Official Survey about item power

[Khurt]

Cavalry are supposed to counter the archers by flanking, but shielders can counter by going head-on. It's simple medieval tactics.

y, tell this to french at Agincourt

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agincourt)

[Sir_Mateusz]

cav>archers>footmen>spears>cav

Archer are the best vs cavalry, especialy against horsearchers.They can kill horse very easy.

Cav>infantry>archers>cav this is how it looks.

[Khurt]

Archer are the best vs cavalry, especialy against horsearchers.They can kill horse very easy.

Cav>infantry>archers>cav this is how it looks.

you are right.
They used cavalry till 1942 because they sucks against ranged -.-

horse archers are not to be take into account for the simple reasons that they are not in standard European armies. Only mongols used them (with great results) against the heavy shielded and armoured Byzantine infantry that could not even reach them.

In this game there are a lot of stupid things, like people jumping like volleyball players with a 30kg plate armor + 2*15kg shields + 6kg sword and kill a charging horseman, but in real world archers could throw one, maybe two volleys before cavalry could cover that 300 meters (long bow range) and slaughtered them.

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

you are right.
They used cavalry till 1942 because they sucks against ranged -.-

horse archers are not to be take into account for the simple reasons that they are not in standard European armies. Only mongols used them (with great results) against the heavy shielded and armoured Byzantine infantry that could not even reach them.

In this game there are a lot of stupid things, like people jumping like volleyball players with a 30kg plate armor + 2*15kg shields + 6kg sword and kill a charging horseman, but in real world archers could throw one, maybe two volleys before cavalry could cover that 300 meters (long bow range) and slaughtered them.

aah yes but English Longbowmen could easily fire 6 arrows a minute so if there were 300 longbowmen in a unit they could fire 1800 a minute so the cav would either be dead already or they would flee, unlikely as it is IF they did carry on charging they would be so few that they would be picked off.

[Cepeshi]

I just want to respond till i forget what i wanted to say and before i had time to read thru the whole post thread.

Anyways, for obvious reasons i choose to nerf polearms (mostly better than their 2h counterparts, either remove stun or lower speed...most of top tier poles have bonus against shield and are on par with dmg with swords, or even better)...after playing for ages with sword i am actually thinking to retire just to go pole, as not loomed pole seems better choice than triple loomed claymore now, if purely for the stun (and nom nom shieldsmash)

Secondly, nerf horses, seriously, way back i was able to dodge lancer with 6 athletics, now i have difficulties doing it with 8 (on my speedy gonzales alt anyways). If a horse bumps me to death while not even running fullspeed, what the hell? And watching horse ballet as you try to avoid some guy is getting quite annoying aswell, the maneuverability is way too high, even for loomed versions...horse should not be able to turn around on nickle and dance like freaking irish man around you, period.

Thirdly, as we saw quite a huge nerf for swords (yeah, i cannot even 1hit most of the horses while they go fullspeed at me, either they dodge or i just make them red ), i demand the power to be given back! Well, demand, as much as i can from my position

Anyways, overall the patch is quite fine, i am playing more chars now as its impossible to rush retirement if i want to try out new spec, and as such it gives better overview of the situation.  Just, why did you changed the bow dmg to pierce on the one bow? Rendered the plate armor totally useless as i got 2shotted from bow in Lordly gothic ...

[Sir_Mateusz]

aah yes but English Longbowmen could easily fire 6 arrows a minute so if there were 300 longbowmen in a unit they could fire 1800 a minute so the cav would either be dead already or they would flee, unlikely as it is IF they did carry on charging they would be so few that they would be picked off.

Don't forget heavy cavalary is armored and have shields. Its not easy to penetrate fulplate armor with longbow (depends of angle etc). Even if the horse is hit it does not stop charging - herd instinct.
Read about polish Husaria, they very often charge at muskeeters and canons and after battle losees maybe 10% riders.
When musketers shoot they lossen ranks, and tighten when they reload, charging at full speed. And this beautiful 6,2m long lances... pike is about 5-5,5m and goes at an angle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H0Bds79f4U&feature=related

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

Don't forget heavy cavalary is armored and have shields. Its not easy to penetrate fulplate armor with longbow (depends of angle etc). Even if the horse is hit it does not stop charging - herd instinct.
Read about polish Husaria, they very often charge at muskeeters and canons and after battle losees maybe 10% riders.
When musketers shoot they lossen ranks, and tighten when they reload, charging at full speed. And this beautiful 6,2m long lances... pike is about 5-5,5m and goes at an angle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H0Bds79f4U&feature=related

muskets and cannons are way different to bows and arrows

[Khurt]

aah yes but English Longbowmen could easily fire 6 arrows a minute so if there were 300 longbowmen in a unit they could fire 1800 a minute so the cav would either be dead already or they would flee, unlikely as it is IF they did carry on charging they would be so few that they would be picked off.

