Inb4 XyNox come and QQ's
So a f..agg.o.t grabs 60 arrows and a bow longer than him rides a horse like a car all his bumps can knock you down i cant see any reality here
HA is one of the hardest(in crpg) most expensive and lowest scoring class in that mod.
but to be sure we need panos to confirm that because only he knows what is cool and lame to play
I for one know that being a longsword spamming noob is lame as hell :wink:
HA is one of the hardest(in crpg) most expensive and lowest scoring class in that mod.
Mount&Ranged. that is all
Range needs to be more aware of HA/HX.
Their only real weakness is dedicated range characters.
Problem is those range people don't really know they are the only ones who have a chance of killing those classes.
Which is why HA/HX are fundamentally detrimental to the gameplay.
So a f..agg.o.t grabs 60 arrows and a bow longer than him rides a horse like a car all his bumps can knock you down i cant see any reality here
True, it would be realistic if instead of 60 arrows he only carried (depending on culture) 18-40, and his bumps OHKed any and all infantry irregardless of armor at full speed...
I'll take our HA over "real ones" thank you.
Your logic is impeccable. :rolleyes:
Instead of trying to educate ground ranged, nerf the people doing nothing wrong.
This is the problem with crpg and the nerfs we have gotten over the years.
The problem isn't horse archers or horse ranged classes, the problem is the ground ranged, or the rambo/ninja's who can't be arsed to keep their own ground archers alive.
I don't see a reason to nerf something in crpg because you can't be arsed to use tactics or teamwork. Don't want to get shot to shit by horse archers? Don't run around by yourself on the edge of the map. Stick with your teammates and you'll be fine.
Or keep running head first into the wall and complain enough to the admins about the wall until they remove it. AMIRITE? No reason to go around the wall, or over the wall or under the wall, the developers will cater to your headstrong ability to QQ on the forums, and take no responsibility for what happens to your character in game.
*FULL DISCLOSURE* I say this as a level 34, 13th generation of cavalry lancer. The main menace to me on the battlefield is horse ranged classes (followed closely by ground ranged). You know how I avoid horse archers? I don't ride by myself 1000 miles from my infantry where the enemy horse archers are roaming.
Your logic is impeccable. :rolleyes:
Instead of trying to educate ground ranged, nerf the people doing nothing wrong.
This is the problem with crpg and the nerfs we have gotten over the years.
The problem isn't horse archers or horse ranged classes, the problem is the ground ranged, or the rambo/ninja's who can't be arsed to keep their own ground archers alive.
I don't see a reason to nerf something in crpg because you can't be arsed to use tactics or teamwork. Don't want to get shot to shit by horse archers? Don't run around by yourself on the edge of the map. Stick with your teammates and you'll be fine.
Or keep running head first into the wall and complain enough to the admins about the wall until they remove it. AMIRITE? No reason to go around the wall, or over the wall or under the wall, the developers will cater to your headstrong ability to QQ on the forums, and take no responsibility for what happens to your character in game.
*FULL DISCLOSURE* I say this as a level 34, 13th generation of cavalry lancer. The main menace to me on the battlefield is horse ranged classes (followed closely by ground ranged). You know how I avoid horse archers? I don't ride by myself 1000 miles from my infantry where the enemy horse archers are roaming.
Realistically, HA's were OP as fuck.
But realism is a horrible way to balance a game.
True, it would be realistic if instead of 60 arrows he only carried (depending on culture) 18-40, and his bumps OHKed any and all infantry irregardless of armor at full speed...
I'll take our HA over "real ones" thank you.
Well there you go then, realism is even worse. A big-o very fast armored horse capable of incapacitating targets all by itself with a rider well trained in a far-shooting hard-hitting bow with 60 arrows and a lance.
People need to stop posting "this isn't realism" threads based solely on "gut-feeling." That's fine for game balance but not for anything even remotely resembling realism. Warfare has never been ineffective nor fair, you are trying to murder the other bastard and make HIM die for his country after all...
If you wanna go rape some HA's or HX Javalry is the way to go, best counter to anything mounted & ranged, if you dont kill them outright with your javelins you at least dehorse them which means they pretty much dead.
If you wanna go rape some HA's or HX Javalry is the way to go, best counter to anything mounted & ranged, if you dont kill them outright with your javelins you at least dehorse them which means they pretty much dead.
If you wanna go rape some HA's or HX Javalry is the way to go, best counter to anything mounted & ranged, if you dont kill them outright with your javelins you at least dehorse them which means they pretty much dead.
Hell yeah.
Fight the horseranged... WITH MORE HORSERANGED!
Range needs to be more aware of HA/HX.
Their only real weakness is dedicated range characters.
Problem is those range people don't really know they are the only ones who have a chance of killing those classes.
