cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Guides => Topic started by: Braeden on January 03, 2011, 05:51:51 pm

Title: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Braeden on January 03, 2011, 05:51:51 pm
This guide is very out of date.  Read at your own risk.  However, posting here seems to still get you useful advice and the more recent comments are still accurate.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Braeden on January 03, 2011, 05:52:13 pm
For a large amount of comments and advice from others, see here:

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,145708.0.html (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,145708.0.html)
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Kophka on January 03, 2011, 08:04:39 pm
Strangely enough, Javelins are absolutely wonderful for horse throwing or "Javalry". With a low PT requirement, they get decently accurate at 5 PT, allowing you to build agility for riding 2 or 3, and Horse Archery to 2 or 3, before going all strength. Two javelins can often do the same job that 2 jarids can do. Imagine that a javelin removes 55% of your enemies health while a jarid removes 80%. You still have to hit twice with the jarid OR the javelin to kill them, and you have a better chance of doing so with the javelins. Remember fledgling Javalry players, Horse Archery DOES affect your accuracy at a gallop, which is where your main prey may be found, namely Horse Archers and Heavy Cavalry.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Roran Hawkins on January 03, 2011, 08:05:31 pm
I like throwing axes with my new character  :)
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Warcat on January 03, 2011, 11:03:44 pm
How can you leave stones off this list. I've seen many people fall from throwing stones.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Braeden on January 03, 2011, 11:30:34 pm
How can you leave stones off this list. I've seen many people fall from throwing stones.
You are quite right.  Edited.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Ishar on January 03, 2011, 11:32:42 pm
Since stones have blunt damage - do they have a knockdown chance? Haven't seen it, but if they do... dude!
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Mtemtko on January 03, 2011, 11:41:43 pm
Since stones have blunt damage - do they have a knockdown chance? Haven't seen it, but if they do... dude!

No knockdowns yet with 9PT/140WPF  :|
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Braeden on January 03, 2011, 11:46:19 pm
Yeah, I've never seen knockdown from them.  I don't think it applies to ranged weaponry.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Shigeru on January 04, 2011, 05:22:17 am
Thrown weapons will never cause knockdown.








But oooooh if they did.....  :twisted:
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Warcat on January 04, 2011, 08:29:05 am
A headshot should cause a knockdown at least sometimes
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Claim on January 04, 2011, 09:29:48 am
A headshot cause death most of the time anyway.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Warcat on January 04, 2011, 10:13:18 am
with stones? Not againist someone with a good helmet and full health
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Penchik on January 04, 2011, 07:53:01 pm
How many WPF should I put into throwing to be perfectly accuraye? I have 100 now, is that enough?
PS I'm using heavy axes.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Warcat on January 04, 2011, 07:59:53 pm
Somewhat depends on whether you're throwing while still or moving, either way, there is room to improve from 100.
On another note.
Quote
Throwing Knives Throwing Knives, Axes, & Daggers Lowest Price Guaranteed - Shop Now! BudK.com
Love the Google adds
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Penchik on January 04, 2011, 08:43:17 pm
When I'm moving accuracy's almost the same comparing to standing still.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Warcat on January 05, 2011, 04:57:02 am
Wouldn't be to worried about it now anyway, your wpf is a lot lower now. I can't use my heavy lances with Village_Elder_IV anymore, back to stones  :(
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Beans on January 06, 2011, 04:31:49 am
Just wanted to point out to fellow throwers that hierlooming throwing weapons doesn't appear to increase their difficulty anymore.  A while back I heirloomed war darts twice to get higher damage, but still have the darts higher ammo count. Before the patch they were difficulty 4, now they are 2.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: ShinySpoons on January 06, 2011, 10:18:23 am
With the increased use of light/medium armour throwing has become even more viable! Darts, daggers, hell, even stones are all more than capable of taking out large groups of enemies with around 6 pt.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Ishar on January 06, 2011, 11:25:26 am
Yes, throwing axes are more fun than ever. Actually, I get more kills with them than my sword.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Spawny on January 06, 2011, 03:16:14 pm
My thrower is actually VERY good this patch.

I'm going full strength/full thrower. I should end up at 13 PT when I hit level 30.

Throwing rocks+13PT=deadly accuracy, very good damage and NO upkeep.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Beans on January 07, 2011, 12:40:39 am
Fuck me did they lower the speed of throwing weapons in flight? They seem painfully slow now.

