Maybe add some form of skill based mechanic yo the crsfting systems so that way there is actually a reward for expending time into it?There's many details I skipped, eg a blacksmith's output will depend on his skills, his production building, his blueprints and his raw materials.
Will it be possible to build my utopia city ran by free market and no politicians whatsoever?Can you give me a reallife example of an utopia city that is anarchistic? Gameplay wise the answer is partially (no taxes), but how would people get land without stealing it? How would rules be enforced? and who would control an army in case of an attack?
it's all good and nice but im only curious how many players will be able to be on one server/map or /we you want to call it. Simply this idea without lot of ppl is usless to TBHAn absolutely valid point, and something that has been subject of discussions and development from day 1. I will elaborate on that on another point, but yes, it's possible, with limitations (server borders, my biggest beef with the entire concept, but a necessary evil)
(click to show/hide)
I'm not promising that we are "LIF plus xyz", we have nearly no overlapping elements with LIF, because they don't interest me that much. If you want a survival game, there are other games out there that do it way more fleshed out than OKAM ever will or should.
There's many details I skipped, eg a blacksmith's output will depend on his skills, his production building, his blueprints and his raw materials.
I have a very exact vision of what the game will have and what not, which I haven't communicated clearly yet. I will work on communicating those until EA because I think they are extremely interesting and possibly revolutionary.
So it won't be a setup like rust or LiF where individual servers are set up with 30-64 people?No, there will be a complete separation between EU and NA for example, but apart from that it's one big world (split into multiple servers)
...I assume you intentionally ignored all the the differences (and the entire summary) for your argument? Yes, both feature medieval themes. By your logic you could say that EVE, or destiny, or settlers, or age of empires, is actually just like LIF. OKAM will have wars with hundreds of players, going on for extended periods of time, with political struggles inside and outside. That's the main gameplay.
Silver is the currency? Where does it come from? Do players build mints?Cities (not players) produce silver coins. It is meant to balance inflation and deflation and as a way to control your cities production. By setting up buy orders with money inside your city, you can shift the focus of your economy towards whatever is needed. If there are eg multiple families producing iron in your city, it might be in your interest to constantly buy iron, despite you not needing it directly, to make sure that the market is flourishing and people don't leave somewhere else - subsidies, basically. The ratio of silver production vs goods production will likely be roughly the same in all cities, if Adam Smith is to be trusted. If you tilt too much one way or the other it will decrease your cities overall wealth.
I assume you intentionally ignored all the the differences (and the entire summary) for your argument? Yes, both feature medieval themes. By your logic you could say that EVE, or destiny, or settlers, or age of empires, is actually just like LIF. OKAM will have wars with hundreds of players, going on for extended periods of time, with political struggles inside and outside. That's the main gameplay.
Will there be more on the higher levels of 'hierarchy', such as an Empire level and actual Kings (your name does kinda imply that)? So far you talked about city ruling, managing and dividing it into districts with their own lords. What about the grand scale of it?
Will there be religion?
Why would I play this shit when Mount and Blade 2 is coming out and it will be a lot better? Hell naw.
Cities are where they are protected, where nothing bad happens to them, where they can practice whatever playstyle they want without having to look over the shoulder every second, worrying about a bandit attack or a murderer hidden under their bed.
Armies work similarly to taxes - you draft from your population, taking away lifetime from your population. Your people will understand to some extent, but if you just abuse them as cannon fodder, possibly even without pay, they will at some point become unhappy.About that point: will the armies consist of the actual players, meaning you the tradesman who happens to live there are supposed to take up a sword? Or is it your NPC relative who you'd otherwise assign for other tasks?
About Kings. As I understood from what chadz wrote is that once a city was found and developed the ruling dynasty (aka clan) can claim a King and a Kingdom of nearby territory. From some settlement to a city without coat of arms to a normal medieval city-state.
Kings:
Eh, Vibe already asked my question about there being actual feudal kings.
So, just my comment towards that: I would like there to be a royal institution that people fight over just because it's the middle ages and that's what the big houses often enough fought about. Otherwise it could as well be set in some anarchic past of tribes settling in some area and occasionally fighting each other.
The position of a king wouldn't necessarily need to have actual power over all the subjects as it didn't irl. He could be someone who steps in and declare one of the warring factions an enemy of the realm so every other faction would act in accordance to the king's justice when they'd attack them.
And great about religion. Put this brainwashing to DLC :D
About Kings. As I understood from what chadz wrote is that once a city was found and developed the ruling dynasty (aka clan) can claim a King and a Kingdom of nearby territory. From some settlement to a city without coat of arms to a normal medieval city-state.
Cities (not players) produce silver coins. It is meant to balance inflation and deflation and as a way to control your cities production. By setting up buy orders with money inside your city, you can shift the focus of your economy towards whatever is needed. If there are eg multiple families producing iron in your city, it might be in your interest to constantly buy iron, despite you not needing it directly, to make sure that the market is flourishing and people don't leave somewhere else - subsidies, basically. The ratio of silver production vs goods production will likely be roughly the same in all cities, if Adam Smith is to be trusted. If you tilt too much one way or the other it will decrease your cities overall wealth.So you're saying that a collection of buildings at some arbitrary point counts as a city, that conjures up silver? Does that also mean that there will only be barter economy, until some initial cities are built to create silver?
I don't think that will be an issue, I fully intend to run around calling myself a king from day1 as a shitty explorer with no decent gear or followers.
Will oKaM be flooded with 100s of Druzhina slavers from day 1?
Roles:
You mention certain roles. Are those actual classes you have to choose from or can you be a fighter and explorer at the same time?
Economy:
Won't monopolies be a problem?
Cities:
what exactly is stopping you from murdering anyone [in a city]?