How about not call for nerfs and removal of "classes" based on subjective thoughts, pseudo science and isolated incidents.
All "classes" and playstyles have situations when they are well suited for the task and where they totally suck. Further we all have the same opportunities when creating characters and choosing gear at round start. If you want to have a better chance against a certain "class" there are plenty of options. All it takes is not focusing on whining/raging but adaptation.
Try not to bend the spoon... Instead bend yourselves!
. I'd love to see the dead horse rag doll effect (where it flies through the air as a ghost) actually cause damage to people that it hits. That would be hilarious and game breaking.
How about not call for nerfs and removal of "classes" based on subjective thoughts, pseudo science and isolated incidents.
All "classes" and playstyles have situations when they are well suited for the task and where they totally suck.
Further we all have the same opportunities when creating characters and choosing gear at round start. If you want to have a better chance against a certain "class" there are plenty of options. All it takes is not focusing on whining/raging but adaptation.
HA/HX should get a penalty for riding anything above a war horse, or even a barded horse, having HAs mounted on what is basically a tank, and just casually trotting into players then shooting them in the back or some shit is fucking retarded.
Arguing about counters when some classes have no strong weaknessHave you ever tried to play as HA on the siege server, by the way?
Have you ever tried to play as HA on the siege server, by the way?
Open field battles is not the only thing to make balance around.
One can't really play melee cav on siege either, what's your point ? Are you seriously implying HA should be buffed because they are bad on siege ?More like they shouldn't be nerfed because they are bad at sieges (yes, like any dedicated cav build).
What matters isn't what you think people with bows should do. What matters is what they actually do, which isn't countering HA and HX, for plenty of good reasons. First because there are much easier targets around.
Wrong, HA, melee cav and ranged are top targets, because they dont allow archers to deploy freely in the battlefield, removing them gives us a tactical ability.
The first reason why many of us archers might not be shooting back at enemy ranged and horses, is because the enemy inf is closing in our position and we have no support, since the melee single minded entity saw fit to full charge together like the heroes of old, and leave us ranged for pickings.
The second reason is bump shooting. We dont have big weapons to actually keep them at bay, but even switching between bow and side arm is dangerous, because the rider maneuvers the horse away, then back, before you have time to release the arrow. Or he could just shoot you first with his spammy bow that actually works against light armor, that's a problem too. And if we have something to hide behind, then the rider just goes away and waits for a teammate to force us out. And dodging is not really reliable since the weight nerf, no, staying away from a strong horse in general is the rule if you're an unsupported archer.
Another reason is ranged, shooting at an enemy with the ability to change its position rapidly, from long range, is a waste of arrows, and we run out of those. Keep that in mind people and please dont run after the enemy ha if you have ranged support, or ever. Make them come to you and you might have a shot at dehorsing.
As I told you before Kafein, you have to know the class before you comment on it. Keep your opinions to yourself.
Remember that the constant nerfing has its toal, and if some people expect ranged efficiency from their team, then hand holding is more and more a requirement, whether you like it or not.
Even though I hate horse ranged for the reasons stated above, I have to say nerfing would just feed the fire, because people who dont want to teamplay(because it's 'unfun'), never will, and they should learn the consequences instead of successfully inflaming the rest.
Now devs;
Believe it or not, you have in your hands the means to determine what kind of attitude the comunity adheres to. And so far, threads like these have been the result, despite the constant underdogging of non melee classes.
Oh, and NERF!
Give me an example of a situation where an archer is more than 10 meters away from any class without a ranged weapon and totally suck equally bad as a 2h more than 10 meters away from an archer. Tip : in such a situation the 2h dies within seconds.
Adaptation against ranged is more ranged, but people don't do it because they still prefer having fun over winning.
Adaptation against ranged is more ranged, but people don't do it because they still prefer having fun over winning.
Seriously, what makes everybody arguing in favor of the statu-quo think that somehow, players aren't adapting to the game ?
Like its the end of a round. One guy are left on each team. Team 1 has a 2h optimized to deal and receive dmg in melee. IE no shield skill for ranged protection. Team 2 has a HA optimized to kill heavy inf IE high PD, bodkins and heavier horse. Clearly the HA has an advantage as he can decide when and where to engage the 2h. Right now the only thing the 2h can do is either hide and wait for flags or try to outsmart the HA. Lets say he choose to hide and wait for flags. They spawn and he dances over there in a hail of arrows and bumps hoping the HA will slip up or the glitching hitboxes will save him. Not a very good place to be in and would probably end up with 2h dead.It's the end of a round, one guy is left on one team, ten people are left on the other. Team 1 has a ha, team 2 has ten shielders optimized to counter ranged as good as they can while not becoming ranged, the HA wastes 3-5 minutes of everyones time running around without managing to get a single kill despite filling everyones shields with half a dozen arrows. Everyone even have to wait for the MotF to come up instead of the guy just dehorsing and dying, for he doesn't want to hurt his kd.
