cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: RD_Professor on April 09, 2018, 09:20:16 am

Title: the deve wipe?
Post by: RD_Professor on April 09, 2018, 09:20:16 am
like every other decision i've made as developer, the answer is yes and no. no, your characters will not be wiped, but yes there will be the option to play on a wiped server.

my current plan is to set up two additional servers, one for NA, and one for EU, each of which can only be played on by certain characters. that is, the new servers cannot be played on by characters made on normal servers (NA1, NA7, the EU ones), and characters made on the new servers will not be able to play on main servers. additionally, there will be no option to transfer between these two types of characters, and characters made on these new 'wipe' servers cannot be strat heroes.

essentially, the wipe servers will give players the choice to participate gameplay on the same level as everyone else. additionally, these servers will be wiped semi-annually or something. ideally this could include seasons or special items for the person who performed the best on the servers during said season. or other things, it's more of a concept at the moment.

why this?
well, the community is pretty much dead split on the issue of wipe. if you wipe, you lose players who don't want to see their progress .. wiped. but if you don't wipe, you run the chance of game slowly dying out completely. at the same time, wiping gives the opportunity of starting afresh, and drawing in new players, while not wiping leaves player's grinded items intact. now, i'm not pro wipe, nor against wiping. i just see the benefits and drawbacks of each side, and wanted to come up with a solution that could in some sense get the best of both worlds. with this system, players have the option to participate in the peasantry wars, or keep playing on main servers with their hard-ground equipment. i'm fairly sure that the new servers will allow us to test whether there is a demand for a wipe, as we will see whether these servers are popular or not. if they aren't popular, and die out, well then it's pretty likely that there aren't a large amount of players willing to come back if the mod is wiped. if they are popular, and players come back, then that's great!
thankfully, this won't be entirely difficult to implement. it requires adding in some values to the database, copying the current battle gamemode and slightly modifying it, and ensuring that there can't be contact between different types of players. if i worked like i did in november, this could be definitely done in a week. but, there's other things i need to focus on for now.

what are issues with this?
i can't think of a lot. as far as i can tell, the only risk that comes with this is splitting the playerbase. which is fairly valid. but, my hope is that players would give the wiped servers a try, even if they were not pro-wipe. alternatively, these servers could be set up for specific periods during the week, leaving the rest of the time for the main servers. if worst comes to worst and playerbase is split in a way that threatens future population stability, then there's always the option of shutting down the servers. hopefully that won't happen


that's my general plan as of now regarding the wipe issue. i'm open to ideas, criticism, suggestions, all that stuff, but unless someone has a stronger proposal, this is what will get implemented. i'm not gonna give out definite dates of when this will occur, but likely before summer. i'll try to remember to read the thread. and do let me know if my idea is unclear at all
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Rando on April 09, 2018, 09:22:02 am
inb4 At fifteen, I had the will to  learn ; at thirty, I could stand ; at forty, I had no  doubts ; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding ;  at sixty, my ears were opened ; at seventy, I could  do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the  square.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: RD_Professor on April 09, 2018, 10:01:39 am
this is a simulated wipe on non-standard servers. for example, i'll probably create two servers NA9 and EU9. you can only join those servers with characters made on either of them. that is, you can't take your main and play on this server. characters created on this server will be unable to trade or transfer with characters made outside the server.

all other characters not made on those servers will not be wiped. again, unless you make a character on NA9 or EU9 when they pop up, your characters will not be wiped
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: the real god emperor on April 09, 2018, 10:10:18 am
What are the chances that we can have a strat only for those characters? Otherwise I don't think anyone will be arsed to play and it will further divide the community. What happened to "either wipe or not wipe" slogan of yours? We certainly tried the no wipe way didn't we? Why can't we just let it all go and try to give it one final spark by wiping everything and reseting strat simulatenously? Nothing else will work and you know it. Especially this, thinking this will make people play and make everyone happy is madness. But for some reason, we never go for the obvious solution at our hands. What do we lose from a full wipe? Half of our community?Zero divided by two is still zero lol.

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Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on April 09, 2018, 10:36:53 am
Quote from: Kratos on April 09, 2018, 10:10:18 am
What are the chances that we can have a strat only for those characters? Otherwise I don't think anyone will be arsed to play and it will further divide the community. What happened to "either wipe or not wipe" slogan of yours? We certainly tried the no wipe way didn't we? Why can't we just let it all go and try to give it one final spark by wiping everything and reseting strat simulatenously? Nothing else will work and you know it. Especially this, thinking this will make people play and make everyone happy is madness. But for some reason, we never go for the obvious solution at our hands. What do we lose from a full wipe? Half of our community?Zero divided by two is still zero lol.

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NA has been gaining players, only EU is dead. Why wipe everything because EU players are crybabies that refuse to play?
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: RD_Professor on April 09, 2018, 10:37:29 am
Quote from: Kratos on April 09, 2018, 10:10:18 am
What are the chances that we can have a strat only for those characters? Otherwise I don't think anyone will be arsed to play and it will further divide the community. What happened to "either wipe or not wipe" slogan of yours? We certainly tried the no wipe way didn't we? Why can't we just let it all go and try to give it one final spark by wiping everything and reseting strat simulatenously? Nothing else will work and you know it. Especially this, thinking this will make people play and make everyone happy is madness. But for some reason, we never go for the obvious solution at our hands. What do we lose from a full wipe? Half of our community?Zero divided by two is still zero lol.

