cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: DaveUKR on April 29, 2014, 12:16:35 pm

Title: cRPG experience
Post by: DaveUKR on April 29, 2014, 12:16:35 pm
I had a free evening and wanted to look into a new patch so I decided to install it. In this post I'll try to give my expressions about cRPG after a break, I hope they'll be used to improve the mod. This post will contain positive and negative conclusions I made after playing it.

1. I didn't have either warband or cRPG files on my PC so I had to download it. I downloaded Warband through TW website (shitty downloading speed from there, took 20 minutes to download ~600 mb file) and then downloaded launcher. And here comes the trouble. If I were a new player I would just give up. Launcher tried to download files and it got stopped several times because of downloading mirrors with several errors. Basically it was downloading to a some certain percentage stopping at some files and refusing to download further. Sometimes these files just required 10 minutes to find a mirror again but some just refused to finish the download even after an hour ending up in failed download. What was more frustrating is that launcher didn't actually download files to a folder of mod so you couldn't continue after a failed attempt. I took numerous attempts to download it during more than 6 hours. I also failed to find any links where I could download the mod without a launcher. So I ended up in asking Tyr to upload his mod folder so I can download it and put manually. After I did it - it started to work properly. Maybe it's fixed already and this problem was just temporary but it pissed me off hard.

2. Class balance seems to be changed a lot. I saw that xbowmen population got reduced (maybe 2-3 per 30 man team), there were actually more horse xbomen than foot. I guess it's somehow connected to the str requirements being changed. The amount of archers is the same. The amount of throwers just went to double or even tripple (equal to the amount of archers), the amount of horse ranged got reduced a little bit, longspear/pike users simply disappeared.

3. Throwers. It looked to me that throwers became an uber class that has no counters on the battle server. Buff of melee mode of throwing weapons was a completely wrong idea in my opinion. Also they seem to be very accurate (much more than they should be). The one who suggested such changes made a mistake, thumbs down for that.

4. All polearms stopping horses. I've read somewhere that you can't rear a horse with a glance anymore but all polearms now can rear with a thrust. To sum up: I didn't like it, even a peasant can rear an armored horse now. The idea might have been good but the realisation is horrible. Very creepy with bardich kind weapons. Also bump damage is kinda strange.

5. Onehanded animation. Seems like thrust didn't get fixed and it is still very easy to land pointblank lolstabs. In addition to the new right swing animation I would say that it was better than it is now. If it was tweaked it would be much better than before though, but nobody did it with thrust at least.

6. Flags with 5 people left. Overall a terrific idea. Especially annoying when you only have 10 players in your team and flags appear almost instantly. Also they spawn in bad places. Also sometimes they spawn right after the round start. Sometimes they don't finish the round at all. Sometimes you can see indicators of flags under the ground so you know where they will spawn. Very glitchy mechanic that kills diversity. When in the past I could win a round alone versus multiple enemies now it doesn't seem to be possible because they will just cap the flag that is in the other part of the map and that's it. Also a lot of people just ignore these flags and so on. I don't even understand why this mechanic got added (horse ranged?). Very bad idea, horrible realisation. Thumbs down.

7. A lot of new armours and new weapons. And also they look cool. Thumbs up!  8-)

8. Bad map rotation, newly added maps are mostly bad. It would be much better if maps were set according to server population.

9. Weather and day/night time still didn't get fix. Played 3 maps with rain in a row.

10. Population got dropped to ~50%. Good indicator that things don't go well. cRPG has no rivals so it only indicates that people quit the game, not just move to a better mod/game.

I didn't try xbows/archery, because I think they're all the same. Overall I can't say that mod became better. One frustrating thing got replaced by another. Game balancing team seems to do strange decisions. I don't want to sound negative but I didn't like the game that I played. There are still a lot of weapons that are just obviously OP and people tend to abuse them. I uninstalled the game in the same night as servers simply became empty.
Title: Re: cRPG experience
Post by: Duty Calls on April 29, 2014, 12:21:06 pm
Someone give this man a cookie, though c-rpg does have rivals that I won't name due to seeming like I'm advertising.
Title: Re: cRPG experience
Post by: HappyPhantom on April 29, 2014, 12:25:45 pm
Plz name
Title: Re: cRPG experience
Post by: Kadeth on April 29, 2014, 12:37:03 pm
Plz name