Armies:About that point: will the armies consist of the actual players, meaning you the tradesman who happens to live there are supposed to take up a sword? Or is it your NPC relative who you'd otherwise assign for other tasks?
Can you compare your planned graphics level to some game? for example similar to Kingdom Come or Bannerlord or Doom 1 etcIf you look at the teaser ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0leHWWLU2-k ) - that's more or less where it will be. I don't think it's overly gray -maybe it's the fog. Maybe some color grading differences.
PS: will there be slavery? can u capture someones peasants when u take a city?That's something we discussed, I believe it was Thomek who initally wanted to turn it into a full blown slavery simulator. Initially: no, but we're considering it. The idea of permanently capturing a character that has to be freed is very interesting. But for now we're trying to get the basics down.
So you're saying that a collection of buildings at some arbitrary point counts as a city, that conjures up silver? Does that also mean that there will only be barter economy, until some initial cities are built to create silver?People will be given money from the very beginning, that will have to do for the inital buying and selling. It will not take overly long for people to print their own money, though. Barter economy is difficult for new players to get into, and making it easy for new players was one of the main ideas with the design.
Typically, how would one 'overthrow' or "stop a rival production in the neighbouring city"?
Will be or how will be Graphics of game improoved?because actually it looks very grey and boring(I know that it is alpha)Tbh I'm not really sure what you're talking about, I think the graphics look great right now (I played it). There are some features that could be added but they are more on an optional side.
Can you compare your planned graphics level to some game? for example similar to Kingdom Come or Bannerlord or Doom 1 etc
Oh, another thought. More about the missions, Players should be able to make deals with other players to do certain things, like sabotaging, assaulting a certain character, stealing blueprints, etc. Other more peaceful ones as well - like trade missions, construction task maybe, possibilities are limitless.
Do you need that to be coded into the game? Sounds like something players can very well agree upon by themselves.It doesn't need to be coded as missions themselves, but would be nice to have some kind of a deal system - where you can have a "document" agreed by both players that can be viewed publically if needed. That way cities/countries can enforce rules, and in general it would be quite a nice RP element.
It doesn't need to be coded as missions themselves, but would be nice to have some kind of a deal system - where you can have a "document" agreed by both players that can be viewed publically if needed. That way cities/countries can enforce rules, and in general it would be quite a nice RP element.
Being able to grant control of my family members to other players.Pretty nice feature. But should be possible only for one dynasty. If you have some very close relationships, family bonds. And this brings the questions about marriages and heritage. Some strict rules about it by the local lord (thinking about CK2).
Can you tell us the minimum requirements already?
Thats tbh my biggest fear :lol:
Will I be forced to play under 1 of these 4 categories?As for the roles, maybe to clarify: I'm not even sure you will see those names ever inside the game (except maybe in an intro/tutorial). It's more from a game developers point of view than from a gamers point of view (I figured I put it here to make it easier to understand, it may have been misunderstood). It's terms I came up with while thinking about how the world will play out and how players can roughly be categorised. Which of those roles you are is defined by your actions, not by a menu.
No details yet, but if you have to ask, you probably should upgrade :wink: but seriously, we're trying to keep it compatible as far downwards as possible, but it will require somewhat modern specs.
As for the roles, maybe to clarify: I'm not even sure you will see those names ever inside the game (except maybe in an intro/tutorial). It's more from a game developers point of view than from a gamers point of view (I figured I put it here to make it easier to understand, it may have been misunderstood). It's terms I came up with while thinking about how the world will play out and how players can roughly be categorised. Which of those roles you are is defined by your actions, not by a menu.
Or a perk, that lets you throw yourself onto the ground and roll for a few seconds, instead of doing a nudge.
As for the roles, maybe to clarify: I'm not even sure you will see those names ever inside the game (except maybe in an intro/tutorial). It's more from a game developers point of view than from a gamers point of view (I figured I put it here to make it easier to understand, it may have been misunderstood). It's terms I came up with while thinking about how the world will play out and how players can roughly be categorised. Which of those roles you are is defined by your actions, not by a menu.
He's the kind of cunt the game deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero.
Admit it, you fucking like The Panos, don't you? :lol:
Is owning/running a pub a possible occupation? I wanna totally run the dirtiest, filthiest and funniest pub in all the Kingdoms!
I might actually call it 'Burg Krems'.
With competitive beer mug fighting and betting.
Sounds like a plan to me...
...people from far and near shall come to my tavern, enjoying a spit-in ale, watered down wine and the occasional brawl!
Far away I shall stay then.If you ever want any of the aforementioned drinks, you're still welcome tho.
Sounds awesome and shit, but the name would drive me to find some glitch to leave the map to run away even further. And if it is the last thing I will do.
The explorer lifestyle will be the one of the most dangerous ones, you can expect a lot of rivalry out in the open. Someone might get hurt, even. When you find someone out in the open, you can expect him to be there for the same reason you are - he is a treasure hunter. And he might have treasures on him. Or he might suspect you to have the same. I think you get where this is going.
https://chroniclesofelyria.com/
I also follow this game which is pretty similar to what is being talked here and they found some good solutions to afks, dcs and offline players. They also have a contract/agreement system.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
https://chroniclesofelyria.com/
I also follow this game which is pretty similar to what is being talked here and they found some good solutions to afks, dcs and offline players. They also have a contract/agreement system.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
He's the kind of cunt the game deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero.
A simple parchment system with player/family signatures would be awesome to have. You could write anything on it, but only your family could use your family signature, obviously. So you could have any kind of deal written plain on paper, get signatures from both (or multiple) parties and could consequently use it for justifying more violent actions.. great for RP as well, yeah.
