Author Topic: Mordhau  (Read 37143 times)

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Offline Xant

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #225 on: May 24, 2019, 07:41:12 pm »
+1
I think new game modes, or even genres, would be the most interesting. You'd need some decently sized, skilled modders for that, though. But the graphics, physics, combat and gore of Mordhau would work extremely well in e.g. a survival type game.
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Offline Golem

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #226 on: May 25, 2019, 11:04:47 am »
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inb4 Mordhau surf
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Offline Xant

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #227 on: June 04, 2019, 12:42:28 pm »
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Dueling in Mordhau's really addictive and deceptively complex. There are a lot of valid styles of dueling even at the high level, and the timed parry system makes every single exchange very involved. You've got to make split second decisions every time your opponent attacks, because you only get the one, tiny parry window. And the quickest attacks hit very fast. So you have this interplay of accels, drags, morphs, feints, chambers, kicks, and all the different attack angles. Plus stamina adds another level of depth to it -- there's always an underlying stamina game beneath the surface level duel, and it's something you have to take into account when deciding what to do. There are ways to recover if you're behind, like landing a kick, which deals a ton of stamina damage. And one of the most satisfying things is dodging attacks with body movement, "matrixing." And all of this has a lot more depth than WB because you have to really read e.g. feints, very fast (instead of not caring about whether something's a feint or not, because you're going to hold block either way). So you need to differentiate between all the different attack types and their combinations and defend based on that.

Defense is a lot harder than in WB, but more rewarding, and attacking allows for much more creativity. The skill gaps are a lot more obvious as well, as a result. Someone who can easily 30-0 an average duel server can get killed in seconds by a good competitive duel server player, who'll in turn probably get killed very fast by the top players. There's one top duel server in EU, and it's pretty funny to be able to recognize almost every person  who knows how to duel well by name, despite the huge amount of overall players.

The only real medicore thing about the game is the already mentioned shallowness of the game modes. Frontline and Skirmish just don't feel as satisfying as cRPG battle. But because that's not due to the game mechanics, it's fixable fairly easily by changing certain parameters. Whether that's something the devs'll do, or the modders, remains to be seen, but I'm fairly optimistic it's going to get better in that regard. I still have more fun in Frontline than I had in Native WB battle servers. I actually think it might be as easy as letting people play slightly modified Skirmish in Frontline maps. Plus an enhanced progression system would be good, since a large part of cRPG's attraction was seeing little numbers change into bigger numbers and the feeling of working towards something.

Pacing of the duels can also vary a lot based on how your opponent fights. They can get really fast-paced sometimes between people who fight mostly with accels and chambers. Some duels against people ranging from pretty good to good, all of them would beat the vast majority of people in most duel servers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skyY_8VC9KI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PcN2bbmrX8

I think anyone who likes melee slashers like Warband is doing himself a disservice if he doesn't give Mordhau a fair chance. And that means sticking with it for some hours at the least, because coming from Warband a lot of things might seem bad just because of what you're used to.
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Offline Vibe

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #228 on: June 04, 2019, 01:51:47 pm »
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Gave Mordhau a go, I think it's a good game in it's own way and visually it's very pleasing. They definitely captured the weight of your attacks well. There's definitely a lot of skill involved in combat, courtesy of timed blocks and ways to get around it (accels, drags, feints/morphs etc). I've been matrixed recently by a naked dude with a maul, that was pretty sick to see. A very decent amount of customization. BR I didn't like much, it was ok at best, Frontline is good for an hour or two.

Definitely missing a good game mode, I think battle-type game mode would do this game great justice. Something grand scale, round based where tactics and team composition can be developed, a frontline with shield walls, supporting ranged, cavalry flanks etc. You know, the shit we've seen in cRPG battle. Cav seems a bit strong to me in Mordhau, wouldn't mind that getting adjusted a bit. Balistas and catapults this game could easily do without. Needs more maps as well.
So I really hope they do add a better gamemode. They've got the hard parts of the game development down, they just need a few more additions to really make an enjoyable game.

