cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: TactiCol on January 18, 2011, 10:52:26 am

Title: Too many projectiles
Post by: TactiCol on January 18, 2011, 10:52:26 am
Too much shit flying through the air, Melee Class are getting it in the ass from all comers.

Does anyone have a solution as the balance of power has clearly shifted toward these classes ?

Maybe nerf archer damage and accuracy toward melee class and keep it the same for archer/archer engagement.

When the patch before last nerfed archery a bit, the battles were far more engaging for all classes imho.

Between archery and throwing, melee class can't swing a sword without getting a projectile to the face.




Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Spawny on January 18, 2011, 11:02:03 am
Throwing and archery aren't unbalanced or OP or whatever. It's just that there are a lot more of them these days.

People addapt to new situations. As there will come more archers, more people will start using shields to protect themselves. You just can't get away with a pure IF/PS/Ath/WM build anymore as a 2h/polearms. You just need to spend a few points on shieldskill (3 is enough for a shield that covers you from tip to toe) and you can safely advance towards the frontline.

Keep in mind most throwers and archers are easy kills when you get in their faces.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Malevolent_Warlord on January 18, 2011, 11:15:29 am
Why don't u whiners just try those classes urself?

All those who bitch about this and that always just stick with their one and only class and when they get killed by some other class that stops them from killing peasants they start to bitch and moan.

If ranged players bother u get a shield, avoid them, manuever, use stealth, hunt them with a horse.
Don't expect ur character to be an all-beating-jack-of-all-trades-yber-spam-crushthrough-overkill.

If u get killed, its because u made a mistake.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: TactiCol on January 18, 2011, 11:21:10 am
Why don't u whiners just try those classes urself?

All those who bitch about this and that always just stick with their one and only class and when they get killed by some other class that stops them from killing peasants they start to bitch and moan.

If ranged players bother u get a shield, avoid them, manuever, use stealth, hunt them with a horse.
Don't expect ur character to be an all-beating-jack-of-all-trades-yber-spam-crushthrough-overkill.

If u get killed, its because u made a mistake.

Fail response tbh. Unnecessary Vitriol

I did roll an HA, but I didn't enjoy the long distance combat. I like to be in amongst it.

Shields are one way to curb it but then it's turtles v archers. Hardly makes for the most engaging gameplay.

No one is complaining about getting killed.

Get yourself back on the failbus. :)
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: TactiCol on January 18, 2011, 11:22:41 am
Throwing and archery aren't unbalanced or OP or whatever. It's just that there are a lot more of them these days.

People addapt to new situations. As there will come more archers, more people will start using shields to protect themselves. You just can't get away with a pure IF/PS/Ath/WM build anymore as a 2h/polearms. You just need to spend a few points on shieldskill (3 is enough for a shield that covers you from tip to toe) and you can safely advance towards the frontline.

Keep in mind most throwers and archers are easy kills when you get in their faces.

Fair comment.

Maybe it is more to do with the fact that there are just so bloody many of them.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Punisher on January 18, 2011, 11:26:17 am
Archery just needs a little dmg nerf on arrows (-2 dmg would be enough), the real problem is throwing. Throwers should get a new animation that would prevent them for magically picking axes out of their ass at machinegun rate. Also powerthrow should decrease accuracy just like powerdraw decreases archer accuracy. It's not normal to have people with 10 powerthrow and 1 throwing WPF and HIGH accuracy.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Everkistus on January 18, 2011, 11:55:03 am
Archery just needs a little dmg nerf on arrows (-2 dmg would be enough), the real problem is throwing. Throwers should get a new animation that would prevent them for magically picking axes out of their ass at machinegun rate. Also powerthrow should decrease accuracy just like powerdraw decreases archer accuracy. It's not normal to have people with 10 powerthrow and 1 throwing WPF and HIGH accuracy.
Throwing is never really accurate if you don't use stones. My thrower has 12 PT and 100-something WPF atm, and with the better throwing weapons it's just luck that gets me hits. Only thing that really onehits people are throwing lances, rarely jarids. I was going to say something here which I totally forgot, but by nerfing throwing you'll just encourage people to use bows or xbows.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: krampe on January 18, 2011, 11:59:27 am
I was going to say something here which I totally forgot, but by nerfing throwing you'll just encourage people to use bows or xbows.

