cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => The Chamber of Tears => Topic started by: ROHYPNOL on September 01, 2015, 11:48:21 pm
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Please just do something with these couching lances dumbing down the entire skill field of playing as a lance cav. I don't even play it anymore, but revert the lance angles or something with a slight damage buff... I get tired of seeing these really crappy cav jump on horseback with a 1 shot couch lance.
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Cav still requires skill and is extremely effective class even without couching. That said, couching is the single most lamest thing in this game - even more so than crossbows - and serves no purpose whatsoever.
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get yourself a heavy lance, outreach and headshot them.
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Heavy lance honestly sucks, and the angles nerf sucks also. Revert the angle to native, like it used to be and it required more skillful lancer vs lancer battles, in which the good ones really shined. Now if you want lancer vs lancer you chase the guy in the back and he can do nothing. I understand cav is effective, but that goes for anything right? Im simply saying make it more skillful.. Also hitting and archer 5 times with a heavy lance while he is wearing cloth is pretty unacceptable, only for him to 2 shot your crappy horse if that is what you are using. I also understand people get frustrated by getting ran over by them, but at the same time it is extremely easy to down a cav with honestly just about any weapon.
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totally would love the old lance angle back for cav vs cav fights. I guess against inf it would be op though.
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totally would love the old lance angle back for cav vs cav fights. I guess against inf it would be op though.
It would probably glance a lot to be honest. The wider your lance angle, the less speed bonus you have. The damage without a high speed bonus is awful.
Unfortunately, the speed bonus needs to be modified somehow, if possible, I believe the speed of the infantry movement being hit by cav has too much effect on damage. Notice how fat tin cans getting couched take a quarter damage when slowly waddling and getting couched in the back. And then if they're moving towards the lancer instead, they take something like 200 damage. When you have a horse going something like 10 times faster than infantry, it doesn't make sense for the infantry's speed to have an effect of that magnitude on the damage received, or conversely given. All that's happened as a result of Tydeus' constant nerfs to cav damage is that cav can only deal damage in ideal situations, which is why couch-only lances have become so popular. I mean a lance cav, who should be the best at fighting other cav can't chase down other cav, because he will glance every time he hits another horse in the back, even if he has the faster horse. As a result, a 1h or 2h cav will instead just try to cause a pile up and start unloading on the lancer.
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It would probably glance a lot to be honest. The wider your lance angle, the less speed bonus you have. The damage without a high speed bonus is awful.
Unfortunately, the speed bonus needs to be modified somehow, if possible, I believe the speed of the infantry movement being hit by cav has too much effect on damage. Notice how fat tin cans getting couched take a quarter damage when slowly waddling and getting couched in the back. And then if they're moving towards the lancer instead, they take something like 200 damage. When you have a horse going something like 10 times faster than infantry, it doesn't make sense for the infantry's speed to have an effect of that magnitude on the damage received, or conversely given. All that's happened as a result of Tydeus' constant nerfs to cav damage is that cav can only deal damage in ideal situations, which is why couch-only lances have become so popular. I mean a lance cav, who should be the best at fighting other cav can't chase down other cav, because he will glance every time he hits another horse in the back, even if he has the faster horse. As a result, a 1h or 2h cav will instead just try to cause a pile up and start unloading on the lancer.
Perfect explination
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back then, when the enemy team had too many cav, two or three brave polearmers got themselves some pikes for the next round and went with the team. And that was it.
Lance cav (without great lance) is damn hard btw and DOES require skill. It´s already ridiculously easy to stop cav with every kind of polearm weapon. Or kill it with a friggin 2h (or 1h!) when you just know a little bit how to move.
We don´t have enough pikers nowadays, but that´s just my 2 cents
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back then, when the enemy team had too many cav, two or three brave polearmers got themselves some pikes for the next round and went with the team. And that was it.
Lance cav (without great lance) is damn hard btw and DOES require skill. It´s already ridiculously easy to stop cav with every kind of polearm weapon. Or kill it with a friggin 2h (or 1h!) when you just know a little bit how to move.
We don´t have enough pikers nowadays, but that´s just my 2 cents
kindoftru
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cav is ded in crpg so now u have 300 range lances couching and swapping into 1h when it can't be used anymore, sounds right.
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Everything said above is true. I really miss the good old days of fighting guys like Oberyn, Tommy, Torben , Leed etc out in the open. Hell, we even had some nice cav tournaments back in the days. The skill cap for lance cav at the moment is way too low since there's not much you can do, except for timing and using your horse properly.
