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cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Guides => Topic started by: Barracuda on May 25, 2011, 10:25:28 am

Title: [Outdated] Mastering Battle Archery
Post by: Barracuda on May 25, 2011, 10:25:28 am

NOTE: New patch (0.230) changed the nature of archery with the heavily decreased shot speeds. Archer hybrid doesn't seem very viable build atm. I will probably revise this guide when I get my hands on the new patch myself after the summer.

NOTE2: After testing the new patch, I found out that you must pretty much go for pure archery to be really effective. That's not for me, so no more updates.

You can still check the guide by clicking the spoiler button below.

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DISCLAIMER/WHOAREYOU

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A little about me: My game nick is Dugite from January 2011 but I've played crpg from May 2010 under various nicks (e.g. Boomslang, RedViper,...) in the EU servers. Before last retirement I had 3.something kdr (~1/3 kills from melee) with this playstyle and I think I've mastered it quite well. Currently working in another town (than my computer) so I won't be seen on servers before September.

This guide's playstyle is meant for those that can manual block and those players are veterans who already know these things. So I guess that makes this guide obsolete ;).

INTRODUCTION

This is the light battle archer build which I have really enjoyed playing. It's very challenging but can be very satisfying as well. I didn't get to see the golden days of platearmorerd longbow carrying Legolases of last year, but this build can be deadly in the right hands in the current patch, too.

Your job as a light version battle archer is to stay near melee fights and find the right moments to strike!


BUILDS

There are couple of builds that I favor and suite my playstyle:

Level 31 builds:

Strong bow: 15/24

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5 PS and PD
8 WM and ATH

160 wpf to archery
rest 2h

War/long bow: 18/21

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6 PS and PD
7 WM and ATH

160 wpf to archery
rest 2h

Level 30 builds:

Strong bow: 15/21

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5 PS and PD
7 WM and ATH

160 wpf to archery
rest 2h

War/long bow: 18/21

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3 PS
6 PD
7 WM and ATH

160 wpf to archery
rest 2h

IMO build is not that important - you can be effective with 24/15 as 15/24 if you play smart.


EQUIPMENT

Melee weapons

1-slotted melee weapon is either langes messer oder spiked mace. They are both fast weapons so wpf isn't that important with them. I've always disliked polearms so I can't really recommend any. Polearm players can post their suggestions below.

You can also go for some 2-slotted weapons with strong bow but I feel that mace and messer are powerful enough.

Bows

Strong bow really becomes effective after heirlooming it. So vanilla strong bow might feel ineffective. Then going 18/21 for warbow or longbow is a good idea. Strong bow is my favorite it’s fast and does medium damage

War and long bow are for those who wan’t maximum damage at the cost of speed. They also have to sacrifice 1 arrow slot if they want a decent melee weapon.

Armor

You should wear something light so you won't go over 7 lb effective weight (check reply #3).

Arrows

Whatever you feel like. I go for bodkins. Quality over quantity that's my motto (with many exceptions).


GAMEPLAY

Situational awareness

Wearing little armor and putting yourself near the danger demands a good situational awareness. You have to constantly watch out for horses, archers and enemies that break through the lines. Horses are your worst enemies and you should keep checking score boards for dead horsemen. You can breath much easier if you notice that their top back stabbers are dead. Your mistakes with this are usually rewarded by Death.

Enemy my old friendhers & crossbowmen

Crossbowmen are dangerous in short ranges. Beware especially mw arbalest because they will one-shot you (unless it’s raining).

Archers aren’t very dangerous unless you get caught in cross-fire and there’s many of them. Mediocre archers are usually vulnerable when there’s a melee brawl between you and them. Pick your moments to shoot through the brawl at them. Always beware of team attacking.

One important thing is always to take a side step after shooting. If you’re shot at multiple directions, take also a forward/backward step. Make your moves unpredictable by changing directions. You don’t want to be a easy target.

Got caught in the crossfire of 1+n archers? You're pretty much screwed unless they're unexperienced. You shouldn't stop to aim if they're relatively near. Constant dodging while shooting at the direction of nearest archer may work. You should always try to do at least this. With luck you may hit one of them and the tables will turn. (been there, done that)

Archer duels

Prediction is everything in longer ranges. Always try to predict which way and when enemy dodges and shoot there. If both are good, you both will just waste your arrows. I don't remember ever getting hit when dueling in longer ranges but I've managed to kill quite a few. Unpredictable dodging is the key - sometimes even stay put.