I would appreciate that.
Xbows -> long reload so they can shoot me once then they are dead
Bows -> low damage so they can hit me often then they are dead
Thrower -> high damage and high frequency so im dead
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: bredeus on January 18, 2011, 12:18:55 pm
I've got that strange feeling that after implementing repair cost which hittet plated knights and horse lovers most, everyone is throwing something
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Phyrex on January 18, 2011, 12:26:53 pm
It's a living hell for a 2-hander, like myself, to get into melee on certain maps. First I have to endure the hailstorm of arrows to advance forward to the village and when I get there I have to dodge axes and other nasty shit thrown at me + the usual asshole who continues to aim his bow specifically at me. Almost like he got some personal hatred for me, stalking me across the whole damn map.

Should anything be nerfed? No. Archery, Xbowing and throwing is fine. Archery should get back their original animations imo, the current one looks like shit but that's a different topic.

The main problem is that there's way too many of them. Seems like everyone and their mother got throwing these days. And to change/force people out of there playstyle is hard if not impossible. I have really no idea on how to fix this issue.

I guess though, chadz could nerf the shit out of throwing and then stealth buff it up to its normal level. Making the overall majority of the throwing crowd swap to something else for abit.

Other then that, here's my usual reply to archers and throwers, ranged in general - Die in a fire you cowardly scumbags.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: BlackGyver on January 18, 2011, 12:36:13 pm
The main problem is that there's way too many of them. Seems like everyone and their mother got throwing these days. And to change/force people out of there playstyle is hard if not impossible. I have really no idea on how to fix this issue.

There's actually a simple solution to this. Having a % allowed of archers and throwers in the teams. Past this %, extra people see their bows/throwing weapons disabled. No need to nerf them more this way, and you won't see half of your team going archer anymore.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Brutal on January 18, 2011, 12:37:54 pm
I like that way better than half of the shiny knights reloading their xbow behind a wall like it was prepatch.
At least thrower as to be just behind the front line to be effective. plus most of them are easy kills cuz they are so slow.

Archer are pretty annoying without a shield on certain map because they can get you from so far away.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: TactiCol on January 18, 2011, 12:38:05 pm
There's actually a simple solution to this. Having a % allowed of archers and throwers in the teams. Past this %, extra people see their bows/throwing weapons disabled. No need to nerf them more this way, and you won't see half of your team going archer anymore.

Would make sense.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on January 18, 2011, 12:45:21 pm
There's actually a simple solution to this. Having a % allowed of archers and throwers in the teams. Past this %, extra people see their bows/throwing weapons disabled. No need to nerf them more this way, and you won't see half of your team going archer anymore.

Let us just not forget about 2handers, having only a small % of them in each team while others would have their weapons disabled! Great idea bro hope chadz implement this ASAP
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: EponiCo on January 18, 2011, 01:00:34 pm
And the more wpf you have in archery or 2h the higher the chance that your bow and 2h is taken away.  :lol:
The usual asshole is an archer doing his job btw instead of shooting peasants.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Dekiri on January 18, 2011, 01:06:30 pm
There are great solutions to this "problem".... stop playing 2h spam classes when you are unable to dodge arrows and bolts or use a fucking shield.

As an archer i can tell you exactly who is invincible to me and its not the 2hand spammers that stand in some corner and wait to be shot.

If more people use shields or watch where they stand and go the ranged classes are in serious trouble.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Joker86 on January 18, 2011, 01:23:30 pm
There are great solutions to this "problem".... stop playing 2h spam classes when you are unable to dodge arrows and bolts or use a fucking shield.