WoTR, Chivalry

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: cRPG experience
Post by: Grumbs on April 29, 2014, 12:38:28 pm
I feel the game has only improved in the last months. The combat is faster since the slower weapons got speed buffs and more people play agi than before. The stabs got some nerfs, although 1 hand stab got a bit too strong. Armour is a little better against ranged.  Its harder to actually get a rear now in general since the sweetspot on stabs was made shorter and takes longer after release to get in the sweet spot. That with low damage/glance not rearing means you can't just spin and stab as easily as before. Shorter poles aren't going to rear very often, unless you get reach bonus from playing hoplite so spears under 141 became more viable. In anycase cav need to have some downsides. 1 hand/2 hand cav is still a bit too strong

Lots of xbowers around still, and they are still OP until they need some skill point investment or more negative elements to having a xbow with good melee. Having a shield w/ 1 hand and a xbow with medium armour is pretty OP. Has too few downsides and is too versatile

Throwing I'm not sure on. Hybrid ranged with melee is always going to be difficult to balance. I feel some xbowers will go with throwing instead, but at least there are some skill points/wpf affects on your character that xbowers don't have

Shields got lighter which was a great addition and they made it so shots don't penetrate the shield as much. Now there are some you can carry on the back without impacting your movement so much. 1 hand with shield got a lot more powerful which acts as a bit of a counter to ranged. Although ranged also benefited from the 1 hand buffs

Thats off the top of my head anyway. I think there are issues with too fast missile speeds across the board, without enough player skill needed for shots. Plus xbowers still need some skill point sink and cav are a bit too strong. I'd make horses cheaper but weaken them a bit, and tweak the swing sweetspots if its possible
Title: Re: cRPG experience
Post by: Macropus on April 29, 2014, 01:18:13 pm
4. All polearms stopping horses. I've read somewhere that you can't rear a horse with a glance anymore but all polearms now can rear with a thrust. To sum up: I didn't like it, even a peasant can rear an armored horse now. The idea might have been good but the realisation is horrible. Very creepy with bardich kind weapons. Also bump damage is kinda strange.
1) Not all polearms can stop horses, only those having a pierce stab.
2) Peasants have always been able to rear horses as peasant weapons are all longer than 141.
3) What's creepy about bardiches rearing horses? GLB could always do that, and the Long Bardiche is just 1 cm shorter than it was required to rear before.


I agree with Grumbs in general.
Title: Re: cRPG experience
Post by: _GTX_ on April 29, 2014, 03:07:18 pm
(click to show/hide)

It does show through that these observations is not done over a long period, since some of your experiences on the servers are completely different to mine. I do however agree with most of your statements regarding balance. I just dont have the same experience regarding the distribution of classes on the server, i am often hunted by several ranged. I do not get that much rain on the maps either, so i dont know if you were just unlucky.

I do generally also agree with Grumbs.

Edit: Oh yeah throwing is kinda OP atm.
Title: Re: cRPG experience
Post by: Sniger on April 29, 2014, 04:11:41 pm
due to score/valour system, there is overload of 2h and polearms >> range. i see very few dedicated shielders. sad imo.

i enjoyed shield wall fights, majority shield but with SOME polearms behind.

polearm/2h fights not so much. not because im a shielder, im sure an old-school polearm user will agree with me on this one.

the fun times with shieldwall cluster fights is now over.

(no wonder people play DTV where we CAN get a littlebit of the shieldwall fight feeling)

RIP

Title: Re: cRPG experience
Post by: Herezy92 on April 29, 2014, 05:10:53 pm
due to score/valour system, there is overload of 2h and polearms >> range. i see very few dedicated shielders. sad imo.

i enjoyed shield wall fights, majority shield but with SOME polearms behind.

polearm/2h fights not so much. not because im a shielder, im sure an old-school polearm user will agree with me on this one.

the fun times with shieldwall cluster fights is now over.

(no wonder people play DTV where we CAN get a littlebit of the shieldwall fight feeling)


Ahhhh, good old DTV..... I remember when players had to be intelligent and play together (making a heavy shield wall while range/polearmers were attacking...)

