GG you got raped. Video incoming.Now that's just unnecessary.
Now that's just unnecessary.
Welcome to the world of new strategus, where the only way to win is to hack your opponent and abuse spawning glitches.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a sperglord spawn camping you, forever.
GG you got raped. Video incoming.
How did we abuse spawning of any sort? Please explain. Also whats with this whole hacking your opponent?
This thread is going to be horrible as people are going to spend more time arguing about their e-clans street cred than actually trying to fix the game based on the events of the battle today. Hell you can barely get anyone on the other side to even partially admit that 30 second battles in which half the team doesn't spawn with full gear might not be in the best interest of the fun rating for the future because they're too busy "LOL U LOSE WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS".
This thread is going to be a trainwreck and most people in it are going to show exactly where their priorities lie. Sadly for most that will mean "our clan wins no matter what the cost, screw actually beta testing anything". Disappointing, to say the least.
Welcome to the world of new strategus, where the only way to win is to hack your opponent and abuse spawning glitches.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a sperglord spawn camping you, forever.
Faction: LLJK
Welcome to the world of new strategus, where the only way to win is to hack your opponent and abuse spawning glitches.
Faction: LLJK
hack ... and abuse
LLJK
Welcome to the world of new strategus, where the only way to win is to hack your opponent and abuse spawning glitches.Please explain this "glitch" kind sir.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a sperglord spawn camping you, forever.
I'm not usually one to point this out but I think the comment should be made:
EDIT: I suggest no more comments be made before the video is posted. There's no use to hearsay when better evidence is [almost] available.
You know if LLJK members are so many of the terrible things you say they are wouldn't it be easy for someone of such obviously inferred superiority to actually respond and refute their points? Interesting how rarely that actually happens in lieu of simply posting the clan tag and taking a shortcut around forming coherent thoughts. I wish i could finish all my debates by simply walking over to someone and repeating their organizational attachments over and over again.
Actually, i don't cause i find it pretty simple to actually back up what i say.
I'm starting to think that chadz invented Strategus because he could not find any more worthwhile soap operas to watch...
I'm not usually one to point this out but I think the comment should be made:
EDIT: I suggest no more comments be made before the video is posted. There's no use to hearsay when better evidence is [almost] available.
try and defend what has happened in the last two weeks.
Welcome to the world of new strategus, where (1) the only way to win is to hack your opponent and (2) abuse spawning glitches.
If you want a (3) picture of the future, imagine a sperglord spawn camping you, forever.
I normally do exactly what you're talking about. But when somebody makes doomsday premonitions on a street corner, occupying attention only by virtue of their location and volume, and when we've almost every reason to believe they're false (because of their easily demonstrable absurdity), then we say to the children passing by, "ignore the crazy man - people have been saying such things for thousands of years and many of them have been wacko to begin with." It was a point made in jest - something I thought I could get away with because it was so silly to start with.
Please explain this "glitch" kind sir.
chadz purposely changed spawning to: defenders spawn first (used to me 60 secs) with a delay before attackers spawn.
chadz purposely changed spawning to one at a time once every second instead of all each 3 secs
The map was small and we went forward in a coordinated mass and attacked your troops--fault for Tydeus for attacking us there =)
We routed your army, capped your spawn, and hunted down the rest.
We can't help that some of your members got the no equip bug (which has always been around in strat, happens to everyone) or they were too stupid to chose equip they could use--we played well and won. Sorry you didn't do the same! Better luck next time old chap, that's the nature of video games, war, and well about everything else I can think of. Have a jolly good day.
Now lastly--the new spawn system is rather silly imo--I've said that about the several BRD vs Merc battles I attended. But until then, tally ho!
i hate all of you. here's what happened.