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I feel like am playing a totally different game, I'm a bit confused because most of what you guys said here is completely the opposite of what I've experienced playing as a lancer.
1) Heavy lance is great and does a nice damage, but most importantly, makes you able to 1 vs 1 against most infantry players. If you need 5 hits to kill an archer with it, you're clearly doing something wrong.
2) I mean a lance cav, who should be the best at fighting other cav can't chase down other cav, because he will glance every time he hits another horse in the back, even if he has the faster horse
I had absolutely no problem hitting another cav player I chased down, as long as I didn't fuck up my thrust, same as when stabbing someone at close distance on foot. If you can get close enough behind another cav, hitting him with a lance isn't hard at all.
3) If old lance angle were back, not only it would be OP against infantry, but also completely ruin the balance in cav 1vs1 fights between lancers and 1h/2h.
Couching might be a bit too rewarding for the risk it takes, but I almost never used it as a lancer, because using normal hits was actually easier to aim. As an infantry player, I don't find it too strong as long as I'm aware of the incoming cav. And if I'm not, I'm fucked up anyway.
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I am not playing cav but I feel cav works right. They are quite powerful and dominating as cav should be. I see som riders better than others so I trust skill is still determinant.
The only thing I would praise is to have the sound fixed so that we could hear incoming horses (and run for cover!). Now cav is the new ninja, backstabbing by surprise.
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You can outrange the longest couch only lances with a heavy lance on the thrust. Sure it's a risk, but if you want easy-mode no-risk go agi xbow or lance thrower or something. Great lance cav is the easy nab mode of the cav classes and thus mostly only cav nabs play it. They usually have no idea how to deal with a heavy lance cav that will charge them head on and still outreach them. Good great lance cav are rare but they're usually really sneaky bundle of stickss who will couch only in ambush or surprise situations.
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I feel like am playing a totally different game, I'm a bit confused because most of what you guys said here is completely the opposite of what I've experienced playing as a lancer.
1) Heavy lance is great and does a nice damage, but most importantly, makes you able to 1 vs 1 against most infantry players. If you need 5 hits to kill an archer with it, you're clearly doing something wrong.
2) I had absolutely no problem hitting another cav player I chased down, as long as I didn't fuck up my thrust, same as when stabbing someone at close distance on foot. If you can get close enough behind another cav, hitting him with a lance isn't hard at all.
3) If old lance angle were back, not only it would be OP against infantry, but also completely ruin the balance in cav 1vs1 fights between lancers and 1h/2h.
Couching might be a bit too rewarding for the risk it takes, but I almost never used it as a lancer, because using normal hits was actually easier to aim. As an infantry player, I don't find it too strong as long as I'm aware of the incoming cav. And if I'm not, I'm fucked up anyway.
OP is from NA, the metagame for classes is completely different there. There are very few lancer cav as far as I can tell, at least compared to EU, and most are using couch only great lances.
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I feel like am playing a totally different game, I'm a bit confused because most of what you guys said here is completely the opposite of what I've experienced playing as a lancer.
1) Heavy lance is great and does a nice damage, but most importantly, makes you able to 1 vs 1 against most infantry players. If you need 5 hits to kill an archer with it, you're clearly doing something wrong.
2) I had absolutely no problem hitting another cav player I chased down, as long as I didn't fuck up my thrust, same as when stabbing someone at close distance on foot. If you can get close enough behind another cav, hitting him with a lance isn't hard at all.
3) If old lance angle were back, not only it would be OP against infantry, but also completely ruin the balance in cav 1vs1 fights between lancers and 1h/2h.
Couching might be a bit too rewarding for the risk it takes, but I almost never used it as a lancer, because using normal hits was actually easier to aim. As an infantry player, I don't find it too strong as long as I'm aware of the incoming cav. And if I'm not, I'm fucked up anyway.
1. I liked the heavy lance more than the normal one in the beginning, cuz I was using a balanced build. Now I use a agi build and so the lance is even more effective for that. With the heavy lance I really need allways more than one hit -_- Atleast when I do a normal hit. AND dafuq, cav is maybe made for doing some 1 vs 1s, but for being successfull you gotta be a sneaky asshole doing kills from behind only!