Btw, I noticed your mouse movement is slowed down while swinging - does increasing overall mouse sensitivity help with faster drags/accels? I have my mouse sens pretty low, almost fps levels. Not sure if that hampers the speed of my accels/drags.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 01:55:22 pm by Vibe »

Offline Xant

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #229 on: June 04, 2019, 03:03:52 pm »
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Yeah pretty much exactly what you said. Ballistas and catapults just piss me off, but I can see why they were added. They want to appeal to a casual playerbase, give someone something to do even if they suck. I'm OK with that mechanic being ballistas/catapults/horses/archery, considering that FPS games in particular have solved the casual-appeal issue with some really retarded gimmicks (TF2 critical hits for example) that affect the actual combat itself. And thankfully archery is pretty shitty in Mordhau, what with the chase mechanic (something cRPG could've really used) and slow moving, parriable projectiles, lowish damage and heal on kill often completely negating archery damage.

I think Skirmish is the best mode, outside of duel. It's just a shame it's very simple and small-scale. Like you said they've got the hard parts down, which is why it's a bit frustrating they won't do some simple tweaks to Skirmish to make it a really great game mode, much better than the TDM-like Frontline. And on some maps, like Grad, it actually already gets close to cRPG battle. If there were Grad-only servers, I'd play Skirmish a lot more. But most of the maps are way too small.

Two game modes in the works right now are King of the Hill and Push: https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/17102/new-gamemodes-in-the-work-koth-push/

Asymmetric game modes like Push could be fun, but I really think one-life game modes are where it's at. They change the pace. You can flank, you can have skirmishes on the outskirts and big battles in the middle, etc. In the respawn modes, you can flank but you'll have a new wave on your ass almost immediately, so it devolves into TDM often. Still, Frontline can be fun for an hour or so now and then, but it doesn't have the depth to keep me playing.

Cav does seem really strong, but I don't know if it's OP. I just ignore it until I get lanced in the back while in a fight with people, just like in cRPG. Fun and interactive. At least it doesn't knock you down in Mordhau. Billhook also seems like a hard counter, the alt mode will pull riders off of the horse in one hit. Of course, again, in chaotic respawn modes like Frontline there isn't really any incentive for some people to guard the main body of teammates from cav with billhooks, like there would be in cRPG battle style mode.

Sensitivity is hard-capped when you swing, increasing DPI or in-game sensitivity does nothing. For drags, slower is faster. It's actually hard to move your mouse slow enough to get the maximum effect from drags. At least I instinctively tried to move my mouse too fast away from the target for a really long time, and that just means your drag is going to be bad. Try starting a swing, and during the grunt try to drag by moving your mouse as fast as possible. Your camera's going to move like 10 degrees. Then try it slow and steady. You'll go like 90 degrees. In other words, try staying just below the sensitivity cap, and you'll have the most freedom of movement during swings. I think that's probably more difficult with high sens, because you go from this super sensitive mouse to a mouse you want to move veeeeery slowly during swinging. And the sensitivity cap is really low, so your sensitivity shouldn't be a negative at all. Great drags are really hard, mine actually sucked and never caught anyone decent until like two days ago when I figured them out better, so my offense was mostly based on accels and feints. Harder for the opponent to distinguish between an accel and a drag, though.

And for accels it doesn't matter what your sens is, as long as you can reasonable look around. This, for example, is about the hardest accel you can do: 

https://youtu.be/skyY_8VC9KI?t=7

A riposte overhead, where my camera's already positioned before the swing begins. Only way I could accel it harder would be by crouching. All other hard accels start with your camera already being in position when the swing starts, too. Sensitivity has no effect. If you start from neutral, i.e., aiming at the enemy, you're still only going to be moving your mouse a little for the accel after the grunt, much less than with a drag.

Protip: make use of ripostes early on. I was a retard and barely knew they existed for like 60 hours.

And re: drags:
https://youtu.be/3PcN2bbmrX8?t=25

https://youtu.be/skyY_8VC9KI?t=16

These are the same attack, except in the first example my drags were still shit, and my opponent would've block this epic drag even if he parried for an accel. In the second, it's both harder to read and impossible to block with the same timing as you'd block an accel. Subtle difference in how they look, but very important. That's why good drags are so difficult to master, it's literally a matter of milliseconds, so not hitting the sens cap by moving your mouse too fast is really important.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 03:11:04 pm by Xant »
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Offline Vibe

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #230 on: June 04, 2019, 03:40:56 pm »
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Thanks for the tips. I know my drags are basic because decent players keep blocking them. Never though of actually dragging the mouse slower, I just looked away as fast as I could. Prepositioning camera for the accel is also a great tip. About ripostes I know, but I kinda just forget about them and how fast you can attack after blocking...