Before the big patch I had no problem hitting other horsemen on the move, while also mobile on horse provided the distance was not too great.  Now I have to make such huge leads to the target to compensate it's extremely hard to hit anything that isn't heading straight at me.

Does increasing WFP increase flight speed?
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Ishar on January 07, 2011, 12:48:24 am
Yes, WPF does the trick. Also, it increases accuracy now, no more PT-only thrower demigods.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Warcat on January 07, 2011, 02:34:03 am
Still not a bad route to take for the first 15-20 levels. Get good and dangerous with your weapon of choice, then learn to hit people with it.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Beans on January 07, 2011, 02:42:56 am
Yes, WPF does the trick. Also, it increases accuracy now, no more PT-only thrower demigods.

So WFP increases both accuracy and projectile speed? Aw

Looks like throwing is gonna be a serious choice to invest in now, instead of a 'freebie' secondary like an xbow.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Warcat on January 07, 2011, 02:45:53 am
I think the shield/throwing combo has always been a good build, just better now. The lance and axes do well in melee.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: ShinySpoons on January 07, 2011, 04:43:51 am
Throwing weapons all around have been slowed down.  Axes for example start curving much earlier. So just hafta get used to the new flight patterns ;)
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Deathwind on January 07, 2011, 01:14:49 pm
I'm enjoying a thrower/polearm hybrid. I keep a quarterstaff, a pike, and two sets of javelins/heavy throwing axes. I throw my weapons at large mobs then pull out the pike or the quarterstaff depending on how many enemies and allies are near me.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Ishar on January 07, 2011, 01:19:42 pm
Throwing weapons all around have been slowed down.  Axes for example start curving much earlier. So just hafta get used to the new flight patterns ;)
That may be true, but try defending at siege! Now, throwing things down a ladder is just gorgeous. You can even hit shielders (no forcefield), enemies have no room to dodge, less tincans that can shrug off axes like it was nothing. I tend to throw both my stacks there, and now I rarely miss.
Funny thing is: it works both ways, have killed my fair share of defenders from the opposite situation.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: audax on January 09, 2011, 05:24:12 pm
That may be true, but try defending at siege! Now, throwing things down a ladder is just gorgeous. You can even hit shielders (no forcefield), enemies have no room to dodge, less tincans that can shrug off axes like it was nothing. I tend to throw both my stacks there, and now I rarely miss.
Funny thing is: it works both ways, have killed my fair share of defenders from the opposite situation.
I saw you today throwing stuff in siege mode \o/

My alt Audacs had quite a success at throwing the heavy axes. I use a shield and 3 stacks axes because they are good enough for melee and 12 are better than 8. Also: 100 WPF is enough.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Dom.Miguel on January 09, 2011, 05:59:07 pm
When you switch to melle mode your 1h wpf kicks in right? so what is a good balance of 1h wpf and trw wpf?
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: audax on January 09, 2011, 07:25:15 pm
When you switch to melle mode your 1h wpf kicks in right? so what is a good balance of 1h wpf and trw wpf?
Yes.
I am fine with 100 each. At Level 30 probably with a focus on 1h, because I throw "good enough". :D
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Ishar on January 09, 2011, 08:10:52 pm
When you switch to melle mode your 1h wpf kicks in right? so what is a good balance of 1h wpf and trw wpf?

Not necessarily. If your throwing weapon is spear-like (Javelins, jarids, lances, maybe war darts too), it's polearm wpf, not 1h.
Throwing wpf is fine at around 100. If you're not a pure thrower, don't go beyond that. Increase 1H as high as you can.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Leiknir on January 09, 2011, 08:19:05 pm
When you switch to melle mode your 1h wpf kicks in right? so what is a good balance of 1h wpf and trw wpf?

My Leiknir_Leiknirsson uses 130 1hand and 100 throwing. I play only with heavy throwing axes in some rounds, works quite well even in melee.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Dom.Miguel on January 10, 2011, 01:54:17 am
Sweet! thank you very much.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Ishar on January 10, 2011, 01:57:00 am
I play only with heavy throwing axes in some rounds, works quite well even in melee.
Isn't range a bitch? I find myself much-much more effective even with a crappy nordic sword.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: audax on January 10, 2011, 02:49:46 am
Isn't range a bitch? I find myself much-much more effective even with a crappy nordic sword.
You can just grab one when you are out of axes. :o
Turns out, tons of guys that I kill use good swords or picks or warhammers.

