Allahuakbar, one less infidel.
Consequences of voting to current government.
CHP offered a research to be made to investigate accidents in Soma mine in april 29, they got rejected by AKP votes in parliament.
TA-DA 200-700 death as a result. Fucking murderer thiefs...
Allahuakbar, one less infidel.
200-700 less muslims :lol:
Well, that's just not true. Even Buddhists and Hindus are doing violent fighting and terrorism in India and such, against each other, although of much smaller scale. There's plenty of violent christian sects as well, afaik.
Name a religion that is more violent than Islam.(click to show/hide)
From what I know, Islam is the only religion that digs deep in both science and law trying to encompass them and represent them as part of Islamic teaching.
islam, religion of peaceAlso of love. Keep trying, you are getting there little mujahideen.
Allahuakbar, infidels should dieThe alter ego of you, Umbrahim showed himself again :lol: Very good my brother very good!
9/11 best day of my life
Well it also bothers me, but it's unfair to attribute that to Islam. More importantly, it's unfair and retarded to say "Muslims, really?". You are implying that because some people call themselves Muslims, they agree with that shit. If that isn't a sweeping generalization, I don't know what is. It's like me saying "Catholics, really?" every time a priest spends quality time with little boys. Although mildly amusing, it's retarded. Even better, imagine republicans saying "Atheists, really?" every time they talk about Hitler or Stalin. The funny part is, they actually do that.Kafein, y u take it serious ?
isn't sudan somewhere in new jersey?Nope, it's in Delaware.
Even better, imagine republicans saying "Atheists, really?" every time they talk about Hitler or Stalin.
Kafein, y u take it serious ?
Im sure Leshma wanted some muslims to go dramatic and tell how he's so wrong and how Islam is actually a great religion or something.
Could be hell of a drama and amusement to read then though :twisted:
Hitler wasn't atheist. Not really.
The title should be "Sudanese, really?"This.
Current affairs, Kafein! Christianity lost its influence over time. What is happening in Sudan and other islamic states is analogue to European dark ages. Ataturk is a key turkish figure because he was the founder of secular state in Turkey. It bothers me to see countries like Sudan where daily life revolve around interpretations of an centuries old writings.No , we lost that frontline too.
Im sure Leshma wanted some muslims to go dramatic and tell how he's so wrong and how Islam is actually a great religion or something.
Could be hell of a drama and amusement to read then though :twisted:
For Fuck Sake if those are muslim i am not ; if i am muslim those are not.
Simple as fuck understood ?
"I love humanity " If u ever gonna read this as a fuckin psychomaniac you can kill people.What do u think if same psychomaniac gonna read Kuran - ı Kerim ?
Again the good guys that live in the world ; we are just %10 of population rest cant even have an argument about religion.
If you really insist on making decision from an issue happened in retarted continent africa ; then i ll tell you that which fuckers made africa like this in the name of god ?
Tell me one fuckin thing that muslims made a huge amounth of killing. Dont fuckin give me retarted sucidie bombers or dont even talk about 9/11.
Aztecs and whole fuckin continent , jews , africans , turks , tatars do you really want me to continue ?
And i am not even muslim but make your facts better for fuck sake we have same amounth of morons which u have in your country as well.
No , we lost that frontline too.
Wut? Serious now, this literally? A Turk that isn't muslim?Way to be ignorant :lol:
Gotta love this community.Let's see...
Tagora you are breaking my heartI've never heard that before. n_~.
Harunyahya thinks Oberyn is representing christians... Not surprising. It's Harunyahya for a reason.Name me one pointless, religion argumant thread without Cicero and Oberyn.
Name me one pointless, religion argumant thread without Cicero and Oberyn.
Elders have spoken, the prophecy will be fullfilled
No, maybe I didn't express myself properly. Of course there are turks that are not muslims, or at least not practising islam (going to the mosque every day etc.).
But the last time I checked Cicero was making "Allah Ekber" videos with BashiBazouks.
And I think it's ok that a turk shouting "Allah Ekber" in teamspeak makes me think he's a muslim, or not?
Maybe Cicero didn't even meant it literally. That's why I asked, actually. :wink:
No, maybe I didn't express myself properly. Of course there are turks that are not muslims, or at least not practising islam (going to the mosque every day etc.).My fucking god don't be so naive ...
But the last time I checked Cicero was making "Allah Ekber" videos with BashiBazouks.
And I think it's ok that a turk shouting "Allah Ekber" in teamspeak makes me think he's a muslim, or not?
Maybe Cicero didn't even meant it literally. That's why I asked, actually. :wink:
Let's see...
Islamaphob thread is up.
Cicero is here to defend Muslims
Damn... where is Oberyn ? Who is representing Christians ? :rolleyes:
Fucking prophecy is not yet complete bring Oberyn here !
When retards start to talk
Cicero will gather the flock
If the fire is well fed
There'll be Oberyn in thread
So it begins, the endless days
Of pointless talks about non-existnant gays
Get your popcorn and shit
Relax, enjoy and have a seat !
No, maybe I didn't express myself properly. Of course there are turks that are not muslims, or at least not practising islam (going to the mosque every day etc.).Are you mentally retarted ?
But the last time I checked Cicero was making "Allah Ekber" videos with BashiBazouks.
And I think it's ok that a turk shouting "Allah Ekber" in teamspeak makes me think he's a muslim, or not?
Maybe Cicero didn't even meant it literally. That's why I asked, actually. :wink:
Wow. Why so aggressive? I was just curious about if you and other (young) turks consider themselves muslims or not, because you wrote " I am not even muslim". Thats all 8-)
Dont you fuckin understand how islam works after all these years we tried to teach you ?
We say haram on all beautiful things so noone will touch those except us.
Its the first rule of islam ffs understand it!
Are you mentally retarted ?
Do you think that we are reading kuran-ı kerim before joining EU_1 ?
