Yeah, because them doing or not doing it has such a big impact on your life.Avoiding tax payments has...
Yeah, because them doing or not doing it has such a big impact on your life.
Yeah, so? You think anything would be different if they hadn't done this?
You think anything will change after this? Suddenly taxes are cut by 10%? What? And is anyone really surprised the rich are finding ways to avoid paying taxes? Does anyone think they won't continue to do so?
Technically the money would be in the legally appropriate place.Yes, but again -- so? My heart's pumping piss-water for the government and their legal money. If I were rich, I wouldn't want to give a cut of my profits to the government either, just so politicians can spend it on something useless. Or worse than useless. It's in the interest of the state that people are concerned about what's "legal" and that they get their "just" taxes, but it's not in your interest to be concerned about it.
As I've already said, we've all pretty much knew this was happening. The difference now is that there seems to be very concrete proof that this is happening and there seem to be investigations going on. I'm not keeping my hopes up, but something good might come out of this. I don't think anyone really believes the rich will suddenly just stop avoiding taxes either. Not everything is either a 0 or a 1, Xant.Nothing good will come out of this. IRS and equivalent discover similar things all the time. It's good news for them, should be indifferent news to anyone else. Well, the media is loving it too, they're selling tickets to the circus after all, but aside from that...
Yes, but again -- so? My heart's pumping piss-water for the government and their legal money. If I were rich, I wouldn't want to give a cut of my profits to the government either, just so politicians can spend it on something useless. Or worse than useless. It's in the interest of the state that people are concerned about what's "legal" and that they get their "just" taxes, but it's not in your interest to be concerned about it.
Xant most tax systems work on compliance. Most people comply because of feared consequences. Most people get upset and angry when they see other people, that consider themselves above the law, not pay their share. If prison sentences and confiscations result from this, then it has the salutary effect that crime doesn't always pay and that sometimes the big boys get taken down, no matter how much smarter they think they are than everyone else. Concrete evidence is much harder to ignore than rumor and supposition.Yes, but - and I realize I've said this over and over - so what?
Don't understand why anyone cares about this shit
The total amount of money involved is just silly, to the point that evasion has a serious impact on your country's budget. Whether that concerns you or not is for you to decide. And yes while it is impossible to eliminate the issue entirely (taxes being effectively regressive through evasion is really what we're talking about here), it's doesn't mean there's no point in taking steps against it. Actually, even with little effort the right people in the right places of the judicial system can and do make wonders. Considering that international finance is almost integrally *designed* to make evasion easy and legal, yes there are things to do. Not anything to be emotional about, sure, but then again nothing is. Awareness and complacency are two different things.No one has said that steps shouldn't be taken against it. It just shouldn't concern you unless you work for your country's IRS. No one makes a big deal about what IRS does on the regular, but suddenly it's very interesting because the media says it is.
Also, Overdriven is absolutely taking this emotionally.
It's nice that traffic lights work and someone goes out there and maintains them, but that doesn't mean it's terribly interesting to me, personally, and I don't see why it would be to someone else either, even if the media's breaking news was that humans maintain traffic lights, not magic. I certainly don't see what the point of talking about it is.
It's nice that traffic lights work and someone goes out there and maintains them, but that doesn't mean it's terribly interesting to me, personally, and I don't see why it would be to someone else either, even if the media's breaking news was that humans maintain traffic lights, not magic. I certainly don't see what the point of talking abou
No one has said that steps shouldn't be taken against it. It just shouldn't concern you unless you work for your country's IRS. No one makes a big deal about what IRS does on the regular, but suddenly it's very interesting because the media says it is.
It's nice that traffic lights work and someone goes out there and maintains them, but that doesn't mean it's terribly interesting to me, personally, and I don't see why it would be to someone else either, even if the media's breaking news was that humans maintain traffic lights, not magic. I certainly don't see what the point of talking about it is.
It's just funny how the government's self-serving agenda is (once again) swallowed whole by The People as their own, because, by golly, no one should be doing X if I can't do X. Basic human jealousy.
What's your point? That revenue services being more efficient at tracking fraud is not beneficial (though indirectly) to people who would pay their taxes anyway? It is a completely self-serving position to hold for them (and only for them, indeed).Make a prediction. What good will come out of this? What do you expect to happen? What concrete thing is going to change?