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strat only? maybe. for the other stuff, i hope that this server idea can simulate a wipe without actually wiping away the years of progress
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: the real god emperor on April 09, 2018, 10:58:58 am
Quote from: Tristan_of_Erzoth on April 09, 2018, 10:36:53 am
gaining players

Deleteteded upon req

:thumbsuptrump:
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Oberyn on April 09, 2018, 11:05:31 am
I appreciate all your work Prof, but this is a shitty milketoast fence-sitting solution that fixes nothing. I agree with Kratos, if you're serious about a wipe it's all or nothing imo.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: ARN_ on April 09, 2018, 11:07:38 am
Quote from: Oberyn on April 09, 2018, 11:05:31 am
I appreciate all your work Prof, but this is a shitty milketoast fence-sitting solution that fixes nothing. I agree with Kratos, if you're serious about a wipe it's all or nothing imo.
Wow I agree with Oberyn on something, but yea this seem like the worst thing to do. Either you wipe or no wipe there is no middle ground.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Oberyn on April 09, 2018, 11:11:16 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Larvae on April 09, 2018, 12:04:37 pm
Quote from: Oberyn on April 09, 2018, 11:05:31 am
I appreciate all your work Prof, but this is a shitty milketoast fence-sitting solution that fixes nothing. I agree with Kratos, if you're serious about a wipe it's all or nothing imo.

 this.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Gravoth_iii on April 09, 2018, 12:12:11 pm
I'll try it out i suppose, maybe to get a full set.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Oberyn on April 09, 2018, 12:18:13 pm
Keep backup of the current database so that if wipe ends up as an utter failure (although I can't see how it could be worse than current cRPG state) you can always officially roll-back to it. Keeping it as a semi-accessible thing by choice and splitting the already dying population further seems like a bad move.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Gravoth_iii on April 09, 2018, 01:26:23 pm
Quote from: Oberyn on April 09, 2018, 12:18:13 pm
Keep backup of the current database so that if wipe ends up as an utter failure (although I can't see how it could be worse than current cRPG state) you can always officially roll-back to it. Keeping it as a semi-accessible thing by choice and splitting the already dying population further seems like a bad move.

Isnt the population just literally dead atm? At least there will maybe be some life in the wipe server for a while, doesnt seem like it would make a difference at this point really.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: War_Ferret on April 09, 2018, 03:12:11 pm
1. Thinking of splitting players into 2 groups at this time seems a bit dilusional... like the fuehrer moving armies on his map that have been wiped out long ago. Or do you still have a secret weapon up your sleeves that can change the course of the mod?

2. Why don't you make a sticky where everyone leaving the mod can post their reasons why, no matter if they joined 8 years ago or yesterday. Because all the people here talking about wipe are still playing...

3. If you should wipe after all, just get rid of looms and levels alltogether. I predict that without grinding people will tend to play much less, but I for once don't want to go through all that grinding shit again, if there's a reset. Just remove all +1/2/3s and give everyone the same amount of skill points plus unrestricted respecs.

4. What you really should do is to change something about gameplay and gamemodes. Something new might get people interested again. How about a team death match server for example? I bet one of the worst things for new players is having to fight against all these pros who have been playing forever, only to get killed first every round and have to watch for 2 or 3 minutes. You can hardly even practice and get better when you're dead all the time. You could also try to do something with bots and PVP at the same time, maybe with conquest + resources for that RTS touch and what not. But maybe TDM would be a good start... and if you can add bots while the player count is low, you will have proven your competence.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: zottlmarsch on April 09, 2018, 03:14:16 pm
Quote from: Oberyn on April 09, 2018, 11:05:31 am
I appreciate all your work Prof, but this is a shitty milketoast fence-sitting solution that fixes nothing. I agree with Kratos, if you're serious about a wipe it's all or nothing imo.

Pretty much this.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Jona on April 09, 2018, 04:30:55 pm
One of the (many) problems with a full wipe at this point is (NA) strat is still somehow going decently strong, and the quickest way to remove that small incentive to play is to give everyone playing strat a level 1 character. Sure, you'll inevitably have some nerds grind up to a high level again in no time, but you'll have plenty of others who only participate in strat battles remain stuck at a low level for far longer, living off strat xp only (and they're far more likely to just leave once they have to grind again).
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: //saxon on April 09, 2018, 04:33:26 pm
make a Royale server
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: RD_Professor on April 09, 2018, 05:20:40 pm
let me go into a bit more depth on my hesitancy to wipe and why i'm proposing this fence-fuckin' idea.

first off, i have deleted all my characters and progress before and restarted from scratch, on several occasions. the reasons why are irrelevant, but i don't have very close ties to the stuff i've got from grinding. however, there are some who do have close ties, and a wipe would destroy their desire to play the game. and as far as i can tell, this is a significant portion of the population. i recall that polls put wipe/no wipe fair dead even in terms of popularity. wiping runs the risk of completely alienating this portion of the population. right now, losing a couple players isn't good, and losing a large chunk is definitely bad. even if you are a person who is pro-wipe, you gotta understand that others out there attribute lots of sentimental value to their hard-grinded equipment. i wouldn't really care if my equipment got reset, but i know that there are quite a few players who would. that's why i don't want to take the path of a full wipe. also chadz said there would be no wipes i can't go against his will, all praise chadz

so then why do this halfway idea if i don't like the idea of wiping? well, not wiping is a poor solution also. sadly, this game is almost a decade old, and a wipe could breathe life into it once more. right now, there just isn't much reason to grind, for most players, and wiping could restore that desire. others have gone into more detail, but that's some of the basic reasoning behind why a wipe is a good idea. and those reason are totally valid!