I agree.
No, maybe if you were islamic fundamentalists.
But seriously, all I was asking, was if Cicero really meant what he wrote with "I am not even a muslim". :P
Naturally there are fucked up examples like this. Same with any religion.
I should start a thread called 'Hindus, really?' and post a link to the Indian election reports about how the BJP leader, Modi, is being voted in on a landslide victory, despite the fact he is still accused of inciting riots in India against Muslims and leads a Hindu nationalist party. There are many Muslims already considering leaving India if they can.
Each religion has it's fucked up aspects. And claiming that Islam is the only religion to influence law...
It comes down to dumb uneducated people not religion
Each religion has it's fucked up aspects. And claiming that Islam is the only religion to influence law...
Christianity has the IRA. That's what happens when you mix Irish People with extremism.
What's important is how islam influence law in arab countries... While I "hate" the role which religion and catholic church plays in my country it's incomparable with islamic law.
It was savage expansion destroy everyone and everything.
To have called Muslims and any other natives that have been victimised for the past 400 years anything other than people protecting themselves against aggression is incomprehensible.
Having read multiple versions of the Quran whilst it condemns apostasy, there is no mention of it being punishable by death.And in the bible there's no mention of pope, saints, commandemnts of church and so on (and on the other hand bible dictates to kill gays; "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives", or sluts; "But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death" :P). Religions, not only islam, have very little in common with their holy books.
I guess it is a bit hard to learn about "ethics" , "civil life" , "equality" and "justice" while your marketplaces get carpet bombed regularly by a fucking toy under the command of a guy who's away thousands of kilometers away..
christians bomb his town without choosing targets and killing hundreds of children-women with fucking drones every fucking day for few fucking years ?
All they seen is war since their fucking childhood and what do you expect them to act like gentlemen ?
You guys are too biased to see the point...
I think more and more people are starting to see through the political correctness when it comes to Islam. It's starting to be hard to ignore the pattern when such a big percentage of horrible things are done by Muslims.
And supposing this is true, what action should be taken then ?
And supposing this is true, what action should be taken then ?
Yes there is this Jihad thing but Quran also says "There is no forcing in religion" . So after seeing a pregnant woman got killed by Muslim Arabs then saying omg that religion is corrupted is utterly wrong .
tl;dr fuck you
There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Tâghût and believes in God (ar. Allah), then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And God is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
‘There is no compulsion in religion’ was not a command to Muslims to remain steadfast in the face of the desire of their oppressors to force them to renounce their faith, but was a reminder to Muslims themselves, once they had attained power, that they could not force another's heart to believe. There is no compulsion in religion addresses those in a position of strength, not weakness. The earliest commentaries on the Qur'an (such as that of Al-Tabari) make it clear that some Muslims of Medina wanted to force their children to convert from Judaism or Christianity to Islam, and this verse was precisely an answer to them not to try to force their children to convert to Islam."[1]
And if they argue with thee, (O Muhammad), say: I have surrendered my purpose to Allah and (so have) those who follow me. And say unto those who have received the Scripture and those who read not: Have ye (too) surrendered? If they surrender, then truly they are rightly guided, and if they turn away, then it is thy duty only to convey the message (unto them). Allah is Seer of (His) bondmen. (20)--
Had your Lord wanted, all the people on earth would have believed. So will you force people to believe?--
Whoever kills an innocent non-Muslim will not even smell the fragrance of Paradise.
And supposing this is true, what action should be taken then ?Getting rid of them.
Cant sleep Christo? sigh... me neitherFucking can't sleep neither...for 5 hours straight...
suka bljat
Deep down there it annoys you that you are in the same religious group as them, and that's where this defense mechanism is coming from?Yes, because branding all muslims fucked up in the head is insult to my sister for example. That's the source of the defence mechanism.
Sure thing, they don't force islam on you. This is correct.
Hanging is also an option.
And why is stating that Islam is corrupt wrong, when they clearly can play around with those rules as a governing force?
A governing force that is controlled by religious dogma. Therefore it's valid to say that the religion is corrupt.
Quran is just a fucked up book that contradicts itself too many times to be taken seriously.
Tbh just because you people are Turkish, you feel like you have to raise the holy shield of Islam to protect it or something?
Why do you get offended, if you are not, don't care or whatever?
Deep down there it annoys you that you are in the same religious group as them, and that's where this defense mechanism is coming from?
Fucking can't sleep neither...for 5 hours straight...You're also stereotyping. Those arabs you speak of aren't even alive anymore.
Yes, because branding all muslims fucked up in the head is insult to my sister for example. That's the source of the defence mechanism.(click to show/hide)
Laws and currency are made up, it doesnt make them invalid or meaningless in your personal life.
If your point is that connecting "arab violance and uncivilized way of living to their religion" is unjustified, I don't buy it. If you, like Overdriven, try to separate some idealistic vision of religion, based on holy books, be it Koran or Bible, from religion in real life - I don't buy it. For me religion as an abstract belief system has no meaning and isn't worth talking about. Why? Because religions preached by priests, imams or whatever their name is, have very little in common with actual text of holybooks. And after all it's all made up.
Islamic law, no matter how "twisted" it is according to Overdriven, is part of the religion of islam as a social movement, just like inquisition was a part of catholicism. If I see islam as "an evil" it's because of the actions of huge part of its followers.
Getting rid of them.
(click to show/hide)
The big majority of Muslims are as peaceful as the majority of mankind.
It's a shame but so far neither USA nor any other christian country have bombed Saudi Arabia.(click to show/hide)
YOu're talking about abstract, non-existing* belief system, I'm referring to religion as a whole social phenomena.
*Non-existing cause if the text of holy books is mostly alegorical and shouldn't be read literally, how you can know what precisely religion tells you to do. Again it comes down to made up church's - or its islamic counterpart - teachings.