It's funny how people always assume you can move faster than an arrow  :?

I have ATH 7 and light equipment, and in most cases I don't wear a shield any more. So whenever I approach archers I run around like a madman, running zigzag (and I do it right, I move farther than my body is wide, I am not one of those "shivering" but basically remaining on the same spot. And I don't jump!), and after a few seconds I recieve my first arrow into the shoulder, then the next comes into my stomach and I am dead. I reach archers in one of 5 cases, if they see me.

So again:

YOU CAN'T FUCKIN' DODGE ARROWS!

At least not good enough to call it a viable protection.

___________________________________________________________________________________________

If there is a class too popular it's a good clue it could be OP, at least concerning the difficulty to play it. And throwing is like 1 or 2 "free kills" per round, as you only need to throw into the enemy cluster, sooner or later you will hit someone. Pure meele builds don't have these easier kills, they always have to watch footwork, blocking, feinting, etc..
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Noely on January 18, 2011, 01:36:20 pm
don't jump!

good advice
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: JOPOTINTTI on January 18, 2011, 01:47:04 pm
Archery just needs a little dmg nerf on arrows (-2 dmg would be enough), the real problem is throwing. Throwers should get a new animation that would prevent them for magically picking axes out of their ass at machinegun rate. Also powerthrow should decrease accuracy just like powerdraw decreases archer accuracy. It's not normal to have people with 10 powerthrow and 1 throwing WPF and HIGH accuracy.
This is utter bullshit , want a screenie of my char naked , 10 pt 100 wpf, see ?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: bruce on January 18, 2011, 02:27:27 pm
The main problem is that there's way too many of them.

Because it's effective.

You can be the lousiest melee player ever, but if you have a spammable high damage projectile launcher... not a lot of effort required to do reasonably well. The only way people will stop doing it (unless they really really want to be a support ranged player) is if it stops providing more effect for less effort then melee.

Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Dekiri on January 18, 2011, 02:49:49 pm
It's funny how people always assume you can move faster than an arrow  :?

I have ATH 7 and light equipment, and in most cases I don't wear a shield any more. So whenever I approach archers I run around like a madman, running zigzag (and I do it right, I move farther than my body is wide, I am not one of those "shivering" but basically remaining on the same spot. And I don't jump!), and after a few seconds I recieve my first arrow into the shoulder, then the next comes into my stomach and I am dead. I reach archers in one of 5 cases, if they see me.

So again:

YOU CAN'T FUCKIN' DODGE ARROWS!

At least not good enough to call it a viable protection.

___________________________________________________________________________________________

If there is a class too popular it's a good clue it could be OP, at least concerning the difficulty to play it. And throwing is like 1 or 2 "free kills" per round, as you only need to throw into the enemy cluster, sooner or later you will hit someone. Pure meele builds don't have these easier kills, they always have to watch footwork, blocking, feinting, etc..

you can easily dodge arrows and even c-bow bolts unless the archer is VERY close to you. How do you think an archer fights another? It is not who shoots first wins, but constand dodging of the others arrows.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Joxer on January 18, 2011, 02:58:09 pm
I play an archer sometimes but also a dedicated unshielded pikeman. As pikeman I have learned that ranged classes aren't a problem. They kill me sometimes. However most often I get killed in a melee situation when I get hit by ranged, stunned and then killed by the melee guy. When there is no melee I find it relatively easy to stay out of the harms way. Am I just that good or are the rest of the players shitting us when they say you can't dodge ranged? :D
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Dekiri on January 18, 2011, 03:07:01 pm
No idea i think its just trying to "make a point" by claiming bullshit
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Kalam on January 18, 2011, 03:11:14 pm
Allow me to paint a picture depicting the standard round for my shieldless 2-hander.

I use my athletics to plant myself in a hidden spot, silently lying in wait for the enemies who are sure to come through this alley. My team mates catch up, a-bristle with weapons of all sorts.

