Messages

1

Game Balance Discussion / Re: One thing to repair in archery

« on: September 15, 2014, 11:12:11 am »

looks like devs thinks like that:
"oh, someone notice a problem, but there'n not a vave of qq becqause of that, so why even bother that"
Quite sad

Or maybe it's because there are a million things to worry about before turning to archers being able to shoot from below 100 range. Really, how often is that a problem? Once every 1000 games?

2

General Discussion / Re: In your opinion: How physically damage is 0hp?

« on: September 05, 2014, 05:21:06 pm »

What a quality thread

3

General Discussion / Re: Trendsetters

« on: September 04, 2014, 03:33:33 pm »

My theory is that the popularity of the kuyak is partly because of the furry shoulder pads. Makes the character seem slightly more bulky. I'm sure if there was some of that ridiculous WoW style fantasy armor with shoulderpads twice the size of the head a bunch of people would use it.

The model looks good, but most importantly it is slightly better than other armors around its price/weight level if you care more about body armor than leg armor. The Light Kuyak in particular.

4

Game Balance Discussion / Re: Increase Great axe difficulty

« on: September 03, 2014, 07:58:28 pm »

Well, this is kind of a bad argument, because melee is then only thing that you can expect to do at a low level.  Archery is damn useless until you're level 25 or so and that's if you forego your ability to do anything else.  Once someone else approaches you, you won't have enough power strike, melee wpf and athletics to be effective.  Cavalry requirements just got boosted, and you won't be able to use a worthwhile horse and decent power strike until roughly that same level and then once dehorsed, you're a sitting duck for the same reasons.  An even more specialized class like horse archer?  Forget doing anything until 30.

Also the climb to 25 has recently been expedited.  So, in reality, I don't think the balance team has any ambitions to balance the grind at this point and are focusing more on the reality that is 30 and up.

By "low" levels I was thinking of 30-31. Hence the quotation marks. The sub-30 grind is another discussion entirely.

Say you want a 7 riding Lancer/1H build. Currently, at level 30-31 you can go 15/21 and use every lance and 1H in the game with that. If the difficulty of the best 1Hs or lances was increased to 16+, that build would have to sacrifice key skills or the 7 riding to use the best weapons. That's not a problem in an isolated case, it's fine that someone has to sacrifice something to wield the best weapons. You could balance the game around that, no problem.

The problem is this: A level 35-36 Lancer/1H could have 7 riding and up to 21 strength without sacrificing key skills. That character could have the best horse and the best weapon, while the 30-31 character could not.

If the game was balanced around 7 riding characters not being able to wield the best weapons, the high level build would be overpowered.
If the game was balanced around 7 riding characters being able to wield the best weapons, the low level build would be underpowered.

In other words, increasing the difficulty of the best weapons would reduce AGI stacking, but it would also make "low" level (~30) agi builds strictly worse relative to high level agi builds (on top of the inherent stat advantage).

TLDR; Balancing the game by increasing difficulty on items only makes sense if everyone is the same level.

5

Game Balance Discussion / Re: Increase Great axe difficulty

« on: September 03, 2014, 09:31:32 am »

Difficulty is a clumsy system that only makes sense if everyone is at the same level. If you make the best weapons high difficulty, you make agi builds weaker at "low" levels by raising the minimum strength threshhold. The focus should instead be on fixing the STR vs AGI scaling issues to make the stats equally attractive at all levels.

6

Game Balance Discussion / Re: High power draw builds, the truth (Poorly camouflaged QQ post)

« on: August 29, 2014, 02:15:08 pm »

It's probably easier to analyze this by just comparing the gains from +3STR/+1PD vs +3AGI/+1WM from a balanced starting point.

Base (18/18, 6PD 6WM)

(click to show/hide)

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STR (21/18, 7PD 6WM)

(click to show/hide)

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AGI (18/21, 6PD 7WM)

(click to show/hide)

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Here's the summary:
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By going Strength, you gain 12% damage and lose 11% WPF
By going Agi, you gain 4% damage and gain 13% WPF
So the Strength character has 8% more damage per arrow than the Agi character, but 21% less WPF

Archery is kind of weird though. More damage is always good, but at some point you have enough WPF to consistently hit typical shots on stationary targets, and then it really doesn't matter much above that. I honestly haven't played enough archer since coming back to tell where that WPF threshold after all the changes that have happened.