Duels in short ranges are more interesting and deadly. Again dodging is the key but also your shooting. Sometimes you should just wait for the right moment - similiary to way of waiting which way infantry dodges when running towards you. I've often used an aggressive approach and moved in on them, dodging and shooting at the same time without stopping to aim. Do this only if you're confident with your melee skills. There isn't that many good blockers among good archers (at least on EU, dated Spring 2011 ;)).

Cowardly  tactics

Running away depends on your skill of manual blocking and the skill level of the opposing force. I find running a bit lame so I usually don’t do it unless I’m very outnumbered.

Approaching enemy / gank squads

When enemy comes he usually dodges at the same time when your bow is drawn to the max. The trick is to wait for his move even if your target reticule gets bigger. Other tactic is to guess which way he dodges and shoot arrow there but it’s a 50-50 chance. High agi players do constant dodging. Don’t follow them with your crosshair all the time. Make small adjustments to your aim and shoot when they go in front of the crosshair.

When a group approaches you should pick your targets carefully. Don’t waste your arrows on the one with the huscarl shield. You can usually get free hits when people (in the back of the group) don’t bother to dodge. If there’s too many of them, you’d better run to your team mates.

Also learn to draw your melee weapon in the last possible moment. The last arrow you fire may save your life.

Shooting into melee

Learn to shoot in the fights without hitting your team mates. This requires prediction and spotting the right moment I don’t shoot in the fight at all if I can’t guarantee not hitting a team mate (with exceptions like Phyrex slicing through your team).

Main targets

Targets go from horses -> archers/crossbowmen -> melee. Don’t be narrow sighted - see potential victims behind the fight. You can check my archery gameplay video below for some tips.

1st vs. 3rd person view

I forgot to write about this but after reading  dave's great guide (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,8736.0.html) I thought I'd share my opinion. I've been using 1st person view while shooting and I find it better. It's easier shoot through small gaps in eg siege shields. 3rd person view also distorts the target reticule a bit but you can get used to it. I melee in 3rd person view and pressing 'R' while switching between bow and melee weapon has become automatic for me. You see your surroundings better when in 3rd person.

LINKS

Video

My archery video from couple of months back. Nothing fancy but you may get some tips from it.
http://youtu.be/N0LhzvTCbU0 (sorry Germans)

Crosshair that I use

http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=1546

Melee mechanics

I thought about writing tips for melee but everything is already said in this thread:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3466.0.html


Edit 1: Weight penalty was a bit wrong - corrected
Edit 2: Tweaked builds
Edit 3: Added gameplay tips, improved readability, cut the crap

Title: Re: Mastering Battle Archery (light)
Post by: ShinySpoons on June 11, 2011, 01:59:48 am

Quote from: Paul on June 10, 2011, 06:42:17 am

As far as I know crossbows get  their damage AND speed reduced to 75% during rain. Bows get damage AND speed reduced to 90%. The speed reduction does NOT result in a further damage loss if I am not mistaken.

WPF was not decreased during rain last time I checked.

Just throwing this in here so it doesn't get lost in General Discussion.

Title: Re: Mastering Battle Archery (light)
Post by: MountedRhader on June 11, 2011, 04:13:32 am

Great guide!
Found it really helpful, thanks mate!

Cheers

Title: Re: Mastering Battle Archery (light)
Post by: Barracuda on June 14, 2011, 08:00:29 am

Glad that my guide has some use :)


Here's the source of armor weight penalty. It's from crossbow data but it should work the same with bows.

Quote from: WaltF4 on May 29, 2011, 09:09:05 pm

I have calculated the weapon proficiency reduction due to armor weight for crossbows using the data provided by Gafferjack.


armor weight modified proficiency = base proficiency * (1 - 0.01 * effective armor weight)

and

effective armor weight = 3*head armor weight + body armor weight + leg armor weight + 2*hand armor weight - 7


As with the previous version, I would assume that effective armor weight values less than 0 would count as 0. The blue dots on the plot below are Gafferjack's data points and the black line shows the calculated values using the equations above.

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visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: Mastering Battle Archery (light)
Post by: Tennenoth on June 14, 2011, 12:09:47 pm

Just a quick thing here but as an 18/21 archer myself you cannot have 6 power strike, 6 power draw, 7 athletics and 7 weapon master.
The closest you can get to this is 3, 6, 7, 7 respectively since you just don't have enough points.

Also I would say it was more viable to drop 5 or 6 wpf (this is build 2 at level 30) and throw that all into 2 handed. The loss to 159/160 archery is nothing compared to the gain in melee capability with 39/50 points making it much more viable for you to fight in melee.

(Everything above is for a level 30 archer, therefore you'd only get 164 wpf at this level, reducing down to 50 wpf points to get to 159.)

I would also recommend using this build in congunction with a longbow since it appears that you are able to hold the draw on the longbow longer than you can with a warbow with the same stats.