What they don't expect is the sudden barrage of javelins, jarids, and axes that emerge from the shielders who turn the corner, decimating my team in a minute. Fearing for my life but tasting sweet revenge upon my tongue, I spy two other shielders hiding in a corner, apparently apart from the main throng. Licking my lips, I skulk behind them and slash one twice. He turns, still alive due to his armour and gods know what else.

And...chucks an axe in my face.

I whine.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Leshma on January 18, 2011, 03:17:16 pm
A week ago, while playing ninja I had no problem dodging flying shit. Maybe it's worse now, maybe archers got smarter.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Lanic0r on January 18, 2011, 03:18:39 pm
It's a living hell for a 2-hander, like myself, to get into melee on certain maps. First I have to endure the hailstorm of arrows to advance forward to the village and when I get there I have to dodge axes and other nasty shit thrown at me + the usual asshole who continues to aim his bow specifically at me. Almost like he got some personal hatred for me, stalking me across the whole damn map.

Should anything be nerfed? No. Archery, Xbowing and throwing is fine. Archery should get back their original animations imo, the current one looks like shit but that's a different topic.

The main problem is that there's way too many of them. Seems like everyone and their mother got throwing these days. And to change/force people out of there playstyle is hard if not impossible. I have really no idea on how to fix this issue.



I guess though, chadz could nerf the shit out of throwing and then stealth buff it up to its normal level. Making the overall majority of the throwing crowd swap to something else for abit.

Other then that, here's my usual reply to archers and throwers, ranged in general - Die in a fire you cowardly scumbags.
Its your own fault, you dont use shields although you are 2h. you could wear 3 shields!
Elmo loves you ;D
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Spawny on January 18, 2011, 03:20:22 pm
Allow me to paint a picture depicting the standard round for my shieldless 2-hander.

I use my athletics to plant myself in a hidden spot, silently lying in wait for the enemies who are sure to come through this alley. My team mates catch up, a-bristle with weapons of all sorts.

What they don't expect is the sudden barrage of javelins, jarids, and axes that emerge from the shielders who turn the corner, decimating my team in a minute. Fearing for my life but tasting sweet revenge upon my tongue, I spy two other shielders hiding in a corner, apparently apart from the main throng. Licking my lips, I skulk behind them and slash one twice. He turns, still alive due to his armour and gods know what else.

And...chucks an axe in my face.

I whine.

You shouldn't hit people with a torch and sideswings when they don't see you. Get a big sword, 1 overhead hit is enough.

Oh yeah, just run up to him. If he still has his throwing axe in throwing mode, you will BUMP him, giving you another free hit. If he doesn't, he now has a 1h melee weapon with crappy damage and reach.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: AssPunisher on January 18, 2011, 03:22:50 pm
A week ago, while playing ninja I had no problem dodging flying shit. Maybe it's worse now, maybe archers got smarter.

No, we score hits when we're not supposed to. I guess I played too much FPSs to notice that while others don't. I'm not exceptionally skilled archer but I shoot down cav without much problem and I don't bother to waste arrows on their horses anymore. On the other hand, if majority likes it so do I.

EDIT
There seems to be some archery changes in today's patch regarding accuracy so we'll see how that goes.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Nemeth on January 18, 2011, 03:29:40 pm
For those who say dodging arrows is impossible, I have an advice. Don't zig zag in a pattern. When I see 2h coming my way, zig zaging left-right-left-right, I can only smile, predict his every move and hit him easily. Also, get the feel how long it takes for an archer to draw the bow and shoot (make an archer and get him to reasonable level to get the hang of it or whatever), if you time your zig zaging right, archers will very rarely hit you. Smart 2h when closing the gap, will run straight to me and when he sees me draw the bow, he moves just the second I launch the arrow. It's very very hard to hit him that way.
I feel the biggest problem for ppl is not the gap closing, but once you engage in melee with another melee, you are pretty much sitting duck for any archer that decides to shoot you.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: bruce on January 18, 2011, 03:33:50 pm
once you engage in melee with another melee, you are pretty much sitting duck for any archer that decides to shoot you.