Anyway...yes, the range is shitty, but I hug my enemy so that does not matter much. Also the damage is very fine.

---

Jarids are awesome and one-shot everything in light armor and a good hit even one-shots a guy in medium or heavy armor. Just. Awesome.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Leiknir on January 10, 2011, 04:06:04 am
Isn't range a bitch? I find myself much-much more effective even with a crappy nordic sword.

As it has no animation/delay to switch between throwing and melee, the enemy gets an axe to the face the second he tries to backpedal. Most 2hand/pole guys cant compute that it might be bad to get out of my melee range, same with shielders, facehug until you broke their shield, and throw. It's a complete different playstyle, if you would use a 1hand you could rarely switch back to throwing.

But as the whiners won, and I can now upkeep my full Nord Huscarl set without big problems, I chose the NC Sword too. Mainly because I fail at counting, and always throw away the last axe :c
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: ShinySpoons on January 10, 2011, 09:26:54 am
Mainly because I fail at counting, and always throw away the last axe :c

I do tooXD at which point I look around madly for a weapon as I dodge an incoming blow
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Warcat on January 10, 2011, 12:08:07 pm
I can usually find some giant 2h sword lying on the ground that I kill people with after running out of ammo.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Braeden on January 11, 2011, 03:12:26 pm
I like to think of the enemy hordes a shopping mall with delivery.

"Ah, what would I like to melee with today.  I'm thinking something fast.  Oh, there's a ninja.  Ninja!  Eat axes!  Well he went down fast.  Ah, katana speed.  Oh nice, its balanced."
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Spawny on January 11, 2011, 04:36:25 pm
I like to think of the enemy hordes a shopping mall with delivery.

"Ah, what would I like to melee with today.  I'm thinking something fast.  Oh, there's a ninja.  Ninja!  Eat axes!  Well he went down fast.  Ah, katana speed.  Oh nice, its balanced."

This. I pick up whatever I find. Now with the early retirement, I'm going for a nice little PT/PS build.

Level 30:
12 PT
12 PS

Just pick up a barmace or something big and sharp and start swinging.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: John408 on January 18, 2011, 01:57:34 am
this might be a little off topic but....i was wondering if going from Power Throw 4 to 5 will make a difference in accuracy/damage wise with heavy throwing axes, (Throwing is my secondary, WPF 80) or am i better off just saving the skillpoint for something better?
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Bashere on February 01, 2011, 08:26:54 pm
Hey I was wondering if you could post the builds you used before you went horse thrower. I was thinking about going this one and wanted to see what you ran with. Oh and anyone have any thoughts about how this one would do. I suck at all the math part of builds so don't know how best to min max. Thanks in advance...

Level 31 (8 892 403 xp)

Strength: 30
Agility: 6
Hit points: 85
Converted: 0
Ironflesh: 10
Power Strike: 10
Shield: 0
Athletics: 0
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 10
Weapon Master: 2
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 90
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 100
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: ShinySpoons on February 02, 2011, 08:16:58 am
@John, every point of pt will increase throwing accuracy/dmg so yes, it'll help even if you have throwing as a secondary. I find it more useful than an extra point of IF

@Bashere

That looks fine, but since you have 6 agi you might as well put a few points in maybe wpf/ath/shield. I assume throwing lances with the polearm prof? If so, throwing lances and a shield will make you an ok support character when you don't have a chance to throw. Or, just put all your stat points into str and have another point of pt. (skill point max in crpg is 15)
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: kura on February 02, 2011, 10:07:17 am
Can stones do headshot and kill from 1 stone?
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Spawny on February 02, 2011, 03:17:16 pm
Can stones do headshot and kill from 1 stone?

With sufficient powerthrow you can kill people in 1 hit when you make a headshot with rocks.
It depends on their headarmour and hp too. Peasants even die from 2 body shots with PT 10+.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Effy on February 07, 2011, 06:08:52 pm
My current character is a thrower and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I want to make my next build after retirement more versatile though. I'm intending to make a 1h/shield-thrower hybrid for harassment/survival. I mostly play siege with a buddy which is why I'm goin to use an odd build. My projected stats at level 30 will be as follows.
Strength - 18
Agility - 18

Power Throw - 6
Power Strike - 6
Athletics - 5
Shield - 5
Weapon Master - 5
With 2 skill points leftover.