1) ATS spawned 60 seconds before DFC
2) ATS starts rushing to DFC spawn
3) (I didn't witness this) ATS allegedly is teleported back to their spawn once they get too close to DFC spawn
4) DFC starts spawning
5) About half of DFC's force is naked or without gear - cav without horses, infantry without armor, etc. These weren't new players, all of DFC/DFC's mercs had prior strat experience and there was plenty of gear as I'm sure goretooth can confirm, this was a bug
6) 20 seconds after spawning, not everyone is spawned yet and people are still trying to figure out what's going on with the gear
7) ATS shieldwall appears over the hill
8) ATS bumrushes spawn, because we had no chance to organize and half our players weren't geared properly we get overrun
9) Spawn capped, match ends
Now, ATS is claiming all of DFC was spawned, there were only a couple naked guys, etc. This is false. We had about 45 players in game and there was not anywhere near that number on the field. About half of those spawned didn't have gear.
ATS and their braindamaged sycophants claim this battle was won fairly and should not be reverted - this is ridiculous. Not only was DFC only half-ready due to a bug and the 60 second spawntimer, ATS abused the spawn delay (clearly, time meant for defense to set up, not for a spawn rush). I feel that DFC's gear should be returned and the battle re-fought tomorrow, hopefully without any bugs and without ATS abusing poorly thought out game mechanics.
It is truly unfortunate that ATS is so full of infantile powergamers that they would shun a fun, large scale field battle and instead opt for what amounts to exploiting in order to gain some e-turf.
Here's the video, form what opinions you will. :oThis says it all really, thanks for posting. Now hopefully some of this BS will die down (although I must confess, I relish destroying these pathetic attempts at counter-arguments put forward)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgGrZYu0TII (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgGrZYu0TII)
I'd support a re-fight, if only to have a more interesting battle with such good gear/players/commanders. It's also good to expunge such bitterness about a game.There will be part 2 tomorrow, anyone who wants a rematch can show up for that instead :)
There will be part 2 tomorrow, anyone who wants a rematch can show up for that instead :)
+1 To Xol
Examine the video. Here is the most unbiased explanation I can offer.
At 1:44 we see the team lists. A total of 7 people have not spawned on LLJK. It looks like only 1 has not spawned on ATS. LLJK has approximately 20-30 more seconds for those last 7 people to spawn before the ATS infantry engages them.
Carefully watching and pausing every second from the time LLJK is more or less visible after 2:00, I am able to count 4 people who are naked. Two of them have weapons, one appears to have nothing, and one appears to have only arrows.
At 2:20, Zanthos attacks two people who look like they were supposed to be cavalry, because they appear to be using lances but do not have a horse. At least one is able to play cavalry, since he attempts to get on a courser.
But I do not see any player who spawned with armor but no weapons at any point in the video. The video is not the best quality, but it's clear enough that had a number of people spawned weaponless that I would expect to be able to spot one.
I was present during the battle and did not see in public chat that there were any spawning issues at all for LLJK. It is important to say immediately in public if something appears to be broken. I only recall seeing very few naked people and I do not recall seeing anyone else running around weaponless.
ATS did have at least one player spawn without a weapon, but that was a mistake on our side, not a problem with cRPG.
Spectators did clog up the server at the very beginning, an issue not visible in the YouTube video of the battle that affected both teams, and this is something that should be addressed by chadz.
Initially we all believed that dfc was simply angry about the loss and we were overjoyed with what seemed like an almost flawless victory. None of us were paying attention to what was said in chat and we were all preparing ourselves for a fight.
if you want to call our tactics cheap that's fine, but we play to win. When we came over that hill we saw large mob of disorganized enemy, took the initiative and attacked before the enemy could co-ordinate. As it has been said multiple times, spawning without gear in strategus is a normal thing (even though it normally doesn't happen so much to one side in matches).
We didn't attack early because we saw a bunch of naked people. Nothing was even said about that in Ventrilo or anything once we formed up on the hill. We simply spotted disorganization and charged for the win.
I apologize for my trolling on IRC after the battle, I honestly thought we just had a great victory and was happy, and thought it was funny because (in my point of view at the time) the enemy team seemed to just be making excuses for a sorry defeat. After watching the video I can see that there were some issues with your spawn.
When we attack tomorrow ATS will be put under the pressure of having to co-ordinate with a lot less time, considering we are attacking rather than defending. I'm confident that we will organize just as well as we did regardless (if you watched the video, it shows that it took us around 10 seconds to organize our shield wall.)