Exactly, and this is the time throwers/archers/crossbows are most terrifying. Shield or no shield, too (shield sometimes helps, of course, but often not so much).
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Lanic0r on January 18, 2011, 03:41:02 pm
For those who say dodging arrows is impossible, I have an advice. Don't zig zag in a pattern. When I see 2h coming my way, zig zaging left-right-left-right, I can only smile, predict his every move and hit him easily. Also, get the feel how long it takes for an archer to draw the bow and shoot (make an archer and get him to reasonable level to get the hang of it or whatever), if you time your zig zaging right, archers will very rarely hit you. Smart 2h when closing the gap, will run straight to me and when he sees me draw the bow, he moves just the second I launch the arrow. It's very very hard to hit him that way.
I feel the biggest problem for ppl is not the gap closing, but once you engage in melee with another melee, you are pretty much sitting duck for any archer that decides to shoot you.
Why you told them the secret?
Dont give nemeth any attention plz:D
The problem is that 2hs are so arogant and wont change their playstyle. Bad luck for you, the rest is developing!

Ok to sum up

1. Wait until archer launch the arrow, then zig-zag
2. Dont jump, otherwise you stuck for 0,5 sec.
3. Wear shields, for nonskilled players wodden shield. ( i know it doesent look fine :D, maybe chadz should redesign it to make it more beautiful)
4. Watch thorwer´s mode. If he leans backward he will throw his shit! (use your shield)
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Brutal on January 18, 2011, 03:43:23 pm
It's pretty hard as a thrower to hit an enemy dueling with a teammate, unless you don't care about TK.
You've to get really close and if the enemy is smart he will switch target and go for the thrower who is most of the time easier to kill.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Sean_Drew on January 18, 2011, 03:58:26 pm


3. Wear shields, for nonskilled players wodden shield. ( i know it doesent look fine :D, maybe chadz should redesign it to make it more beautiful)


That´s it.

If there are many projektiles in the air , wear Shield. Even if u have a 2h ! Use the shield to get near archer/thrower , put the shield away and attack. Would u go on a battlefield , with archers on the other side , and just walk around whistle a song ? No ! U would have a Shield , or even 2 !
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: The_Newer_Wind on January 18, 2011, 06:54:49 pm
you can easily dodge arrows and even c-bow bolts unless the archer is VERY close to you. How do you think an archer fights another? It is not who shoots first wins, but constand dodging of the others arrows.



Of course you can dodge arrows if archer is far, but let me ask you this, how do expect to kill a archer? Magically telporting behind them and hitting them, or do you have to walk up to them and hit them? Take a wild guess.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Malevolent_Warlord on January 18, 2011, 08:54:48 pm
Get a shield and stop bitching.

If I use my polearm or 2h-character and get shot by an arrow while fighting melee I instantly disengage and pull down my shield and switch to 1h(/2h) weapon and look around if I am too exposed and my overrall position on the field. Most likely I have missed enemy archers and I am their sole target.

Some other people might just blindly continue spamming and die after few arrows, because they want that peasant killed. After they are killed they come to forums and bitch and moan about archers.
Simple fact is that most people lack seriously in survival skills and have no idea of their surroundings.

I see it so often when I play my spearman character. Enemy comes and spamms me and tries to break my shield with a sword. I draw them to my friendlies. Enemy still keeps spamming my shield even though he is getting outnumbered... after few seconds they are dead. Zero skills, zero care for own survival.... dead. Its the same thing with 2h spammers who think they are the shit-elite. They don't pay attention and get killed. 

If u get a shield and pay attention to ur surroundings archers can only kill u if they outnumber and flank u.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Ronish on January 18, 2011, 11:07:59 pm
To many projectiles?