Now its monkey-time power. (Good that i'm not a DTV hardcore player)
Anyway, i shut my frog mouth, because its not the topic :)


FrenchKiss
Title: Re: cRPG experience
Post by: Kafein on April 29, 2014, 11:39:11 pm
I can't really agree with any of those points. Mod has problems, but it seems to me that more have been fixed in what we have seen of 2014 than in 2013.
Title: Re: cRPG experience
Post by: Oberyn on April 29, 2014, 11:45:01 pm
9. Weather and day/night time still didn't get fix. Played 3 maps with rain in a row.

 :lol: Classic Dave.
 What was the old formula, again? If DaveUKR in server, rainchance=95%.
Title: Re: cRPG experience
Post by: Penitent on April 30, 2014, 12:46:47 am
due to score/valour CRPG system, there is has always been overload of 2h and polearms >> range.

Just a couple adjustments. :)
Title: Re: cRPG experience
Post by: Elio on April 30, 2014, 10:50:15 am
3. Throwers. It looked to me that throwers became an uber class that has no counters on the battle server. Buff of melee mode of throwing weapons was a completely wrong idea in my opinion. Also they seem to be very accurate (much more than they should be). The one who suggested such changes made a mistake, thumbs down for that.
I disagree for this part. (yes I have a Thrower alt)

I think that you you confuse accuracy, increased with wpf, and range, and for the range yes it's clearly unreal when you can throw over 100m.
It's not the same and lower native range of thrower will probably solve this feeling that thrower are accurate, but they aren't.

try yourself
Title: Re: cRPG experience
Post by: Joseph Porta on April 30, 2014, 10:54:53 am
Pls just stay away

Returning and making a thread full of cry in general discussion? Chamber of tears pls.
Npt to mention full of obvious populistic statements.
Title: Re: cRPG experience
Post by: Boerenlater on April 30, 2014, 11:31:20 am
Thanks Dave, you just saved me the same progress of downloading and installation. :wink:
Title: Re: cRPG experience
Post by: Teeth on April 30, 2014, 11:44:48 am
What a load of shit.
Title: Re: cRPG experience
Post by: Switchtense on April 30, 2014, 12:38:47 pm
2. Class balance seems to be changed a lot. I saw that xbowmen population got reduced (maybe 2-3 per 30 man team), there were actually more horse xbomen than foot. I guess it's somehow connected to the str requirements being changed. The amount of archers is the same. The amount of throwers just went to double or even tripple (equal to the amount of archers), the amount of horse ranged got reduced a little bit, longspear/pike users simply disappeared.


2-3 crossbows per 30 man team is enough. So an improvement.
Horse crossbows vary, sometimes you have a couple, sometimes you have none. (Strength requirements for them have changed too)
The recent patch buffed throwers, of course everybody and their mothers are playing thrower now. Wait a week or two and it will be down to normal.
Longspears and pikes are still there, you just played at the wrong time.


3. Throwers. It looked to me that throwers became an uber class that has no counters on the battle server. Buff of melee mode of throwing weapons was a completely wrong idea in my opinion. Also they seem to be very accurate (much more than they should be). The one who suggested such changes made a mistake, thumbs down for that.


Get a shield, or stay away from ranged. If you have a shield you can easily engage a thrower in melee, and if you are better you win. If you have no shield you can't complain about ranged impaling you left right centre.
Throwing accurately requires some proficiency points, thus reducing the proficiency of your melee class. If someone has both awesome melee and throwing proficiency they can't have a lot of power throw.
Throwing buff was desperately needed. It was the most useless class (apart from ridiculous hybrids/tribrids etc)


4. All polearms stopping horses. I've read somewhere that you can't rear a horse with a glance anymore but all polearms now can rear with a thrust. To sum up: I didn't like it, even a peasant can rear an armored horse now. The idea might have been good but the realisation is horrible. Very creepy with bardich kind weapons. Also bump damage is kinda strange.


As Macropus said, the polearm needs a pierce stab, which excludes quite a few polearms already.
Also as Marcopus said, peasants could always rear horses, check the polearm lengths of peasant weapons.
Cavarly is very strong as it is, they can easily one-hit-kill you. So a few more weapons to stop their horses are a useful addition.