Except the Quran is supposed to be read literally not allegorically
The Quran in S. 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, and 25:59 clearly teaches that God created "the heavens and the earth" in six days. Nonfundamentalist Muslims don't take the cosmological parts of the Koran any more literally than nonfundamentalist Christians take the biblical story of Genesis.
Internet tells me you're wrong.
Btw; "Verily, for the Muttaqun [righteous], there will be a success (paradise); gardens and grapeyards; and young full-breasted maidens of equal age; and a full cup (of wine)" (An-Naba 78:31-34)
Maybe it's not a bad idea to convert into muslim...
:rolleyes:
Well done for Googling one specific, minute part of the Quran. Now go and read the entire thing and then come back.
While you're at it get rid of every other religious fanatic on the planet and wipe 3/4 of the population hm... sounds good3/4 of the population are not religious fanatics.
The big majority of Muslims are as peaceful as the majority of mankind.
Much generalization. Such ignorance. Wow.
Bloberyn Martell has spoken. Masha'Allah.
I don't see how banning Islam would suddenly make the world a Utopia. There are a great deal of non-Muslim countries in the world that have done disgusting things without religious motives, such as Rwanda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide) and Cambodia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide). People will still be fucked up with or without religion.Prithee, who has claimed the world would be an utopia if islam was banned? The amount of cruelty would significantly decrease. Not disappear completely obviously
Many believe in the removal of the Taliban in Afghanistan because they are horrible islamic fundemantalists that can be saved by replacing them with a democratic modernized Afghan people, which is nowhere to be found. The taliban have simply been replaced by the Northern Alliance who are the new Military and Police authorities, whom are well known to resort to boy-pedophilia, stealing, drugs and other crimes (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8503215/Afghan-police-committing-crimes-with-impunity-warns-Oxfam.html). I highly recommend you to watch the Vice documentary "This is what winning looks like (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja5Q75hf6QI)" to get a hang of what I'm talking about. So yes the Taliban are bad, but so is the replacement.
And I would really like to hear your methods on how to "ban islam".
The title should be "Sudanese, really?"
this sentence was given under Islamic Sharia law.
Of which the official state religion is Islam and this sentence was given under Islamic Sharia law. It's kind of difficult to separate the religion from the state when they are one and the same.
So If they sentenced the pregnant woman to death in the name of Buddha would the thread be called "Buddhists, really?"
Yes! Believe in fairies if you wish, I don't give a fuck. But don't kill people because they don't believe in them.
Yeah you re completely right but what it has to do with other billions of Muslim peopleBecause they are openly under the flag of Islam, which is one fucked up religion? The religion that causes a massive amount of suffering every day? The Quran is full of fucked up writings, and if you call yourself a muslim, you're standing behind those. And fact is, muslims commit more atrocities than any other religious people.
Because they are openly under the flag of Islam, which is one fucked up religion? The religion that causes a massive amount of suffering every day? The Quran is full of fucked up writings, and if you call yourself a muslim, you're standing behind those. And fact is, muslims commit more atrocities than any other religious people.
Fact is there is no muslim faction or school anywhere on the entire planet that does not follow or addopt some of the (various and often self-contradictory) Haddiths. ...Actually there are Muslims who reject the hadith, and they are growing in numbers (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quranism).
I wouldn't stop calling myself atheist because Stalin called himself atheist too. That's just stupid.
I wouldn't stop calling myself atheist because Stalin called himself atheist too. That's just stupid.As is your post. Once again, zero relevance. Atheism is not a religion.
When atheists apply the judgement that their way of life is superior and that everyone else is an idiot, that becomes a movement and total hypocrisy.
Honestly wouldnt be surprising if in the not-so-distant future we didnt have retarded atheists going door-to-door handing out pamphlets
Yeah, it seems quite likely, but so what? Noone claims atheist can't be stupid assholes.Yes, precisely... what some people don't seem to comprehend is that atheism just means you don't believe in fairy tales. That's it. That's all. It's not a group of people with similar beliefs and outlooks on life, or codes of conduct or whatever. So you get all kinds of people who are atheists, obviously.
Yes, precisely... what some people don't seem to comprehend is that atheism just means you don't believe in fairy tales. That's it. That's all. It's not a group of people with similar beliefs and outlooks on life, or codes of conduct or whatever. So you get all kinds of people who are atheists, obviously.
You got all kinds of people who consider themselves Muslims too. It's just a word.A Muslim, sometimes spelled Moslem,[1] is an adherent of Islam, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the Quran. Muslims consider the Quran to be the verbatim word of God as revealed to prophet Muhammad. They also follow the teachings and practices of Muhammad as recorded in traditional accounts called hadith.[2] "Muslim" is an Arabic word meaning "one who submits to God". A female Muslim is sometimes called a "Muslimah"
So If they sentenced the pregnant woman to death in the name of Buddha would the thread be called "Buddhists, really?"
This argument is pointless since we re not getting to anywhere
Why are you bringing Buddhists into this argument?
A Muslim, sometimes spelled Moslem,[1] is an adherent of Islam, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the Quran. Muslims consider the Quran to be the verbatim word of God as revealed to prophet Muhammad. They also follow the teachings and practices of Muhammad as recorded in traditional accounts called hadith.[2] "Muslim" is an Arabic word meaning "one who submits to God". A female Muslim is sometimes called a "Muslimah"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim
Why are you bringing Buddhists into this argument? It's irrelevant to what happen. You're trying say mulisms are not trouble makers.
It's the turkish defense mechanism.
Truly fascinating.
oh my fucking god guys I gave Buddhists as an example it could be Satanists or Taoists idk you name it , all I am trying to say you should stop stereotyping, yes ofc Muslims did really bad things and still fighting to each other while you re reading this but my neighbour calls himself a
Muslim and a Taliban militia calls himself Muslim aswell, you see my point? As Harun said most Turkish youths are Agnostics so as I am why would I fucking defend Muslims?