this is the issue, you have valid reasons on both sides, for wiping or against wiping. at the same time, you have reasons why doing one or the other would not be a good idea, and could seriously harm the mod population. fucked if you do, fucked if you don't. and that's why i'd proposed the solution that does both. before i explain why the player population split might not be too bad, i'm going to talk about my thoughts on testing out a wipe.

it's been proposed that we could do a test wipe, revert the database back if things go poorly. or we could massively increase the pace of grinding so that those with a lot of looms could get them back quickly. ideally, this should satisfy those against the wipe because they could get their equipment back quickly. however, i don't think this is the case. now, i could be entirely wrong, but to my understanding the opposition to wiping for most isn't born out of aversion to going through the grind again, it stems from not wanting to see all their hard work go to waste. and with this test wipe idea, even if it is reverted back, or even if rewards are high, these players will still lose all of their equipment, and see their hard work destroyed. there's no getting around this fact if a full wipe is implemented. as for reasons stated before, it's likely that losing this would be enough to lead them to quit.

given that there have been, what, 5 threads or so in the past week, this is a pretty heated topic to be sure. we've all sunk years into this game, and tend to have fairly entrenched opinions. if i were to choose one side and do it fully, there would be many, many upset players, some of which might leave. that's not a good course of action. and thus my fence fucking idea was born.

now, i don't think this idea would split player population. just because a player is anti-wipe does not necessarily mean that the player will be unwilling to play on a wiped server. i am having difficulty articulating this, so it would probably be best answered by someone who opposes wiping. (please someone anti-wipe let us know if you'd play on a wipe server)
essentially, even if this does split the population, with little influx of players, then these wipe servers can be shut down. (which is a argument for the test wipe) but, unlike the test wipe, no progress will be erased at all, players will just have the option of whether they want to experience the wipe or not

yes, it's not a perfect idea, there are issues with it, but i wholeheartedly believe that it's a better option than implementing a full wipe, or not wiping at all. the thing is, right now, we don't really know how many players would come back if a wipe happened. i think that this is a good way to test and see without causing any current players to quit

have fun reading that. it's very coherent


oh. besides the point, the wipe issue is the hot topic of the week, so i figured i'd actually reveal my plans and ideas for once to yall. implementation of this would be down the road a fair deal, and in the meantime i'll be looking into other options to spice up the mod. (that is once pseudonyms are fixed)
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Sniger on April 09, 2018, 05:25:57 pm
i think this is a good idea. both camps sort of get their way and we can see what solution is best to gain player numbers.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Jona on April 09, 2018, 05:29:33 pm
Quote from: RD_Professor on April 09, 2018, 05:20:40 pm
now, i could be entirely wrong, but to my understanding the opposition to wiping for most isn't born out of aversion to going through the grind again, it stems from not wanting to see all their hard work go to waste.

Nah, at least in my case, I'm only against a wipe because I never want to have to grind again. Surely there are at least a couple others in the same boat. People have grown up, we don't all have nearly infinite free time anymore to waste on a grind and just want to hop in the servers and enjoy the crpg we've come to love, at a high (or at least competitive) level. Playing as a low level peasant is far from fun for plenty of people, especially when you play so infrequently that it'd take months for you just to get up close to the retirement level.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Dalhi on April 09, 2018, 05:53:31 pm
Quote from: Jona on April 09, 2018, 05:29:33 pm
Nah, at least in my case, I'm only against a wipe because I never want to have to grind again. Surely there are at least a couple others in the same boat. People have grown up, we don't all have nearly infinite free time anymore to waste on a grind and just want to hop in the servers and enjoy the crpg we've come to love, at a high (or at least competitive) level. Playing as a low level peasant is far from fun for plenty of people, especially when you play so infrequently that it'd take months for you just to get up close to the retirement level.

That is why it is proposed to raise starting level to something playable (lvl 30 would be nice) from the start, it's 2018 I doubt if peasant wars are that much desired, and I doubt if there will be much looms around. Still some basic mechanics would need rethinking, starting from xp/gold gain system, to some other minor stuff like decreased looms rank, and some other annoying (at least for me and actually for quite a lot of guys judging by the comments in game chat) things like rain and fog occurance and night time. That would most likely some experienced with warband module system volunture to help Professor.
At the same time I don't think that future attempts to balance the game by playing around with item stats and other fancy functions are that much needed, if you look in past all what it did was leaving some directly touched with the changes leave the game.

Keeping two databases running alongside might be reasonable solution after all, at least for time, need some advertising and an announcemt before it happen and coupled with another strat reset (.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Gnjus on April 09, 2018, 05:59:56 pm
Quote from: RD_Professor on April 09, 2018, 09:20:16 am
but if you don't wipe, you run the chance of game slowly dying out completely

It already died out. There's more life in your average Krem's brains than in cRPG right now and they're absolutely brain-dead.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Gnjus on April 09, 2018, 06:13:24 pm
Quote from: RD_Professor on April 09, 2018, 05:20:40 pm
however, there are some who do have close ties, and a wipe would destroy their desire to play the game. and as far as i can tell, this is a significant portion of the population.