Offline Xant

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #231 on: June 04, 2019, 04:25:24 pm »
+1
I'd also recommend using binds. I stuck with 240 for a hundred hours because it's similar to Warband, but binds just feel so much cleaner. You always do what you want to do, and your camera is much more stable. Also makes different footwork feints/attacks easier because you can freely move your camera. I use LMB for right slash, mwheeldown for stab, mwheelup for overhead, mouse 4 for underhand, and shift to change direction. I regret not switching earlier (I'm at 170ish hours now), and it took fighting top tier players to convince me to switch over.

Also: bind sprint to W. MASSIVE quality of life improvement. It frees up shift for other uses, first of all, but more than that it means you don't need to constantly keep shift pressed down. You should always be sprinting when attacking, so there's no reason whatsoever not to have both move forward and sprint on W. I've got a separate walk-only button on Alt for when I want to heal, though crouch-walking is only fractionally slower than it.
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Offline Vibe

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #232 on: June 04, 2019, 04:28:37 pm »
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Also: bind sprint to W. MASSIVE quality of life improvement. It frees up shift for other uses, first of all, but more than that it means you don't need to constantly keep shift pressed down. You should always be sprinting when attacking, so there's no reason whatsoever not to have both move forward and sprint on W. I've got a separate walk-only button on Alt for when I want to heal, though crouch-walking is only fractionally slower than it.

Oh damn, I was actually looking for that. I tried the toggle sprint option but your sprint still got cancelled at certain points. Will definitely rebind.

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #233 on: June 04, 2019, 06:06:21 pm »
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Gave Mordhau a go, I think it's a good game in it's own way and visually it's very pleasing. They definitely captured the weight of your attacks well. There's definitely a lot of skill involved in combat, courtesy of timed blocks and ways to get around it (accels, drags, feints/morphs etc). I've been matrixed recently by a naked dude with a maul, that was pretty sick to see. A very decent amount of customization. BR I didn't like much, it was ok at best, Frontline is good for an hour or two.

Definitely missing a good game mode, I think battle-type game mode would do this game great justice. Something grand scale, round based where tactics and team composition can be developed, a frontline with shield walls, supporting ranged, cavalry flanks etc. You know, the shit we've seen in cRPG battle. Cav seems a bit strong to me in Mordhau, wouldn't mind that getting adjusted a bit. Balistas and catapults this game could easily do without. Needs more maps as well.
So I really hope they do add a better gamemode. They've got the hard parts of the game development down, they just need a few more additions to really make an enjoyable game.

Btw, I noticed your mouse movement is slowed down while swinging - does increasing overall mouse sensitivity help with faster drags/accels? I have my mouse sens pretty low, almost fps levels. Not sure if that hampers the speed of my accels/drags.

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Offline Asheram

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #234 on: June 13, 2019, 02:28:43 am »
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Offline Xant

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #235 on: June 13, 2019, 03:48:29 am »
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Looks so bad. Assets straight out of Chiv 1 after two years of development.
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Offline Xant

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Offline Vibe

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #237 on: June 13, 2019, 11:21:13 pm »
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Sounds nice, but will this be single life? I think only a single life gamemode (ala battle) can truly bring out the real team vs team.

Offline Xant

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #238 on: June 14, 2019, 12:50:20 am »
+2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ6UJ90uvdI

Ran across the best Chivalry duelist and one of the best Mordhau duelists and triggered him a little bit


And it won't be single life, but I keep hearing Chivalry's Team Objective was amazing and they want to copy that, so we'll see.
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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #239 on: June 16, 2019, 05:13:11 pm »
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ6UJ90uvdI

Ran across the best Chivalry duelist and one of the best Mordhau duelists and triggered him a little bit


And it won't be single life, but I keep hearing Chivalry's Team Objective was amazing and they want to copy that, so we'll see.

Fucking lol, calling you retarded and brain dead for beating him, please tell me who this guy is so I can troll him in the future  :D.