You cannot stab at close range with a 2h either unless your damage is very high and/ your enemy is unarmored, same goes for 1handers. Try a high PS STR build and see if it makes a difference.
So no, 2h is not amazing at stabbing at any range, quite the contrary. Go make a STF balance or AGI build and see for yourself.
I disagree I've been stabbed by 5-6ps players with a 2h at the very very tip of their animation for full damage. Also the same event occurs at point blank. Where is a 1h suposse to be superior? Never currently. It's all in the players skill unlike 2h and polearm.
Your arguement of manual block is invalid. It's easy to do.
In any case 1h sucks. Remove its hit box restrictions so that it only will glance at the end of the swing animation. This will balance the game by giving 1h the facehug advantage, since it will no longer glance at any range and at initial swing. But as it should be, be less effective at longer range(because they are short) and giving 2h and pole the advantage.
That makes sense to me for balance.
In anycase I'm done playing crpg until they improve 1h. Which has been shat on the last 3 patches.
I dont think 1h is in a bad state in general.
For example at siege 1h is by far the easiest way to get huge scores.
Take a big shield, take a fast 1h and look with how little to no skill requirement its possible
to get on the valourtrain :p
1h stab is tricky, sometimes u do one inesperately, bouncing, and u get a free hit without any chance of block. I think it should have a bit more of lenght at least. Also shield and weapon master is a waste of points :PWat
WatSorry my fault, i was talking about siegue
So tell me why i see the same people valor whoring all the time ? It;s not like shield is the best way for getting good score, poles and 2h can get them just as easy if they know how to play. Just look at Rantrex(and his alts), Sraka, Kulin Ban, Vovka, Koldborn, Nokeyboard, Hubert. It's ranged who have it harder when it comes to valor, but for a good reason (on the other side, they have it easy on battle). Or even 1h no shield heroes like Trollface or Bjord.dude shielder is eazyest way to get high score ... period. stating that goodplayers of other classes can get high scores to is irrelevant. ive been able to valour whore for hours on my shielder alt on siege, on my main i have to actually kill alot to get high valour, as shielder i can just hold upmy shield inthe crowd and hit from time to time. and be top scorer.
dude shielder is eazyest way to get high score ... period. stating that goodplayers of other classes can get high scores to is irrelevant. ive been able to valour whore for hours on my shielder alt on siege, on my main i have to actually kill alot to get high valour, as shielder i can just hold upmy shield inthe crowd and hit from time to time. and be top scorer.
6PS slashes versus any kind of plate/loomed heavy armor is a glance fest
5 ps, 150 wpf and a non-loomed knobbed mace (24b) or elite scimitar (31c) and I bounce once in a blue moon. Do your positioning and use short holds and you shouldn't have any problem. Also, I don't have problem stabbing with the medium/high damaging one-handers. I usually don't stab a lot with 1Hs with less than 22-23 pierce damage, because I don't expect any useable damage output anyway.
Holding works, but hinders your duel abilities a lot, make you predictable and very weak to spam.
Do your positioning and use short holds and you shouldn't have any problem.
5 ps, 150 wpf and a non-loomed knobbed mace (24b) or elite scimitar (31c) and I bounce once in a blue moon. Do your positioning and use short holds and you shouldn't have any problem. Also, I don't have problem stabbing with the medium/high damaging one-handers. I usually don't stab a lot with 1Hs with less than 22-23 pierce damage, because I don't expect any useable damage output anyway.That there is also part of the problem. Many 1handers have stab damage that are worse than most 2handed swords. I just counted and there are exactly 5 1handed swords over 5k that has 25 or more stab damage, 2 of them being short swords.
Short holds is the name of the game. Often enough for the enemy to take down their block, not slow enough to let them spam you, at least not with left swing, stabs or overheads. I'm more careful with holding the slower right swing, but I mostly use it for the range game anyway.
Short Sword, 26c slash, 26p thrust. 6 PS, 100 wpf. I never glanced on any hit ever(Unless I fought Para_Kutt in his full milanese on a wall and couldn't move enough into the hit). Did have 6 ath and abused the hell out of speed bonus for hits on tin cans however.
Stop whining about the stabs and overhead needing fixes. The attack isn't the problem, your lack of footwork is. Move into your hits, don't stab at point blank, aim for the head, aim for the feet, turn some more. Etc.
Short Sword, 26c slash, 26p thrust. 6 PS, 100 wpf. I never glanced on any hit ever(Unless I fought Para_Kutt in his full milanese on a wall and couldn't move enough into the hit). Did have 6 ath and abused the hell out of speed bonus for hits on tin cans however.Fighting somebody with 7-8 ath who is constantly moving backwards and strafing makes is nearly impossible to land a solid stab.