2. Dang, I played cav now in WFAS, Native, Mercenaries, some other mods of warband and in cRPG, but still I fucking suck in lance duels. Dang dude I trained that shit way too long for sucking that much xD So I don't really fight other cavs when I know they are good in that kind of shit :3 Fucking use the sneaky shit and u'll be scoreleader, didn't do worse than 2,7 kd with cav the last months, but I was like really only doing that sneaky shit lol
Actually at all I think cav is the only cav which makes you really think about what u have to do now! I'm 90 % yolocharging with other classes, but as cav I go full tactic and strategy. Ordinary u gotta do some extemporization, but when u'r plan works perfectly u feel like the best :D
3. I think the recent angle is pretty fine. It is for infs and cav a risk to attack each other. Mostly it is harder for the cav to do the hit, but when the inf does a mistake good cavs can imo hit him.
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I feel like am playing a totally different game, I'm a bit confused because most of what you guys said here is completely the opposite of what I've experienced playing as a lancer.
1) Heavy lance is great and does a nice damage, but most importantly, makes you able to 1 vs 1 against most infantry players. If you need 5 hits to kill an archer with it, you're clearly doing something wrong.
2) I had absolutely no problem hitting another cav player I chased down, as long as I didn't fuck up my thrust, same as when stabbing someone at close distance on foot. If you can get close enough behind another cav, hitting him with a lance isn't hard at all.
3) If old lance angle were back, not only it would be OP against infantry, but also completely ruin the balance in cav 1vs1 fights between lancers and 1h/2h.
Couching might be a bit too rewarding for the risk it takes, but I almost never used it as a lancer, because using normal hits was actually easier to aim. As an infantry player, I don't find it too strong as long as I'm aware of the incoming cav. And if I'm not, I'm fucked up anyway.
It was never OP vs infantry and only added more fun to cav vs cav battles. They have far ruined all the fun out of this game. And yes when you chase another cav and hit him in the back, you can hit him, but you are not doing any damage honestly. It make take you 15+ swings to actually kill one unless he is naked or wearing cloth then only around 5.
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And yes when you chase another cav and hit him in the back, you can hit him, but you are not doing any damage honestly
Well then, I can only conclude you just haven't figured out yet how to do it properly, which proves that being a good cav requires at least some skill, which you haven't got yet, a good opportunity to improve. :wink:
When you're riding after another cav at close enough distance you need to do the same exact thing you'd do to stab someone close on foot - aim your stab above your target and as the stab animation continues, direct it down.
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Yes. I believe that couching is very strong even though I suck at it. I feel like the only reason they are powerful is because server pops are low and they have lots of room to run around.
Honestly though horses are easy to deal with while on a high agi build with a semi long weapon. Every build has a weakness. It may be hard to deal with cav angles in full plate, but plate is strong against gross ranged. Maybe I'm just bias cause I suck at cav lol
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actually when the server population is bigger, it is easier to play cav. Constantly some spawn kills, constantly afks standing around^^
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Well then, I can only conclude you just haven't figured out yet how to do it properly, which proves that being a good cav requires at least some skill, which you haven't got yet, a good opportunity to improve. :wink:
When you're riding after another cav at close enough distance you need to do the same exact thing you'd do to stab someone close on foot - aim your stab above your target and as the stab animation continues, direct it down.
I was considered the best cav NA if not the best in the game, I think I know a bit more about cav skill and how it works way more than you brother. :wink:
Maybe some balancers should start listening to some of the skilled players, that play multiple things and are consistently good at everything. That would make too much sense though and not be quite bias enough.
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I was considered the best cav NA if not the best in the game, I think I know a bit more about cav skill and how it works way more than you brother. :wink:
Maybe some balancers should start listening to some of the skilled players, that play multiple things and are consistently good at everything. That would make too much sense though and not be quite bias enough.
And maybe some balancers are decently skilled and play multiple things too. :)
I wasn't trying to sound like a smartass, I know you're good, and that's why I'm really confused about you having any problems with hitting another cav that you are chasing with a lance. Neither I nor any good lancer I saw playing didn't have any problems with that.
If you don't agree with my quote you underlined, what part of it exactly do you find wrong/not working?
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actually when the server population is bigger, it is easier to play cav. Constantly some spawn kills, constantly afks standing around^^
Personaly, I have better result when the population is low. Probably because I never spawnkill and defend my spawn instead :wink:
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And maybe some balancers are decently skilled and play multiple things too. :)
I wasn't trying to sound like a smartass, I know you're good, and that's why I'm really confused about you having any problems with hitting another cav that you are chasing with a lance. Neither I nor any good lancer I saw playing didn't have any problems with that.
