Messages

46

General Discussion / Re: CRPG statistics poll | Now featuring Agility poll!

« on: October 28, 2014, 01:10:05 am »

Looks like strength has made its comeback after all.

47

General Discussion / Re: Give your daily view at the c-rpg page on moddb AND ON THE STEAM WORKSHOP PAGE.

« on: October 27, 2014, 01:46:13 pm »

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

By clicking the above link, you give the C-rpg page a view, the more views a mod has, the higer on the top 100 it is, thus making it more attractive to new players.  Be a good lad and give our mod a view .

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

WE NOW HAVE A STEAM WORKSHOP PAGE, GO AND SUBSCRIBE RATE AND COMMENT.

At least keep cRPG in the top 100.

48

Game Balance Discussion / Re: Thoughts on 4.0 Archery Nerf and Class Counters

« on: October 27, 2014, 01:44:07 pm »

I have an issue with the damage cap, but it's probably easiest to convince Tydeus, or I'll have to make a long-winded thread for others to vote on which will take a while.

I'm already convinced it needs raised, just lazy.

49

Official cRPG 3v3 NA Tournament / Re: [OCNA 3s] Knockout Stage Information & Fixtures

« on: October 26, 2014, 04:01:41 pm »

Jayjayrod, goldi, and the dick vs the Queendom of Krea - jayjayrod, goldi, and the dick AFK forfeit

Thus, the last time Jayjrod's team was active, he was on it. Both he and his team have been eliminated. Sorry Jayjrod, but it's certainly not fair to other participants. Furthermore, swapping from one team to the next when they're set to play each other, isn't something to be supporting, even if it hasn't been strictly outlined in the rules. Common sense should dictate here, just by spending a few moments thinking about the implications such allowances would have.

Krea will have one of their replacement slots returned to them.

50

General / Re: Melee: Battlegrounds

« on: October 26, 2014, 03:25:08 pm »

Gonna have to fold space & time to be alive when this game comes about

M:BG team: 1 programmer (chadz) 50 Scientists

(click to show/hide)

They've really made huge amounts of progress in just these last three months.

51

Game Balance Discussion / Re: Thoughts on 4.0 Archery Nerf and Class Counters

« on: October 26, 2014, 02:11:29 pm »

(click to show/hide)

First, most archers were not 3-6 powerdraw before the patch (do you play this mod?, 3? really?  just pulling numbers out of your ass there buddy?).  6-8 was probably the most common range by far, for many reason including many also played strategus battles and bows available were always a  consideration, you could see that by the number of people using horn bows and longbows on the server and the damage they produced.  Most of the top archers I knew had similar builds to mine 24-21 (or they would have 21-21 depending on level).  Bagge was the notable exception with 6.

Secondly, do you grasp how shoot speed works?  Last time they reduced the shoot speed they had to revert it.  Why?  because it vastly decreases damage on mid to long range shots.  Yumi bow was shit unless you were charging toward them as horse archer getting speed bonus for decent damage, then the accuracy is worthwhile.  Also, it makes the drop so significant that you heavily favor only close ranged shots.  Basically the shots that take more actual skill (mid to long range you need to predict and understand movements of target for longer period of time in the future - takes a LOT more skill) you are saying are bad, while the impossible to miss shots (unless you shoot teammates in the back of the head in melee) should be favored by that stupid change.

Now you are reducing all the missile speed of the lower tier bows to almost yumi bow status, which combined with the low powerdraw (they added those increased shoot speeds to lower tier bows to actually make them not completely useless but somewhat effective, which you are now reversing an making 100% useless (congrats for another idiotic attempt at "item balancing by someone who doesn't understand item balance except as it favors his own personal playstyle").  The drop in shoot speed makes the arrows drop dramatically in damage, even relatively close shots will do very little damage because the lack of shoot speed to maintain the damage.

About the only semi-decent change you have is listed as tentative - making longbows 7 difficulty.  That was LONG overdue ever since it was made a significantly better bow compared to rus bow in damage - will make those minimum powerdraw users max wpf not be able to use the longbow bodkins 6 pd 181 wpf setup anymore, which was pretty OP in strat.  talking of strat you do realize the automatic peasant gear includes short bows (pretty much the only time you ever saw them in strat) - which already were the weakest damage weapons of the setup - pitchforks and cudgels did fricken more damage (8 arrows to kill peasants) and now you nerf it even more??  You are wrecking balance in a part of the mod you have almost never played and have no grasp of balance.  Why?  Because in your arrogance you think your quite limited experience is the best judge of item balance - well sorry to say but based on your past choices its pretty obvious your sense of balance is FUBAR and you need to get that arrogant stick out of your ass before you can ever hope to do a good job as an item balancer.

there is a lot more, but its obvious your too blinded by your preconceived opinions on archery to learn from those who actually have played archery a LOT (I'm sure you are a great cs:go player), which this thread is currently filled with and your peers don't seem to give enough of a shit to make the effort required to overrule chadz' current pet monkey.