It's the turkish defense mechanism.
Truly fascinating.
Yes Christo I am a little mad cus you re refusing to change your mind and insisting you re right still
Yes Christo I am a little mad cus you re refusing to change your mind and insisting you re right still.And making posts like this;
I think turks are pretty cool guys. Eh kills a million armenians and doesn't afraid of anything.
I think turks are pretty cool guys. Eh kills a million armenians and doesn't afraid of anything.
Oh boy
If only people of 'A' belief left people of 'B'-'Z' beliefs alone, including atheists.I invite you to find out what "atheism" means. You clearly have no clue.
I dont defend religious extremism, but atheists who call religion fairy-tales seem like they have a little something to prove. You're all morons if you assume you're the smartest most correct people in the world and your beliefs are more valid and intelligent.
And yes, atheism is a belief, because you are convinced beyond reasonable curiosity that there is not - and cannot be - a higher power. There's no proof, there couldnt be, but you believe it anyway cos you're *right* and it's *common sense*. Welcome to how religious people think my friends, if you ever wondered how they believe what they believe without proof, well it's because it's *right* and it's *common sense*.
If only people of 'A' belief left people of 'B'-'Z' beliefs alone, including atheists.
I dont defend religious extremism, but atheists who call religion fairy-tales seem like they have a little something to prove. You're all morons if you assume you're the smartest most correct people in the world and your beliefs are more valid and intelligent.
And yes, atheism is a belief, because you are convinced beyond reasonable curiosity that there is not - and cannot be - a higher power. There's no proof, there couldnt be, but you believe it anyway cos you're *right* and it's *common sense*. Welcome to how religious people think my friends, if you ever wondered how they believe what they believe without proof, well it's because it's *right* and it's *common sense*.
Well, you can't prove a god of some sort doesn't exist, that much is true. That's why there is negative atheism.Just like you can't prove Gandalf doesn't exist. Doesn't mean people go around saying they're "agnostic" on the issue, as in "could be either way." No, they don't believe Gandalf exists, until proven otherwise. Atheists.
Not believing he exists does not equal believing he does not exist.
I don't believe that Gandalf exists. I rather avoid believing stuff.
That's why labels suck.Nope.
Passive Atheism: People who know Gandalf doesnt exist and dont spend any time thinking about it/arguing it. *normal 99%*
Your Atheism: The guys who'd spend so much time and effort trying to convince people that Gandalf doesnt exist whilst the 99% say 'Dude, why do you care?'
That is the difference between the Atheism you're trying to define, and the particular type of Atheist you're behaving like. Every Atheist likes to think they're the cool passive one: 'Man, its just obvious... I like... barely even think about it cos its so obvious', but in reality a large number especially in this community spend far too much time caring and thinking and arguing about why Atheism is more intelligent to truly claim they're passive Atheists.
At the point where you care as much as you clearly do, Atheism becomes a belief, you clearly think about it far too much for it to be anything else or simply the 'lack of belief'.
Just like you can't prove Gandalf doesn't exist. Doesn't mean people go around saying they're "agnostic" on the issue, as in "could be either way." No, they don't believe Gandalf exists, until proven otherwise. Atheists.
If you're talking about the LOTR personage, of course he doesnt exist, he is only on paper.With the power of logic and vast intelligence.
If you talk about an entity whose name would be Gandalf, and with similar powers as the book personage, yes he could have existed/exist or exist in the future. How can you tell if something doesnt exist if you arent omniscient?
With the power of logic and vast intelligence.
Yeah, but Butan was asking how YOU can tell if something doesnt exist if you arent omniscient?Yep, and I answered him.
You're all morons if you assume you're the smartest most correct people in the world and your beliefs are more valid and intelligent.
And yes, atheism is a belief, because you are convinced beyond reasonable curiosity that there is not - and cannot be - a higher power.
I have never, ever met an atheist who proclaimed that it was completely and utterly impossible for there to exist any kind of a being that would appear godlike to us.
Snip
Atheists work on the same premise. You use your experiences and logic to determine something doesn't exist. But as there's no factual proof either way it is still a belief.
in reality a large number especially in this community spend far too much time caring and thinking and arguing about why Atheism is more intelligent to truly claim they're passive Atheists.
No, it doesn't work this way, otherwise everything would be a matter of belief. Typical example; do unicorns exist? Well, as there's no proof of their existence I'd say they don't exist, but on the other hand there's also no proof they don't exist so according to your way of thinking the only possible answer is that I believe unicorns don't exist. Sorry, but it makes no sense.
No, it doesn't work this way, otherwise everything would be a matter of belief. Typical example; do unicorns exist? Well, as there's no proof of their existence I'd say they don't exist, but on the other hand there's also no proof they don't exist so according to your way of thinking the only possible answer is that I believe unicorns don't exist. Sorry, but it makes no sense.No, it makes perfect sense. You can't know something, that you don't have valid proof of, you can only assume and believe.
As I've said elsewhere, I'm agnostic. I believe it is possible that there may be some creature, force, etc that is not well understood by humans and would be considered god-like in it's intelligence/power by comparison, somewhere in the universe. If you believe some theorists on the size and distribution of the universe, it is practically a certainty.What you "are" depends on the semantics. You'd fit just as well under some, if not most, of the atheism labels. The vast majority of atheists have the same exact position as you.
However, I am completely convinced that whatever religions humanity has deluded itself with throughout it's existence are nothing more than reflections of our own collective psyche. If there is a "god", or vastly superior being, it is nothing like what any of the Abrahamic books would have us believe. Or any of the thousands of other religions that used to dominate the world for tens of thousands of years before the jewish religion even existed, or the hundreds of others that exist concurently with it, all with deeply contradictory beliefs.