If you don't agree with my quote you underlined, what part of it exactly do you find wrong/not working?
Nothing other than that is a trollish way to stab someone on horseback. I don't have problems doing it, and I no longer cav because they took all the fun out of it, then put in these shitty couching lances that it is all scrubs can do even if they have non skill in it... im not being bias just trying to make cav fun again for some people. I believe it is broken that you can only swing straight ahead and why heavy lance is expensive it does the least amount of damage and is slow as hell...
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And yes when you chase another cav and hit him in the back, you can hit him, but you are not doing any damage honestly. It make take you 15+ swings to actually kill one unless he is naked or wearing cloth then only around 5.
I don't have problems doing it
Eh... Maybe what's confusing you is that you think I'm talking about how to glance on a horseman you're chasing. But actually, what I mean is that you can hit with full/decent damage the way I explained above. Well, if you're no longer cav anyway, it doesn't even matter.
As for couching lances, I agree they may be easy, but making the thrust angle on horseback any wider doesn't make any sense to me, that's the worst thing about Native cavalry and I'm exceedingly glad we don't have it in cRPG.
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Eh... Maybe what's confusing you is that you think I'm talking about how to glance on a horseman you're chasing. But actually, what I mean is that you can hit with full/decent damage the way I explained above. Well, if you're no longer cav anyway, it doesn't even matter.
As for couching lances, I agree they may be easy, but making the thrust angle on horseback any wider doesn't make any sense to me, that's the worst thing about Native cavalry and I'm exceedingly glad we don't have it in cRPG.
That would be your personal preference... I know I am not cav anymore but it is not stopping me from giving suggestions for other things. Would you rather I have a bias about something that im currently playing and ask for a buff? No, im just giving a suggestion to make this game better again. The reason this game was ruined is because shitty nerfs all across the board, one of them being lance angles. Everything slowly but surely was nerfed and revised the way the game was "not" meant to be played, and what did "not" attract the population of crpg originally. Just throwing out my opinions.
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NA problem requires an NA solution.
I propose permanently banning Panther and all clones.
I believe this will solve the lion's share of the issue.
regards
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I propose permanently banning Panther and all clones.
now im curiouse
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I was considered the best cav NA if not the best in the game, I think I know a bit more about cav skill and how it works way more than you brother. :wink:
Maybe some balancers should start listening to some of the skilled players, that play multiple things and are consistently good at everything. That would make too much sense though and not be quite bias enough.
He wanted crossbows nerfed because people using xbows were penetrating his doucheplate, and then they could switch to a weapon that his lil baby ego mallet couldnt crush thru.
Rohypnol is good at blocking and ganking with people in his Full Plate Mallet Crushthru. You should listen to him, he has soooo much skill and so much positive energy to share with the community.... pfft
He was 'super' good at cav but the few times people dehorsed him he cried like a lil girl so he gave it up, so leave the poor guy alone okay... He only cares about fairplay and wants the best for everyone. *walks away Lol'in*
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He wanted crossbows nerfed because people using xbows were penetrating his doucheplate, and then they could switch to a weapon that his lil baby ego mallet couldnt crush thru.
Rohypnol is good at blocking and ganking with people in his Full Plate Mallet Crushthru. You should listen to him, he has soooo much skill and so much positive energy to share with the community.... pfft
He was 'super' good at cav but the few times people dehorsed him he cried like a lil girl so he gave it up, so leave the poor guy alone okay... He only cares about fairplay and wants the best for everyone. *walks away Lol'in*
Hey, bud. Rohy can be a proper asshole plenty of the time. He'll tell you that too, right before he tells you to fuck off and gobble his knob.
But he's been one of the absolute top-tier players for ages. Yeah, he's playing a walrus build right now. It's pretty silly, but really its just what I love to call a "noob harvester" sort of weapon. Not very good against one or more highly skilled foes. Of course it is effortless to smash people that are so damn terrified of you and your plate and your reputation, but it ain't even a GOOD build.
I don't know about his specific ideas of balance. I tend to have a hard time finding things I think are unbalanced, myself. I'm pretty accepting. But the man is far better than most of what a cRPG player will reach. Motherfucker's been styling on people so long all he does is run around with the walrus build. If he gave two shits and used something different, he'd break people's ankles and put them in the dirt.
