Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Vovka]

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  Serr, есть знакомые/знакомые знакомых среди погибших правосеков? сеня наша украинка сплетничала после очередных звонков с украины, грят все правосеки в моргах лежат выпотрошенные... Вчера ее родственники эвакуировались (решились после того как куря на балконе (под окнами трасса) проехало пара открытых грузовиков с трупами), а тут как раз сделали безопасный коридор на вокзале однако пара фугасов прилетело, женщине голову оторвало ну и прочие ужастики почти из первых рук.

[serr]

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Serr, есть знакомые/знакомые знакомых среди погибших правосеков? сеня наша украинка сплетничала после очередных звонков с украины, грят все правосеки в моргах лежат выпотрошенные... Вчера ее родственники эвакуировались (решились после того как куря на балконе (под окнами трасса) проехало пара открытых грузовиков с трупами), а тут как раз сделали безопасный коридор на вокзале однако пара фугасов прилетело, женщине голову оторвало ну и прочие ужастики почти из первых рук.

Нету, правосеков вообще только в новостях видно. Слухов конечно много ходит, но в основном бред.

[DonNicko]

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Soo... referendum was legit, memorandum of Budapest 1994 is toilet paper and little-green-men blocking and disrupting Ukrainian forces were... "peacemaking"? If so - then you are a pitiful sheep.
Authorities... a guy proclaiming himself leader backed by foreign troops.... like hell he is authority. Unless ofc we are back to middle ages.
Like hell russian soldiers were "on borders", they were going and doing what they pleased/were commanded to do. And what the hell does it even mean "near ukrainian army posts"? Like - as if you would occupy a territory and would then decide to incapacitate local army units, so that even theoretical resistance is null and void?
Like hell there was no pressure. Ask Crimean tatars, if they were pressured, ok?
100 observers from "organizations" which would jump over its head to bite at EU/US at every opportunity possible. They do not even remotely "smell" of reliability, however strongly putler spouts otherwise.
Most population of suddetten were germans, thats why putlerTHAT OTHER GUY (how could I have made this mistake...omfg) did the same sham of a referendum-annex bullshit. You up for futher comparison?
And lets get back to Chechen story, separatists were handled with fucking artilerry and massive millitary campaign. Like hell this "we want independence so we take it" argument stands, even in putlers actions. So keep your bullshit in this area to yourself.

This whole BS in Ukraine was inflated by russian state controlled media and you are a blind sheep NOT to see that.

Again can't understand what do you want to say? I don't say that referendum is legit at all, Eltsin as for me was stupid president who could only drink vodka and hardly speak, maybe because of that USA liked him, because he sighned a lot of agreements. the war in Chechnya also was his fault and people in Russia blame him for that. Russia in 90s made a lot of mistakes and now too. Who doesn't? What do you want to say Kuujis, that opinion of nation in Crimea costs nothing, when Crimea was given to Ukraine nobody asked people if they want to join it, now they were asked. And what about tatars, I live in Tatarstan, if you now what is it) more then half of people here are tatars, my best friend tatar and I speak on tatar, I have crimean tatar friends. Yes I know that there was repression from USSR to crimean tatars, and now crimean tatars got reabilitation from Russia which they couldn't get from Ukraine for 24 years. Yes I know that some of Tatars are against Russia but there is small amount of them. Really can't understand where do you get your information and what exactly do you want to prove?

[Christo]

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/russia-belarus-and-kazakhstan-set-new-alliance

Look at this mega-alliance. 

I guess this could be why Russia isn't helping at all to ease tensions. Among many other reasons, of course.

USSR 2.0 in the making, za putinu!

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No seriously fuck that guy.

[Vovka]

Now we will have even more potato!

[Butan]

You needed a news to know they were allied, and its somehow influencing whats happening in Ukraine?


Thats like saying Ukraine joining EU is somehow related to a game of thrones behind the curtains.
Oh, I just said it, my bad.

[Christo]

You needed a news to know they were allied, and its somehow influencing whats happening in Ukraine?


Thats like saying Ukraine joining EU is somehow related to a game of thrones behind the curtains.
Oh, I just said it, my bad.

Headdesk.

