cRPG

Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: Sir_Hans on March 07, 2016, 08:14:59 pm

Title: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Sir_Hans on March 07, 2016, 08:14:59 pm
Given the possibility to vote in America's presidential race (if you are american or otherwise) Who would you vote for?

No bernie sanders, This is assuming hilary/trump wins primaries.

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Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on March 07, 2016, 08:33:56 pm
In such a case, regardless of what has been said so far, Trump is still ironically the better choice. Or maybe this is what the whole crooked election system of USA is all about: Settling for the lesser evil. As I chose above though, I'd not even bother voting.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Kafein on March 07, 2016, 08:52:54 pm
I can still vote for independents. No way I'm voting for either of those two.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Sir_Hans on March 07, 2016, 09:18:31 pm
I can still vote for independents. No way I'm voting for either of those two.

Feel free but that's pretty much identical to not voting.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Thovex on March 07, 2016, 09:19:19 pm
lmfao america
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Prpavi on March 07, 2016, 09:20:18 pm
Feel free but that's pretty much identical to not voting.

That's exactly what I do
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Gurgumul on March 07, 2016, 09:30:00 pm
Like any of it matters. Regardless of who wins, your American lives will remain unchanged.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Sir_Hans on March 07, 2016, 09:33:31 pm
Yeah most likely, but we might get a super cool great wall of america adorned with 3d animated images of eagles and american flags waving in the wind.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on March 07, 2016, 09:45:37 pm
Yeah most likely, but we might get a super cool great wall of america adorned with 3d animated images of eagles and american flags waving in the wind.

All of that is the persona part of things. In the end, both will be inevitably serving the same clockwork mechanism. The voting is simply a freak show to entertain the masses.

My own country is being dragged into the same sewage pit at the moment. The bipolar separation is already done: Republicans vs. Conservatives, both eventually serving the creamy layer of society with their intrinsic ways of dealing with the rest. We only lack the presidency system. And Tardogan is on it right now. He will bark and bite like a rabid dog until it is done.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Sir_Hans on March 07, 2016, 10:00:20 pm
All of that is the persona part of things. In the end, both will be inevitably serving the same clockwork mechanism. The voting is simply a freak show to entertain the masses.

My own country is being dragged into the same sewage pit at the moment. The bipolar separation is already done: Republicans vs. Conservatives, both eventually serving the creamy layer of society with their intrinsic ways of dealing with the rest. We only lack the presidency system. And Tardogan is on it right now. He will bark and bite like a rabid dog until it is done.

I can agree with that first part. Most likely Trump will end up rolling with the political elites plans anyways and little to nil will change (Or he will be kennedied)... But there is a difference right now between hilary and trump. Hilary is a groomed politician, Just like Bill was, Just like Bush, Just like Obama. Trump on the other hand is definitely not a groomed politician... It's blatantly obvious in his speeches I've heard and quotes I've read that nobody writes his speeches for him, at the moment nobody is telling him what to say.

TBH if the republican party put one of those "Magic 8-balls
(click to show/hide)
" as their republican candidate for the elections I would vote for it, simply because the magic 8-ball is not a groomed politician either.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on March 07, 2016, 10:13:23 pm
Trump is clearly not the horse everyone bet on in the beginning. That is obvious. Yet he will still be made "the horse", if he somehow makes it. And then he will have a full staff writing speeches for him. Or they might even let him talk shit on and on just to keep the cover up, to make it look like there were actually choices and the mighty people have made one.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Leshma on March 07, 2016, 11:34:51 pm
Q: What's the difference between two party and one party political system?
A: One party.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Torben on March 07, 2016, 11:50:23 pm
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: LordBerenger on March 08, 2016, 01:15:53 am
Add Bernie, Cruz and Rubio
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Christo on March 08, 2016, 02:29:59 am
Either way, America is fucked.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Kafein on March 08, 2016, 09:01:40 pm
Feel free but that's pretty much identical to not voting.