5 WM will give me 113 ish skill in 1h and throwing.

Not sure where the last skill points would be best spent. Either weapon master to be better in combat, shield to be more durable, or athletics to be more versatile.

I'll be mostly using jarids or a warhammer with a big sturdy shield and plate armor. It's very similar to my current character except I have 21 strength and 7 power throw currently. I'm a bit weak in melee combat though, so when I run out of jarids I just end up blocking until my shield breaks.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Evgen on February 08, 2011, 11:28:59 am
2 questions related to throwing weapons:

1. Does throwing stone dpends on 1h WPF in melee?
2. What stats (speed, damage, damage type) has throwing lance in melee mode?
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Casimir on February 08, 2011, 11:41:38 am
Cant help with the stats, i imagine they are close to the double sided lance. Still they are fairly effective in melee mode.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Shpongled on February 10, 2011, 10:03:44 am
Cant help with the stats, i imagine they are close to the double sided lance. Still they are fairly effective in melee mode.

It is a double sided lance. Same stats.

Also, at 10+ PT, wardarts get really, really, really good.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Spawny on February 10, 2011, 10:32:01 am
It is a double sided lance. Same stats.

Also, at 10+ PT, wardarts get really, really, really good.

Yup. Very good archer killers. They have 1 major downside though, which is their melee capabilities. I use regular darts most of the time and you can't block with those. Not sure about the wardarts.

Since I don't bring a melee weapon I prefer throwing weapons I can use to block/attack back with.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Shpongled on February 11, 2011, 04:21:12 am
Yup. Very good archer killers. They have 1 major downside though, which is their melee capabilities. I use regular darts most of the time and you can't block with those. Not sure about the wardarts.

Since I don't bring a melee weapon I prefer throwing weapons I can use to block/attack back with.

Well yeah, darts fail at melee. I'm a 2h/throwing hybrid. TBH, any throwing weapon in melee mode sucks bawlz except for lances and even then only with decent prof in polearms.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Spawny on February 11, 2011, 10:31:59 am
Well yeah, darts fail at melee. I'm a 2h/throwing hybrid. TBH, any throwing weapon in melee mode sucks bawlz except for lances and even then only with decent prof in polearms.

The axes work quite well. I kill suprised shielders all the time with them. They're short (don't glance a lot) and do decent damage (especially with my PS). You're just so friggin slow timing is essential.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Shinobi on February 12, 2011, 06:23:05 pm

I also want to know if its 1h but it would be strange if it wasn't, so il just presume it is :)
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: BenMoonlight on April 07, 2011, 11:27:46 am
This is my current build for a pure thrower :

(click to show/hide)

Only a try, but for now, pretty effective on siege maps, as a defenser.
Noone shall pass the ladder i chose to stand above, shield or not (heavy throwing axes). one hit for the most, sometime two hits if really armored, or if i hit legs.

I really don't know if i'm aiming this build :

(click to show/hide)

Or if i'm going to put some points into agility...
i'm really slow, and i have some problems to react when ennemy come to melee.
The unused point will probably go into IF or PS... sometimes, i manage to kill someone with the secondary mode of my axes.

I use Heavy throwing axes, 3 sets, ans a poor shield, to protect from arrows or faster melee fighters.
when i'll have more money, i'll take a good armor, i think, but being so slow won't really be cool...

Any advice ?
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Spawny on April 07, 2011, 03:18:10 pm
My level 30 thrower build has 10 PS and 12 PT with 1 WM. Should've put the WM point into athletics, cuz I'm slow as hell.

ANyway, it gives me 118 wpf in throwing and when I run out of ammo, I can pick up a 2h sword and still kill people. Works like a charm.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Original_Sin on April 07, 2011, 11:51:20 pm
aye, I love heavy throwing axes too.
too bad I have a bug or smth. when throwing an axe it sometimes disappears right in the enemy's model.
happens a lot to me with those turtle shields.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: victis honor on April 10, 2011, 01:39:09 pm
After having tried several types to lvl 15/16 (2hander/polearm/archer/lancer and sword+shield) i liek throwing the most.  Am lvl 24 atm and am going for 18/18 build whit 120 in throwing and the rest in 2hander.