So why aren't they playing their precious characters ? You surely don't mean its those 20 or so oddballs playing DTV ? They shouldn't even count as "population".  :wink:

Your logic is all fine but it doesn't work on empty realm.  8-)

I hate to repeat myself but: http://forum.melee.org/the-chamber-of-tears/c-rpg-pro-database-wipe-assembly-(no-polls-written-opinions-)/msg1260318/#msg1260318

 8-)
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: emirso2 on April 09, 2018, 06:56:12 pm
Quote from: Tristan_of_Erzoth on April 09, 2018, 10:36:53 am
NA has been gaining players, only EU is dead. Why wipe everything because EU players are crybabies that refuse to play?

NA is used to dead/near-dead player activity. I would really like to know the statistics regarding this "gaining players" "so much alive lel" attitude.

This situation is closely similar to the fate of progressive struggles in underdeveloped countries with near-half of the population(sadly, as the EU is dead, NA opinions suddenly started to matter as 'half') is against the progressive idea, as they are used to shitty standards and they saw nothing more than their shitty standards all their lives, so they are unable to/unwilling to understand the need for such measures which would probably result in a better future for all parts of the community. (e.g. mod being alive again.)


anyways thats just what i see

-written by Anani
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Panos_ on April 09, 2018, 07:50:37 pm
Whatever you do, do it fast please.

Today I installed Mercs mod, which is total shit....
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: the real god emperor on April 09, 2018, 08:22:20 pm
You have to consider the fact that many people that were anti wipe are now pro wipe since the polls we held because they have seen the progress of the mod. I am aware of the fact that some people are against it and I can surely see why, but the seperate server IMHO isnt the common denominator we are looking for. I am uncertain on whether if it would work or not, but can't understand dividing the community while fearing to lose the community by doing a full wipe. 2 servers with 10 people is as bad as one server with 10 people imo.
Of course the aim is to make everyone happy, but if the wipe server becomes are grand success, will we consider wiping ot altogether or have the same dilemma over and over?

Imo Oberyn's idea is the best we can do in this case, which was pretty basic. Just backup everything and wipe, if it turns out to be a disaster, say oops and roll back, if it doesn't which it  most probably won't, it's a win.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Asheram on April 09, 2018, 08:22:35 pm
Jeez you give an option to have a server for wipe chars only and it still isnt good enough for some and people still just want to nuke other peoples stuff. what a bunch of lobsters, one trys to escape and others pull it back in.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Blackbow on April 09, 2018, 08:40:09 pm
Sound like a good idea to make everybody happy, but that will just split a dead community...

but imo make a full wipe try/test, see if people come back and if not just roll back our old chars
or just let the mod die... i see the mod like an old woman you try to reanimate with defibrilator but she lived enough and just want to pass out...

atleast thx for trying
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Grytviken on April 09, 2018, 09:01:01 pm
New wipe characters should have exclusive access to new clans, strat, new market, events, lp sales, exchanges, tournaments etc, but you should still allow stubborn people who don't agree with the wipe to old friend around on their old characters on the same server if they want, they just won't be able to interact with the new market, banner stack, trade with new characters, inflate or ruin the economy etc.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on April 09, 2018, 09:43:15 pm
Why not do what blizzard does with the Diablo series? There's a current ladder/season where everyone starts fresh with nothing, it lasts about 6 months. At the end, your season characters become non-season. You can start fresh for the next season, or keep playing your old guys with all the gear and xp. Everyone could have their current characters start of expired/non season, and at the end of the season all the new characters join them and can play together.

If this is the plan, I'd tweak XP/looms a little bit for current ladder season. Not too much, but enough for people to get a "full" set of matching armor and their favorite weapon loomed by the end of the season. Maybe even just make the first few generations of retirement give 3 heirlooms instead of 1 so you can get your most needed items set up sooner.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Taser on April 09, 2018, 09:48:22 pm
Ooh thats a cool idea too. With ladder chars participating in strat or only ones able to get looms?

Interdasting.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Sauce on April 09, 2018, 11:19:53 pm
Dividing an already low population is a bad idea. What does everyone want:

New players/peasants.

You don't need to nerf classes. You don't need to hand out levels and give 50lp's for incentive. You don't need to wipe everyone's work. You need to change the nature of the game. Make being/defending a peasant a highly rewarding group game play mechanic. This is what knights even did during the feudal age, defend the peasants so they can make them money!

Everyone loves DTV? Now DTV is practically on every server with more depth. People will make a peasant just to experience the love and fun.

Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Grumbs on April 09, 2018, 11:35:06 pm
Seems like a really strange idea personally. If it works then go for it, but it seems like if you want people to play you just have to make the game fun to play. I think a wipe will just be a temporary novelty that isn't really going to change the core of what makes people play the game. It might make people play for a bit because its new, but what is going to make them keep playing with a wiped server compared to playing now without a wipe? And we will have a more split community?