That's something we discussed, I believe it was Thomek who initally wanted to turn it into a full blown slavery simulator. Initially: no, but we're considering it. The idea of permanently capturing a character that has to be freed is very interesting. But for now we're trying to get the basics down.
I thought of slavery as of resource, don't need to capture players and make them do things for u. I was thinking of capturing their families, so they used as slaves and die with time, but owner can put them to work and make profit. They could be like NPCs that could do basic things. While those who lost their families, can make themselves new one.
Obviously :D don't need this if u don't have time, i would rather get game sooner with less features. Just curious if it was in already.
I thought of slavery as of resource, don't need to capture players and make them do things for u. I was thinking of capturing their families, so they used as slaves and die with time, but owner can put them to work and make profit. They could be like NPCs that could do basic things. While those who lost their families, can make themselves new one.
Edit3: chadz, make alcohol a gameplay element and create wobbly-controls for intoxication!
Actually... i will lobby for that.
Sneaking into enemy camps, secretly replacing their water supplies with some cheap gin, causing them to get shitfaced and then plow them the next day when u meet on the battlefield.
Sounds like good gameplay to me!
That's what I meant - players and their family are the same thing. But if you could enslave an enemy character, it has to come with the loss of that character for that player (and not replacable). Otherwise you could create huge fake-slave armies by enslaving your friends. An option for that could be that you can either free him for as long as he is captured, or kill him after a cooldown period. Anyway, that's future stuff, and won't be on the drafting table for some time. Once we have the core game down, we can think in what way we want to expand it.ransom or chance of escape increased with each passing day
ransom or chance of escape increased with each passing day
Should be able to set the ransom yourself if you captured someone.
Actually... i will lobby for that.Not the purpose which I had in mind (I want it for beer mug competitive fighting) but if it gets it into the game: hell yes!
Sneaking into enemy camps, secretly replacing their water supplies with some cheap gin, causing them to get shitfaced and then plow them the next day when u meet on the battlefield.
Sounds like good gameplay to me!
Ransoms should have a set value based on assets otherwise trolls will put someone up for 10 million. Actually, will there be a capture system? You knock someone out and carry them away over your shoulder or tied to your saddle?
Actually... i will lobby for that.
Sneaking into enemy camps, secretly replacing their water supplies with some cheap gin, causing them to get shitfaced and then plow them the next day when u meet on the battlefield.
Sounds like good gameplay to me!
That's what I meant - players and their family are the same thing. But if you could enslave an enemy character, it has to come with the loss of that character for that player (and not replacable). Otherwise you could create huge fake-slave armies by enslaving your friends. An option for that could be that you can either free him for as long as he is captured, or kill him after a cooldown period. Anyway, that's future stuff, and won't be on the drafting table for some time. Once we have the core game down, we can think in what way we want to expand it.
Another thing I gonna need for my tavern business which makes it a thing you need to implement:
We need the possibility to attach wooden signs to the building front and/or place one in front of the house!
How else are people (potential customers) supposed to know what kind of enterprise is housed inside?
Sign maker could be a profession in the game :wink:
Another thing I gonna need for my tavern business which makes it a thing you need to implement:
We need the possibility to attach wooden signs to the building front and/or place one in front of the house!
How else are people (potential customers) supposed to know what kind of enterprise is housed inside?
Sign maker could be a profession in the game :wink:
I'll only ever enter your tavern if you have these signs on it:
"No Poles & Russians allowed"
"We don't serve drinks to archers"
"First drink & hooker are on the house.....so are the last"
"No spitting on the floor unless a dedicated archer is lying on it"
those who live in the city will know where everything is, u think that random outsider got a chance to get close to ur city without being robed and raped? I'm sure that one of the citizens will find it a good idea to kill him for his stuff and even if he has nothing of value - then just for his dirty shirt. :DI think you'll need to let strangers enter your cities, and protect the roads to the cities. Trade will be very important for your economy... Oh wait, you are UIF. Then yeah, you'll own all the cities and resources, so you can kill any new player who shows up.. Thank the gods I play NA.
That's what happens anyway when the "ticket" of that Family Member is used up in battle, no?
I'll only ever enter your tavern if you have these signs on it:
"No Poles & Russians allowed"
"We don't serve drinks to archers"
"First drink & hooker are on the house.....so are the last"
"No spitting on the floor unless a dedicated archer is lying on it"
Krems tavern
[...]so rude
Above gibberish aside, will I be able to put Krems tavern on fire in middle of the night, by tomorrow be recognized by all men and their kings as greatest mass murderer in the Land (server stitched) and be hunted by the likes of Oberyn till the end of time?
No combustible props means less fun, make it happen Asinus crowd!
Krems tavern have no rule. Inside it will be free for all, so you can kill an archer with your beer mug. Cheers !
No Poles or Russians? There goes 90% of your income.
I think you'll need to let strangers enter your cities, and protect the roads to the cities. Trade will be very important for your economy... Oh wait, you are UIF. Then yeah, you'll own all the cities and resources, so you can kill any new player who shows up.. Thank the gods I play NA.
In NA we are too stubborn to all work together. No mega factions here. We'll have to make what we can, take what we can, but probably trade for most of it. Forced diplomacy no matter how much you hate your trade partners.
Makes the game more interesting actually.
So will we be getting any new vid dev blog vids soon?
In NA we are too stubborn to all work together.
bullshit m8You could have... and sort of did with Gobblins. But then you got bored of that and split up. Admit it, it's no fun if it's too easy.
Just months ago I could have kept a faction of 80 fucking players at my hands in this toxic, mercurial, near-dead (at the time, now is fully dead) game if I so desired--and I'm an incompetent insulting meme jackass.
I see no reason someone couldn't do the same or much better in this new game. It just takes some skill and a social-life-extinguishing commitment of time.
Just keep your dirty feet off my mom's furniture.