Are you seriously just pissed off 24 hours a day?

52

Global / Re: Globally banned for a characters name.

« on: October 25, 2014, 06:53:09 pm »

Ban removed, now change your name or it's coming back. 

53

General Discussion / Re: Give your daily view at the c-rpg page on moddb AND ON THE STEAM WORKSHOP PAGE.

« on: October 25, 2014, 05:16:16 pm »

Make sure you get your clicks for the weekend!

54

Game Balance Discussion / Re: Thoughts on 4.0 Archery Nerf and Class Counters

« on: October 25, 2014, 04:10:54 pm »

too much accuracy has been given and I got pin point accuracy with 10 PD and heavy stuff.
1) you can't go hybrid archer easily : you'll trade the bit of damage of your bow, and will end up spammed by agi whores, and even STR whores. Don't forget you can't use anymore a two handed and a 1 slot bow, since you're going to deal no damage, and will have only 14 arrows.

3) Increasing the weight to 10 per +3 arrow bag while removing 5 arrows to each means you have to take two bags, and wear 20kg on your back. You won't be able to escape in any situation, except if you have 8 athl and no PD or you drop your bow (which, in both cases, ends up with you dead).

So if you have more WPF than you need in archery, why not, I don't know, put the points into something more useful to you? If you're getting spammed, you could lower your archery wpf by 15 and get 80-100 1h wpf. We might give back 1 more damage, but at the moment, it looks like we're going to keep archery focused around high accuracy (we'll likely be increasing it even further with a small damage increase as well).

Here was the analysis I posted in the Item Unbalance thread yesterday. As of yet, the only person to reply was San, but he agreed and, I feel like I'm a bit justified in saying; no, it was a "totally honest answer."

While I do think it's nice to say "if you can hit their head, you should be able to," I don't think that's a totally honest answer.
If that were the case, make ranged pinpoint accurate across the board.
As a few of us have said, archers were never the "snipers" in this mod, and we all know just how well Native's approach to sniper accurate archery is.

Native archers have very high projectile speed to go with their pinpoint accuracy, not to mention high damage (especially considering native soak/reduce values.)

I have recently realized that we are in a splendid position to be doing this, as we have just changed the most important requirement for it to work effectively. The general proposal in short? Raise accuracy on nearly all bows by a fair bit, so that anything over 9 WM is completely useless and results in zero accuracy increase (aside from, perhaps, the Long Bow). Why do this? Because we already gave archery the ability (perhaps necessity) of becoming more str focused. This will automatically reduce the amount of kiting, as well as the ability to do so, that agility archers have.

The past few days I have concluded that with respect to damage, any bow that has an abundance of accuracy is significantly better off being used with reduced wpf and higher PD. Any bow that already has good damage, also now has increased accuracy such that only using the minimum, with perhaps the exception of the Bow, is on the cusp of not gaining anything by using 27+ agi. Meaning that, with the increased athletics on the server (not everyone, but both extremes have increased for melee), kiting would seem to be less of a worry for higher PD requirement bows.

Furthermore, with wpf affecting damage as it does, stacking wpf atm (and especially before this patch) was too effective, thanks to the multifaceted benefits. This change necessarily reduces the status quo making WM and WPF less of a necessity for Archers and thanks to the necessary skill point sink of PD, unlike with crossbows, you don't have to worry quite so much about a flood of hybrid archers as you would with crossbows were you to make this change there (although there's certainly room for increasing accuracy for crossbows).

To put what happened to archery with this most recent patch into a different perspective: before, you were most likely to see all archery builds having 3-6 (and maybe a 7pd build here and there); post patch what you're more likely to see in two/three weeks time, is 5-10 pd builds, but without the risk of damage values getting out of hand, as well as their ability to maintain decent similar accuracy.