It does seem like Agi is clearly superior to Str until you hit that threshhold, though. Especially considering the benefits from agility (athletics, riding/HA, secondary weapon WPF) far outweigh the benefits from strength (HP, PS) for a typical archer.

EDIT: Fuck me, I forgot to set the calculator to pierce. No time to fix, but I'm sure the results aren't THAT different.

7

General Discussion / Re: An Interesting Perspective on Weapon Speed

« on: August 29, 2014, 09:45:50 am »

cRPG is pretty consistent with this. He is talking mainly about games where distance is not relevant (e.g. WoW), in which the fast weapon will hit first. That's a logical fallacy.

If I understand him correctly, he says that in real life, the longer heavier weapon would hit first due to the longer reach. If the combatants move away from each other after the attempted strike (like olympic fencing), that pattern will repeat. If the combatants move closer to each other, subsequent hits will be quicker with the lighter and more balanced weapon, due to inertia.

That's exactly how it works in cRPG.

8

General Discussion / Re: CRPG is indeed dying.

« on: August 28, 2014, 08:08:48 pm »

So you´re being punished for playing a game too long? Who would ever play such a shitty game? There isn´t that much of a difference between lvl 30 and lvl 33, spend some minutes on the duel server and his lvl33 butt is yours

Everybody would have to play on a stf build to gain money so they could play on a char which is only 2-4 levels higher...That would kill the whole mod in an instant.

Make a STF character, give it just enough gold to buy equipment (no looms), play it for a week with the same playstyle as your main. Compare its K/D stats to your main.

If it's not such a big deal, you should be able to perform pretty much the same.

Note: I'm not defending any particular solution, I don't know exactly how to "fix" it. I just want people to acknowledge the problem.

9

Suggestions Corner / Re: Training lessons for 1 loom point: Official petition

« on: August 28, 2014, 04:45:01 pm »

atleast have characters under lvl 30 a free respec, and above lvl 30 1 lp then, so newbies can change builds when they just start, and figured they fucked up

I would wholeheartedly support free respecs below level 30.

10

General Discussion / Re: CRPG is indeed dying.

« on: August 27, 2014, 07:31:03 pm »

It will never happen, but I really think leveling should be capped at 33. Perhaps the XP past level 33 goes towards LP's at a certain amount?

One of the main reasons to cap leveling should be to encourage retirement. LP grinding while staying at 33 would accomplish the opposite.

11

General Discussion / Re: CRPG is indeed dying.

« on: August 27, 2014, 05:21:58 pm »

Would help some, but most high level players are using pierce weapons and/or very high cut weapons, so armor doesn't play as big of a role any more. I have 61 body armor/58 head, and I still get 1-2 shot by every +3 Bec I encounter.

It matters a lot to newbies. A level 30 unloomed player in 2011 was still 1-3 shot frequently, but 50+ armor targets were uncommon, and only a handful of players could afford to run 60-70+ armor builds 24/7. People would frequently skimp on armor, while running top tier weapons. That newbie could get plenty of kills going after low armor targets.

There's a reason pierce is so much more prevalent today. Armor levels have skyrocketed thanks to everyone having +10 armor from looms and generally more expensive armor due to gold surplus.

12

General Discussion / Re: CRPG is indeed dying.

« on: August 27, 2014, 03:53:50 pm »

I am only typing on my phone, but tinyurl.com/crpgcalc has better numbers. Head hits deal 1.2x damage. Damage should be around 10-15. Most damage in the game comes from holds and speed bonus. My 10 athletics character was able to go from 57 raw to 78. My 0 athletics character from 57 raw to 74. Overheads deal an extra 10% raw and holds around an extra 25% raw.

There are far more high levels and looms, but leveling is almost 4x faster with no upkeep until 25. It's still bad and should be better, I agree.

Thanks!

And yes, the 1-25 grind is much improved.