Truth is not a popularity contest. Abrahamic religions are a large portion of believers on the world because of history, because they were inextricably linked to conquest and trade and governance. Like any other religion their primary goal is almost organic, to survive, replicate and spread as far as possible. Organized religions have been around since the dawn of civilization, and probably long before that. They are a survival feature, a more inclusive form of tribalism. Another marker to determine who is friend and foe, who is person and who is unperson. Nothing more than an evolutionary addaptation on the group level. Just because certain of them are more successful than others gives them no inherent truth. If you lived 3000 years ago in, say, a greek city-state, just because everyone else believes in the same cultural myths and legends, would that make them true? After all, their "experiences" all agree. Ergo, they are true? Just switch that for literally every single religion that has ever existed, completely tied to the cultural zeitgeist of it's surroundings, and you start to see how ridiculous the claim is. Belief=/=reality, no matter how much you think it should.
do unicorns exist? Well, as there's no proof of their existence I'd say they don't exist, but on the other hand there's also no proof they don't exist
there is no certainty is science, never think that there is.
No, it makes perfect sense. You can't know something, that you don't have valid proof of, you can only assume and believe.
We have, afaik, no proof whatsoever of extra-terrestrial life. Does this mean that there is no life outside of on Earth in the entire Universe? Or is it correct to realize, that we simply do not know and saying it exists or not depends on our personal beliefs?
There is nothing wrong with being agnostic in cases where we
lack evidence one way or the other. It is the reasonable position.
Carl Sagan was proud to be agnostic when asked whether there was
life elsewhere in the universe. When he refused to commit himself,
his interlocutor pressed him for a 'gut feeling' and he immortally
replied: 'But I try not to think with my gut. Really, it's okay to
reserve judgment until the evidence is in.'28 The question of extraterrestrial
life is open. Good arguments can be mounted both ways,
and we lack the evidence to do more than shade the probabilities
one way or the other.(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
1 Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of
C. G. Jung, 'I do not believe, I know.'
2 Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. De facto
theist. 'I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe
in God and live my life on the assumption that he is
there.'
3 Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. Technically agnostic
but leaning towards theism. 'I am very uncertain, but I am
inclined to believe in God.'
4 Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic. 'God's
existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.'
5 Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic
but leaning towards atheism. 'I don't know whether God exists
but I'm inclined to be sceptical.'
6 Very low probability, but short of zero. De facto atheist. 'I
cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable,
and I live my life on the assumption that he is not
there.'
7 Strong atheist. 'I know there is no God, with the same
conviction as Jung "knows" there is one.'
Denying existance of God blindlessly, without any proof is same as claiming god's existance blindlessly without any proof.
Since Xant likes to use ill-fitting comparisons (Gandalf, anyone?), let me use one as well:And it is ill-fitting how? Both God and Gandalf are literary figures.
Denying existance of God blindlessly, without any proof is same as claiming god's existance blindlessly without any proof.Denying existence of the flying spaghetti monster is the same as claiming the flying spaghetti monster exists.
Denying existence of the flying spaghetti monster is the same as claiming the flying spaghetti monster exists.Nope, I've got proof of Flying spagetthi monster is a made-up religion to show people how blattently stupid religion is. You have none to prove that there is no concept such as god.
Nope, I've got proof of Flying spagetthi monster is a made-up religion to show people how blattently stupid religion is.
Just because it's become popular and cool to call them fairy tales and myths does not make it right.
You do realize that all myths are made up right ?
And yes, absolute certainty is absurd. However, just because something is not certain doesn't mean you can't live assuming it is certain.
lol :lol:Nope, that's a 7. If you were a 6, you'd say you assume/believe he doesn't exist. Will you finally get it? :rolleyes:
In my book when I say god doesn't exist I'm 6.
HESKEYtrollingbigTIME
Religion has different approach. They know EVERYTHING. So yeah, Xant is religious.
First you had no idea what atheism is, and now you've even went and confused your logical fallacies. But nobody's dumb on purpose.(click to show/hide)
You do realize that all myths are made up right ?Actually religion is a myth with followers. Greek mythology, Viking mythology were all religions at their time, after people denied them and converted to other belief, they began to be called myths.You claim Myths are made up but people of those ages didn't think that. Same goes for todays beliefs.
And yes, absolute certainty is absurd. However, just because something is not certain doesn't mean you can't live assuming it is certain.
I also believe that religion is a moral code for people, check it out all major religions say the same stuff basically. Don't rape, don't steal, don't kill etc.
Death is not certain either. There are no certainties.Death is certain. Life is just a series of memories and thoughts, when your brain dies, your life ends aswell. If you defy life as ability to exist in any form, you may be right.
Death is certain. Life is just a series of memories and thoughts, when your brain dies, your life ends aswell. If you defy life as ability to exist in any form, you may be right.And how can you be certain that your brain is going to die? Would you say it's 100% certain?
And how can you be certain that your brain is going to die? Would you say it's 100% certain?Because brain activity can be easily monitored.
Also, using religions for a moral code is horrible. What those books tell you to do... well, let's just say that you have to be very, very selective if you wish to use them as a moral guide.
Because brain activity can be easily monitored.That is the past. We are discussing the future.
Human body is a complex biological machine. Cells grouped up to tissues, tissues organize to do certain things as a part, organs work like gears, if one fails, whole body fails.
Life is ending that is a hard fact, I've seen it. When you lose a loved one, see her cold,dead body you are certain that there is an end.
Once you realize you cannot have any more memories with someone, be sure he/she is dead. Maybe exists in somewhere else in some other form but the one you know, shared moments is gone that's why im certain that death is the only certain thing in this known world.
Even if we were "immortal", machine, memory or flesh, in the future, entropy is inevitable. So yea, you could say death is pretty much certain.There is a big difference between "pretty much certain" and "certain."(click to show/hide)
Well.... spoilers.So you were agreeing with me.
My point being: nothing is certain.
It can only be highly unlikely/likely to the point of almost certain.