Go ahead and try whatever though, it doesn't make make much difference to me any more. I'd just rather you put some effort into the core of the gameplay rather than spend effort on wipes. Tweak up polestabs, add new gear, add ladders etc. What keeps people coming back usually is active development and fun gameplay and the sense that the devs are on the community's side rather than fighting against them
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Sauce on April 09, 2018, 11:40:24 pm
The wipe is a temporary band aid (that might not even help at all) on a bigger issue.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Kadeth on April 10, 2018, 01:26:38 am
Quote from: Grumbs on April 09, 2018, 11:35:06 pm
I think a wipe will just be a temporary novelty that isn't really going to change the core of what makes people play the game.

The core of what makes cRPG great is still there, and always been; customisation options compared to native, with its basic character progression system and its huge amount of items. IMO, understanding why the m0d is dead requires talking to people that are interested in it but don't play it, which is something I've done extensively, and in my experience the comments are always the same. Mostly "can't be fucked grinding to get to on par with the regular players", and the odd complaint about the turn rate nerf or other mechanics issues. We all know very well that it doesn't take too long to level up to a point where you can be competitive, but a lot of Warband players don't, and have written off cRPG because they want a more level playing field. When most of us here started playing, we had the luxury of not getting dumpstered by ultra high level players with fully loomed gear. It's not a great first impression when you play current cRPG, but if wiped, the impression this mod gives to the entire Mount and Blade community changes completely, and I think there's real potential to attract a decent amount of players before bannerlord destroys cRPG totally.

Prof, you always have the best intentions, and you will without doubt go down in cRPG history as the kindest deve of all time. But I can't help but feel like this is a huge mistake. Not only does it split the existing players, but it will be confusing for potential new and returning players too. Which of the two separate communities should they want to join? Personally I wouldn't play on either, but I'd probably go full Leshma 16 hour days if it was wiped. This is unfortunately one of those situations where you can't make everyone happy. I had already accepted that the mod wouldn't be wiped, as much as it sucks. You're going to have to approach this head-on if you want this issue to go away, by either announcing that the database will NEVER be totally wiped, or that a trial wipe will occur. It's the only way the wipe debates will cease, people will accept your decision and move on.

Peasant wars... goals... an even playing field.... a clean slate for all.... players returning from all over the world !!! ...... a distant dream? or is there hope?
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Leesin on April 10, 2018, 01:27:20 am
Just wipe and kill the mod already
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Torben on April 10, 2018, 09:32:12 am
+1 for well phrased topic headline
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Mr.K. on April 10, 2018, 09:48:41 am
Quote from: Kadeth on April 10, 2018, 01:26:38 am
The core of what makes cRPG great is still there, and always been; customisation options compared to native, with its basic character progression system and its huge amount of items. IMO, understanding why the m0d is dead requires talking to people that are interested in it but don't play it, which is something I've done extensively, and in my experience the comments are always the same. Mostly "can't be fucked grinding to get to on par with the regular players", and the odd complaint about the turn rate nerf or other mechanics issues. We all know very well that it doesn't take too long to level up to a point where you can be competitive, but a lot of Warband players don't, and have written off cRPG because they want a more level playing field. When most of us here started playing, we had the luxury of not getting dumpstered by ultra high level players with fully loomed gear. It's not a great first impression when you play current cRPG, but if wiped, the impression this mod gives to the entire Mount and Blade community changes completely, and I think there's real potential to attract a decent amount of players before bannerlord destroys cRPG totally.

This is exactly my view of it currently as well. I've been against the wipe for a longest time, but I've changed my mind lately because of a couple of things. When everyone has loomed gear, the looms don't even matter anyway. I haven't played without +3 gear since forever and our armory isn't very impressive compared to some others... Same with levels. My lvl33 characters hardly have an edge anyway so why care about a wipe?

Imo the best course of action would be full wipe with some changes to some mechanics that you can then use to advertise the new and improved cRPG. As with all advertising, the change doesn't have to be big (or even really a change (https://image.slidesharecdn.com/prsentation2-090921073535-phpapp02/95/sex-trust-transparency-what-would-donald-draper-blog-5-728.jpg?cb=1253518705)), just something you can bring up and hype the product. Change the turn rate nerf slightly for example. Same goes with Strategus which is still by far the biggest selling point of crpg. Start hyping in advance this changed Strategus with limited length rounds and new interesting mechanics and people will be interested. The crpg community itself is too small now to bring much change but the interest is clearly still there and crpg can still fill that void.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Leshma on April 10, 2018, 10:35:52 am
Quote from: Grumbs on April 09, 2018, 11:35:06 pm
If it works then go for it, but it seems like if you want people to play you just have to make the game fun to play.

^This.

I mean, Warband is always fun to play but cRPG leveling and item mechanics are being atrocious. No way anyone sane would put himself through that ordeal one more time for the sake of the gameplay.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Oberyn on April 10, 2018, 11:11:50 am
Leshma I just want to be serious with you for once. Kill yourself.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Paul on April 10, 2018, 01:34:47 pm
And thus decimate the tax paying population of Serbia? Nah. Think of the parasites!
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Panos_Tournament on April 10, 2018, 01:41:01 pm
IMO, before wiping some things must be done.