Does that make the HA class unfair? No
Do the 2h have to respecc archer to coupe with other ranged? No
Could he have done something not to get into that position in the first place? Most likely yes... He could have brought equipment just for situations like that, helped his teamates who are better suited to take out HAs survive, tweaked his build to be able to counter more then melee oriented situations to name a few.
It's the end of a round, one guy is left on one team, ten people are left on the other. Team 1 has a ha, team 2 has ten shielders optimized to counter ranged as good as they can while not becoming ranged, the HA wastes 3-5 minutes of everyones time running around without managing to get a single kill despite filling everyones shields with half a dozen arrows. Everyone even have to wait for the MotF to come up instead of the guy just dehorsing and dying, for he doesn't want to hurt his kd.
Does that make the HA class unfair? It sure as fuck does to the shitload of people whose time is being wasted
Would being hybrid throwers have helped the shielders? If the HA stayed out of maximum range (which for a thrower isn't very long) it wouldn't
Is the insane amounts of minutes being wasted because of some shitbird on a horse beyond retarded? Yes
It's the end of a round, one guy is left on one team, ten people are left on the other. Team 1 has a ha, team 2 has ten shielders optimized to counter ranged as good as they can while not becoming ranged, the HA wastes 3-5 minutes of everyone's time running around without managing to get a single kill despite filling everyone's shields with half a dozen arrows. Everyone even have to wait for the MotF to come up instead of the guy just dehorsing and dying, for he doesn't want to hurt his kd.
Does that make the HA class unfair? It sure as fuck does to the shitload of people whose time is being wasted
Would being hybrid throwers have helped the shielders? If the HA stayed out of maximum range (which for a thrower isn't very long) it wouldn't
Is the insane amounts of minutes being wasted because of some shitbird on a horse beyond retarded? Yes
- No drawing/delaying the round on purpose (i.e. running away or camping unreachable places when you're one of the last people alive)
- OK: running away and shooting enemies that are reachable by projectiles
- NOT OK: running away or avoiding confrontation when there is nobody to shoot in range or everyone is behind cover.
- NOT OK: running away or avoiding confrontation to search for ammo
"Tactics" and "teamwork".
Is huddling up in a creek somewhere doing nothing for four minutes because there's literary nothing you can do against the bullshit that is horseranged as melee "tactics" to you?
But Jarlek, I'm too retarded to use logic, I just want to w-key at the enemy...so even though they're doing nothing wrong, let's nerf them anyways, because c-rpg.90% of the server don't know about that rule
"Tactics" and "teamwork".
Is huddling up in a creek somewhere doing nothing for four minutes because there's literary nothing you can do against the bullshit that is horseranged as melee "tactics" to you?
Yes.
I believe the horse archer class is balanced, perhaps a bit underpowered. I am mostly satisfied with this mod in general. the only thing that bothers me is /light cavalry < archers/. against any decent archer who is aware of you, they can just dodge about and circle around your horse and put it down in a few shots. when playing as cavalry, my base instinct is to think I should go after archers, but really that is pointless and almost guarantees the death of my horse. when playing as light cavalry foot archers are the second most dangerous class to attempt to fight, right behind horse archers.
a good archer who is aware of you is not easy to bump slash whatsoever. they will be working as hard as they can to circle around and prevent being bumped while taking a total of 4 seconds to kill your horse.
You're going to dodge cav while circling while drawing their bow? The very instant you start drawing your speed goes into the toilet.
A class balance that focuses on horse ranged would be a nice thing, for sure.
Just class balance in general needs to be done. On low pop servers 1 class always has all the cav or 2h strength crutching heroes and the other is all peasants!
Your logic is flawless. OK, we all will "adapt" by hiding behind a wall so YOU can play the way you want and roam freely. Deal!
Your logic is flawless. OK, we all will "adapt" by hiding behind a wall so YOU can play the way you want and roam freely. Deal!
i refer to the post done by tears® about mental issues like sadism. its really a good reading. several crpg players have issues and play the mod only to generate QQ and whine. they will do anything to get the reactions and feed on them.
for examble players have admittet playing HAs only to harrash and terrorize certain players they either dont like or just want to troll to QQ. these individuals have mental issues and shouldnt be allowed a computer. the other day it happend to me... basicly i couldnt play cus i was spammed down by 3 HA's who wanted to use me and my gametime to have their own private lol (i guess they are bored playing normal crpg as its suppose to be played... again... take away their computer cus they cannot control it) i had to eventually quit. my point is: if its not happening to me, its happening to someone else. new blood? never.