Author Topic: Agi the super skill  (Read 2371 times)

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Offline StonedSteel

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Re: Agi the super skill
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2015, 06:59:38 pm »
+3
"Welcome to the club, I ve been arguing for more than a year that AGI is OP compared to STR, because of the retarded speed bonus damage that the high agility builds receive."

easy to agree with, as it is true, but theres really no point in posting these things anymore.

guy spends time and does an in depth comparison, but will these points be discussed by the community? nope, another "game is currently bad, needs changes" swept under the rug...BOOM, chamber of tears.

m0d is dead, it could have gone on for a lot longer. shame how it all turned out, lot of people seem to blame tydeus...but at the end of the day you have chadz allowing these changes to happen, and folks like gravoth defending these changes, as well as admins and moderators who do their best to remove any and all valid criticisms of crpg from general discussion.

i see alot of crpg players coming over to native, and i laugh...if game was so old, why do they still play native? they arnt coming to native because they are bored with crpg, they come because crpg is garbage right now.

but hey, im just an angry mindless autist...all i can do, is speak the truth, and collect the downvotes from delusional crpg fucks.

this mod and its community, could have gone on for a LOT longer. but its over, and it deserves to be over, you lads got what was coming to you.
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Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: Agi the super skill
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2015, 07:25:20 pm »
0
(click to show/hide)

"valid criticisms" while being valid, they are usually QQ based. Like most of yours, ive had to get 5 posts out of you before you actually stated what you thought was broken with agi (only saying that its OP doesnt really say much) and even then it wasnt the attribute being too strong, but you said that it makes the game lag from too high movement speed.

A lot of the criticisms are also biased and just generally hating. Sometimes based from people that arent even agi builds, just made because they lost to someone with better footwork. And look at Raz's now, he didnt even make proper comparisons, but only made theories, and then went from a decent agi build to a fullout str whore build with katana (not viable in most peoples books).

Most agi QQ seems to come from people who arent that experienced with the mod, while the general veteran players opinion is that balance is strongest, with a couple preffering to have a bit more str or a bit more agi. The reason inexperienced players dislikes agi more is probably because proper footwork and agility stands out more than the pros of strength. And because it shines in duels, and allows for a cheap backstabby style, while str is puts more effort into positioning but allows more risks, and a more consistent outcome.
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Offline Leshma

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Re: Agi the super skill
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2015, 09:04:12 pm »
-1
The reason inexperienced players dislikes agi more is probably because proper footwork and agility stands out more than the pros of strength.

Proper footwork exist just in native module, just like proper dueling.

Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: Agi the super skill
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2015, 09:40:14 pm »
-1
Proper footwork exist just in native module, just like proper dueling.

Kek, shows how much you actually know about this mod.
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Offline Ras_FrenzYYY

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Re: Agi the super skill
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2015, 09:49:22 am »
+3

A lot of the criticisms are also biased and just generally hating. Sometimes based from people that arent even agi builds, just made because they lost to someone with better footwork. And look at Raz's now, he didnt even make proper comparisons, but only made theories, and then went from a decent agi build to a fullout str whore build with katana (not viable in most peoples books).


I think i stated 5 facts about agi being better than str. Do you disagree with that?

Footwork has nothing to do with Agi. This is a myth.  Only if you backpedal and stab (GTX playstyle) . Then yes if you call the ''s'' key footwork then i have to agree.

So do you believe is fair that agi does more dmg? Do you think is fair that you can run faster ride the best horses have the best shield have more wp more dmg output .So make a proper comparison.
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Offline Paul

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Re: Agi the super skill
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2015, 12:51:05 pm »
+5
Some time ago ranged speed bonus was changed from the (imo realistic) kinetic energy based squared speed-damage relation(doubled speed, quadrupled damage) to a linear momentum-oriented way(doubled speed, doubled damage). Tydeus. Dunno how it is for melee at the moment. Different to ranged one could argue for melee that without the strength to grip the weapon tight during the impact, speed shouldn't help for extra damage. So the bad idea of the day could be: str based(among other parameters) upper limits for raw damage.

Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: Agi the super skill
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2015, 06:47:27 pm »
+1
I think i stated 5 facts about agi being better than str. Do you disagree with that?