But I just mean official names unless it just goes by word of mouth and people call it whatever. I would think the starting groups of a city would want to name it something before some random guy walks by and calls it dicktown. "Yeah I live in dicktown. YEAH I KNOW but it has great rates."
That's what signs andflagsbanners are for I guess...
I also look forward to dick emblems and hello kitty flags and so forth. I expect nothing less.
Sorry if me or someone else asked this before and I didn't read it, but is there going to be some type of medic class/skill?
Who cares... it makes for good gameplay
No it doesn't. You make it a vital part of gameplay and then your team gets shit medics and you're screwd.
health regen class
I like being a doctor in persistent world mod. You feel so popular all of a sudden :DI like being a girl in real world. You feel so popular all of a sudden :D
Sorry if me or someone else asked this before and I didn't read it, but is there going to be some type of medic class/skill?visitors can't see pics , please register or login
True.
I would be cool if there was medical skills that would benefit an army after a battle.
Such as limiting casualties by saving wounded/otherwise dead men.
They should have doctors, but true medieval ones. So if you get wounded and there is no doctor, you have a 50% chance of survival. But if a doctor treats you, you then have a 10% chance of survival.
That would be similar to the surgeon/healer skills/first aid skills in Warband single player. But I just realized I have no idea how armies will work in this game. Will you be followed by mindless bots that their owners will 'possess' right before the battle, or will you open a bag and the rank and file pour out.
That would be similar to the surgeon/healer skills/first aid skills in Warband single player. But I just realized I have no idea how armies will work in this game. Will you be followed by mindless bots that their owners will 'possess' right before the battle, or will you open a bag and the rank and file pour out.
Damn, now my decision to become a drunk hobo has become obsolete. Now I want to be an actual warrior with weapons and shit so I can travel to the tavern, chuck a pint or two, and then kill all those Krems bastards and go home to live happily ever after.Already attempted, few times i believe. Those who tried to kill us got rekt pretty hard and GTX'ed. It won't turn out well for ya, let us live our lives as pacifists :D
My tavern will be my tavern and not a Krems tavern... :cry:
An absolutely valid point, and something that has been subject of discussions and development from day 1. I will elaborate on that on another point, but yes, it's possible, with limitations (server borders, my biggest beef with the entire concept, but a necessary evil)So it would be like an MMORPG conept where the entire map and everyone in it is loaded as you move through the world? Though still being able to contact everyone who is on the server but not loaded in your area?
What is preventing people from destroying your town at 3 am?
Maybe Australians/Chinese? :PChinese warriors with good connection might be a thing, like some sort of elite night guardians.
You're Nazi?
You're Nazi?
quote a post of someone who wrote some hitler shit to get lerned.
Yes im a N.azi who lives in New Zealand... Heil H.itler
PS how do i get around the censorship?
You have to be one, then it does not censor it.Nazi...
You have to be one, then it does not censor it.
Yes im a N.azi who lives in New Zealand... Heil H.itler
PS how do i get around the censorship?
Bring some rope guys, we spotted one.
Here is a perfect exemple of how a Topic can turn all godwin when devs do not answers any fcking question.
SO their plan is to answer questions exclusivly in a forum only visible for people who, they know, are already buying the game whatever happens ?
Not sure this is the perfect strategy, only my opinion...
SO their plan is to answer questions exclusivly in a forum only visible for people who, they know, are already buying the game whatever happens ?
Not sure this is the perfect strategy, only my opinion...
Yeah mate, you're asking about Epic, but that's far in the future, the task the devs have at hand right now is polishing combat, everything else should come second. But I bet that, if you get an avatar someone will answer you sooner or later. It's all about making your question prominent, do some funky colours. Or put a spoiler in your post, that's bound to attract attention.
Isn't the name of the topic : "Epic", and aren't we talking about it in a theoretical way ?
well then just don't talk about it all along, what's the point ?!
I am just trying to understand what they want to do. I remember the very first thread about the subject, when they decided to turn the game into a massive experience. It was way more documented and this in comparison is just a blank page. Merely trying to put back pieces of the puzzle here. They don't want to make promises ? well don't ! It's not like they are Blizzard !
What is there to answer then if you have all the answers in the other thread?Things evolve during a full year ?
Things evolve during a full year ?
SO their plan is to answer questions exclusivly in a forum only visible for people who, they know, are already buying the game whatever happens ?I dont know man, chadz seems quite talkative lately ...
Not sure this is the perfect strategy, only my opinion...
I mean i see these half trollish replies about destroying your shit at 3 am but thats legit going to happen. Like 100%, just look at strat or any other game with a persistent base.
And please dont say NPCs because we all know they are dumb as bricks and will be roflstomped by actuall people
Village attacks could work like Strat Battles:
They are announced a certain amount of time beforehand with full features enabled.
Unannounced attacks are possible but are limited in the amount of damage done to infrastructure and killing blows to defenders are deactivated, people only get unconscious.
Attackers can't be killed either but end up in town prison.
Announced attack is higher risk for a higher possible reward.
Unannounced attack is way lower risk for a way lower reward.
A system like this still allows surprising raids on infrastructure for lulz, minimizes griefing, frustration and whine to a minimum.
No, bots will not play a major role in the game (if at all, combatwise), exactly for the reasons stated by Bryggan, but also for design reasons - we want to have a game that relies heavily on players, bots should play only the role of helpers.
Nebun just wants to ruin the game for everybody. I say we should have a russian-only server.
Thanks for the reply chadz, one question stays open still. What are your family members doing when you are not controlling them ? just wonderin
To switch characters within your family, I think you should have to park the guy you are on in a safe place- your house, a garrison or an inn. An explorer could have a tent, but would be vulnerable- all part of the dangers.