[Christo]

4,500 Russian Fighters Have Crossed the Ukrainian Border

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The U.S.S.R. just fights us off
With their crazy words
For you know, you know the red stain hurts
Don't they know the next world war'll be the last one
The dying country on it's knees
Goes 'n drops the atom bomb
And that's the end of our world

What kind of country is Russia
People dying, truth doesn't lie
Communism's lost every meaning
'Cos capitalism's all in their mind."

[Kuujis]

Again can't understand what do you want to say?

I asked some questions, finally got some funny answers

Let me dissect.

I don't say that referendum is legit at all, Eltsin as for me was stupid president who could only drink vodka and hardly speak, maybe because of that USA liked him, because he sighned a lot of agreements. the war in Chechnya also was his fault and people in Russia blame him for that. Russia in 90s made a lot of mistakes and now too. Who doesn't?

So the referendum was NOT legit? So how do you base your "majority wanted to joing" oppinion based on that? You 20 something friends are the majority? Eltsin started the Chechen war,  but double check who has finished it and how... Its not about Eltsin, no need to distract oneself.
And as to mistakes... do you consider 1994 memorandum a mistake and 1997 aprobation of borders of Ukraine a mistake too? Maybe then even dissolution of USSR a mistake too? Such country. Real wow. Fucking not.

What do you want to say Kuujis, that opinion of nation in Crimea costs nothing, when Crimea was given to Ukraine nobody asked people if they want to join it, now they were asked. And what about tatars, I live in Tatarstan, if you now what is it) more then half of people here are tatars, my best friend tatar and I speak on tatar, I have crimean tatar friends. Yes I know that there was repression from USSR to crimean tatars, and now crimean tatars got reabilitation from Russia which they couldn't get from Ukraine for 24 years. Yes I know that some of Tatars are against Russia but there is small amount of them. Really can't understand where do you get your information and what exactly do you want to prove?

Well... this is funny bit of shit. "Nation" of crimea is "imported russians", which then were called a nation by russia media   GOOD FOR YOU!
The prohibition to mark the 70 years anniversary of the repressions agains Tatars by CCCP IS the most indicative action of ... how do you call it... "REABILITATION FROM RUSSIA". I felt brain dead at the end of this sentence.
Also - I am happy for your friends, but I won't take their word for a "representative" majority any time soon. I read of numerous actions to the contrary of what your brainwashed head is filled though... so tough luck. Fun fact - majority of displaced people during this whole conflict are from Crimea... OMFG - CAN'T BE, THERE WAS NO REPRESSION! http://www.unhcr.org/537b24536.html </irony>

Look at Scotland. This is how you organize and reach for your independence. Similar movement, without Crimea level problems IS happening in Belgium, Spain and afaik North of Italy. And there is no need for bloodshed, external forces coming to "makepeace" (as you have so aptly called it) or some similar shit. There ARE mechanisms to do it. Russia used whole range of wrong ones. And you can't even admit it.

And in the end is going to be "so we did a mistake, who cares, everybody does them, so we did ours on purpose, who cares, we have too much gas/oil to be ignored, also western world oppresses us QQ..." Well... a band of sheep called "mother russia".

Just to be clear about "what I want to say": russia with putler in the lead did a dick-move and occupied crimea in fashion reminiscent of the H guy  + created a whole bunch of bullshit in eastern Ukraine and the sadest part is you can't/won't admit it. Although - at the start there WAS a really strange event of a rally against this whole BS in Moscow... as I said before - pure respect. For the rest of the sheep - I hope you are being fed well enough.

P.S. I sincerely wish the same treatment that russia gave to ukraine but this time from China to Siberia... Then you can QQ and noone will hear you...

[Butan]

4,500 Russian Fighters Have Crossed the Ukrainian Border

Said Yaroslav Gonchar, deputy commander of the Azov battalion to the Ukraine Independent Information Agency (UNIAN) .

[Butan]

Poroshenko promises calm 'in hours' amid battle to control Donetsk airport

Most interesting bits to me:


Pro-RUS and RUS:

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The pro-Russia forces who have occupied government buildings in eastern Ukraine said they were ready to negotiate with Ukraine's new leadership, but only with Russian mediation and on equal terms.