As long as the traffic lights work there's nothing to talk about, you're right.Taxation is working as intended.
Make a prediction. What good will come out of this? What do you expect to happen? What concrete thing is going to change?
Taxation is working as intended.
Don't understand why anyone cares about this shitBecause they're avoiding tax payment which means that the money has to come from somewhere. And that somewhere is US. If you're seriously that ignorant that you have to ask "WHY DOES ANYONE CARE ABOUT THE FACT THAT MANY RICH PEOPLE ARE BREAKING THE LAW AND EVADING TAX, COSTING THE PEOPLE MORE THAN THEY SHOULD BE PAYING" then I honestly don't even know how to respond.
The really surprising thing about this is that all this stuff was going through one single firm, incredibly sloppy. They must have felt completely confident that there is no evidence for crime and that was the mistake. Because in the leak there is really no direct evidence for crime, but the sheer amount of data and networks it shows which you can check upon existing evidence is the real deal here.
Xant, wtf?
Also no/few US people named (yet)? Just seems kinda weird. Either they do it another way or through another company, or they're not being exposed yet for some reason.
Because there's nothing illegal about having an offshore account, it's one of the smartest retirement plans you could have to spend the rest of your life on a permanent vacation in the tropics. I still haven't seen any proof that the Icelandic PM did anything illegal, does anyone have a link to the actual leak docus? The problem is that there are corrupt governments that would allow people to bring the tax free investments back to their home countries without paying their share of the tax rate, if you tried doing this and returning to the US you would get raped by the IRS, some less than fortunate country's government might encourage this type of illegal activity to bring money back into their economy.
This what? I'm talking about tax evasion in general. And yes, I expect that more money coming in via an increase in tax efficiency does lead to more public services, less public debt and less taxation eventually.What is eventually? Half a year, a year, two years?
If you pay taxes and bills regularly, you must feel like a fool when you see something like this. It is natural response. If everybody was behaving like these criminals, dear Xant, your Finland would be a lot more like Russia. That means you have to pay for shit you're used to being free (paid by state aka tax money) and you would be robbed in the process.Yeah, if everyone was behaving like billionaires, sure thing, Leshma, dear. You go ahead and try not paying taxes. Let me know how it works out for you.
Theres legal tax evasion then there's illegal tax evasion. And there's lots of illegal tax evasion in these documents, apparently.
http://www.bbc.com/news/35956324
Guys, let's say you own 1 billion dollars. You have a choice of giving, let's say, ~40% of it - 400 millions or keep it all. Yes, giving it to government will lead to having better roads in country, healthcare and other stuff (in theory), but you don't need it because you have a private jet and healthcare facility with your name on the building.
I'm not defending tax evasion, but their actions are perfectly understandable from their perspective.
Seems like a witchhunt to me so far, none of these news articles are explaining anything illegal, they are just dramatizing the stigma of owning an offshore account. In the story she merely paid a legal firm to transfer the money out of the offshore account and do the legal fees and tax accounting to bring the money home for her the correct and legal way, it's actually very complicated and costs alot of money to do it the legal way and if you fuck up it can cost you big time.
So hiring someone to forge documents and have a person pretend as the real owner of a company to avoid taxation is not illegal? Did you even read the article?
Since it's an offshore account that is tax free they don't have to announce the beneficiary to the offshore bank, they only have to announce it to authorities where they are transferring the money. She paid a firm to do it for her legally and save her the hassle of travelling to overseas to do all the paperwork and stuff.
No, she did it so she could hide how much money she has, to avoid taxes. Not to 'avoid the hassle of travelling'. You don't fucking hire a law firm and pay large amounts of money so they can hire someone to pretend to be the beneficiary just so you 'avoid the paperwork and stuff'.
Also no/few US people named (yet)? Just seems kinda weird. Either they do it another way or through another company, or they're not being exposed yet for some reason.http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2016/04/the-panama-papers-where-are-the-americans-000083 (http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2016/04/the-panama-papers-where-are-the-americans-000083)
It's nice that traffic lights work and someone goes out there and maintains them, but that doesn't mean it's terribly interesting to me, personally, and I don't see why it would be to someone else either, even if the media's breaking news was that humans maintain traffic lights, not magic. I certainly don't see what the point of talking about it is.If the guy fixing the light is not joing his job correctly his boss will fire him up. Now if a politican is not doing his job correctly who's going to fire him up, Iceland PM would not have resigned if people didn't put pressure on him. Politcians are corrupted enough with pressure from the press and the people, just look how it goes in the US when no ones cares about politicians taking money from firms and lobbys. Sure indignation is not the most efficient way to make things advance but before we get some better democratic system that's the best people have pull out so far (btw iceland is trying to have some reformation of its democratic system to have a better control over its politicians, their new constitution is pretty intersting and its process of its creation too).