I take it that you guys, haven't decided on a timeframe for a round of the Epic, yet?
I would personally like 2 kinds of servers.
One server that plays a round in one week, with specific time-frames, when you can join and play on it. More war-like. Permadeath would be common and only way you could survive a battle, where you have fallen is if the enemies take you prisoner or someone gets your unconcious body back to a town, where a doctor will treat you. The map would be smaller and player counts high, because of the limited time-frame, when you can play on the server - say 2 blocks of a 4 hour period. It would be more focused on conquering the map, rather than being economically superior. Towns and people could be attacked freely. Since the map is smaller and there is a definitive primetime, I don't see the need for NPCs or atleast not as many of them.
The other kind of server I would like to see, contrasting the previus one, is a slow-paced persistent world. Going on for months, maybe a year. More focused on capturing resources and economy, rather than conquering the map by force. You could join and leave the server as you liked. Permadeath wouldn't be such a big issue. Firstly, because the round takes so long, you can easily make new characters and have enough time to climb to your former glory. Secondly, because of some kind of organic mechanic, like law-enforcement or because you would rarely fight with the head of your family in battles. Logging off is not an issue, since attacking a settlement, where you would hopefuly make your home, would be limited. Attackers would have different options, when they attack a town.
1.They can attack immedietly. But only destroy the periphery and the battlements and other barriers, that are not within the center of the city itself.
Next, they can schelude, with the local lord(or owner of the town or whatever) a time, when the siege will take place(or they can do this right off the bat, before destroying the walls etc.)
First, they decide on the time of the siege. This is pretty straigth forward. Both have 6 tries to settle on the time, within an 18 hour period(or any other number, really). If, they don't agree on a specific time a compromise is made, based on the times that were given during the negotiation. After that, based on the number of players in the city, the attackers that made it to the outskirts of the city, before the start of the siege and the different times given during the negotiation - a time limit for the siege is set. If, the attackers capture the city within that time limit, they win. If, the defenders successfuly defend the town for the time given, the attackers have to withdraw and schelude another attack. Anyone in the city, after the timer expired (i.e. defenders if attackers win/attackers if defenders win) takes a place in a mini-game, where they either have to escape the city or be captured by the opposing army. Think of it as a grand chase of sorts. If, the gate is intact and there are no holes in the walls and no ladders or any other means of escape, the pursuers can capture all the people inside, just by closing it.
2. The attackers can demand something. A time when these conditions need to be met is scheluded between the commanders. If, the conditions are not met the siege proccess outlined above takes place. If, they are met, but the attackers still decide to attack the town, the siege proccess above still takes place, but they get a penalty in the time-scheluding part.
During the time between the negotiations and the actual attack, given that the attackers destroyed the periphery and are camped infront of all exits, everyone who wants to exit or access the city, has to pass through the camp, where they may get mugged, taken prisoner or even murdered. Obviously, the defenders or their allies can plan a pass through the camp in disguise and assassinate the commander, assuming he's logged in.
End of suggestion.
Don't like that. If its like a start battle then yes u should be able to wipe out village or castle or take it for urself.
But if u just roam around the map and killing ppl u should be able to kill anyone u want but for that for example become a bandit and if someone kills u, then he doesn't become bandit himself. But if its not a proper battle u shouldn't have ability to use siege equipment for example so u can't destroy any buildings, but should be able to kill and loot bodies and whatever is in the open.
This will force some people to build walls and some people to make proper sieges. But there should always be mortal danger outside the cities and it will create more drama. Because if u will wipe out someones lumber mill, for that maybe they will wipe out ur resource points.
Or if neither side can win a war, both of them can make raids on caravans or resource points to weaken the opponent.
This has to be lethal and brutal or it will lack a lot of strategic moments.
Therefore I would like to see a system implemented where every player can choose to display or hide his/her name tag while running around in the persistent world. Because knowing who murdered/robbed you and then hunting this guy with your clan mates is a thing I don't want to experience in OKAM...
HALTThat's a nice head you have on your shoooooooulders
SHOW PURSE
I would like to agree on that... Even though I never played it, to my mind EVE is the MMOish game with the most complex and most interesting player-driven story I know. And this is because almost everything you do there can have tremendous consequences for you or other players.And how exactly are authorities supposed to find and punish criminals then?
Therefore I would like to see a system implemented where every player can choose to display or hide his/her name tag while running around in the persistent world. Because knowing who murdered/robbed you and then hunting this guy with your clan mates is a thing I don't want to experience in OKAM...
Furthermore, as I have understood it so far, "creating" a character that has decent fighting skills within your "family" should not be much of a problem. Thus, I don't see an issue with permadeath being experienced quite often within the gameplay mechanics.
And how exactly are authorities supposed to find and punish criminals then?Therefore I would like to see a system implemented where every player can choose to display or hide his/her name tag while running around in the persistent world. Because knowing who murdered/robbed you and then hunting this guy with your clan mates is a thing I don't want to experience in OKAM...
Maybe like a social menu with a button tagged 'Introduce yourself' or 'Give name' so it's more immersive?
Furthermore, as I have understood it so far, "creating" a character that has decent fighting skills within your "family" should not be much of a problem. Thus, I don't see an issue with permadeath being experienced quite often within the gameplay mechanics.
And how exactly are authorities supposed to find and punish criminals then?Typical German.
And how exactly are authorities supposed to find and punish criminals then?
And how exactly are authorities supposed to find and punish criminals then?"I don't understand, sir. I never killed anyone. I think you've got the wrong man."
Do you people actually believe that it would work? :lol:
And how exactly are authorities supposed to find and punish criminals then?