So if religion wouldn't exist, everybody would kill, rape, and steal?
Does this make me a rapist thief murderer by your analogy?
That is the past. We are discussing the future.What future ?
And how can you be certain that your brain is going to die? Would you say it's 100% certain?
Brain dies, information may be preserved. At the moment, we have no way to access it so we can classify it as data. Problem is that many scientists have same jerk attitude as those religious leaders they dislike so much. Saying how data stored in our brain goes poof after total system shutdown is not really according to the laws of physics. It certainly is out of our reach, just like data stored on RAM chips after they lose power. But it is just a form of energy, therefore it can't disappear. I want to believe in possibility that data we gather during our lifetime can be decoded. I actually want to believe that is universally possible, that we'll find a way to transform energy back and forth on our own without having having to wait on universe mechanism to do it. After all, science is nothing else than rediscovering and understanding how our universe works.Even if you can move your preserved data to "afterlife" you'll remain dead to people you left in world.
As Carl Sagan said, we (humans) and everything that surrounds us are made of stardust.
What future ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FutureThanks i didn't know the definition of future.
So you were agreeing with me.
Thanks i didn't know the definition of future.The time after the present. You can't be sure that death is certain for anyone alive at this moment.
What an enlightment !
The thing is, you told me we are discussing future after i replied how im %100 sure brain dies... That statement is still unclear so once again, what future ?
The time after the present. You can't be sure that death is certain for anyone alive at this moment.I am %100 sure that everyone will and should die eventually. Never said it'll happen now, as the time passes we all approach to our inevitable, absolut end.
I am %100 sure that everyone will and should die eventually. Never said it'll happen now, as the time passes we all approach to our inevitable, absolut end.So if there are an infinite amount if universes, you cannot imagine one where people don't die? That's what 100% means. And if that's what you truly claim, well.... you are wrong.
I am guessing you are implying death is not certain because as time develops, there may be a chance to be immortal by advanced medical science.
Considering the money gained by people dying, I don't think thats likely to happen soon. I am %100 sure our generation wouldn't see that.
You buy food which has additives to increase free radicals in your body which causes cancer.
You buy treatment to overcome cancer which also kills your healthy body parts
You buy treatment to cure sideeffects of cancer aswell
You die.
It is an example of many common ways gaining shit tons of money by getting people dead. To achive immortality, humans should overcome their ego and probably get monatary system out of their lives which is a fucking distant utopia.
So if there are an infinite amount if universes, you cannot imagine one where people don't die? That's what 100% means. And if that's what you truly claim, well.... you are wrong.I am talking about the known world, reality. If we gonna get into "If..." sentences we will keep doing this conversations forever.
http://lesswrong.com/lw/mn/absolute_authority/
http://lesswrong.com/lw/mo/infinite_certainty/
http://lesswrong.com/lw/mp/0_and_1_are_not_probabilities/
Did you just call it 100% sure?First of all, chill.
That means you know what will happen. You have a time machine? Insight into the future? You are death?
Feel like sharing with us?
There's a chance that human immortality could be reached the next day, or the next... if you think about it it can be interpreted like the lottery, just with more factors. I know blah blah scientists blah research blah. You know what I'm talking about here.
I find it hilarious how you look down on Atheists because they don't 100% believe in fairytales, then say that Atheism is the same as Theism (the what),
And then you make an "I am 100%+ sure" claim.
The fuckwhat.
I clearly don't know what you are talking about there.
It is a surprise to meet someone who thinks death is not certain because humans can discover immortality tomorrow. I thought those kind died in 16th century after they realized there is no fountain of youth.
Christo ; i really didnt know you were that much dumb and retard.
Harun is just trying to argue and share this thought about the most retarted topic and actually he is not insulting or humiliating for fuck sake.
Even he answered your retarted post as "Chill" ; whats ur fuckin problem ?
1 ) 14 years old
2 ) On period
3 ) Your father / mother hit you with hosepipe or ironed when you were 6 years old.
I am pretty sure you are trying to show how cool you are but dude calm the fuck down you wont get attention for that anymore dont be DaveUKR ; dont be an attention whore.
Your own foolishness.Nope you wont get Esteem level.
Read all of my posts.
Internet 'discussion' everyone loses, the one who keeps talking and insulting longer gets to feel like they won.Heh, I don't believe in god as a deity that could materialize or practice influence on the world around us, but I rather see god(or Allah or whatevs) as a means through which people can find peace of mind and a safe feeling. But to each their own, discussing wether or not he is fake is pointless with a believer, I mean they belief, don't they?
Religion debate on every thread involves the same people saying the same things, although this is the first time i've seen anyone apart from myself argue a non-atheist perspective. Normally it's just everying repeating each other about how clever and atheist they are and how they dont waste any time discussing religion... for dozens of pages.
You should teach a master-class in 'How to argue your own opinion without evidence in a way that 7 year-olds will believe'. Because nobody older than that is being swayed by your opinions, no matter how often you repeat them or insult them.
3. Xant is a moron beyond repair, "arguing" with him is a waste of keyboard & brain cells
... Bayesian thinking.
Xant is not a friendly fellow, and he hates women, but does not strike me as stupid...
I am talking about the known world, reality. If we gonna get into "If..." sentences we will keep doing this conversations forever.I'm talking about reality as well, and like I said, you're wrong. You don't seem to understand any of the concepts I'm talking about. Since we don't know what will happen tomorrow, any number of things could happen, and we could be living in any one of those infinite universes, therefore if something is imaginable in one of them, we might be in that one. 100% doesn't exist. In fact, if you're familiar with the Many Worlds theory of Quantum mechanics, every one of those universes could be happening.
Imaginations are limitless, there may be an alternate world where asians have 5 dicks 2 meters long each where black people have tiny lil pipis.