What do I personally gain out of choosing one option out of two I almost equally despise? Voting for either would be accepting that this vote somehow represents a decent share of my opinions. That would be a total travesty, and the only real way to waste my vote, probably worse than not voting at all.

As for being identical to not voting, the elections are the only opinion polls that actually matter. People from both major parties look at how the independents are doing. Look at France, a country that if anything has a weaker bipartite culture but still, the rise of FN has fundamentally changed how the two main parties position themselves. Even if FN never gets into power, they already created deep changes in french politics. Strong independents are among the only way to get politicians from major parties to do the things you want them to do.

This view that elections are there to choose a majority is overly simplistic. Don't forget, politicians usually play a long game, and winning that long game involves more than anything else to know where the wind is blowing. Elections are the best way to tell that.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Algarn on March 09, 2016, 01:15:12 am
What do I personally gain out of choosing one option out of two I almost equally despise? Voting for either would be accepting that this vote somehow represents a decent share of my opinions. That would be a total travesty, and the only real way to waste my vote, probably worse than not voting at all.

As for being identical to not voting, the elections are the only opinion polls that actually matter. People from both major parties look at how the independents are doing. Look at France, a country that if anything has a weaker bipartite culture but still, the rise of FN has fundamentally changed how the two main parties position themselves. Even if FN never gets into power, they already created deep changes in french politics. Strong independents are among the only way to get politicians from major parties to do the things you want them to do.

This view that elections are there to choose a majority is overly simplistic. Don't forget, politicians usually play a long game, and winning that long game involves more than anything else to know where the wind is blowing. Elections are the best way to tell that.

Well, if FN, or any kind of extreme left or right party gets elected, they'll make things go worse certainly, much more than by staying out of power. Look at the PiS in Poland, I'm sure that the newly elected FN wouldn't spit on imposing their own rules and stuff. But you're right on the point that they completely destroyed bipartism, along with the traditional left versus right wing ideology. I don't think I'd have imaginated, even remotely, having a left wing government promoting laws in favor of enterprises, or the deprivation of nationality when Hollande was elected back in 2012.

And on topic, both candidates are liars, and I'm disappointed that so many people didn't choose the 3rd option.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Jeade on March 09, 2016, 06:59:02 pm
Well, between Clinton and Trump, instead of not voting, I'll write in or go independent.
And no, it's not
pretty much identical to not voting.

If everyone actually voted for who they wanted and ignored party lines, elections would look quite different.
A very common sentiment in the US is "voting for the lesser of two evils" and it's something I've found most will admit when asked about it.
Even if your third party guy doesn't win, it can make waves, and that's good enough for me. Keep 'em on their toes.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Sir_Hans on March 09, 2016, 07:38:44 pm
It is virtually identical to not voting.
All it does is deny your vote from both democratic and republican party. Same as not voting.

True if everyone ignored party lines it would look much different, but it would look pretty much identical if those same people just didn't vote. UNLESS an independent candidate actually won, which isn't really going to happen at all... Sadly it's a money game and candidates who run independent rarely have the funds to compete with republican/democratic parties regardless of how much better that independent candidate is over republican/democratic front runners.

If you vote independent and you see an independent candidate voted into office in your lifetime I will eat my hat.

Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: LordBerenger on March 09, 2016, 07:57:42 pm
Well, between Clinton and Trump, instead of not voting, I'll write in or go independent.
And no, it's not
If everyone actually voted for who they wanted and ignored party lines, elections would look quite different.
A very common sentiment in the US is "voting for the lesser of two evils" and it's something I've found most will admit when asked about it.
Even if your third party guy doesn't win, it can make waves, and that's good enough for me. Keep 'em on their toes.

Vote Bernie Sanders
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Kafein on March 09, 2016, 08:51:29 pm
It is virtually identical to not voting.
All it does is deny your vote from both democratic and republican party. Same as not voting.