1. An interesting map rotation, bring back all the native maps, and just add 15-20 more of the custom ones.
2. Decrease the player slots on EU1, I do not know if this will make the server to perform better or not, but the current server is shit.
3. All players should begin at level 30, fuck the endless grinding.
4. Make special classes very expensive, if anyone wants to play as a lancer, or as a crossbowman, he should pay more upkeep.
For example, horses prices should begin from 20k AT LEAST.
5. Remove any restrictions and penalties regarding Respecs, just add an X amount of gold for a respec.
6. Ive said it before, ONCE A WEEK, EVERYONE SHOULD GET A FREE HEIRLOOM EXCHANGE. We have tons of armours, why restrict different gamestyles? Cant you see that restrictions are forcing people away from the mod?
7. Rework the stats of all the classes, they are fucked up.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Leshma on April 10, 2018, 02:58:34 pm
Getting to level 30 was never an issue. What lies beyond is problematic. Old system was easier on leveling but item prices were high. You could get high enough level for retirement as gen1 in very short time while being part of the XP blob. With high gen bonus you could level crazy fast. It basically rewarded players for being regular players but didn't force them to be addicts like current system does.

Anyway, mod leveling mechanics need serious overhaul. It is stuck in old era with vanilla WoW and Everquest nonsense where you grind like madman. These days players are impatient, you need to shorten time to reward in all aspects of the game. Twenty hours to retirement must become five hours tops and even that is generous.

No one is crazy enough to level again unless you change the leveling to be much, much more casual and rewarding.

XP multiplier must die, it is by far the worst cRPG mechanic ever.

Edit: Main reason why servers are dead or semi dead is that most of you, the playerbase, are now grown up men while you were teens when you started playing. You don't have more than ten hours per week to invest in cRPG and game should respect that and be changed to enable you to enjoy playing for those few hours per week.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: zottlmarsch on April 10, 2018, 03:04:09 pm
Quote from: Havelle Registered Voter on April 10, 2018, 03:02:32 pm
Wouldn't splitting servers be overall detrimental to the population that wants to play on decently populated servers?

Yes.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Leshma on April 10, 2018, 03:10:11 pm
One more thing, survival/battleroyale game mod should be easily doable because all the ingredients for it are present in the game as existing game mechanics. Remove/disable equipment dialog when joining the server, use catapult mechanics to create/craft items from previously collected ingredients, those weapons and armor would be the only weapons and armor present on server besides primitive weapons like sticks and short staves which would be scattered around the map. You could also put weapons in locked chests and put them in castle chambers. I'm fairly sure any semi competent dev could cook up some battle royalle gamemod from existing Warband mechanics. Rageball is more complicated to make.

That could revive the mod.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Bronto on April 10, 2018, 03:56:59 pm
Pretty simple reason why Battle Royale mode won't work. We have different builds in this game. Unless you're super pro rocking the 15/15 build with 5 points in everything, battle royale is only going to favor the player that finds the correct weapon first. Maybe that's the point you're going for, but if it is, then that is pretty dumb.

Only revival of this mod left to try, since the squeakiest wheels are against a wipe, would be bring back the old XP methods as Sauce has suggested in a previous post. While, nothing new, perhaps this dev team will actually do it. Other than that, this mod is really limping along and has been for quite some time. Let's not kid ourselves, 20 person strat battles are not grounds to say the NA population is really ramping up lol. I do not think a separate server for new character creation is necessary but that's what prof is doing. I think it would've been better to wipe strat (since it was kind of fucked up and exploitable), add proximity xp and gold gain, and make heirloom exchanges/heirloom points purchasable on the main shop page. I'm not the one with the coding knowledge so I can only give ideas and if I knew how to code it, I'd do it myself.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Gravoth_iii on April 10, 2018, 07:13:32 pm
I'd like for a battle royale mode to work, but i dont think it will be very good even with mechanics working properly. Maybe im wrong but i feel as if it would just be people avoiding conflict, and no way to catch up to those running. That it would boil down to backstabs only. Im a bit overly cynical maybe because while it seems like it could be a disaster it also seems like it could be amazing.

The simplest method would simply be to place breakeable boxes around that contains whatever useful item like a healing thingy or a weapon. And maybe run some gimmick on the air drop idea everyone has, a temporary horse to get to whatever spot you want, which despawns after a timer or something stupid  :mrgreen:

18/18 build with all maxed stats, no ranged weapons but maybe some throwing stuff, theres potential out there.. maybe in bannerlord.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Grumbs on April 10, 2018, 07:25:54 pm
Who can be bothered retiring again? If there is a wipe then there should be a huge lessening of the grind to compensate and maybe tweak loomed items. Make them optional sidegrades maybe rather than pure upgrades to unloomed gear. So + armour but + weight at the same time or something, and for weapons + armour but -speed to compensate.

Otherwise there might as well be a server with no looms and all players are set to a certain level. Or it will just end up as the loomed vs unloomed which is more of a power gap than what we have now were everyone has looms
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on April 10, 2018, 08:24:55 pm
Quote from: Havelle Registered Voter on April 10, 2018, 05:27:49 pm
Personally, I'd play a lot more if I wasn't banned.
ya we need this battle buddy back asap
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on April 10, 2018, 08:34:43 pm
Quote from: Panos_Tournament on April 10, 2018, 01:41:01 pm
6. Ive said it before, ONCE A WEEK, EVERYONE SHOULD GET A FREE HEIRLOOM EXCHANGE. We have tons of armours, why restrict different gamestyles? Cant you see that restrictions are forcing people away from the mod?