Guys, let's say you own 1 billion dollars. You have a choice of giving, let's say, ~40% of it - 400 millions or keep it all. Yes, giving it to government will lead to having better roads in country, healthcare and other stuff (in theory), but you don't need it because you have a private jet and healthcare facility with your name on the building.Or it'll lead to the government shoveling those 400 millions to "Syrian" refugees who bring rape and terror with them. Why would you want to pay your hard earned money for retarded causes like that?
I'm not defending tax evasion, but their actions are perfectly understandable from their perspective.
Xant, what has been the net impact of the existence of a central government in your country over your past life, positive or negative? As opposed to anarchy, I mean.Negative. I would be some kind of an obscenely rich warlord if it weren't for those meddling fools.
In my country, the government is also shoveling millions to pay schools and hospitals, just saying.Yes, of course, they must keep up appearances, mustn't they, Kafein? There are more effective ways to fund such things.
Negative. I would be some kind of an obscenely rich warlord if it weren't for those meddling fools.
Yes, of course, they must keep up appearances, mustn't they, Kafein?
There are more effective ways to fund such things.
I don't think you would, but this is an hypothetical anyway.I would literally - yes, literally - be a Finnish Genghis Khan. With me, the glorious master race, Finns, would rise anew. It'd be a new Golden Age for all Europe, after it was brought under my yoke. Yea, I would be a harsh but fair master. And I would institute land value tax.
Such life goals.
And before we disparage them for their choices...how many of you download entertainment for free? How many filed taxes for cash only transactions?
Ranking these as anything but inconsequential would be failing to understand the point of taxation.
There's only one way to settle this, Xant and Kafein.
RL duel. No clothes. No weapons. All man.
That's a good observation, and the crux of the matter, really.
And before we disparage them for their choices...how many of you download entertainment for free? How many filed taxes for cash only transactions?
I don't know if a lot of the rage that stems from the 'common man' is due to the impact of untaxed revenue, though.
Xant and Kafein aren't real people. Didn't chadz tell you about them?You take that back.
Xant, what has been the net impact of the existence of a central government in your country over your past life, positive or negative? As opposed to anarchy, I mean.
In my country, the government is also shoveling millions to pay schools and hospitals, just saying.
You take that back.
Really nice job of the journalists. Didn't see that comming. An actual international joint venture of newspapers and channels getting shit done. Of course with the own interest of boosting paper sales and audience but fighting fire with fire works capitalismwise I guess. Must have been kinda disappointing though für the Süddeutsche Zeitung - who got the raw data - that there has been no German involved(afaik).At least nobody as juicy as Cameron.
Its perfectly legal to avoid taxes in this way. Hacking isnt.
For rich people like me, its well worth doing it. But for the poor plebs the few % of less tax is not significant enough on their "pocketmoney" like assets to even bother.
The poor will always blame the rich and successful people. Its easier to blame another, instead of getting up from your lazy couch and work your ass off.
And now we get these waves of social justice warriors trying to name and shame people. Plebs think they so smart, while all they do is have a hair-trigger reaction when shit hits the fan. While they failed to even understand the law on taxes and noticed this was possible... and could have appealed to it earlier.
Plebs are so ignorant, that you can write laws down infront of their eyes, have them in books for decades... and they wont even notice the loopholes.
Haters gonna hate.
Plebs gonna pleb.
Bitcoins is introduced... thats even more perfect for legally avoiding taxes. But nobody cried then, cause Bitcoin made it lucrative for plebs and rich alike.
No one is getting upset about legal tax evasion
Not only is money wasted, it also creates a ton of drug-related crime. Violent crime that wouldn't exist if drugs were legal.
https://www.byline.com/project/48/article/966
Very interesting read, slightly connected to Panama but an actual real scandal in the UK.
https://www.byline.com/project/48/article/966
Very interesting read, slightly connected to Panama but an actual real scandal in the UK.