Russia's foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said Moscow was ready to enter talks with the new leadership, in his country's first high-level response to Sunday's election. "We shouldn't miss the chance that we have now to establish an equal dialogue of mutual respect considering the vote that has taken place, the results of which Russia is ready to respect," Lavrov said.

Poroshenko:

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Poroshenko has not backed off from the harsh tone struck by Kiev regarding the armed rebels in the two regions, repeating on Monday that there could be no negotiations with terrorists and comparing the pro-Russia militia men to Somali pirates. "Their goal is to turn Donbass into a Somalia where they would rule with the power of machine guns. I will never allow that to happen on the territory of Ukraine," he said.

He suggested that he would move quickly and decisively against the rebels: "The anti-terrorist operation cannot and should not last two or three months. It should and will last hours."

Ukraine's president-elect, Petro Poroshenko, promised to end the armed insurgency in the east of the country in "hours", as Kiev's forces launched air strikes on separatists during an intense battle to regain control of Donetsk airport which left many injured.

The president-elect promised to return Crimea to Ukraine, though this is likely to be a fruitless pursuit given the wave of patriotism in Russia that accompanied the annexation of the Ukrainian peninsula.

Poroshenko called for negotiations with Moscow in the presence of international intermediaries. Lavrov said Russia was ready to work with the US and the EU on realising the roadmap drafted by the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe to defuse the crisis.

First important action of Poroshenko : most important battle since beginning of eastern Ukraine (Donetsk airport battle).
It seems like he is backing up his tough stance with action.
I found nothing on whats up in Donetsk since then.

[serr]

First, he won elections, but he is not president yet.

Second, please don't pull quotes out of context, changing meaning of them:

The pro-Russia forces who have occupied government buildings in eastern Ukraine said they were ready to negotiate with Ukraine's new leadership, but only with Russian mediation and on equal terms. The separatists have declared themselves de facto independent states and claim Kiev has no jurisdiction over them.

They were ready to negotiate only if Ukraine recognize them as independent states and withdraw army from their territories.

The president-elect promised to return Crimea to Ukraine, though this is likely to be a fruitless pursuit given the wave of patriotism in Russia that accompanied the annexation of the Ukrainian peninsula. A key point in any negotiations with Moscow will be the price at which Ukraine purchases Russian natural gas. Moscow has demanded Ukraine pay back billions of dollars it saved on a significantly reduced gas price under Yanukovych.

We had big discount on gas because of russian black see fleet bases on our territory. After annexing Crimea Russia demanded us to pay back what we saved on those discounts since 2010. That's another reason for not recognizing Crimea to be russian.

 

[Butan]

The full text is linked for those who want more context, I dont think it changes the meaning at all though, your bolded parts is just additional background information.
I thought I did a 100% perfect neutral job but there is always something wrong when you look for grudges 

[serr]

Nah, I don't.
In second case... probably you didn't change meaning, I just provided some more info on matter, which explains why Ukraine won't recognize Crimea as russian and will talk about its returning even if it is impossible.

But with first quote - you obviously did. "We are ready to negotiate" and "We are ready to negotiate, but only after you fulfill our demands and let us do whatever we want" are very different.

[Vovka]

We had big discount on gas because of russian black see fleet bases on our territory. After annexing Crimea Russia demanded us to pay back what we saved on those discounts since 2010. That's another reason for not recognizing Crimea to be russian.

 Не совсем так, долг начал накапливаться с апреля 2013. На момент аннексии крыма это был долг за два или три месяца по цене 300+, чтобы украине легче было его погасить цену опустили до 285 при условии что украина погасит весь долг (потом согласились на часть) , так как украина не погасила долг и по этой цене, то эти три месяца пересчитали по цене 485 без всех скидок + начали начислять последующие месяца по цене 485, вроде там по 1,2 млрд в месяц. Про 2010г. медведев просто сказал что недополученная прибыль рашки 10 млрд за счет всех скидок и пока ее не требовали и врядли у них это получится. Сейчас яценюк оплатил три месяца по цене 285 до аннексии крыма, и собрались судиться по оставшимся долгам после аннексии крыма.