5. Onehanded animation. Seems like thrust didn't get fixed and it is still very easy to land pointblank lolstabs. In addition to the new right swing animation I would say that it was better than it is now. If it was tweaked it would be much better than before though, but nobody did it with thrust at least.


Thrust is very predictable, every decent 1h player stabs at least half of their attacks. Downblock is the new shield.
The new animation looks a bit clunky, Tydeus said he will look into it. The new animation helps though. Automatically easier to hit the head, whereas before you had to look up into the sky to hit the enemies head. And it glances less often.


6. Flags with 5 people left. Overall a terrific idea. Especially annoying when you only have 10 players in your team and flags appear almost instantly. Also they spawn in bad places. Also sometimes they spawn right after the round start. Sometimes they don't finish the round at all. Sometimes you can see indicators of flags under the ground so you know where they will spawn. Very glitchy mechanic that kills diversity. When in the past I could win a round alone versus multiple enemies now it doesn't seem to be possible because they will just cap the flag that is in the other part of the map and that's it. Also a lot of people just ignore these flags and so on. I don't even understand why this mechanic got added (horse ranged?). Very bad idea, horrible realisation. Thumbs down.


The issues with flags need to be fixed, yes. But I guess those flags have saved many of us many minutes, or by now probably many hours of sitting and waiting until a delaying idiot gets killed. Overall a good addition, just needs a bit of tweaking.


8. Bad map rotation, newly added maps are mostly bad. It would be much better if maps were set according to server population.


Some maps are good, some are bad. Personal preference really. Setting maps regarding map size according to server population would be good though.


9. Weather and day/night time still didn't get fix. Played 3 maps with rain in a row.


Adjust your brightness or just tweak your configs to see everything clear as day. Constant rain does suck though.


10. Population got dropped to ~50%. Good indicator that things don't go well. cRPG has no rivals so it only indicates that people quit the game, not just move to a better mod/game.


People get bored, get a new job, their computer breaks or whatever. It is normal that a game loses players over time. Some are not happy with a certain patch and thus leave, others are happy and return.
cRPG does not have real rivals, apart from WotR and Chivalry maybe, even though they play differently (and in my personal opinion are far worse)
But people do play other games too. Dark Souls 2 was released a few days ago. Half of my steam contact list is filled with Dark Souls 2 players now, who previously played cRPG every day.
Once new games get a bit boring people will eventually return to cRPG. It is the cycle of terrific games, they lose population after a while, but eventually people return.


I didn't try xbows/archery, because I think they're all the same. Overall I can't say that mod became better. One frustrating thing got replaced by another. Game balancing team seems to do strange decisions. I don't want to sound negative but I didn't like the game that I played. There are still a lot of weapons that are just obviously OP and people tend to abuse them. I uninstalled the game in the same night as servers simply became empty.


I recently went to Florida after I haven't been there for a year. The skies were grey and it was raining. So I grabbed the next flight back home. Overall I think it became a very grey and rainy country and I now really dislike it.
What the fuck? If everybody judged based on obersations of one day, or not even one whole day in your case, you would probably still hunt animals using a spear, and in your free time you would bash two stones against each other.

Everything in your memory seems brighter and happier and more interesting than it actually was. Remember that one game you played back in 1998? It looked amazing didn't it? And hey! It even got a graphics update so it must look even better now! But nope, even with an improvement made it looks absolutely shit.
That works with everything, maybe you just remember cRPG being better than it really was.



EDIT:
TL;DR
What a load of shit.
Title: Re: cRPG experience
Post by: joshuapago on April 30, 2014, 07:37:09 pm
+1 switchtense
Title: Re: cRPG experience
Post by: DaveUKR on April 30, 2014, 11:09:00 pm
I've just described my thoughts while playing. There is no need to take it that serious like if I was trying to prove something. It is just my opinion. And most of my negative feelings were not because something was done but because of something that wasn't done. I didn't wait anything superb from Tydeus in game balance at least because of his "creativity over gamebalance" but he did some positive things among predictable negative. Map rotation is still bad, there are still old bugs/glitches at certain maps, maps edited by Teeth are still horrible, so I guess he's mad on me because of that. On the other hand I was surprised by the amazing job of Zagibu. This man deserves a medal.