What does this change mean for archers? Hybrids will be able to spare more wpf for their melee stats. Hybrids will have access to higher amounts of PS. Hybrids will be able to wear more armor. Dedicated archers will have access to higher degrees of accuracy than previously allowed. The potential is there to reduce quiver weights significantly for increased effectiveness to all archers.

Here's a quick example of what I had in my head, just keep in mind, I'm not satisfied with the amount of testing I've done quite yet, so things are subject to change, not just at other balancers' requests, but as I check things out further as well. Also, keep in mind that -1 bow damage = 8 wpf worth of accuracy and +1 bow accuracy = 14 wpf worth of accuracy. So in comparison to what we had prior to the Revival Patch, these stats give some bows ~70 wpf worth of accuracy. That's a high degree of potential skill point savings, or increase in accuracy, if that's what you want.

Short Bow (this one's in a rather curious spot, balance wise. Might be best to just leave it for now and see what we can do later, with the other stats set in stone)
weight: 2
accuracy: 96
difficulty: 1
speed rating: 62 > 60
missile speed: 42
thrust damage: 20 cut
cost: 871

Nomad Bow(Subject to change upon proper damage test. Accuracy increases here should make it significantly easier to hybrid with, as well as reduce the necessity of wpf)(will likely change significantly when I can figure out what to do with it)
weight: 2.4
accuracy: 102 > 105
difficulty: 2
speed rating: 68
missile speed: 48 > 45
thrust damage: 18 cut > (-2 from Tatar Bow)
cost: 1356

Tatar Bow (Subject to change upon proper damage test.)(will likely change significantly when I can figure out what to do with it so it has a clear niche that isn't "ha bow" like the Yumi, and also not a semi-duplicate Horn Bow)
weight: 2.4
accuracy: 102 > 105
difficulty: 3
speed rating: 65 > 61
missile speed: 46 > 43
thrust damage: 19 cut > (Horn Bow damage -1)
cost: 3787

Horn Bow (Greatly subject to change. Unsure here as again, I haven't gotten around to experimenting with it after the patch)
weight: 2.7
accuracy: 103 > 104
difficulty: 5
speed rating: 59
missile speed: 44 > 42
thrust damage: 21 > 22/23
cost: 7896

Bow (Much less accurate since this bow is staying at 4pd and remains the only low tier bow with good damage capabilities, even with low PD).
weight: 3.5
accuracy: 101 > 100(maybe keep it at 101 since the rus is gaining even more of an accuracy advantage, and is therefore all the better to hybrid with, assuming one can afford twice as much upkeep)
difficulty: 4
speed rating: 58 > 56
missile speed: 42 > 41
thrust damage: 25 > 26
cost: 5188
Can't use on horseback

Yumi
weight: 3.2
accuracy: 105
difficulty: 6
speed rating: 59
missile speed: 38
thrust damage: 23 > 24
cost: 8658

Rus Bow
weight: 3.7
accuracy: 105 > 107
difficulty: 6
speed rating: 56 > 57
missile speed: 41
thrust damage: 25 > 26
cost: 9974
Can't use on horseback

Long Bow
weight: 4
accuracy: 106 > 107
difficulty: 6 > 7(MAYBE, might just keep it at 6)
speed rating: 52 > 54
missile speed: 40
thrust damage: 28 > 29(Might keep this at 28 if difficulty is raised)
cost: 11100
Can't use on horseback


All weights below to be reduced (further) by 2 or 3 if bow accuracies

Arrows
weight: 8 > 3
max ammo: 15 > 16
thrust damage: 4 cut > 5
cost: 377

Barbed Arrows
weight: 8 > 4
max ammo: 13 > 14
thrust damage: 6 cut > 7
cost: 2120

Tatar Arrows
weight: 8 > 4
max ammo: 11 > 12 (Needs to be differentiated a bit more from Bodkins)
thrust damage: 9 cut
cost: 4099 > 3211 (20% decrease in repair cost, might change repair frequency proportionately instead, due to strategus)

Bodkin Arrows
weight: 8 > 4
max ammo: 10
thrust damage: 1 pierce
cost: 5058 > 3808 (25% decrease in repair cost, might change repair frequency proportionately instead, due to strategus)

55

Announcements / Re: 0.4.0.0 - The patch of destiny

« on: October 25, 2014, 02:19:50 pm »

Read patch
play thrower - sucks
play xbower - sucks
play archer - sucks
play 2h - lol

I haven't played thrower or xbower as I've been focusing on archery. San and Macropus seem to think throwers are fine for the most part and archery, just so long as you're not playing a build from 2012 or a low pd build (1-4, maybe even 5) your build will likely be a bit poor. Accuracy is at the minute, a bit overrated for most archer builds. The idea that as an archer, you have to strive for the highest WM possible, is over.