Go by descriptions, like irl
Do you people actually believe that it would work? :lol:
No need for a police state imho. Never liked the fact how outlaws were treated on most PW servers... Being forced to stop a victim and talk to him/her because "kill on sight" was not allowed was so ridiculous. :lol:
Yeah but who wants to play the gate guard, taking people's weapons?
That's actually quite common in PW. Organized clans would have players on guard duty. I've been doing that myself on several occasions... surely not all the time, but when there's a war going on you would want your castle and people to be safe.
I suppose we'll find out how as they develop epic more but its always fun to speculate. The easiest way I can think of is to have people set some, or all if they wish I guess, of their family npcs as guards that can take and store weapons. You can make it so players can too if they want but I don't foresee many people lining up for that. We can set npcs to farm and craft afaik so I don't see this being an issue.
My impression so far is that you will be able to set some sort of rules applying to the land you "own" and build your city on (this area should expand with every building you construct in close proximity to another building already existing, imo).
With "rules" I mean things like...
... you can only "enter" the city unarmed, leading to your weapons being automatically taken from you by the server when you walk through the gates.
... the "tax" rate they mentioned concerning the amount of labor force every crafting citizen has to give to the local ruler (which is also automatically subtracted from the amount you produce or the trades you do).
... who can construct buildings in separate sections of your city.
... how many of your family members (assuming your whole family lives in this place) can be used as soldiers during times of war.
... which kind of goods you are allowed to produce within the city borders.
... and so on
No one is needed to enforce these rules within a city because they are set by the ruler and restrict or allow certain gameplay mechanics while you are in the town or city. On top of that, if your local ruler is only a small lord belonging to a bigger kingdom, the king or marshal might also set some rules applying to his whole kingdom / area of influence (at least to all cities or villages belonging to his dominion).
This is the kind of "metagame" associated with being an empowered person in OKAM... That's how I understood it so far.
This is necessary due to the fact that Taser is right, there will definitely not be enough people willing to do the boring RP tasks needed to carry all this out with players only.
My impression so far is that you will be able to set some sort of rules applying to the land you "own" and build your city on (this area should expand with every building you construct in close proximity to another building already existing, imo).
With "rules" I mean things like...
... you can only "enter" the city unarmed, leading to your weapons being automatically taken from you by the server when you walk through the gates.
... the "tax" rate they mentioned concerning the amount of labor force every crafting citizen has to give to the local ruler (which is also automatically subtracted from the amount you produce or the trades you do).
... who can construct buildings in separate sections of your city.
... how many of your family members (assuming your whole family lives in this place) can be used as soldiers during times of war.
... which kind of goods you are allowed to produce within the city borders.
... and so on
No one is needed to enforce these rules within a city because they are set by the ruler and restrict or allow certain gameplay mechanics while you are in the town or city. On top of that, if your local ruler is only a small lord belonging to a bigger kingdom, the king or marshal might also set some rules applying to his whole kingdom / area of influence (at least to all cities or villages belonging to his dominion).
This is the kind of "metagame" associated with being an empowered person in OKAM... That's how I understood it so far.
This is necessary due to the fact that Taser is right, there will definitely not be enough people willing to do the boring RP tasks needed to carry all this out with players only.
So, who's the ruler? An admin? chadz? :lol:
I like what Salvius says. Things such as taxes should be automatic as collecting in a video game would be tough. And an 'automatic gate' would make life easier.
As for who 'rules', ya, that's more complicated. I suppose it could be by agreement. Just a dialogue box where you hit 'accept' when someone asks for 30% of your income. You could always say 'no' provided you accept the circumstances.
This would allow for a more feudal society. As the player base grows, the layers of society will grow too. If you own a large tract of land you could get 3 other players farming on it as well, and you collect 30% off each. With that money you could build a keep for storage and a place of safety for your farmers, and you'd do what you can to ensure they succeed as you get a cut.
And perhaps you'd also have to pay a percentage to a nearby town ruler for 'protection'. In the town there would be rents on shops and houses to be collected, and a sales tax on goods exchanged there. The rents, and the gatehouse rules, would be controlled by whoever built the walls (or claimed ownership). Since there might be a bit of back and forth, perhaps the money and the controls would be in the gatehouse which could be accessed only by the owner, or by force... perhaps possession of it for a day or two til you have full control over it.
Sales tax would go to whoever keeps trade safe between the cities. I would think this would be the king... or President or Grand High Dragon Wizard or whatever you want to call it. Market places are established in towns by said ruler with the 'accept' dialogue between him and the town ruler. The idea is he'll ensure authorized caravans can travel safely.
I think there should be a lot of tax as only organized groups should be able to afford the really good armour and siege equipment etc. We don't want a guy to sell his first harvest and buy full plate then go killing noobs (a guy who wants to be a bandit should be armed like a bandit in WB single player). But we do want guys fighting big battles in good gear which would be returned... unless the guy decides to desert... so don't equip new players with your best gear.
For all you anachronists out there that want a democracy or theocracy or whatever can still vote who your leaders are, but you'll just have to trust him once he's in that he won't enact martial rule.
That doesn't feel very natural. It'be better, if the ruler was an actual admin.
The fundamental thing to this, is that everything is carried by a word of mouth and posters, either carried by a player or an appointed NPC - no automatic stuff.
So when you act against the rules instead of being banished from the city you'll be banned from the server? :?
Also, players can ignore the ruler and just do their own thing. The ruler can issue a bounty on such a person. Or he can be a mad ruler and issue a bounty on the chill woodcutter that lives next to his castle, just because he looked at him funny. The fundamental thing to this, is that everything is carried by a word of mouth and posters, either carried by a player or an appointed NPC - no automatic stuff.
I like that. It should be players only though, no NPCs.
I see no alternative to actual players guarding the city in case of incoming armies for example. They wouldn't have to sit on the battlements and stare into the open all the time but when you're there, you would scan the horizon every now and then, I would assume. It's not like the enemy will be at your gates at lightning speed.