Stop whining about the stabs and overhead needing fixes. The attack isn't the problem, your lack of footwork is. Move into your hits, don't stab at point blank, aim for the head, aim for the feet, turn some more. Etc.
Which is a shame, since there are some great thrusting 1h weapons that are rendered nearly useless by these limitations (+3 long espada may be the most worthless +3 item on the marketplace).Sadly, I own one of these swords, and I'm lucky to pull of a chain of stabs before I die to a glance.
This topic isn't whether 1h/shield players can or can't get valor, or whether a 1h will glance on sideswings, it's a debate on why 1h thrust has to suck. And here, 'suck' is in the context of comparison to the 2h thrust. If 2h can deliver lightning-fast stabs for full damage from 0m to 2m, why shouldn't 1h be able to land a thrust on someone two feet away without it bouncing?Posted this on page 1. Sad to see it was ignored.
I made a 2h STF char with a longsword, and only did thrusts. I was unable to find a situation where the thrust wasn't the ideal attack. Fighting cavalry, other 2h, facehugging shielders; it was easy to land full-damage thrusts in every situation. Meanwhile, with my loomed Knightly Arming Sword on my main, every thrust is a gamble. Between the confusing hitbox, large delay, and tiny sweet spot, it's just not worth the risk.
Which is a shame, since there are some great thrusting 1h weapons that are rendered nearly useless by these limitations (+3 long espada may be the most worthless +3 item on the marketplace).
Posted this on page 1. Sad to see it was ignored.(click to show/hide)
Stop blaberring on how your uber good and with only 5 ps you dont glance and how you know everything about every class. This is not the point!!This. Stop showing off your e-penises , the 1h stab needs some love, period.
how is it fair that, like you say, if you do this or that you can get your 1h stab in and when a 2h fucks up his stab he can just slide it in?? One doesnt accept mistakes, one is too forgiving!!
Good for you but it's still unfair how the 2h stab is superior to 1h. you cant deny no matter how uber pro you are. stop being douches
This. Stop showing off your e-penises , the 1h stab needs some love, period.
says all the biased 1 handers... this thread has turned from a discussion about the 1handed stab, into a gathering of people compairing it to the 2 handed stab. witch in theyr eyes is godly... i can tell you this people who turn stab with 2 hander can eazely be counter by a 1hander left swing or even if u move into it with abit of armor on it will glance and u get free hit. tbh non of the players i consider to be some of the best in crpg have been complaining about 1 handers.. next up there will be 1 handers in here who say oh u know 1 handed overhead is so useless to... common.I play more 2h than I do 1h. It is infinitely easier to land a solid 2h stab, even at very close range.
says all the biased 1 handers... this thread has turned from a discussion about the 1handed stab, into a gathering of people compairing it to the 2 handed stab. witch in theyr eyes is godly... i can tell you this people who turn stab with 2 hander can eazely be counter by a 1hander left swing or even if u move into it with abit of armor on it will glance and u get free hit. tbh non of the players i consider to be some of the best in crpg have been complaining about 1 handers.. next up there will be 1 handers in here who say oh u know 1 handed overhead is so useless to... common.I don't give a crap who you consider the best or how good you are , we're talking about a weapon animation in this topic.
says all the biased 1 handers... this thread has turned from a discussion about the 1handed stab, into a gathering of people compairing it to the 2 handed stab. witch in theyr eyes is godly... i can tell you this people who turn stab with 2 hander can eazely be counter by a 1hander left swing or even if u move into it with abit of armor on it will glance and u get free hit. tbh non of the players i consider to be some of the best in crpg have been complaining about 1 handers.. next up there will be 1 handers in here who say oh u know 1 handed overhead is so useless to... common.
im just stating my oppinion, i have no prob with 1 hander stabs, it might be annoying when somone is pressing S key you glance because of reach, but the close stabs are op when executed right. [...]This.
says all the biased 1 handers... this thread has turned from a discussion about the 1handed stab, into a gathering of people compairing it to the 2 handed stab. witch in theyr eyes is godly... i can tell you this people who turn stab with 2 hander can eazely be counter by a 1hander left swing or even if u move into it with abit of armor on it will glance and u get free hit. tbh non of the players i consider to be some of the best in crpg have been complaining about 1 handers.. next up there will be 1 handers in here who say oh u know 1 handed overhead is so useless to... common.