I'm talking about reality as well, and like I said, you're wrong. You don't seem to understand any of the concepts I'm talking about. Since we don't know what will happen tomorrow, any number of things could happen, and we could be living in any one of those infinite universes, therefore if something is imaginable in one of them, we might be in that one. 100% doesn't exist.
Just like you can't prove Gandalf doesn't exist. Doesn't mean people go around saying they're "agnostic" on the issue, as in "could be either way." No, they don't believe Gandalf exists, until proven otherwise. Atheists.
There is no contradiction there.Certainly there.
Pick one :lol:Nice one ptx :)
Xant is not a friendly fellow, and he hates women, but does not strike me as stupid...I have nothing against women, actually. I just don't a) define myself by a hole in their body and b) don't like to read about ultimate women warriors because it's unrealistic, which is forgivable, but more importantly for me, I can't identify with them.
I've learned 3 things from all these dramatic threads across this forum:Lol those detections...
1. Christo is anything but a calm Hungarian fatty pacifist who occasionally strives for a bit of drama
2. Cicero persistently types "retarted" instead of "retarded", only he knows why
3. Xant is a moron beyond repair, "arguing" with him is a waste of keyboard & brain cells
Stay calm and keep learning.
I'm talking about reality as well, and like I said, you're wrong. You don't seem to understand any of the concepts I'm talking about. Since we don't know what will happen tomorrow, any number of things could happen, and we could be living in any one of those infinite universes, therefore if something is imaginable in one of them, we might be in that one. 100% doesn't exist. In fact, if you're familiar with the Many Worlds theory of Quantum mechanics, every one of those universes could be happening.Nope , I totally understand you the thing I am failing to make you understand is I am not talking about "if death is certain in all universe including all possible alternate dimensions we might have." I am talking about the world we live in without a bending in space/time continium. If you gonna base all your opinions on, "fuck this we have quantum mechanics", everything can change, you should carry a gun and live in fear because every night there is a chance of gigantic tribe of rapist black giants can appear in your room. Life is not Half Life though, I won't base my opinions on experimental science because you can't live like that, it's impossible to live by thinking there is endless possibilities, life is complex enough there is no point making it harder .
Lol those detections...Actually its impossible to shoot someone in quantum mechanics :)
Nope , I totally understand you the thing I am failing to make you understand is I am not talking about "if death is certain in all universe including all possible alternate dimensions we might have." I am talking about the world we live in without a bending in space/time continium. If you gonna base all your opinions on, "fuck this we have quantum mechanics", everything can change, you should carry a gun and live in fear because every night there is a chance of gigantic tribe of rapist black giants can appear in your room. Life is not Half Life though, I won't base my opinions on experimental science because you can't live like that, it's impossible to live by thinking there is endless possibilities, life is complex enough there is no point making it harder .
Nope , I totally understand you the thing I am failing to make you understand is I am not talking about "if death is certain in all universe including all possible alternate dimensions we might have." I am talking about the world we live in without a bending in space/time continium. If you gonna base all your opinions on, "fuck this we have quantum mechanics", everything can change, you should carry a gun and live in fear because every night there is a chance of gigantic tribe of rapist black giants can appear in your room. Life is not Half Life though, I won't base my opinions on experimental science because you can't live like that, it's impossible to live by thinking there is endless possibilities, life is complex enough there is no point making it harder .I am also talking about the world we live in. Fact: you cannot know what happens one second from now in some laboratory somewhere around the world. Much less what happens tomorrow, much less what happens a month from now, much less a year and so on.
Actually its impossible to shoot someone in quantum mechanics :)Why does that make it impossible?
Xenon Paradox.
Hesky, it's funny how you try to claim the moral high ground in the discussion and at the same time you're insulting and flaming like everyone else. I don't mind it, cause it's entertaining, just saying that you're hypocrite.
I gave you my very first minus I handed out in years. :D
Bursting in like that, assaulting a fellow discussion contributer and then leaving,
you tend to take it quiet personally when i dont agree with you.
If you are concerned with me 'insulting' or 'flaming' Xant,
Sorry Christo but I am closer to Cicero on this one (oh the shame I feel) but Harun wrote stuff which made way more sense than the things you wrote.
Not to mention that weird "self defence mechanism" you pulled out of your butt a dozen pages ago with no real basis.
Anyway, that's all I wanted to say. Carry on... don't mind me.
Yep, it's definitely Christo, that should apply some reading comprehension before embarrassing himself, in this thread. I reread the last few pages and got no idea what made him go into full rage anti-Turk mode :|
There's no such thing like "kill all the infidels" in kuran-ı kerim , it only says infidels will burn in hell cus they re bundle of stickss worshipping false gods , the violence done by Muslims is cus of Arabian heritage , come on we re talking about people who impales their own kin cus they re gay. The reason Islam spread through Arabs is because Arabs were worshipping silly statues , and fighting to each other to prove which god is the best one. After Turks fought as Mercenaries in Arab armies they embraced Islam just like Vikings embraced Christianity after fighting for Brits.
Yes there is this Jihad thing but Quran also says "There is no forcing in religion" . So after seeing a pregnant woman got killed by Muslim Arabs then saying omg that religion is corrupted is utterly wrong .
tl;dr fuck you
This is so wrong in many points.
Comparing stoning which is punishment who rejected religious law with crusades ? Christians even have Papacy to enforce religious laws and shit.
Crusades still happen, it was about wealth back in medieval era , same shit happening now.
You guys are so biased which amazes me... Both Jihad and Crusades still happen, those who give the order are still enjoying it, those who die in battlefield still honored as "martyrs" all religions have fanatic dickheads you know Muslims because it's been thought to you for centuries that muslims are evil. Fucking arabs still live in medieval because fucking christians still invade their lands and not giving them a chance to rebuild a civilization (Although i don't believe that Arabs are capable of building one but they atleast deserve a chance.)
Great now we turned this funny thread into a retarded religion debate show.