and then? they had no aimbot in XII century. They usually thrown tens of thousands arrows in battles, but they could not kill so many people, due to low accuracy and enemy armors.
Try to hit a horse charging you at 15 m/s. It take 20 seconds to reach you and even if you are the fastest archer in the world, i don't really think you will be able to throw more than 2 aimed arrows.
"horse are bigger and easier to hit" is pointless. An air plane is not easier to catch than a mosquito just because is bigger. But an air plane is not easier to catch than a mosquito just because is faster. It's depend on what are you using: a rocket can easily strike down a jet, but can't even track a mosquito.

Archers sucks in melee 'cause they lacked of armor, armament and training. And what's the fastest way to reach them and start a melee fight? A man with 50+kg armor or a light and fast horse? As i said before, heavy infantry could not even reach archers.

[Cheap_Shot]

It's always funny to see discussions about video game balance devolve into people debating realism and history.

"THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!" he said, as he sat behind his computer screen, after having been killed by arrow fire. He furiously typed, sweat glistening on his brow, "YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO KILL ME BECAUSE IN THE 12TH CENTURY-" He continued in that manner well into the night. His character of course wore samurai armor and carried an English bill hook.

[Bulzur]

It's always funny to see discussions about video game balance devolve into people debating realism and history.

"THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!" he said, as he sat behind his computer screen, after having been killed by arrow fire. He furiously typed, sweat glistening on his brow, "YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO KILL ME BECAUSE IN THE 12TH CENTURY-" He continued in that manner well into the night. His character of course wore samurai armor and carried an English bill hook.

+1 

[Khurt]

It's always funny to see discussions about video game balance devolve into people debating realism and history.

you didn't get the point :/

it's not a question about realism.
The problem is that people believe in strange (and illogical) thinks and use that to justify changes in game play.

[Cheap_Shot]

you didn't get the point :/

it's not a question about realism.
The problem is that people believe in strange (and illogical) thinks and use that to justify changes in game play.

It sounds like I get the point exactly?  :

[Soldier_of_God]

1.) Buff Horses

Anything below a destrier is practically worthless, save the courser for its exceptional speed. anything above that is far to expensive, and slow as hell, which amounts to death in any battle server.

a.) reduce cost
b.) increase armor
c.) increase health.

choose one or do all three, any of the options would remedy the situation

2.) Buff 2h swords

quite simply, compared to sword and board and polearms, this weapon is weak. its slower and shorter than polearms, and with it you can only defend or attack; not both at the same time, unlike the shield users. what really makes the 2h weapon unique? nothing, thats what.

a.) add 3 speed to all weapons
b.) add 2 damage to all weapons
c.) reduce price by 15%

choose one or do all three, any of these options would make it better.

3.) Nerf polearms

polearms are a very touchy subject because there are many different types; they are very versatile. the concept of the 2h weapon is that one is better than 2. the concept of the polearms is the bigger the better. gamewise, this plays out as the 2h sword being outranged, outdamaged, and most of the time outspeeded. oh yeah, and if you get hit by it, you're stunned.

a.) remove stun animation, which sucks ass anyway, and is VERY disorienting.
b.) slow weapons down by 2 speed
c.) Nerf iron staff; its VERY OP at the moment, being able to one shot my palfrey with a STAB, and if that doesnt do it, its so fast they can swing again.

add

c.) lances can be swung left to right, heavy lance is 75 speed.
d.) add 3 pierce to all thrust attacks.

4.) Nerf Shield

As it stands, shields are VERY strong. TOO STRONG. a buckler can take a dozen arrows with its invisible ghost reach, and a huscarl shield is nigh destructible.

i propose that all shields be reduced by 100 points for high tier, 50 points for mid tier, and 25 points for low tier, OR that shield resistance be reduced drastically.

i say this as a sword and board fan, that also does 2h; SHIELDS ARE OP.

and that is why i voted those.

[Gorath]

with it you can only defend or attack; not both at the same time, unlike the shield users. what really makes the 2h weapon unique? nothing, thats what.

both at the same time

 
What hack are you using?

[DarkFox]

1)Do something with this 2h hordes.Its too easy to play as a 2h right now.
2)Buff throwing.