If you post saying 1handers are in fact NOT underpowered pieces of shit, but are actually pretty easy to use effectively if you learn what you're doing + shield for survivability making them a great melee class on par with 2handers and polearms (with easiest valor), you will get like 10 -1's immediately from people with little to no explanation.
I don't think 1handers are OP or anything but they are balanced, and when people ignore the fact that you can use a shield with weapons in regards to weapon balance, you are really missing the entire point of having a shield. You get perfect positioning for offensive attacks, escaping dire situations, and owning 1 vs 6s with little to no reactions or coordination but just slamming RMB and spamming held left swings in between.
I think most people complaining about 1hand thrusts, saying "right swing always glances" and saying "lol i r8p as 2hander EZ mode buff shielders" are usually just unskilled players with a poor perspective of different classes and playstyles.
The thread like 4 pages saying that the 1hand thrust is impossible to use and all 1handers need major buffs, and when one guy says "hey when I play my 1hander I do pretty good the stab is just like other weapons stabs but needs extra practice" he got dumped on with hate.
Basically there is nothing to "fix" about the 1hand thrust except the OP needs to practice his footwork, timing, held swings, and decision making on what attacks to use and when. Hell if you find the thrust to just not work for your playstyle, get a scimitar or steel pick or something and enjoy your pocket bec or katana at 100+ speed and learn to abuse left swings at facehug and right swings at range instead.
I believe what most of the guys posting meant was that 1h stab is a lot less reliable compared to a 2h (or pole) stab. It bounces a lot more early in the animation and at the end of the animation. Yes it can be pulled off by good footwork, distance, timing and a hold. But 2h's stab is a lot more reliable and that is known to anyone who has a slightest clue about what is going on in this game.This is certainly correct but let's look at it from this point of view:
The thread like 4 pages saying that the 1hand thrust is impossible to use and all 1handers need major buffs, and when one guy says "hey when I play my 1hander I do pretty good the stab is just like other weapons stabs but needs extra practice" he got dumped on with hate.
Basically there is nothing to "fix" about the 1hand thrust except the OP needs to practice his footwork, timing, held swings, and decision making on what attacks to use and when.
Saulcanner, who is the #1 duelist on NA, a recognized authority on every kind of melee weapon, and almost certainly one of the best players not only in cRPG but all of Warband, someone who unquestionably has very good footwork, timing, held swings, and decision making, is saying that recent changes have done something to one-handed stabs to make them less viable than they previously were. I don't think you should just dismiss that out of hand.
People like Hospitaller_Cain used to nearly 1 shot me with stabs and never glanced once for nearly a year of thrust abusing. If you want a facehug attack as a shielder and think a stab would glance, there's no reason not to left swing instead anyways (held overhead good too). Stab needs more space in comparison, but both are very fast and powerful animations.
This.
People just whine because they cant just lolstab as they do with 2h's or awlpikes. 1h stab is fine honestly, heavens forbid skill is somewhat required in a skill based game.
I'll repeat what I did in my last post, and probably get another infinite number of -'s. When stabbing, use proper footwork or else it will glance. If you are face hugging as many 1h's are prone to do when they stab, don't stab. Highlighting the "use proper footwork" part of that.
Problem is, a shield and 1h weapon only make one thing easier : you don't have to do the directional blocking yourself. Everything else is harder. You need more hits to kill, have less reach and need to block much more frequently, slower movement, can't turn into swings as much (and can't let them go either), you can only block sideswings from people in front of you, the stab is hard to land, the overhead is hard to land, the right swing is slow, the left swing is somewhat short and your attacks are delayed after blocking (which also slows down feints). In addition, your whole setup can go up to 3 slots (using a shield that can compensate for the aforementioned blocking angle loss is a good reason).
In 2010 when the game was fresh and nobody knew how to block this was fine.
Agrees.
Don't forget kick blocking, crushthrough, axes, and hiltslashing negate the value of a shield.
There, good 1h stab. Only the rondel dagger seems this easy to stab with, other 1h's can use a buff in stabs.He still glances on a guy with light armor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp8nQp-WpPA&feature=plcp
Yes, believe me, with terrible timing/ footwork you can glance with a flamberge on a peasant.You talking about the guy who slowly walks up the stairs, right? And you hit him in the back while running towards him?
The guy you pointed out on the other thread at 1:11 is wearing heraldic i think ;)
You talking about the guy who slowly walks up the stairs, right? And you hit him in the back while running towards him?Looked like a tunic when I had it on low quality. Oops.
Yeah, he has mail armour.