My throwing skill whit HT axes is ok at the moment, but when i use wardarts, javalins or jarids i cannot seem to hit people. Any tips/pointers besides practise that any1 can give me?
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Spawny on April 10, 2011, 02:50:17 pm
Get more powerthrow=higher accuracy.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: victis honor on April 10, 2011, 04:54:56 pm
It is 6 atm.  that woud mean making a 21/18 build.     After some more practise i noticed that the darts.jav/jarids tend to fly more to the top of the aiming reticule (prob for the extra range they have). HT axes are really sweet, a axe to the face of a guy in heavy armour is priceless, also killing some1 behidn your target is funny, never had that as archer.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Spawny on April 11, 2011, 02:30:10 pm
Heavy axes arc so fast their range is limited, but it does provide you with a new tactic:

You can arc your axes over your teammates and hit enemies that would normally have been blocked by your teammates. Works great on even terrain, but requires a minimum range (or the axe won't arc enough) and practise. If you time it wrong, you'll most likely hit a teammate in the back or even worse, headshot him.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: victis honor on April 11, 2011, 03:51:55 pm
I have been doing just that.  has gone wrong a few times:)

Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: ShinySpoons on April 13, 2011, 11:24:34 am
I have been doing just that.  has gone wrong a few times:)

Which is when you switch your axes to melee mode and pretend nothing happened at all...
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: victis honor on April 13, 2011, 11:43:40 am
i just look the other way if it didnt kill him/her:)


Something that is also kickass is killing a horseman when he charges you whit a axe.  Got to wait until he is real close, has ofcourse failed a few times but when it works its a big YAY moment.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: victis honor on May 02, 2011, 04:06:05 pm
the awesomenes of heavy throwing axes has been nerfed hard, javalins are the way to go atmif you want to have some ammo (2.5 mil to go before 31:(.    The throwing aspect is more of a extra now instead of the main thing. atleast thats how i feel it.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Spawny on May 03, 2011, 05:42:18 pm
Got to agree. Right now my PT is too high compared to my WM (At 120 wpf with 12 PT) so I get an accuracy penalty.

Can't use any throwing weapon without even more horrible accuracy than it allready had.

Nice.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Seawied on May 08, 2011, 04:30:46 am
I've rewritten the guide to fit the modern patch.


"Step 1: On your character select page, highlight your character designated as a thrower.
Step 2: Click delete, because chadz DOES NOT LOVE YOU
Step 3: involves buckets of chocolate ice cream and crying into a pillow late into the night.


The end."
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Magikarp on May 09, 2011, 05:15:07 pm
I've rewritten the guide to fit the modern patch.


"Step 1: On your character select page, highlight your character designated as a thrower.
Step 2: Click delete, because chadz DOES NOT LOVE YOU
Step 3: involves buckets of chocolate ice cream and crying into a pillow late into the night.


The end."
Lololololol.

I need to have more wpf to use my one hit kill weapon! Oh noes!
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: cmp on May 09, 2011, 06:09:01 pm
In next patch the penalty is reduced a little, plus throwers get a slight bonus on wpf.

Also, every time Magikarp whines about throwing the penalty is reduced by a further 1%.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Spawny on May 09, 2011, 06:12:37 pm
In next patch the penalty is reduced a little, plus throwers get a slight bonus on wpf.

Also, every time Magikarp whines about throwing the penalty is reduced by a further 1%.

HUZZAH!

Nice change, should make dedicated throwing viable again without making it OP as a secundairy weapon.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Magikarp on May 09, 2011, 07:45:42 pm
In next patch the penalty is reduced a little, plus throwers get a slight bonus on wpf.

Also, every time Magikarp whines about throwing the penalty is reduced by a further 1%.
Good, I'll whine so much that their class gets OP again. Than when you nerf it again, all remnants will GTX and the class will die out. Only Pebble_Pusher shall remain.

Mwuahahaha.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Seawied on May 10, 2011, 06:50:00 am
In next patch the penalty is reduced a little, plus throwers get a slight bonus on wpf.

Also, every time Magikarp whines about throwing the penalty is reduced by a further 1%.

Well this is good news, but it wasn't the WPF that is crippling throwers so much. The amount of ammo throwers have access to is what is really damning. 2 throwing axes, 1.5 jarrids/throwing spears, half a throwing lance per slot? Thats the biggest issue. If you change WPF per PT to 12, make Throwing axes, Jarrids, and throwing spears give 3 per slot, and have throwing lance go up to 1 per slot then things will be about right.

Also, slightly reduce the amount of ammo for the low-tier throwing weapons. 7 war darts? 5 or 6 would be fair. Right now low-tier throwing weapons are waaaaaay better than high tier ones.