True if everyone ignored party lines it would look much different, but it would look pretty much identical if those same people just didn't vote. UNLESS an independent candidate actually won, which isn't really going to happen at all... Sadly it's a money game and candidates who run independent rarely have the funds to compete with republican/democratic parties regardless of how much better that independent candidate is over republican/democratic front runners.

If you vote independent and you see an independent candidate voted into office in your lifetime I will eat my hat.

You don't get it. What you vote for doesn't depend on the outcome. Your vote matters regardless. Sure, a lot of people play the second order beauty contest but that's just one of the many silly things that douchebag tribal brain likes to do. What you as an intelligent person is actually interested in is not the specifics of who is elected but rather the specifics of what gets done. The first part only partially determines the other, and then to a varying degree. By voting for what you really want, you are changing the balance of ideologies in the democratic market and more importantly by making that statement in an election, you are much more strongly influencing the perception of that ideological balance. That is how you create actual political change, without grabbing a gun anyway.

Just make a thought experiment: if Bernie Sanders goes independent and gets 15% of voters (in a proportional way, i.e. counting human voters), do you think the decisions of the next government will be exactly the same as if he had 5%? Do you think that next elections, the positions on Bernie's strong issues by the major parties will not change? And if you want to look at things from another perspective, if you vote for a major party, you vote is worth exactly the same weight as that of any uninformed drone. In fact, it is indistinguishable from it. What good is it to disagree with somebody if you are still going to vote for them? Why do you even care?
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Sir_Hans on March 09, 2016, 09:29:09 pm
Don't get me wrong, I don't care too much. I am not against anyone voting independent. I just think it changes very little, though if we're talking about bernie here than no doubt the majority of people who would be voting Bernie Sanders would, if faced with a better candidate than hilary, most likely vote democratic. Which honestly I would be thrilled for, The more democrats who vote independent when bernie doesn't win democratic primaries, the less votes hilary gets. Which just increases Trumps chances at winning.  :mrgreen:

To answer your question, No, I don't think the decisions of the next government (same government) will be altered in any meaningful way because of 15% voters going independent. Candidates in future elections may try to adopt bernie's stances on the campaign trail but I don't think it will change their decisions once they get in office.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Bronto on March 10, 2016, 02:45:58 am
The sad truth is, it doesn't matter. Only 1 election in history came down to citizen voters, the rest determined by the electoral college. We're in for whatever is planned and more politicians doing jack shit except preserving their cushy jobs, superior health care, and fat salaries. I am disappointed in all of the options we've been given and will probably vote for myself. You all should do the same. Bronto 2016. I'll legalize weed, remove obamacare so we have a competitive market and lower rates once again, and instead of a wall, I'll build a moat. We're surrounded by water on two sides, I'll make it four!
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: LordBerenger on March 10, 2016, 04:06:05 am
2020, Kanye West will be elected president. Save this post for future reference.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Jeade on March 10, 2016, 09:05:35 am
Candidates in future elections may try to adopt bernie's stances

But really, Clinton already has.
If Sanders had been running independent and had challenged Clinton as much as he currently is, would you still consider casting an independent vote useless?

Now, you're right; mindless drones will vote along party lines, but that's less a failure of a two party system as it is a failure of morons being allowed to vote based off whatever they see on CNN and Fox.

Let me give you an example.
Prior to my employment as best NA cRPG admin (sit the fuck down, Artyem), I was a campaign director for a Green Party guy in Saint Louis, MO.
A good number of folks I spoke to were avid supporters of the currently seated Democrat, although a fair portion shared their concerns about both her policies and length of term.
We managed to get our guy 30% of the vote (which was absolutely remarkable in St. Louis politics and US politics in general, for that matter), and we're hoping to see a trend.
It showed the establishment that people were upset, and that they had an actual chance at losing their power.
Did they lose it? No. No they didn't. But the Green Party paved the way for future campaigns, and they took a little power away from the mainstream Democrats in the process.
That, good sir, is a victory. Not the victory we hoped for, but a victory nonetheless.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Beauchamp on March 10, 2016, 12:11:51 pm
Either way, America is we all are fucked.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Molly on March 10, 2016, 12:27:34 pm
Trump. Just for lulz...  :twisted:
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Casul on March 10, 2016, 12:44:27 pm
Honestly I dont see why a lot here hate Clinton as much as Trump.