Footwork has nothing to do with Agi. This is a myth.  Only if you backpedal and stab (GTX playstyle) . Then yes if you call the ''s'' key footwork then i have to agree.

So do you believe is fair that agi does more dmg? Do you think is fair that you can run faster ride the best horses have the best shield have more wp more dmg output .So make a proper comparison.

Footwork is literally movement, and s-key is a movement. Using it to your advantage would be using proper footwork. Footwork does have much to do with agility, since agility not only makes it easier but also giving it more potential. I really dont see the hate on S-key, its the very core footwork to do in this game.

So what is footwork in your book if not s-key? w only? but agility does have things to do with w... hmm..

I saw the so called facts, but im not sure if they can be called facts since you havent made proper comparisons, you could be pulling shit out of your ass. Allthough i do agree on some points, but i cant say for sure if an agi based build would out damage a strenght based one, out of personal experience i feel like strength has the most consistent damage, while agility has more potential, but the difference in highest damage hits is pretty much the same. But then, you are comparing a 18-24 build to a 39-3 build or whatever strength whore build you have.

Your second point in having 30 agi 0 athl gives the same movespeed as 7 athl, bullshit, i did a 13-45 something attributes only build, i was slower than most people in heavy armor and i was in light.

Third point, yes you do get more wp, but with a balance build you have plenty and wont have to go for more agility, hell you can even hybrid at 18 agi. Sure, it becomes harder at lower agility, but thats also when things get less viable, and hybriding would make it even more poop.

Fourth, afaik most cav just goes for minimum req for the heavy horses (maybe this is old cav builds im not sure), you can get some more i guess basing your build on agility but i really cant see how much it would be worth. Builds are still centered around balanced attributes here, so to me they are still both worth it.

As for shields, its also just meet lowest requirement or sit around 4 or 5 points in it, thats 15 agi, which makes it viable to most strwhores, staying around balanced attributes still the best.


As for the 2 points on health, if you can manage to do decent footwork and positioning with low movespeed then you can get heavy armor and tank 3 or 4 times the amount an agi build could, id say thats pretty decent, all things considered. You wont have to run unless youve managed to put yourself into that position, which could be prevented (most of the time, unless the team is complete ass).


Damage penalty not having agi? i think at below 12 agi you start losing out on potential, or maybe it was 9, cant remember, but the same happens with having less than 12 str, you lose out on damage. Hell i think you star losing out on it when below 18 str.

Also i see heskey contributing plenty as usual, the person ive actually never even see play this game, but hell this forum is a game of its own.
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Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: Agi the super skill
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2015, 07:20:25 pm »
0
A fine game indeed. If you saw me in-server I think you might still dispute whether or not you'd seen me actually playing the game.

And I was contributing in a sense since I am well acquainted with your stance on the matter (your own post above confirms that my post was not wrong, just lacking in detail).

I could have specified that you believe S-key is footwork based on your response to the GTX/Xesta duel thread where someone commented that the duel would likely be an S-key feint spam fest and that you said it would be because they are good players.

Regarding agility and damage you have previously stated that Str gives more consistent damage but agility gives the opportunity for both higher and lower damage depending on movement, and that you feel this is the correct dynamic.

You have previously in general concluded that Str-whores rule the server still (from your personal experience) and that the current balance is pretty good if a little pro-str.

I may not agree with you but at least I pay attention (and at least you're consistent!). So I don't feel it was overly harmful to state that you are absolutely fine with the various points Ras raised as potential balance issues, and that you consider them fine and well balanced.

While you did indeed answear correctly on my opinions, its still unecessary since if you know me this well i will veery much make a response of my own telling my opinions in more detail. It just seems douchey and repetative to make posts like that as if you have something against me personally, im not sure if you really do though, all my posts are in good fun and passion anyways allthough some may take offense to different opinions.
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Offline Shemaforash

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Re: Agi the super skill
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2015, 02:39:41 pm »
+3
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« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 04:43:05 pm by Shemaforash »
You should be punished for having a shitty attitude.

Offline Alvin_the_Chipmunk

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Re: Agi the super skill
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2015, 07:55:46 pm »
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Be quiet and go troll the archers.
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