I would love to see this done. It could be abused for flavor of the month weapons that recently got buffed, but it would be nice to change your loomed armor now and then. Armor is mostly just personal preference, you wear the ones that you think look cool and either go light, medium, or heavy.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Kadeth on April 11, 2018, 12:45:16 am
Quote from: Havelle Registered Voter on April 10, 2018, 05:27:49 pm
Personally, I'd play a lot more if I wasn't banned.

Honestly, you're welcome to have my account. PM if interested and I'll send you my Warband serial key.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Asheram on April 11, 2018, 12:51:27 am
Quote from: Kadeth on April 11, 2018, 12:45:16 am
Honestly, you're welcome to have my account. PM if interested and I'll send you my Warband serial key.
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Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Jona on April 11, 2018, 01:13:09 am
Quote from: Asheram on April 11, 2018, 12:51:27 am
(click to show/hide)

If you're gonna shitpost about the fact that Kadeth is Australian, at least do it properly. For example:


When Kadeth comes to visit NA:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Asheram on April 11, 2018, 01:19:39 am
I wasn't trying to shitpost kadeth I was trying to get upvotes from him.  :P
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Kadeth on April 11, 2018, 02:28:22 am
keep your panties on, ladies
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Allers on April 11, 2018, 02:38:15 am
bring back old xp system and crushthrough morningstar???

EDIT: idea seems good, i dont want to lose my character that ive had for 7 years but I would also want to play on wiped servers too and have a fresh start with everyone else if it brings more people
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Dupre on April 11, 2018, 07:31:35 pm
Quote from: Havelle Registered Voter on April 11, 2018, 01:27:54 pm
That'd be real awesome Kadeth! But I wouldn't want to get YOU banned. I thinm there's some murky rules against sharing accounts to avoid bans

You shouldn't be able to play in the first place. You never even did your essay that we agreed on.  Anyone else I could care less but you've been the biggest pile of shit out of everyone I have dealt with in crpg. 
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: ArysOakheart on April 11, 2018, 08:10:33 pm
Quote from: Dupre on April 11, 2018, 07:31:35 pm
You shouldn't be able to play in the first place. You never even did your essay that we agreed on.  Anyone else I could care less but you've been the biggest pile of shit out of everyone I have dealt with in crpg.

I think you're a bigger pile of shit than he is.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: zottlmarsch on April 11, 2018, 09:52:05 pm
Quote from: Dupre on April 11, 2018, 07:31:35 pm
Anyone else I could care less but you've been the biggest pile of shit out of everyone I have dealt with in crpg.

I wish you mericans would get this phrase right, it's COULDN'T care less, could care less makes no sense at all!

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Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: StonedSteel on April 11, 2018, 11:38:58 pm
Quote from: Dupre on April 11, 2018, 07:31:35 pm
You shouldn't be able to play in the first place. You never even did your essay that we agreed on.  Anyone else I could care less but you've been the biggest pile of shit out of everyone I have dealt with in crpg.

id much rather play with havelle than you. you are a complete nothing/nobody garbage tier player with terrible fucking ideas only people with aids could possibly come up with. havelle is a legend, you are NOBODY dupre, i wouldnt be surprised in the slightest if you were related to asheram irl, how the fuck you got yourself in a position to judge other ACTUAL players in this mod.

shut the fuck up dupre, you pushed so many actual players away from this mod, and you're gonna talk shit about havelle?
and who the fuck joins the game when you are playing?
fuck your essay, you should duel havelle, it would be a good reminder why you dont have total noobs balance this place.

also: if you think havelle is THEE biggest POS this mod has ever had to offer, you're fucking retarded, and dont know shit about this place.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: chesterotab on April 12, 2018, 12:19:23 am
Quote from: StonedSteel on April 11, 2018, 11:38:58 pm


Your posting style upsets my inner Quan greatly. I agree Havelle is cool and should be unbanned, but i just cant shake being upset at the random words you decided to write in all caps and the semi offensive hyperbole directed at Dupre. Insult the man for being a thin skinned nancy boy, not for whatever the fuck you are rambling about.

Oh, and you threw shade at warband/crpg legend Asheram? You're on thin ice Plumbo.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: kasMVC on April 12, 2018, 12:36:52 am
If you don't like the way plumbo types you are a blopie tbh
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Asheram on April 12, 2018, 01:09:03 am
Quote from: zottlmarsch on April 11, 2018, 09:52:05 pm
I wish you mericans would get this phrase right, it's COULDN'T care less, could care less makes no sense at all!

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

So what Dupre was trying to say was he care more than he wanted to admit.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Asheram on April 12, 2018, 01:14:04 am
Quote from: chesterotab on April 12, 2018, 12:19:23 am
Oh, and you threw shade at warband/crpg legend Asheram? You're on thin ice Plumbo.
I don't mind as I actually feel a slight amount of pity for plumbo, he doesn't even know how to use proper captalisation and punctuation. The poor kid probably grew up in a trailer park and couldn't afford a proper education.
We all have our our demons (http://youtu.be/VkvOLB7Yzhs)
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Dupre on April 12, 2018, 01:15:04 am
Quote from: StonedSteel on April 11, 2018, 11:38:58 pm
id much rather play with havelle than you. you are a complete nothing/nobody garbage tier player with terrible fucking ideas only people with aids could possibly come up with. havelle is a legend, you are NOBODY dupre, i wouldnt be surprised in the slightest if you were related to asheram irl, how the fuck you got yourself in a position to judge other ACTUAL players in this mod.

shut the fuck up dupre, you pushed so many actual players away from this mod, and you're gonna talk shit about havelle?
and who the fuck joins the game when you are playing?
fuck your essay, you should duel havelle, it would be a good reminder why you dont have total noobs balance this place.

also: if you think havelle is THEE biggest POS this mod has ever had to offer, you're fucking retarded, and dont know shit about this place.