Well you cant blame all the fuckin basket if there are 2-3 rotten apples and when it comes to religion u cant even blame even if there is only 1 proper apple and rest is rotten.
If you stick on those then anyone can say that all christians are pedophilia
Lol Christo, we got a brainwashed proud follower of Jesus Christ here.
oh my fucking god guys I gave Buddhists as an example it could be Satanists or Taoists idk you name it , all I am trying to say you should stop stereotyping, yes ofc Muslims did really bad things and still fighting to each other while you re reading this but my neighbour calls himself a
Muslim and a Taliban militia calls himself Muslim aswell, you see my point? As Harun said most Turkish youths are Agnostics so as I am why would I fucking defend Muslims?
Christo ; i really didnt know you were that much dumb and retard.
Harun is just trying to argue and share this thought about the most retarted topic and actually he is not insulting or humiliating for fuck sake.
Even he answered your retarted post as "Chill" ; whats ur fuckin problem ?
1 ) 14 years old
2 ) On period
3 ) Your father / mother hit you with hosepipe or ironed when you were 6 years old.
Yes Christo I am a little mad cus you re refusing to change your mind and insisting you re right still.
(click to show/hide)
Wow ;
I have seen many rages in past 4 years on forum but never seen that much ; dude u just went full retart.
I am gonna call this christo from now on you totally deserve it good job :
See, I think drugs have done some *good* things for us, I really do. And if you dont believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a Favor: go home tonight and take all your albums, all your tapes, and all your cds and burn em. 'Cause you know what? The musicians whove made all that great music thats enhanced your lives throughout the years...
Rrrrrrrrrrrrreal ------ high on drugs."
Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather."
"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, it´s what it is ok?. Keep that in mind at all times. Thank you!"
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I like how none of you even try to come up with something, other than a doge picture (wow), and the most original statement about drugs.I am not google, won't answer your all retarded questions and accusations. I was taking you serious because since you are playing this game for 500 years I thought you were an adult who is able to think rational. After following your recent posts in this and other threads, I am sure (%100 certainity, considering other possible parallel universes and shit aswell) you are worthless to explain stuff.
drown in mestral blood.
Rot in your bullshit ideas.
Turks are not Arabs.Yes, after your bullshit textwall, fail connection between posts and getting unrelelated conclusions after reading all those, I couldn't think otherwise.
Turkish people are often Kemalist, who are secular.
Secular people are not Islamists.
What's next, the sky is blue? You are not explaining anything informative, and taking things waaay too personal than you should.
You just had to do it, didn't you.
Yes, after your bullshit textwall, fail connection between posts and getting unrelelated conclusions after reading all those, I couldn't think otherwise.
So....we just learned that Cicero is the black sheep of his family........who would've thought.....I didnt fuckin give a secret ; its pretty sure that your family are christians :)
I have seen many rages in past 4 years on forum but never seen that much ; dude u just went full retart.
Sure, I'm teaming up against them.But... you started it? All you've been doing in this thread is repeating "turkish defense mechanism", like a broken cassette player, even after they stated that they're not muslim, that they don't support all that stuff and even after they said it's not really a case of muslims but rather of arabs and others.
Totally.
How should I treat somebody whose best try is an insult saying that "your father hit you with a hosepipe 14yo on period?"
And maybe consider that it might piss you off too when everyone pulls you over the same comb with violent, sick fanatics just because everyone assumes you're a Muslim simply by living in a certain country.
If i kept responding to every post you make, regardless of context and content with some insult against your nationality, what would you do? :|
Please stop.
I must have missed some pages because I dont feel like Christo said anything more shocking than others :P
Christo steps out of his UN drama observer role, priceless.
I'm sorry, I know that for many of you English isn't your first language; but when you're calling someone a retart
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pls
In order to settle this matter once and for all I propose a Trial by Combat a.k.a. Duel of the Barrels, between (obviously) Harun & Christo. The one who achieves more RPM wins this argument.
In order to settle this matter once and for all I propose a Trial by Combat a.k.a. Duel of the Barrels, between (obviously) Harun & Christo. The one who achieves more RPM wins this argument.
Guys this has to happen while emotions/hype are/is still high.It shall be a Gentlemen's duel with these items!(click to show/hide)
Cicerbro vs Christo suka bljat. Im calling it, lets reslove this in the spirit of crpg. EU 3 with a great big audience!
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He doesnt have a chance in duel like the rest of crpg.Dat defence mechanism... Why cicero why you blablabla
Dat defence mechanism... Why cicero why you blablablaTurkish defense mechanism = activated
What the fuck happened in this thread.What a mistake... y u no activate your defend mechanism :mad:
I stopped reading after page 10 :D
What the fuck happened in this thread.I can make a summary of 12 pages.
I stopped reading after page 10 :D
what im i gonna do on sleepless nights ? :cry:
Fuck off Turks, you killed the thread...read Kuran-ı Kerim.
We were doing pointless talks for hours now what im i gonna do on sleepless nights ? :cry:
Turkey: 'Women Shall Not Laugh in Public' says Erdogan's Deputy (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/turkey-women-shall-not-laugh-public-says-erdogans-deputy-1458847)
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 54 :: Hadith 460
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning."
Muslim :: Book 8 : Hadith 3432
Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah her pleased with him) reported that at the Battle of Hanain Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger (may peace te upon him) seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that:" And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (iv. 24)" (i. e. they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end).
Bukhari :: Book 7 :: Volume 62 :: Hadith 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
Dawud :: Book 38 : Hadith 4341
Narrated Mu'adh ibn Jabal:
AbuMusa said: Mu'adh came to me when I was in the Yemen. A man who was Jew embraced Islam and then retreated from Islam. When Mu'adh came, he said: I will not come down from my mount until he is killed. He was then killed. One of them said: He was asked to repent before that.
Narrated by 'Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him."
(Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57)
Russians are the worst, though.
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