I take it that you guys, haven't decided on a timeframe for a round of the Epic, yet?
I would personally like 2 kinds of servers.
One server that plays a round in one week, with specific time-frames, when you can join and play on it. More war-like. Permadeath would be common and only way you could survive a battle, where you have fallen is if the enemies take you prisoner or someone gets your unconcious body back to a town, where a doctor will treat you. The map would be smaller and player counts high, because of the limited time-frame, when you can play on the server - say 2 blocks of a 4 hour period. It would be more focused on conquering the map, rather than being economically superior. Towns and people could be attacked freely. Since the map is smaller and there is a definitive primetime, I don't see the need for NPCs or atleast not as many of them.
The other kind of server I would like to see, contrasting the previus one, is a slow-paced persistent world. Going on for months, maybe a year. More focused on capturing resources and economy, rather than conquering the map by force. You could join and leave the server as you liked. Permadeath wouldn't be such a big issue. Firstly, because the round takes so long, you can easily make new characters and have enough time to climb to your former glory. Secondly, because of some kind of organic mechanic, like law-enforcement or because you would rarely fight with the head of your family in battles. Logging off is not an issue, since attacking a settlement, where you would hopefuly make your home, would be limited. Attackers would have different options, when they attack a town.
1.They can attack immedietly. But only destroy the periphery and the battlements and other barriers, that are not within the center of the city itself.
Next, they can schelude, with the local lord(or owner of the town or whatever) a time, when the siege will take place(or they can do this right off the bat, before destroying the walls etc.)
First, they decide on the time of the siege. This is pretty straigth forward. Both have 6 tries to settle on the time, within an 18 hour period(or any other number, really). If, they don't agree on a specific time a compromise is made, based on the times that were given during the negotiation. After that, based on the number of players in the city, the attackers that made it to the outskirts of the city, before the start of the siege and the different times given during the negotiation - a time limit for the siege is set. If, the attackers capture the city within that time limit, they win. If, the defenders successfuly defend the town for the time given, the attackers have to withdraw and schelude another attack. Anyone in the city, after the timer expired (i.e. defenders if attackers win/attackers if defenders win) takes a place in a mini-game, where they either have to escape the city or be captured by the opposing army. Think of it as a grand chase of sorts. If, the gate is intact and there are no holes in the walls and no ladders or any other means of escape, the pursuers can capture all the people inside, just by closing it.
2. The attackers can demand something. A time when these conditions need to be met is scheluded between the commanders. If, the conditions are not met the siege proccess outlined above takes place. If, they are met, but the attackers still decide to attack the town, the siege proccess above still takes place, but they get a penalty in the time-scheluding part.
During the time between the negotiations and the actual attack, given that the attackers destroyed the periphery and are camped infront of all exits, everyone who wants to exit or access the city, has to pass through the camp, where they may get mugged, taken prisoner or even murdered. Obviously, the defenders or their allies can plan a pass through the camp in disguise and assassinate the commander, assuming he's logged in.
End of suggestion.
What's the point of NPCs then?
What's the point of NPCs then?That's the main question. Who's gonna make lemonade ?
Golem, don't expect me to read your wall of text. Not gonna happen...
They're there for hard and time consuming labor.
I was referring to being a messenger.
Can you please read the wall of text so you don't sound like a moron, when replying to my post?
Can you quote me correctly when you're trying to refute me?
I want to be a voodoo shaman who programs NPCs into collecting taxes. Medieval mechatronics ftw.
What's the point of NPCs then?
I imagine it like this. You can record a few lines for the NPC, like "Give me taxes, give me taxes.", then send it on its way. This would be both immersive and funny.
You could also set how long the NPC will sit infront of everyones house, waiting for the owner, before it goes to the next one.
I want to be a voodoo shaman who programs NPCs into collecting taxes. Medieval mechatronics ftw.
What I said about guarding was that you wouldn't have to actively do it... you just need to watch the horizon from time to time. What's the hard and time consuming labor about that?
And how do you expect NPCs to do a better job at it?
I don't know. Might work with NPCs if they know exactly what to do. But I would prefer having interactions with humans only.
(click to show/hide)
You would prefer to have interactions with humans only, why? Because of immersion? Because you're scared of AI or you don't recognize their authority, even though it'b given by a human?
Keeping an eye out for armies should be humans. But entering a 'walled enclosure' should be NPCs. Just go to the gate, press 'E' and get a dialogue box. "You will be required to leave your weapons and armour here. Do you still wish to enter? <Yes> or <No>.
You would also have the option of smashing the gate down (only during primetime hours).
The marketplace should be Native single player. Each player could set their base price which would be adjusted by supply and demand. So with a base of 100 goods the price would be 100 Donkrönigs. Once it goes below 100, the price gradually goes up on some curved scale so the last item will be extremely expensive. And of course vice versa; if there is too many of one good, the price goes down dramatically. This would make trade viable, plus cause economic ruin if you decide to siege a town, or just wreck all the farms around it. We will need food, right? Not as in prepare it and eat it, but at least have a few days equipped, with extra storage in your house to feed you and your family in case you AFK for awhile. Maybe have hit points or agility affected by starvation, or rationed food.
Speaking of which, I think sieges should be a lot more difficult. We don't want everyone camping, so only a few people should be able to hold a walled settlement. You could force a battle by starving them out (perhaps build something in front of the gatehouse so they can't come and go when everyone is asleep) or by destroying local farms. Then, when they are sufficiently weak and haven't tried sally out or get a relieving army to save them, you can then attack.
I'm pretty sure the economy will be player-driven, so automatic prices and booths are nonsense. Obviously you can set up a booth, but can you not trade on the road? Can you not haggle? This would be really limiting. This would, infact, be more limiting than cRPG marketplace. No thanks.