I said Havelle is the biggest piece of shit I have ever dealt with. This doesn't mean hes the biggest piece of shit in crpg. I'd like to actually crown you with that title. You're also by far the dumbest player in all crpg.

Honestly, I feel sorry for you plumbo. I really hope you aren't this retarded outside crpg forums.

Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on April 12, 2018, 01:30:06 am
O shit we having this thread again? Can we just quote ourselves from the last times? If anyone actually goes through their posts and just quotes all their responses that would be hilarious
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Jona on April 12, 2018, 01:37:03 am
Quote from: Tristan_of_Erzoth on April 12, 2018, 01:30:06 am
O shit we having this thread again? Can we just quote ourselves from the last times? If anyone actually goes through their posts and just quotes all their responses that would be hilarious

Link the thread so I don't have to go through my post history to do so.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Kadeth on April 12, 2018, 01:53:25 am
DUEL

FT7

DUEL DUEL DUEL
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Dupre on April 12, 2018, 02:17:57 am
Quote from: Havelle Registered Voter on April 12, 2018, 02:07:58 am
I'll ft7 Dupre

acab

I'll duel after the wipe.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: StonedSteel on April 12, 2018, 02:55:11 am
you'll lose regardless, fuck does it matter when you lose?
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Jona on April 12, 2018, 02:56:07 am
Quote from: StonedSteel on April 12, 2018, 02:55:11 am
you'll lose regardless, fuck does it matter when you lose?

I guess the joke being the wipe ain't gonna happen, so never.
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Kadeth on April 12, 2018, 03:16:51 am
Speaking of epic FT7s, when is cassi vs rando scheduled for?
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Algarn on April 12, 2018, 12:06:44 pm
december 2010
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: N1PS on April 12, 2018, 06:39:28 pm
pls wipe
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Larvae on April 13, 2018, 06:14:44 am
+ wipe again
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on April 14, 2018, 11:19:28 am
Quote from: Dupre on April 11, 2018, 07:31:35 pm
You shouldn't be able to play in the first place. You never even did your essay that we agreed on.  Anyone else I could care less but you've been the biggest pile of shit out of everyone I have dealt with in crpg.

thank G-D. finally, some leadership from the admins in this mod. you know, it takes some real character and integrity to stick to your guns like that in the face of so much adversity. i am absolutely sick and completely tired of those petulant children SOLELY CONSUMING the FREE product that you have helped maintain so selflessly; without payment or compensation aside from getting bitched at on the forums.

don't these people understand that we're all signatories to the same social contract permitting those carefully selected individuals to enforce the diktats necessary to produce the most enjoyable experience for the most people?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Rando on April 14, 2018, 02:17:11 pm
@Dupre#6267 hey retard
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Peasant_Woman on April 14, 2018, 02:36:28 pm
Wipe is growing on me honestly.

Looming endlessly loses all meaning if you have nobody to play against/with.
When we do wipe, make sure to announce it everywhere, the modDB page, discord, Steam etc. so we attain maximum new and returning players!
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: fetus on April 14, 2018, 04:29:04 pm
"If more people valued home above gold ... this world would be a merrier place."
-Thorin Oakenshield
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Grumbs on April 14, 2018, 08:34:44 pm
Just wipe it 100% or don't wipe at all. A split community will be worse than it is now.

A wipe will reduce the power gap temporarily which could increase the amount of players (newbies), but once some people have retired a few times the power gap will be exponentially in their favour, then the mod will be worse than it is now with newbies getting wrecked more than now. People want a wipe to make a more even playing field, but then the playing field will be way more uneven after like a month at most because people will get looms and then eventually those people will stop retiring and stick with a high level character. Then you will have the shitters + the newbs + the guys that cba wasting time on a dead mod trying to get looms vs the people who no life the game. Then it will be 10x worse than now in terms of power gap between players. Its much better when its shitters vs decent players like it was before (when people played). Just get more balancers involved in the mod and make it seem like its less of an elitist club for ranged vs melee players with only ranged players who balance

The other idea for a wipe is that it gives goals to players that have "unlocked" everything already because they played since like 2010. They have loads of max level gear and feel like they have no more goals. But Why wipe everything to give people more goals? Just add more thing that people can unlock. Tweak the power available in the items and add more tiers while restricting the overall power no lifers have. Just nerf +1,, +2, +3 and add +4 as a new level. And make all items grow on a power curve that gives really shitty benefits at +4 but still gives something that makes people think its worth wasting their time trying to achieve. Maybe add some cosmetic bonuses or really tiny benefits
Title: Re: the deve wipe?
Post by: Oberyn on April 14, 2018, 10:40:44 pm
Quote
if a man only has looms on an empty server, does he really have any looms at all?
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