupled with a buff. Weaboos don't need the money anyway, as most of us use cheap armors.

Agree however that it should match the longsword and heavy bastard in stats however, but I think people put far too much emphasis on the value of speed. You can't outspam any player except only PERHAPS extreme low levels with little to no wpf and everheading Mauls vs extreme agi-builds. And I'm not even sure that even then, you can outspam a good player. The spamming thing is a myth in my opinion.

Longsword as it is now:
PRICE: 6660
weapon length: 106
weight: 1.8
difficulty: 10
speed rating: 98
weapon length: 106
thrust damage: 22 pierce
swing damage: 36 cut
slots: 2
Secondary Mode

Katana as it is now:
PRICE: 9376
weight: 1.3 0.5 kg lighter -> This is also negative, as you will get stunned more often by more weapons.
difficulty: 9 1 less difficulty req.
speed rating: 101  3 more speed rating
weapon length: 95 --- 11 less range than longsword
thrust damage: 16 pierce  6 less pierce than longsword
swing damage: 35 cut  1 less swing damage than longsword
slots: 2
No Secondary Mode

In my opinion the RANGE ALONE, makes up for the higher speed of the Katana. Thus the pierce and swing damage should match the Longsword, or be a mix. Right now the Longsword has a total of 7 more damage points than the Katana.

Proposed Katana:
weapon length: 95
weight: 1.3
difficulty: 9
speed rating: 101
weapon length: 95
thrust damage: 20 pierce (To actually make it useful, and not be a 70% bump risk)
swing damage: 37 cut (Still 1 damage under the longsword total)
slots: 2

The 1 remaining damage point, together with lack of versatility due to no secondary mode makes up for the 1 less diff. req.
I don't mind increasing the price further to pay the "Weaboo Tax", double it for all I care..

These changes would make choosing between Kata and Longsword a difficult decision, for battle or duel. Range is slightly more valuable in battle however, as many opponents play the range game, and it can be an easy win against shielders who can't reach you.

The weight balance pays for itself, as lighter means getting stunned, and heavier means potentially less wpf.

Now tell me whats wrong with this logic.

[Elmetiacos]

Heavy Bastard is actually Speed 98; 99 is the speed for the regular Bastard Sword.

[Lech]

Reducing the price of the katana to match its stats its not the way to go.. I would rather see an increase coupled with a buff. Weaboos don't need the money anyway, as most of us use cheap armors.

Agree however that it should match the longsword and heavy bastard in stats however, but I think people put far too much emphasis on the value of speed. You can't outspam any player except only PERHAPS extreme low levels with little to no wpf and everheading Mauls vs extreme agi-builds. And I'm not even sure that even then, you can outspam a good player. The spamming thing is a myth in my opinion.

Longsword as it is now:
PRICE: 6660
weapon length: 106
weight: 1.8
difficulty: 10
speed rating: 98
weapon length: 106
thrust damage: 22 pierce
swing damage: 36 cut
slots: 2
Secondary Mode

Katana as it is now:
PRICE: 9376
weight: 1.3 0.5 kg lighter -> This is also negative, as you will get stunned more often by more weapons.
difficulty: 9 1 less difficulty req.
speed rating: 101  3 more speed rating
weapon length: 95 --- 11 less range than longsword
thrust damage: 16 pierce  6 less pierce than longsword
swing damage: 35 cut  1 less swing damage than longsword
slots: 2
No Secondary Mode

In my opinion the RANGE ALONE, makes up for the higher speed of the Katana. Thus the pierce and swing damage should match the Longsword, or be a mix. Right now the Longsword has a total of 7 more damage points than the Katana.

Proposed Katana:
weapon length: 95
weight: 1.3
difficulty: 9
speed rating: 101
weapon length: 95
thrust damage: 20 pierce (To actually make it useful, and not be a 70% bump risk)
swing damage: 37 cut (Still 1 damage under the longsword total)
slots: 2

The 1 remaining damage point, together with lack of versatility due to no secondary mode makes up for the 1 less diff. req.
I don't mind increasing the price further to pay the "Weaboo Tax", double it for all I care..

These changes would make choosing between Kata and Longsword a difficult decision, for battle or duel. Range is slightly more valuable in battle however, as many opponents play the range game, and it can be an easy win against shielders who can't reach you.

The weight balance pays for itself, as lighter means getting stunned, and heavier means potentially less wpf.

Now tell me whats wrong with this logic.

Thomek, you are either retarded or lobbyist. You want 'i win' button. Katana, it it's current state, is one of the best weapons. Longsword is also great weapon. Why don't you suggested something balanced, instead you want another imba weapon. Don't be loser thomek, suggest something reasonable. Katana don't have to be faster and more damaging to be good pick.

[v/onMega]

Thomek, you are either retarded or lobbyist. You want 'i win' button. Katana, it it's current state, is one of the best weapons. Longsword is also great weapon. Why don't you suggested something balanced, instead you want another imba weapon. Don't be loser thomek, suggest something reasonable. Katana don't have to be faster and more damaging to be good pick.

Okay, here it goes (an hour of play was enough for facts to become apparant)

My build is a 21/19 atm.

Maintaining a 4/1 K/D ratio is possible with both swords, heavy bastard and katana - fact.

Comfort during battle with both is low mostly, which means it aquires a lot of patience and blocking skill - fact

Getting blocked stunned in a lot of situations, omfg its akward sometimes. Even worse with katana - fact

Damage on most targets is fairly average,  while both unloomed, too low for comfort i´d say, decent when loomed i say - fact

THRUST - an option on the heavy bastard, suicide with katana - fact

Katana is overpriced, with those stats it should be lower than heavy bastards price, just because its the worse weapon.


And about the speed arguement, strangely enuff, it doesn´t make up anything.


My 5 cents.


P.S: If u meet ppl with plate or near plate armor and a polearm...you have trouble. Takes 6 or more hits sometimes and a strike will stun BADLY.