P.S. I lawled in real life about the Magikarp comment  :lol:
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Magikarp on May 10, 2011, 09:24:02 pm
Well this is good news, but it wasn't the WPF that is crippling throwers so much. The amount of ammo throwers have access to is what is really damning. 2 throwing axes, 1.5 jarrids/throwing spears, half a throwing lance per slot? Thats the biggest issue. If you change WPF per PT to 12, make Throwing axes, Jarrids, and throwing spears give 3 per slot, and have throwing lance go up to 1 per slot then things will be about right.

Also, slightly reduce the amount of ammo for the low-tier throwing weapons. 7 war darts? 5 or 6 would be fair. Right now low-tier throwing weapons are waaaaaay better than high tier ones.


P.S. I lawled in real life about the Magikarp comment  :lol:
Now, to help you guys get a future nerf which will hopefully let you GTX:
3 Jarrids per slot? 1 Throwing lance per slot? You gotta be kidding me, you actually mean that?
Giving people access to 4 throws a round, 3 if you keep the last one, which can instantly kill someone?

Funny.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Banok on May 11, 2011, 05:09:06 am
In next patch the penalty is reduced a little, plus throwers get a slight bonus on wpf.

Also, every time Magikarp whines about throwing the penalty is reduced by a further 1%.

I dont get this "penalty" is it to do with when it says "your wpf is too low"

is that from when your pt is too high in proportion to your wpf? or is it weapons have a wpf requirement as well as pt?

because when I get that message I can still use the weapon, so what does it actually do?

anyway I tested it a bit and noticed you remove accuracy gain from PT like I suggested so that was a good move to nerf pure str throwers. however you didn't make throwing wpf useful like I also suggested, so I'm hoping this bonus you mention is substantial. because coupled with the slot rape,  throwing is 100% useless right now. before it was too high damage but too random, now its even more random and much less ammo/damage.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: victis honor on May 16, 2011, 01:17:50 pm
For me throwing has become a secondary something at the moment.  Using a 2 hander to grind to 31 (2 mill to go).  In the past it has been a bit op, 12 HTA and a 2 hander but still have a feeling throwing has been hit to hard, as said earlyer ammo is the big problem hitting is not as easy as it seems. (unless idiots run straight at you)  Sword and shield next gen for me most likely, altho archer just to shoot horses seems fun:)
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Spawny on May 16, 2011, 02:13:27 pm
I dont get this "penalty" is it to do with when it says "your wpf is too low"

is that from when your pt is too high in proportion to your wpf? or is it weapons have a wpf requirement as well as pt?

because when I get that message I can still use the weapon, so what does it actually do?

anyway I tested it a bit and noticed you remove accuracy gain from PT like I suggested so that was a good move to nerf pure str throwers. however you didn't make throwing wpf useful like I also suggested, so I'm hoping this bonus you mention is substantial. because coupled with the slot rape,  throwing is 100% useless right now. before it was too high damage but too random, now its even more random and much less ammo/damage.

If you get the message, you have too much PT for wpf, which means your effective PT will drop to wpf/14. So 115 wpf would end up with 8 effective PT. In my case, I go from 11 to 8 because I can't respec. Wearing armour decreases your wpf too, so you pretty much have to be naked with all stats converted to get 10 PT and enough wpf to make use of it.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Cheap_Shot on May 29, 2011, 01:48:00 am
I would like to invite anyone left who still throws to come make your voices heard in this thread.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,5402.0.html

I'm lobbying for throwing to be reintroduced to cRPG in as fair and balanced a way as possible, and I could use the support and opinions of others. Currently it's me and a few others discussing it, while Gorath pops in randomly to say he disagrees with everything ban all ranged.

Come help me keep things on track and find solutions to overnerfing issue.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: victis honor on June 05, 2011, 05:20:59 pm
havent checked the forums in a while, hope it works cheapshot but i think it will not happen. Just look at the 2 slot xbow thread. havent a xbow +12 shots of the best ammo whit 1hshield or a good 2hander is apperently how its supposed to be played. So if any love is handed out it will be for the xbow and not throwing.  ofcourse it helps of devs use the xbow hybrid..
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Gurnisson on June 06, 2011, 07:35:47 pm
ofcourse it helps of devs use the xbow hybrid..

Where did that come from anyway? Fasader's the only dev carrying a crossbow, and he's a dedicated user with an arbalest. How does that make him subjective? He doesn't use a one-slot crossbow, and is not a hybrid.