I'm sorry for dfc's bad luck as far as spawning without gear goes, but shit happens and has it has been said, this IS a beta and there are still glitches to smooth out.
No reason to get too angry though, I'm sure that once the new strategus comes out, this one will get wiped. This is just practice for the real thing, right?
From watching the vid, I really can't say I spotted a problem.
The spawning without gear happened because several people spawned with a piece of equipment that only exists a few times. There has never been a bug where people spawn with half their equipment.
From watching the vid, I really can't say I spotted a problem.
The spawning without gear happened because several people spawned with a piece of equipment that only exists a few times. There has never been a bug where people spawn with half their equipment.
And from the rest: All I've seen is a peasant mob trying to attack a well-trained and coordinated army - and getting repelled instantly. You can clearly see how one side is perfectly coordinated, while the other side was a bunch of farmers.
If you attack, it's up to you to be better than the defenders. Attacking is no longer a troop-comparison - you need tactics and commitment to pull off a successful attack.
Which means if I can get about halfway to their spawn in the beginning 60 second defender set-up time, I can be in their spawn killing them when only 20 of their team have spawned.
I'm not personally a fan of the way the battles have been going at all. These quick 2-5 minute fights are simply not fun for anyone. It is important to keep in mind that they (the devs) are working on it and have made changes. Constructive feedback from fights like this is likely the best way to help them fix things. We all want fair fights with no glitches or spawn related issues in the future version of Strategus.
I want to see this. I want to see a real example of this happening, not some theory. Because so far it was always the same: both teams spawned fully when reaching each other. Like in this battle.
Show me how you successfully exploit it and I'll change it.
Tried to test this right now in the 5 LLJK vs. 1 BIRD CLAN battle that was scheduled. We had one person on each team, it got to STRATEGUS STARTING IN 60 SECONDS, then nothing happened for about 4 minutes. Then I (defender)spawned and the game immediately declared me the winner without giving the attackers a chance to spawn.
So, yeah.
Tried to test this right now in the 5 LLJK vs. 1 BIRD CLAN battle that was scheduled. We had one person on each team, it got to STRATEGUS STARTING IN 60 SECONDS, then nothing happened for about 4 minutes. Then I (defender)spawned and the game immediately declared me the winner without giving the attackers a chance to spawn.
So, yeah.
If it wouldn't be so lame, I'd post a facepalm picture.
Let me put it like that:
What the hell has that to do with the topic.
If it wouldn't be so lame, I'd post a facepalm picture.
Let me put it like that:
What the hell has that to do with the topic.
Well lets see, the topic is about how the new spawn system has major problems. I would assume that "one side not spawning at all" fits neatly in that category.
Not at all, this thead is about balancing issues.
What you are "reporting" is merely a security feature if one team thinks it's funny to join but don't spawn by having the equipment screen open.
If it wouldn't be so lame, I'd post a facepalm picture.
LLJK just won by bumrushing the attacker's spawn with minimal coordination against pecores, who were obviously expecting it judging by the use of siege shields. Come on, there has to be some issue here if LLJK's bumrush was that effective. There's been two big battles that turned into no-contests because of the spawn system in the last two days.Seriously here people. We've all been awake for 30 hours waiting for this, we had an assload of newbies, and as you people never seem to stop whining about, we're LLJK.
We just fought a battle (Ayn Assuadi vs Pecores) in which we were on the enemy team well before their entire team organized. The battle was over in minutes. It was not fun yet apparently according to chadz us coralling the supposed attackers into a defensive position on their own flag, then running them down well before they could get organized was business as intended.
If this is the way strategus battles are going to be i can forsee very few people bringing armies larger than 100 anywhere. Why do we need tickets if 1K armies are routinely destroyed in seconds, there's no point in making a large army at all here.
This is not in any way fun at all and i hope you would look into this mechanic. People aren't going to log on for "epic" fights that last 5 minutes at a time. Also the current system gives so much of an advantage to defenders it is not even enjoyable to win a battle. I want to talk all sorts of mad shit, but i just don't feel we really accomplished that much.
Now that's just unnecessary.Ummm...
Shogunate falls to our superior tactics!