I have not read the preceding text sheets so I apologize in advance if I repeat someone's thoughts
The best system of NPC was in:
- Ultima online were u can hire him for gold/day and indicate the place of protection, type of behavior, access to its inventory, or use him as companion.
- Line Age II were u as a castle owner can spend some icome from castle to buy NPC guards who played the role of strengthening the key points in the defense of the castle, and had a specific point location and Agro area
- Guild II - guards patrol path
so I would like:
- An opportunity of construction of a special structure that allows you to keep a certain number of NPC guards with a certain cost per day (if the guard a player character and not npc money payed to the family but the character is not available for the duration of the contract) (camp fire [1npc] - sentry tower [3npc] - barracks [5npc] etc)
- Simple menu to customize the behavior
- Flags of the path and the ability to use existing buildings as a flag (start - move to flag 1 - move to gate - wait 160 sec - move to flag 2 - move to camp fire - wait 600 sec etc)
- Chat command "Guards" on which nearest guards will come running to the player in case such necessity
No, bots will not play a major role in the game (if at all, combatwise), exactly for the reasons stated by Bryggan, but also for design reasons - we want to have a game that relies heavily on players, bots should play only the role of helpers.NPCs will stay in buildings- ie guards in a garrison, workers in shops, sex slaves in the brothels. You will be able to switch between your 'family' members as needed, probably by parking the character you are playing in a house, inn or a tent.
There won't be any bot guards.sad. then nothing will save you from the tribe of naked Russian (
Yes, you can trade directly, but you may want to sell your goods when you're not there. You'd choose what you put in the marketplace and what you decide to sell on your own. The automated part of the market place would just prevent you from being ripped off. Suppose you had a little iron smelter and you go to town and put 500 ingots into the marketplace at 75 Donkrönigs. Then, for some reason or other, you can't play for a day or three. In that time two neighbouring cities go to war and suddenly need a lot of iron. Then your king gets worried and decides he needs more armour in case the war spills into his territory. So you got 3 cities buying up all the iron. You come back to find that all your ingots have been bought at 75 Donkrönigs, but due to demand everyone is selling theirs for 200 Donkrönigs.
Same with if the market is flooded. You come back and the ingots are still there because everyone else dropped their prices to 25 Donkrönigs. So you find yourself coming back with no income at all, and now your family is starving.
Of course if you were there you could take out the low priced ingots and perhaps trade them for bales of wool or something. The idea is that you don't have to sit watching the market prices and finding buyers. You can leave a 'family member' in charge with his simple instructions while you mount up and patrol the Southern Forest where you heard a bunch of noobs were harassing the local woodcutters.
So as much as we'd like to be dealing with real people for every detail, not many people would want to play 'shopkeeper simulator', and you won't always be on at the same time as the people you want to deal with.
then you design mechanics that stop russians from breaking the game.
Wrong.Strategus. years.
As every aspiring gamedesigner should know, first you design a game, and then you design mechanics that stop russians from breaking the game.
As every aspiring gamedesigner should know, first you design a game, and then you design mechanics that stop russians from breaking the game.
So as much as we'd like to be dealing with real people for every detail, not many people would want to play 'shopkeeper simulator', and you won't always be on at the same time as the people you want to deal with.
At some point will it be possible to create religions? I have a grand dream of ruling a BIRD based theocracy. Plus it would be hilarious to refer to all my NPC serfs as pheasants instead of peasants.
Of course if you were there you could take out the low priced ingots and perhaps trade them for bales of wool or something. The idea is that you don't have to sit watching the market prices and finding buyers. You can leave a 'family member' in charge with his simple instructions while you mount up and patrol the Southern Forest where you heard a bunch of noobs were harassing the local woodcutters.
So as much as we'd like to be dealing with real people for every detail, not many people would want to play 'shopkeeper simulator', and you won't always be on at the same time as the people you want to deal with.
That is pretty much spot on - which is also why one of the first gameplay features after Early Access will be from the top down, not bottom up - aka meaningful battles. We'll let you know more about that part soon.That's the best way to go for sure but... so many questions, you know what, I ll wait !
At some point will it be possible to create religions? I have a grand dream of ruling a BIRD based theocracy. Plus it would be hilarious to refer to all my NPC serfs as pheasants instead of peasants.visitors can't see pics , please register or login
At some point will it be possible to create religions? I have a grand dream of ruling a BIRD based theocracy. Plus it would be hilarious to refer to all my NPC serfs as pheasants instead of peasants.Of course you can. But don't expect anything in game to help with that.
I want to be a blacksmith.... :oops: :oops:Eventually, but unfortunately chadz just said they are focusing from top down. But maybe some day you can sit in your smithy and hit a piece of steel all day- 500 overheads with hammer to make one sword.
But maybe some day you can sit in your smithy and hit a piece of steel all day- 500 overheads with hammer to make one sword.
Sounds like Life is Feudal.
Wrong.
As every aspiring gamedesigner should know, first you design a game, and then you design mechanics that stop russians from breaking the game.
Good. The door is that way ------>
And please take your shitty 22nd friends with you.
Although if you had any brains (which you don't) maybe you'd consider waiting for both games to actually come out of the early "we barely know anything about them at all phase" before bashing/praising them......and who knows - maybe even play both, each for its own qualities ? If it wouldn't be too much for your two and a half grey cells, ofc.
Sorry what was that? You said something about brains...
Not my fault if you're not smart enough to know a failure when you see one ;)
Fucking rekt
http://forum.melee.org/general/the-epic/240/?topicseen
ahahaha, it's pretty clear which one of us has brains now :)
ur dumb, like really dumb, for real
is it out yet