Also, throwing has ridiculously high rate of fire and can be used with a shield. Throwing needs a buff when it comes to ammo amount, but nothing more.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: dontgothere on June 08, 2011, 04:18:05 am
Hi!  Just thought I'd post my throwing build and chime in to say that I think a pure throwing build isn't so hot right now, though it rocked prepatch.  I'd love it if some tweaks could be made to keep pure-throwing feasible, because right now it's about as effective as being a low-level archer.  Still fun as hell though.  :D

ARTIEstrongestmanINTHEWORLD

Str: 38
Agi: 3
WPF Throw: 107
Athl: 1
PT: 12

Next 31 after retire, though, I'm doing Athl 0 and PT 13, even if throwing remains nerfed.  :P


As for tips all I can say is that first-person view is great for throwing, and at this point war-darts are about the best compromise between quantity and quality; if you can headshot, they're just as good as throwing spears, and throwing lances suck now.

Oh yeah, also, throwing while running is silly unless you're point-blank or using one of the low-tier throwing weapons.  Slow down!  :D


Edit:  Oh snap  :o  I hadn't read about all this wpf/PT penalty stuff.  :P  That sucks!  No wonder my pure-throw build does crap damage now.  :(
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: victis honor on June 09, 2011, 04:44:22 pm
Where did that come from anyway? Fasader's the only dev carrying a crossbow, and he's a dedicated user with an arbalest. How does that make him subjective? He doesn't use a one-slot crossbow, and is not a hybrid.

Also, throwing has ridiculously high rate of fire and can be used with a shield. Throwing needs a buff when it comes to ammo amount, but nothing more.

I dunno where i got it from but am keeping it up until throwing is viable again:) Ammo isnt that bad its that i coud not hit the side of a house standing 1 meter away from it anymore, taking the 1 slot mace or aalange messer alone whit 3 stack of axes is ok ammo, not great but ok lowering the chance to hit is stupid tho.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Ronin on July 21, 2011, 11:16:11 am
Yay throwing is buffed again, and a new weapon throwing hammers are added. Maybe an update on the guide would be cool.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Tot. on July 23, 2011, 07:14:51 pm
I need a 1h+shield build with some franciskas.

      Strength: 18
    Agility: 18
    Hit points: 59

    Skills to attributes: 2

    Ironflesh: 3
    Power Strike: 6
    Shield: 5
    Athletics: 6
    Riding: 0
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 0
    Power Throw: 3
    Weapon Master: 6

    One Handed: 149
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 1
    Archery: 1
    Crossbow: 1
    Throwing: 60

Viable? How would you improve it?
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on July 23, 2011, 07:42:38 pm
No ironflesh and 6 pt would improve your build
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Ronin on July 25, 2011, 08:10:12 pm
and maybe 1 or 2 less shield ability for ironflesh.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Braeden on July 30, 2011, 05:35:00 am
So, I'm very out of the world of throwing, and I know there have been many updates since the opening post was written.  If anyone wants to write a new guide, I'll happily edit it into that post.  Alternatively, someone should make a new thread, because the first post here is very much outdated.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: HarunYahya on July 30, 2011, 05:45:37 am
You'll understand it is useless sometime. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mQJE0VNfGM)
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Dach on August 08, 2011, 12:58:35 am
Here's a little test I made, using heavy throwing axe.

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Info I found out:

- When wearing under 7 weight of combined armor, you need 13 wpf per power throw.
- Shooting 12 axe took 19.5 sec at 100wpf and 18.5 second at 150wpf. (Didn't thought to test at 52wpf  :?)
- The more power throw you take the farther you can shoot your weapon. (It's not a lot thought)
- Power throw doesn't increase your accuracy.
- getting more than the basic 13 wpf per power throw is useless IMO as seen in the picture.
- at 8 pt, killing someone in the chest with 6 IF and 57 body armor, will take 2-3 axe. (range = 3-4 meter. without speed multiplicator)

That's all, hope that help!  :)
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Digglez on August 08, 2011, 05:32:40 am
pretty good data, but would be MUCH better if you used the same reference point each time.  DOesnt help when you have different backgrounds in every picture or 1 color with no distinguishing features
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Dach on August 08, 2011, 09:37:22 am
why would that help?  :?