This system is just chadz trolling :lol:
These battles are kind of dumb I even feel bad for shogunate. But thanks for all the rouncies
Only spawned once in the whole battle :rolleyes:You fell to SUPERIOR GOON TACTICS.
This system is totally screwed.
Battle footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kleiZVHrZmI
Notice I definitely had boots and a shortened military scythe equipped, but they didn't appear when I spawned.
Notice I definitely had boots and a shortened military scythe equipped, but they didn't appear when I spawned.
Templars attack LLJK. Two screens showing the mess. The defenders were at the attackers spawn when just like 10 attackers had spawned. One minute later the "fight" was over.EVERYTHING IS WORKING AS INTENDED SUPERIOR TACTICS BEAT DISORGANIZED PEASANTS(click to show/hide)
Dang, what a disorganized bunch of peasants those Templars were.
Strategus, where relatively normal people become incredibly autistic.
Strategus, where relatively normal people become incredibly autistic.
Kinda sad that a feature put in to help the defenders SETUP before being attacked is continuously exploited to zerg down the attacker before they can even spawn 10 people.
Words
From watching the vid, I really can't say I spotted a problem.
The spawning without gear happened because several people spawned with a piece of equipment that only exists a few times. There has never been a bug where people spawn with half their equipment.
And from the rest: All I've seen is a peasant mob trying to attack a well-trained and coordinated army - and getting repelled instantly. You can clearly see how one side is perfectly coordinated, while the other side was a bunch of farmers.
If you attack, it's up to you to be better than the defenders. Attacking is no longer a troop-comparison - you need tactics and commitment to pull off a successful attack.
Spergs will be spergs. However the entire community basically thinks the current version of strategus is a shithole, its hardly the same thing.
I want to see this. I want to see a real example of this happening, not some theory. Because so far it was always the same: both teams spawned fully when reaching each other. Like in this battle.http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,12115.0/topicseen.html
Show me how you successfully exploit it and I'll change it.
This is what he intended, so you can't even argue it's an exploit. Everyone should be complaining about this so he sees that the community wants it changed.
Stop the ad hominem attacks and go ahead and actually try and defend what has happened in the last two weeks. LLJK was hacked and lost two armies, and now apparently it's possible to win a battle before one side even spawns. But, oh "LLJK LOL THOSE my old friendS", best argument you've got, I guess.
blah blah blah
Two things. First, don't reply to comments made 40 posts ago without reading the intervening stuff. If you bothered to, you'd read that a good portion of our team was missing gear (a bug that we now have video evidence of), and that the spawning mechanic has been used multiple times since your battle to faceroll the attacking faction.
I think you're on crack good sir. The attackers had basically as many people as the defenders when we attacked you guys across the open battle field. It was a very small distance between us. I was scouting your spawning, and when we did our first cavalry charge (right before the infantry hit you) you guys had 5 war horses and 2 saddle horsemen encircling your troops who were surrounding your spawn point. You had at least 40 people in the mob before I ran through your ranks with my horseman.
I honestly don't know what the problem is here. So to quote a fine man:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
/edit: seriously stop bitching...dfc side had at least 40 people spawned...there was a massive blob of people unorganized huddle up, while the ats side was coordinated and attacking. i only saw two naked people with large weapons on dfc side, most of them were equipped almost as well as our side. You had fucking war horses...
//edit 2: just watched the video you can clearly see when the guy hits tab for scoreboard that almost all of the dfc side had spawned in. on a related note i got the first kill in battle :D And to repeat about dfc's cav claims, you had 5 war horses and 2 saddle horses (that I saw).
I was in the battle (hint, I was at the top of the scoreboard at the end), and I watched the video. You had all your troops spawned, and I personally scouted, and ran through your whole ranks. You only had a few people without armor, and they still had weapons (your claims about not having people spawned and with weapons, thrown out). We also had a couple people who spawned without weapons. You had 5 war horses and 2 saddle horses (cav claims get thrown out). Us defenders spawned one at a time and after 60 seconds it respawned us all back on our spawn point. We didn't engage you guys until 2 minutes into the battle, and if you look at the scoreboard of the video all of your people are basically spawned in before our infantry gets over the hill.