The only major drawback is that you have to know you will hit the target before you take the shot due to the premium on arrows. If you want to get around this you will want to use a hammer and put the wpf into 1 handed instead.

I hope this helps tweak your guide, none the less it is very good.

Title: Re: Mastering Battle Archery (light)
Post by: Barracuda on June 14, 2011, 01:11:42 pm

Quote from: Tennenoth on June 14, 2011, 12:09:47 pm

Just a quick thing here but as an 18/21 archer myself you cannot have 6 power strike, 6 power draw, 7 athletics and 7 weapon master.
The closest you can get to this is 3, 6, 7, 7 respectively since you just don't have enough points.

Also I would say it was more viable to drop 5 or 6 wpf (this is build 2 at level 30) and throw that all into 2 handed. The loss to 159/160 archery is nothing compared to the gain in melee capability with 39/50 points making it much more viable for you to fight in melee.

I usually plan my builds for 31 since I don't want to make compromises but lvl 30 18/21 can be viable.

Come to think of it - ~50 points to 2h is way better than 1 extra point to archery. I'm just used to having no wpf in melee.

Guide updated.

Title: Re: Mastering Battle Archery (light)
Post by: Tennenoth on June 14, 2011, 06:16:56 pm

I understand but 90% of people hit level 31 and go straight for the retirement button so you might as well be at full effectiveness at level 30 for the longest stint of your gameplay.
My opinion naturally.

Title: Re: Mastering Battle Archery (light)
Post by: Ylca on June 18, 2011, 11:48:02 pm

Builds should be planned to 30 as most people spend less than a minute at level 31 unless they're pushing through to the end grind (32+).

Title: Re: Mastering Battle Archery (light)
Post by: Tears of Destiny on June 19, 2011, 06:50:33 pm

Quote from: Ylca on June 18, 2011, 11:48:02 pm

Builds should be planned to 30 as most people spend less than a minute at level 31 unless they're pushing through to the end grind (32+).

True, but I only retire my Main and my "pet" alt, all others I refuse to retire, so level 31 builds work just fine for me for my alts. To each their own though.

Title: Re: Mastering Battle Archery (light)
Post by: Barracuda on June 20, 2011, 11:44:54 am

Quote from: Ylca on June 18, 2011, 11:48:02 pm

Builds should be planned to 30 as most people spend less than a minute at level 31 unless they're pushing through to the end grind (32+).

Strategus is coming up soon so I guess the end grind is becoming more and more common. There's no real need to retire after enough heirlooms unless you want to change your build. And the grind to 31 doesn't get much easier after a new generation, anymore.

Title: Re: Mastering Battle Archery (light)
Post by: Ming on June 29, 2011, 08:24:29 pm

great guide, thanks alot!

I have problem dealing with 1h cavs, some good 1h cav tend to bump and slash. I tried to block but the bump makes it unblockable jumping away usually dont work against those arab horses :(

any1 got tips?

Title: Re: Mastering Battle Archery (light)
Post by: Barracuda on June 30, 2011, 09:21:36 am

Quote from: Ming on June 29, 2011, 08:24:29 pm

great guide, thanks alot!

I have problem dealing with 1h cavs, some good 1h cav tend to bump and slash. I tried to block but the bump makes it unblockable jumping away usually dont work against those arab horses :(

any1 got tips?

Well there's not much you can do especially if you're out in the open. Only good tip I can give you is not to place yourself in a situation like that. However, if there's a rock or a tree nearby, try to get to it and make use of it. Situate your self behind the obstacle and hold your bow drawn until horseman passes. Constantly move around the obstacle and shoot at the horse without stopping too much to aim.

Title: Re: Mastering Battle Archery (light)
Post by: Ming on June 30, 2011, 02:27:04 pm

Quote from: Barracuda on June 30, 2011, 09:21:36 am

Well there's not much you can do especially if you're out in the open. Only good tip I can give you is not to place yourself in a situation like that. However, if there's a rock or a tree nearby, try to get to it and make use of it. Situate your self behind the obstacle and hold your bow drawn until horseman passes. Constantly move around the obstacle and shoot at the horse without stopping too much to aim.

thank you so much, ill try this.

Title: Re: Mastering Battle Archery (light)
Post by: Barracuda on July 08, 2011, 12:42:12 pm

Gameplay section updated.

And here's something interesting about damage if someone has managed  to miss it.

Quote from: cmpxchg8b on March 19, 2011, 05:54:54 pm

Damage depends on skeleton bone hit, not on generic "regions".

head bone: melee 120%, ranged 210%
thigh/calf bones: 90%
every other bone: 100%