Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Thomek]

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Thomek, I can disagree with you, maybe you are talking about 90s then I can agree. Well I can say after USSR was broken, all people in Russia thought that USA will help Russia to become democratic country, I remember how many talkings were about that, but USA used that situation, NATO moved to the East, many billions of dollars went to USA and Europe and Russia sucked for 15 years, a lot of people in Russia became poor. Very interesting why the corruption raised so high. Europe and USA with pleasure got all those money and people who left the country with those money. About business in my country, you should watch the statistics about how many foreign companies open their branches in Russia. Russia only now becomes more powerfull and tries to make people's life better. And this anti-russian propoganda will not help to solve any problems with Russia. We have enough resourses to become the most powerfull country and we started to do it, seems somebody on the West doesn't like it.

Ah you mean rich Americans like Abramovich? Sorry..

Russians stole your country man. Wake up please.

No one invaded USSR. Your country fell apart by its own hands.

I won't go into the reasons why it happened.. Perhaps a mix of too much capitalism too fast, and too many corrupt Russians who finally had a chance to take what they "deserved" for what they had suffered. Also, understand the US didn't have a clue about USSR falling. The biggest failure of CIA in history was total failure to predict it, even right up to the moment it happened. Sure a lot of cowboys tried their luck in the 90's but I'm sure the oligarchs have hustled most of it back to RF hands by now.

BTW I think the main reason people would have their money abroad, is that their money is not safe in Russia.
If you had a billion $$$.. Would you put it in a Russian bank?   Thank your corrupt law system for money fleeing Russia.

I'm not preaching anti-russian propaganda here. I'm telling it like it really is. I have no personal hate towards russians at all. As I've stated many times I think they are great people, and I have met many and have many russian friends.

Yes, you have vast resources, but you don't have a system capable of not wasting it or stealing it.

More than anything I sense that russians in here have a tendency to:

1. Blame russian troubles on someone else. (Not productive, but understandable. It's the easiest path to think)
2. Label things anti-russian propaganda. (While in fact, Russian propaganda encourages you to think like that. I'm just stating what I think, perhaps it's influenced by anti-russian propaganda who knows. But these are my own thoughts and experiences. Please don't call them propaganda.  )

[Butan]

Also, understand the US didn't have a clue about USSR falling. The biggest failure of CIA in history was total failure to predict it, even right up to the moment it happened. Sure a lot of cowboys tried their luck in the 90's but I'm sure the oligarchs have hustled most of it back to RF hands by now.

Hmmm... I agree that they didnt predict USSR crumbling at the day it did, but I hope you're not going as far as saying they were not doing whatever they could to make it crumble. That would be revisionism at best.

[Thomek]

Yes, of course, but if you know a little bit of history, it wasn't very strange that it crumbled. It was a fucked up system that didn't work.

This was the MAIN cause, not US politics. And that was my point here. Some people points fingers blaming the west for their misery, while what they should be doing is look at their own system:

Which very hard and near impossible in RF, because they don't have free media, and during a current (propaganda made) consensus that Russia is under threat, if you buy that, then you will much easier buy into all the other shit they serve. If I believed my country was under threat, I would probably too call foreign/enemy info propaganda.

NATO is not, and will not ever threaten Russia as long as MAD is in effect. Because it is suicide, and no one can "win" such a war. Nobody wants that. NATO is expanding because surrounding nations are afraid of Russia, owing to their experience with them.

Anyway.. Main problem, like so many other problems in this world, are that Putin thinks, and many Russians too, that people think like they themselves think. Cynical world, chessplaying world, Realpolitik. I mean.. Russia staged and supported separatists in Georgia and Moldova. This makes it only natural that Maidan was staged in a Russian's eyes. Because Russia wants to dominate Ukraine, that makes it only natural that this is the purpose of EU..

[DonNicko]

More than anything I sense that russians in here have a tendency to:

1. Blame russian troubles on someone else. (Not productive, but understandable. It's the easiest path to think)
2. Label things anti-russian propaganda. (While in fact, Russian propaganda encourages you to think like that. I'm just stating what I think, perhaps it's influenced by anti-russian propaganda who knows. But these are my own thoughts and experiences. Please don't call them propaganda.  )

More than anything I sense that some people in here have a tendency to:

1. Blame ukranian troubles on Russia. (Not productive, but understandable. It's the easiest path to think)
2. Label things russian anti-western propaganda. (While in fact, Western propaganda encourages you to think like that. I'm just stating what I think, perhaps it's influenced by russian propaganda who knows. But these are my own thoughts and experiences. Please don't call them propaganda.  )

Anyway.. Main problem, like so many other problems in this world, are that Putin thinks, and many Russians too, that people think like they themselves think. Cynical world, chessplaying world, Realpolitik. I mean.. Russia staged and supported separatists in Georgia and Moldova. This makes it only natural that Maidan was staged in a Russian's eyes. Because Russia wants to dominate Ukraine, that makes it only natural that this is the purpose of EU..

USA supported Georgia genocide, in Moldova situation is calm. USA supported Maidan. Libya, Syria, Iraq, Iran, tried to make orange revolution in Belarus. Interesting that USA made a sanctions against Lukashenko, he can't visit USA and some others country, ask them why. Answer me please how Russia controlled Ukraine, you said that.

[Xant]

1. Blame ukranian troubles on Russia. (Not productive, but understandable. It's the easiest path to think)

Yeah, what the fuuuuuuuuuck man, all Russia ever did is invade, bomb and threaten Ukraine.