You had all your troops in battle when the attack occurred, I was our scout and I personally witnessed your army massed up around your spawn point with your 7 or 8 cavalry circling your ground troops.
And btw, I have read through the thread, you guys keep saying the same thing despite reality contradicting you (along with video evidence).
You seem to be mistakenly under the impression that anyone gives a flying fuck about the battle yesterday, other than exposing a bug and a broken gameplay mechanic. Either your reading comprehension skills are shit, or you are being willfully stupid. In either case, I'll summarize for you:
Attackers get screwed on spawn. Defenders rush the attackers' flag and cap it really quickly. There is also some sort of problem with equipment spawning.
ATS took advantage of the spawning system which no on in their right might would expect them not to do. LLJK has taken advantage of that same mechanic three times to win three consecutive battles this morning, after chadz insisted that the system was working as planned. Meanwhile, video from these battles has also proved that the bug with equipment spawning indeed exists.
People are now claiming that the spawning system is not balanced and needs to be changed. Don't bring up crap from yesterday that no one cares about. Ecko himself agreed that the spawn system needs to be changed for the sake of the mod.
I'm not arguing whether the spawn system needs to be changed or not. I'm arguing that the attackers had just as fair as a chance as the defenders.
And this is the part that proves to everyone who will ever read this thread that you are absolutely and completely moronic. Please take your stupidity somewhere else in case it's catching.
No, you guys are bitching and complaining that you were beaten because it was "unfair" playing conditions. You had every single opportunity that we did.
I'm not arguing whether the spawn system needs to be changed or not. I'm arguing that the attackers had just as fair as a chance as the defenders.
Erm the whole reason that everyone is upset is because the attackers and defenders do not have an equal chance. Hence the 3 days of complete slaughter for attackers in almost all of those battles.
And I'm saying that the attackers had the same opportunity. They had everyone spawned in by the time our infantry marched over the hill. Maybe the map needs to be larger on the battle maps. They had an equal chance as the defenders, the defenders were highly organized. The attackers were not. What do you expect when you have a massive player base with half of them being trolls trying to fight a highly organized alliance?
No, you guys are bitching and complaining that you were beaten because it was "unfair" playing conditions. You had every single opportunity that we did. You bitched and complained about specific points. I destroyed your points. Now you resort to talking shit. Good argumentative skills you have there.
And I'm saying that the attackers had the same opportunity. They had everyone spawned in by the time our infantry marched over the hill. Maybe the map needs to be larger on the battle maps.
For 3 days the attackers in just about every battle were a disorganised rabble and the defenders super soldiers?
PS: Tunnel vision is bad
clearly and the goons will forever maintain control of the desert becuase of their superior tactics used against every "unorganized peasant" that dares to attack until the spawns change.
Ask pecores/shogunate/templars about their battles this morning, im sure theyre just as upset as we are.
I don't know, I've never been in a battle before. I can only speak from my personal experience.
I can only speak from my personal experience in dfc attacking ats. I was on ATS side and at 60 seconds after we started spawning, we all mass re-spawned on our spawn point. 60 seconds after that respawn the entire dfc side was spawned in. At this point I was within eyesight of their spawn and they had a massive infantry force around their spawn with cav circling. So complaints that the battle was unfair are not based on reality.
One difference in that battle might have been that there was a longer distance to the other faction and you where on foot holding shields, while the most other had at least a few cav that were at the enemy within seconds.
Also in the video of your battle it seems as if the defender is still spawning or just have finished spawing when you arrived at him. So there is almost no time for the defender to set up any formation with all its soldiers. That IS a big disadvantage, hence the fact that always the attacker gets into a defensive position right after start which is just stupid.
One difference in that battle might have been that there was a longer distance to the other faction and you where on foot holding shields, while the most other had at least a few cav that were at the enemy within seconds.Cav may have already gotten there (though from what I've heard they were just scouting) but nobody really died until the infantry got there. The orders, in fact, were for the cav to charge when the infantry lines were about to meet.