56

General Discussion / Re: What Did You Exchange?

« on: October 25, 2014, 01:36:57 am »

I reluctantly exchanged my Hafted Blade for the Svaerdstav, and then inadvertently gave it a phantom blade(the opposite of ghost reach).

Maybe we should keep it at 156cm instead of 166cm, though?

57

General Discussion / Re: New XP Gain Formula

« on: October 24, 2014, 08:09:00 pm »

anyone level 38 yet?

A handful of players, yes. To help put it into perspective, only a single person was level 37 prior to the change. So there aren't too many at 38.

58

General Discussion / Re: Give your daily view at the c-rpg page on moddb AND ON THE STEAM WORKSHOP PAGE.

« on: October 24, 2014, 07:51:54 pm »

Might as well bump this shit too. http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,315473.0.html

Maybe someone should start a shitfest by calling native players trash and telling them they can now come to cRPG and fight on equal footing to prove themselves.

59

Game Balance Discussion / Re: Bows

« on: October 24, 2014, 06:46:23 pm »

Doesn't this statement strike you as advocating a completely upside down world?  I know that historicity and realism get short shrift in Crpg land but they should at least get a nod.  Crossbows were developed because the learning curve to reach effective skill levels was so much lower than bows.

Wait, are you implying that as a balancer, I'm not allowed to state the aspects of current balance that I dislike? Maybe you just misunderstood me, but I do think there's room for crossbows to have accuracy increased so that they are a bit better reflection of their real world simplicity.

Edit: Hey Kesh, here's another post of mine for you to -1. Too bad your childish -1 spam doesn't affect Infamy though. 

60

Game Balance Discussion / Re: Bows

« on: October 24, 2014, 05:06:47 pm »

Don't use that calculator, it's grossly outdated, use this which has been updated by San.

I'm not familiar with any archer builds that get only 4WM (not to mention less) so it should be guaranteed that everyone already has passed the extreme initial scaling WM has.

I have been testing both the Long and Rus Bows at 10PD. What I have found, is that both are equally effective, or nearly so. If I had to give one the edge, I'd probably grant that edge to the Rus, not the Long Bow. This is due to increased accuracy, increased projectile speed and increased shoot speed. Regardless of the Long Bow doing a good 15-20% more damage to some targets, the Rus is just that much more versatile.

I have to disagree with your assessment on how bows are a linear progression of increases in effectiveness. True, for many bows there is a pattern of incremental changes from one to the next, but those don't necessarily result in clear effectiveness gains. Likely there is some correlation, as that's partially the intention, but each bow has its own purpose and objective (with the Nomad and Tatar sharing the same).

There isn't really much room for variety among bow stats. Not with how TaleWorlds coded Warband and the necessity of having both the Rus and Long bow maintain competitive accuracy (especially the Rus). We can reduce accuracy of the 1-4 slot bows, perhaps the horn as well (I have yet to do any tests with the Horn/Yumi/Tatar/Nomad, but they can at no point deal more damage than the 2s bows, nor can they receive a projectile speed buff. Sure, a damage increase is on the table, but it's not going to be very large unless further reduce the differences between bows.

You're not going to see those to bows as the primary HA bows. The Yumi will always be designed to be the best HA bow (you can expect the ha penalties to change, but I wouldn't expect to gain a high degree of effectiveness back). Furthermore, because we want to dissuade players from choosing that playstyle, upkeep will remain a balancing factor (thus the cheapest bows shouldn't be the best).

Wanting to have high variation in bows in great, it's something to strive for. Unfortunately there just isn't much that can be created without making some bows severely under/overpowered. "Shotgun" playstyles aren't something we want to reward, either. They're extremely gimmicky, skill irrelevant and fun thieving playstyles. There's zero net gain to the mod's overall enjoyment by having more of them (the players choosing those builds might gain more enjoyment, but every single person who dies to them gets severely frustrated). Again, perceptions matter, whether or not it's "balanced" is aside from the point.

For all the reasons stated in the past. HA(horse ranged) will henceforth remain, intentionally, the least effective class in this mod. There is very likely room for buffs from where they are now, but everyone needs to keep the previous statement in mind.