That doesn't change the fact that to get to level 30 with 3 +3 looms requires 500+ hours of grinding, and even then you're still numerically underpowered compared to the majority of the server.

Back in 2011 you would be on par with or more powerful than 50% of the server simply by being 30, since nearly everyone reset at 31. Getting to 30 took longer then, but nowhere NEAR what it takes to reach parity with 50% of the server nowadays.

edit: Clarified that I was responding to San.

13

General Discussion / Re: CRPG is indeed dying.

« on: August 27, 2014, 03:07:48 pm »

I'm not surprised. Would you mind providing the correct ballpark numbers?

My main point is not in the exact numbers, though. The main point is that there are practically no sub-30 unloomed people on the server anymore, which makes the grind far harder to stomach than back in the day.

To be clear, it's not a personal whine. I have looms from back in the day and from friends. I'm fine. New friends I try to bring to the mod are not.

14

General Discussion / Re: CRPG is indeed dying.

« on: August 27, 2014, 02:58:42 pm »

Allow me to contribute my perspective:

I've just returned to cRPG after 3 years away. I must admit there is a massive difference in the power level of players on the servers.

The skill level has increased somewhat on average, but the best players are roughly the same. Either way, being outskilled is motivating, it makes you strive to get better. Most serious gamers won't mind that.

The biggest problem is how most of the players on the server are level 33+ with full looms. It was never like that back in the day. I think Kesh was 34 back then and people wondered how the hell that was possible. The vast majority of players back then didn't have multiple +3 looms, and everyone retired at 31 unless it was Strategus season. This meant there was a decent number of sub-30s on the server, and the 31+ multiloomed people were the exception rather than the rule. Did people get slaughtered when they ran into them? Yep. But for every encounter with such a powerhouse, there were 3 encounters with someone a level 25 newbie could reasonably expect to beat.

Nowadays, nearly every player you face is like that. How big is the difference, though? Well, I did some quick comparisons using Urugash's calculator over at http://alpha-lider19.ru/MB/ . It pits a "newbie" level 30 18/18 1h shielder with no looms, using a 35c battle axe and wearing a 45 armor set, versus a "veteran" level 33 21/18 1h shielder with full looms, using a 38c battle axe and wearing a 55 armor set. The Newbie has spent around 18-20 hours grinding to get to that level, which is already a significant investment.

Specs:

(click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

Level:           30

Strength:        18
Agility:         18

Skill to attr:    2

Ironflash:        5
Power Strike:     6
Shield:           6
Athletics:        6
Weapon Master:    6

One Handed:     154
^{using cRPG NewGen calc}

vs.

Code: [Select]

Level:           33
[/spoiler]


Strength:        21
Agility:         18

Skill to attr:    2

Ironflash:        7
Power Strike:     7
Shield:           6
Athletics:        6
Weapon Master:    6

One Handed:     158
^{using cRPG NewGen calc}

This is the result, assuming the calculator is correct:
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Even if the newbie can outskill/outluck the veteran, it takes 4-11 body shots to get the kill. The veteran needs 2-4 hits to kill the newbie. That's obviously an insane difference. It gets less severe if both players use steel picks (3-6 hits for the newbie vs 2-3 hits for the veteran), but note that the newbie still needs more hits to kill with the pick than the veteran needs using an axe. And this is with high damage axes and light/medium armor! Lets not even get into how insanely lopsided it gets with lower damage swords or if the veteran is wearing full plate (which, as we know, is not an option for a newbie)...

When every fight is like this, even after grinding for 20 hours just to get to level 30, the game becomes nearly impenetrable to new players. Skill difference is fine. Having to land more than twice as many hits to win a duel, on TOP of that skill difference, is not. It needs fixing if the mod wants new players.

15

Diplomacy / Re: Grey Order Claims

« on: October 13, 2011, 01:20:22 pm »

Ok, no worries. Xant is here to help!

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,17983.0.html

Just click that and you can read it again! Amazing, isn't it?

Best part? You can keep doing this over and over. Everytime you reach this post, you simply need to click on that again and your reading enjoyment can begin anew.

It's like Groundhog Day, only awesome!