[Tibe]

More than anything I sense that some people in here have a tendency to:

1. Blame ukranian troubles on Russia. (Not productive, but understandable. It's the easiest path to think)

Well yea. Once they kicked the corrupt president out and got a new government, it didnt even take 5 seconds for Russia to instantly call it chocolate chip cookie and state that they arent going to have a dialog with anyone in it. Its not a perfect government, sure, but Kremlin didnt even give them a benefit of the doubt.

2. Label things russian anti-western propaganda. (While in fact, Western propaganda encourages you to think like that. I'm just stating what I think, perhaps it's influenced by russian propaganda who knows. But these are my own thoughts and experiences. Please don't call them propaganda.  )

West didnt label anything. Russia itself turned everything russian into anti-western propaganda. Its kinda like North-Korea. Everything North-Korean is anti-west. And they did that all by themselves, they admit it doing it and they keep on doing it. Cause clearly fighting Evil West is more important than the wellfair of its citizens. Which is what Russia is doing atm. Modern tanks and more lands wont make your country less poor you know.

[DonNicko]

Well yea. Once they kicked the corrupt president out and got a new government, it didnt even take 5 seconds for Russia to instantly call it chocolate chip cookie and state that they arent going to have a dialog with anyone in it. Its not a perfect government, sure, but Kremlin didnt even give them a benefit of the doubt.

Really don't want to give you what the russian government said about situation in Ukraine, because seems you will put it out of your back, but you are wrong, you are right if you are talking about fake russian news and propoganda.

West didnt label anything. Russia itself turned everything russian into anti-western propaganda. Its kinda like North-Korea. Everything North-Korean is anti-west. And they did that all by themselves, they admit it doing it and they keep on doing it. Cause clearly fighting Evil West is more important than the wellfair of its citizens. Which is what Russia is doing atm. Modern tanks and more lands wont make your country less poor you know.

Yeah ofcourse because of that Obama gave the second place of evils to Russian actions. As you would know show me russian propoganda against Europe. But I can show you USA anti-russian propoganda

[Butan]

NATO is not, and will not ever threaten Russia as long as MAD is in effect. Because it is suicide, and no one can "win" such a war.

Threatening have been done hundreds of time, though there was no direct confrontation yet. My point is they know not to directly attack each other, but they do everything else quite liberally (unconventional wars, proxy wars, cover ops, political games, propaganda...) and they do it all the time since end of WWII, with high and low, highs being "cold war" times, lows being fake friends times.

The only way it ever stop will not be Eastern countries becoming better. Whatever are the real flaws of their system (and every countries on the planet have problems, no need to create a fake parallel universe where Russia is the only place where there is corruption), its not the source of the conflict.
The problem is they do not follow World Police Diplomacy led by USA and NATO. As long as they dont bend the knee and keep being the little rebels, they will be the targets of mass destabilization through every means available, and it is extremely likely that the problems they had, have and will have in the future, their political enemies have a hand in it. Quite simple really.


If you believe that a corrupt free Russia with no poverty and efficient bureaucratic system, and having care-bears leading diplomacy spreading love and happiness all around them, negotiating with everything and everyone; if you believe that that would mean that NATO-centric nations will suddenly begin to lower their guns and renew diplomatic agreements, you're living in a dream.
The only thing it will do is increase the livelihood of Russians and make it harder for anti-russians propaganda to hit home.

[Tovi]

This is the kind of propaganda you can see in Ukraine to make them love EU :

Well, maybe 1% of french people live like this.

[Molly]

Tovi? Did you actually watch it before posting?

[Tovi]

Tovi? Did you actually watch it before posting?

More or less... why ?

[DonNicko]

More or less... why ?

This is one of the most popular program in Russia, I like to watch it)

[Tovi]

It's like to say :


 "this is african house. We should all live like africans.

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And this is where french live :"

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[Kuujis]

USA supported Georgia genocide, in Moldova situation is calm. USA supported Maidan. Libya, Syria, Iraq, Iran, tried to make orange revolution in Belarus. Interesting that USA made a sanctions against Lukashenko, he can't visit USA and some others country, ask them why. Answer me please how Russia controlled Ukraine, you said that.

Genocide in Georgia supported by US? Sources please?

Stable situation in Moldova you say... in what kind of definition do you consider a state "stable", when part of it is occupied by russian soldiers, who pretend to be "keeping peace"? Or "stable" is anything, until there is no war going on?

And again - you want to whine about US? Go on some RT live show, there somone MAYBE would care to liste to you. In Ukraine it was russia who caused the bullshit and continues to do so. To deny and not see it is... well... "only in putlers russia" (c).

[DonNicko]

Genocide in Georgia supported by US? Sources please?

Stable situation in Moldova you say... in what kind of definition do you consider a state "stable", when part of it is occupied by russian soldiers, who pretend to be "keeping peace"? Or "stable" is anything, until there is no war going on?

And again - you want to whine about US? Go on some RT live show, there somone MAYBE would care to liste to you. In Ukraine it was russia who caused the bullshit and continues to do so. To deny and not see it is... well... "only in putlers russia" (c).

Kuujis, just read statements that USA made after 08.08.08
Kuujis you are just one of the russian hater, there was peaceful agreement of 21 february 2014, are you so blind not to see why this agreement were ignored and by whom. And after that you want to say that Russia caused it, then read this agreement better.