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He wanted crossbows nerfed because people using xbows were penetrating his doucheplate, and then they could switch to a weapon that his lil baby ego mallet couldnt crush thru.
Rohypnol is good at blocking and ganking with people in his Full Plate Mallet Crushthru. You should listen to him, he has soooo much skill and so much positive energy to share with the community.... pfft
He was 'super' good at cav but the few times people dehorsed him he cried like a lil girl so he gave it up, so leave the poor guy alone okay... He only cares about fairplay and wants the best for everyone. *walks away Lol'in*
You do realize no one knows you and you are bad right? When you get more knowledge on how to play the game better, then you need to speak up. Until that, just shut your bad trash mouth.
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He wanted crossbows nerfed because people using xbows were penetrating his doucheplate, and then they could switch to a weapon that his lil baby ego mallet couldnt crush thru.
Rohypnol is good at blocking and ganking with people in his Full Plate Mallet Crushthru. You should listen to him, he has soooo much skill and so much positive energy to share with the community.... pfft
He was 'super' good at cav but the few times people dehorsed him he cried like a lil girl so he gave it up, so leave the poor guy alone okay... He only cares about fairplay and wants the best for everyone. *walks away Lol'in*
Guys, everyone shut up, Gryph_Hawkshade is talking. He is a well known and respected warrior who constantly puts up big numbers on the scoreboard. Remember when all those things got nerfed specifically because of him? Yea, you better listen when he talks.
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You do realize no one knows you and you are bad right? When you get more knowledge on how to play the game better, then you need to speak up. Until that, just shut your bad trash mouth.
Good comeback, top quality thought process you have going on. Your intellect matches your in-game skillz.
You just keep ur eyes peeled desperately on the scoreboard, people can only devout so much of their time and effort into certain things; im sure your parents are real proud of your C-RPG 'skill'.
Btwz, Your flacid insults are almost as pathetic as your playstyle. Keep up the platecrushing mallet ganking... so much skill, mayb I should do it and be a pro like you?
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mayb I should do it and be a pro like you?
Then do it and post results.
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Rohypnol has always been a god tier character and even playing a build like long maul plate he can still beat me 1v1 9/10 times fairly easily. However, doesnt change the fact that like pikes/long spears in team fights long mauls are devastating
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actually if u wanna become good, u gotta play everything. like really: Every class. Cuz as long as u don't know how to play it u won't know what the enemy will do when u have to face him. And btw long maul is one of the most op weapons in a duel. Even against agi whores u gotta do only one hold hit and u will stun him. If u do a overhead spam then u will crush through and he will die.
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Rohypnol was using a Cav and a Long Axe after I rage posted.
He still top-scored a buncha times, so I would like to recant all the mean things I said about him.
I still chagrin bout plate crushin a bit and will despise people who abuse the maul as good as him... But all in all, that man has skillz.
Still not sure how he rates compared to some of the other top playerz... will keep my eye open for days where he isnt maulin and sheepherdin his teammates.
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Well topscoring in NA nowadays is pretty easy lol. Like 90 % of the time there are no real pros playing. Like people u gotta be afraid of fighting against. I do actually see pretty good players in strat battles lol, but on na1 .... Nope. And when I actually see good players playing, they are trolling or doing retarded builds with shit weapons... I mean cmon, I did 21:1 on na 1 on a 25v25. There are soooo many noobs playing, its just ridiculous. And the ganking squads teamkill each other extremely.
I mean, if K and Arn can topscore easily on NA there is something wrong :P
Btw im not saying that this is something bad. Eu has like no new players, thats whyour servers die. U guys got like a vunch of new players who seem to really have fun playing, and thats fucking great!!
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I mean, if K and Arn can topscore easily on NA there is something wrong :P
Take that back! Not being able to be on top on Strat battles makes me sad though :(
Rohy is really good though. One of the few NAs left that has great footwork and blocking skill to match. Impossible to kill with my ping on NA - unlike most other players. Has nothing to do with him being right or wrong in this topic though.
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Rohypnol was using a Cav and a Long Axe after I rage posted.
He still top-scored a buncha times, so I would like to recant all the mean things I said about him.
So what you're saying is that he can only do well by jumping from one skill-less class to another? After all, he said it himself: "Make Cav require skill again..."