Pls explain :C
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Algarn on March 10, 2016, 04:50:45 pm
Honestly I dont see why a lot here hate Clinton as much as Trump.

Pls explain :C

Because she changes her opinions year after year.

Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Yeldur on March 10, 2016, 04:54:25 pm
i'd vote for Trump if I was NAmy old friend just purely on the basis that it's a multiple choice question with no correct answer, but Trump would be the more hilary(ous) option.

either way america is fucked so may as well die hilariously
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Gurgumul on March 10, 2016, 06:58:05 pm
Did anyone notice how they looked like normal humans some time ago, but now they turned into lizards?
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Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Tibes on March 10, 2016, 08:10:51 pm
Vote Bernie Sanders

Despite me being totally for what Bernie stands and promises, I dont think he can accomplish any of it. The main issue of it is, that most american people are so fucking heavly right winged, that even the slightest movement to the left gets such an insane shitstorm of backlash. Even if Bernie would win, hes gonna have so much fights in his hands, that its unlikely he will get anything accomplished.

I always considered the typical US voter to be the kind of person who repeatedly shoots himself in the foot and than complains how its the governments fault that they are bleeding. And when a guy like Bernie comes, smacks the guns out of their hands, they call him a communist and keep shooting themselves. Poor Bernie's just to good for US. Mybe it really is better to vote for Trump. When it burns to the ground mybe they will be more willing to change.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Kafein on March 10, 2016, 09:05:39 pm
Because she changes her opinions year after year.

I would say that's ok, that's what politicians are there for, representing. Changing positions doesn't matter as long as it doesn't occur between the campaign and what you actually implement if you win.

Now, why I wouldn't vote Hillary is the email thing, her campaign funding and SJW nonsense. SJW nonsense also my main problem with Sanders, some of his economic policies being fairyland fantasies notwithstanding. At least he doesn't make his whole campaign "Vote for me because I used to have a vag" like Hillary does.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Xant on March 10, 2016, 09:06:32 pm
Did anyone notice how they looked like normal humans some time ago, but now they turned into lizards?
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It's called aging.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Kafein on March 10, 2016, 09:07:39 pm
It's called aging.

5 seconds more and I'd post rigorously the same thing.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Leshma on March 10, 2016, 10:01:12 pm
I would say that's ok, that's what politicians are there for, representing. Changing positions doesn't matter as long as it doesn't occur between the campaign and what you actually implement if you win.

Now, why I wouldn't vote Hillary is the email thing, her campaign funding and SJW nonsense. SJW nonsense also my main problem with Sanders, some of his economic policies being fairyland fantasies notwithstanding. At least he doesn't make his whole campaign "Vote for me because I used to have a vag" like Hillary does.

Why are you thinking so much about it? It is not like you can vote.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Yeldur on March 10, 2016, 10:14:49 pm
Why are you thinking so much about it? It is not like you can vote.
Some people just enjoy political discussion, be it from their country or others.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: LordBerenger on March 10, 2016, 10:17:07 pm
More like shapeshifting lizard, illuminati aging.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: pogosan on March 10, 2016, 10:24:46 pm
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Kafein on March 10, 2016, 10:53:28 pm
Why are you thinking so much about it? It is not like you can vote.

I could be able to if I had 3 months to lose.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Vibe on March 18, 2016, 10:34:26 am
So we have a serial liar and an insane person. Pretty tough choice. Too bad it's not looking too good for Bernie, but he's not giving up. I would rather vote for a dreamer than a liar. But I think America needs a couple more generations to pass and a bit more divide between the classes in capitalism to vote a president like Bernie.
Title: Re: C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.
Post by: Asheram on April 22, 2016, 12:43:52 am