Also in the video of your battle it seems as if the defender is still spawning or just have finished spawing when you arrived at him. So there is almost no time for the defender to set up any formation with all its soldiers. That IS a big disadvantage, hence the fact that always the attacker gets into a defensive position right after start which is just stupid.In Zanthos' video it shows how the dfc team had 30 full seconds to spawn their last 7 guys before the infantry lines met.
So this means I can ninja the enemy attacker spawn and stop the battle?And it turns out its true, just with a slight spawn protection. Until it gets changed, though, you gotta live with it.
Thanks - we're working on it.
When medics says about "Cancer healing" - "we are working on it" - I understand. It's a long process.
But when just need a say\write couple of words (rule) - and answer is "we are working on it"...
I can't understand it.
So here's how shit went: First of all, you have to understand that I had people (devs included) telling me that I would most likely be hacked in some way for this battle and that when I was, I needed to immediately tell chadz in irc and change my password. Second, because of that, I lowered everyone's rank to "1" in the clan so that the only account that could access anything of importance for the battle, would be my own. Because of this, we ran slightly behind schedule(Which caused several other problems).
I can't imagine that anyone could honestly feel as though they accomplished anything or "won" any victories in any of these battles.
That's really depressing to hear that the devs themselves admit they can't stop the hacking issues plaguing this game, still.I don't quite so much blame the devs for this as I do the community, sadly.
how are people hacking into your strategus accounts? are they brute forcing your passwords? if so make some more secure passwords...From what we've been told, they're not brute forcing the password or accessing the actual account at all, but changing things around on the database. It's apparently something to do with how Strategus and cRPG accounts are linked.
or are people hacking the actual strategus database/server?
WOW that's fucked up...i just assumed it was someone trying to brute force into accounts...
if the database or server gets hacked it should be restored to before it was corrupted...
good thing this is only a beta, I'm assuming it will be wiped when everything gets worked out.
pro tip for system admins: wireshark
Also the roster was wiped buu 45ish mercs were luckily there to step in.
Hack 1: VRN/Pecores attacked LLJK - As Phantom said, every merc was unhired with the exception of one and most of our top members were unhired as well. We lost the village. Gaga also had his tropps and gold transfered to a neutral castle as well.seriously, do people have any honor? What's the point of hacking your way to victory. Strategus is about fighting, conquering and defending against other players.
Hack 2: LLJK attacked VRN/Pecores - This time every single LLJK member was unhired, and only one clan of mercs was left on the list. VRN/Pecores had only 9 people or so and were spawning in naked. We won back the village.
*Tydeus, by his post, was warned by devs to expect to be hacked for the Dfc attack on ATS.
Hack 3: The Risen attack today. People were unhired, and those he did not hire were instead hired to the list. There were also server issues going in another battle.
That should sum up the 3 hack attacks so far.
Have you ever thought that its not someone doing that to win, but to create drama and to troll the entire community?It would probably be more wide-spread in that case, rather than focused entirely on LLJK or people fighting our enemies.
My question about this is why in open field battles are the defenders allowed to spawn first? It makes sense for defenders to spawn and prepare for an incoming attack on a permanent fixed position like fiefs and castles yet I fail to see how someone taking the initiative in being an aggressor in an open field fight has to attack an automatic counter attack.
If such is the case that every battle in open field allows the defenders a decisive initiative in both forming up and option for opening advance then what is the honest purpose of battling in open field as an advancing force?
It seems possibly that some type of commander initiative rating should be in place and that should decide which side spawns first and at what rate (troops/second) based off of the skill. If the commander skills are within x amount of each other then both sides should have equivalent staging time before the fight is on.
Consider using a mid point invisible wall for the setup timer so organization and field deployment actually play more into the battles. (Were an initiative system used I'm sure you could push the wall further towards a field direction based on "commander initiative" skill so that more of the field is usable by the more dominate commander.
Just my 2 cents.
SIDENOTE ABOUT HACKING - I'm not a huge forum whore so I'm not sure if and where it's been addressed, but has the hacking been discussed by the developers? Have they verified it's a database hack and not someone using a shitty password that is being brute forced?Yes and yes.
I don't get why the initial spawn is 1 at a time...wouldn't you get your army setup properly for the start of the attack?