The difference is pretty evident.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Iymore on August 10, 2011, 09:31:38 pm
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 30
Agility: 12
Hit points: 65

Skills to attributes: 14

Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 0
Shield: 0
Athletics: 3
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 10
Weapon Master: 4

One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 139

is this build good for a lancer thrower?
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Spawny on August 10, 2011, 09:33:51 pm
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 30
Agility: 12
Hit points: 65

Skills to attributes: 14

Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 0
Shield: 0
Athletics: 3
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 10
Weapon Master: 4

One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 139

is this build good for a lancer thrower?

No. You pretty much have to play naked to use your 10 PT. You will die very easily in light armour and 3 athletics with no melee skill to defend yourself.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Iymore on August 10, 2011, 09:36:25 pm
can you make a build for me :oops:
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Dach on August 11, 2011, 03:26:28 am
Here's some you might use...

Light armor 4 slots lance thrower. (max armor combined weight is under 7)

*This one will get you the most chance of getting one hit kill*

Level: 30
Strength: 27
Agility: 9
Hit points: 72

Skills to attributes: 2

Ironflesh: 5
Power Strike: 9
Shield: 0
Athletics: 3
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 9
Weapon Master: 3

Polearm: 74
Throwing: 117

Medium armor 4 slots lance thrower. (approx 20 weight of combined armor)

*This one is more balanced overall, but don't expect one hit kill on medium armor str user or better*

Level: 30
Strength: 21
Agility: 15
Hit points: 66

Skills to attributes: 2

Ironflesh: 5
Power Strike: 7
Shield: 0
Athletics: 5
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 7
Weapon Master: 5

Polearm: 104
Throwing: 120

So either of these build can swap Ironflesh for Shield skill, but you will lose one ammo, thought you can play as support like a hoplite.





Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Iymore on August 11, 2011, 03:29:33 am
thank you!

fuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Iron Flesh 3
Power Strike 9
Shield 0 3
Athletics 3
Riding 0
Horse Archery 0
Power Draw 2
Power Throw 9
Weapon Master 3
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Dach on August 12, 2011, 01:29:53 am
New info:

Every point you put into horse archery, increase your need in wpf by power throw point.

I don't know how much exactly right now, i'll try to test it later.

Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Dach on August 15, 2011, 06:44:26 am
New info (again):

- Each point in horse archery increase your wpf need by 10. (except the first, don't know why)

Also about armor reducing wpf...

It's a wild guess but I think above 7 weight of combined armor, you need wpf = to your combined weight + 7.

Gonna need to try more testing on that.

Here's the accuracy test i made for horse archery, going from 0 to 3.

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Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Mial on August 15, 2011, 10:19:57 am
I didn't know, horse archery has anything to do with throwing.
So horse archery increases both your wpf-need and accuracy? On a horse or also on foot?
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Dach on August 16, 2011, 02:10:25 am
Horse archery increase accuracy while moving on a horse for every ranged weapon.

That help with bow, crossbow and throwing.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Zandieer on December 25, 2011, 11:08:44 am
Hey  :oops: could anyone help me to build a good Stone thrower build/s?
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on December 25, 2011, 03:32:43 pm
Here is one for stones:
Strength: 27
Agility: 12
Hit points: 62
Skills to attributes: 8

Power Strike: 6
Athletics: 4
Power Throw: 9
Weapon Master: 4

Throwing: 138

Altho there are alot of variations on stone throwing builds depending how fast or powerfull do you want to be.
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Lennu on December 25, 2011, 04:08:41 pm
I'm quite happy with my current build:

Lvl 31 (on lvl 32 go for +3 IF)

STR 21
AGI 18

pt 7
ps7
ath 6
wm 6

Throwing 121 wpf
2handed 119 wpf

Use a bit faster 2handed weapon than usually (because of low 2handed wpf) like Two Handed Sword or Miaodao, or switch completely to a 1slot weapon for more throwing ammo. Still, this build is almost like any other 21/18 2handed build with the freedom of backing off from the melee to toss in a spear or two before engaging again  :)

Non-loomed armor rate is:
35 head
46 body
33 legs

This is my main  :wink:
Title: Re: The Art of Throwing
Post by: Zandieer on December 27, 2011, 01:06:31 pm
Here is one for stones:
Strength: 27
Agility: 12
Hit points: 62
Skills to attributes: 8

Power Strike: 6
Athletics: 4
Power Throw: 9
Weapon Master: 4

Throwing: 138

Altho there are alot of variations on stone throwing builds depending how fast or powerfull do you want to be.

Thanks, this build build is doing wonders :D