Buy a damn shield that has coverage.

Getting flanked by archers?

Why in the hell did your team let that happen, you deserve to die! muahahahaha....
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Punisher on January 18, 2011, 11:14:11 pm
To many projectiles?

Buy a damn shield that has coverage.


So everyone is forced to screw up their builds with useless shield points just to defend against archers? No other class requires special skill investements just to give you a chance to counter it.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Ashrik on January 18, 2011, 11:15:01 pm
If your build makes you die often, I don't see how fixing that is screwing anything up
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Korgoth on January 18, 2011, 11:15:13 pm
Why don't u whiners just try those classes urself?

No Offence but are you fucking retarded?

How the fuck does this solve the problem which the Original post states?

This just makes the problem worse...
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Gorath on January 18, 2011, 11:16:07 pm
So everyone is forced to screw up their builds with useless shield points just to defend against friendly archers?

And a telling indication of the views on melee "balance" when 1h/shielder builds are "useless".  Buff 1h/shields imo.  ;)
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Helrekkr on January 18, 2011, 11:18:23 pm
And a telling indication of the views on melee "balance" when 1h/shielder builds are "useless".  Buff 1h/shields imo.  ;)

You know what he meant;

Shield points are "useless" for a pure 2h build for example. Sure they help with archers, so not completely useless, hence the ""
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Punisher on January 18, 2011, 11:18:53 pm
For a 2H/Polearms guy shields are useless. I'm obviously not talking about 1H here. For example if I want to put points in shield I have to give up +3 agi gained from conversion (and I'm not saying I need 6 shield skill, if I put even 1 point in shield I don't have enough left to get +3 and increase WM/Ath).
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Joker86 on January 19, 2011, 12:06:49 am
you can easily dodge arrows and even c-bow bolts unless the archer is VERY close to you. How do you think an archer fights another? It is not who shoots first wins, but constand dodging of the others arrows.


To kill them, I HAVE to get very close to them! I am not doing those roof-to-roof battles over half the map, even though I use a pike. Its reach is still only 245cm.  :rolleyes:  :wink:

For those who say dodging arrows is impossible, I have an advice. Don't zig zag in a pattern. When I see 2h coming my way, zig zaging left-right-left-right, I can only smile, predict his every move and hit him easily. Also, get the feel how long it takes for an archer to draw the bow and shoot (make an archer and get him to reasonable level to get the hang of it or whatever), if you time your zig zaging right, archers will very rarely hit you. Smart 2h when closing the gap, will run straight to me and when he sees me draw the bow, he moves just the second I launch the arrow. It's very very hard to hit him that way.
I feel the biggest problem for ppl is not the gap closing, but once you engage in melee with another melee, you are pretty much sitting duck for any archer that decides to shoot you.

Of course I move randomly, I thought this is understood!

And the "move when he lets loose"-tactic still offers a 33% chance of being hit (when he releases you can either walk left or right or don't change your direction at all). And experienced archers counter this by simply waiting an additional second to release the arrow. Most players doing this tactic will fall for it.

And don't forget most archers take position on elevated places, so even if you don't have to walk up a ladder without shield (suicide) already a small hill slows you down severly.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: StanleyPain on January 19, 2011, 12:47:32 am
There's actually a simple solution to this. Having a % allowed of archers and throwers in the teams. Past this %, extra people see their bows/throwing weapons disabled. No need to nerf them more this way, and you won't see half of your team going archer anymore.

And only a small % of cav/2handers/sword and boarders/mothers/fathers/cousins/uncles/your dog....
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Mouse on January 19, 2011, 01:21:26 am
An OLD BOARD SHIELD has a requirement of ONE SKILL POINT and will block 200 points of damage with 26x60 coverage for a measly 4.5 weight. That is more than enough to get you where you need to be, at which point you can just drop the shield to let you move faster (and come back for it if needed).

If putting ONE SKILL POINT into shields is going to suddenly ruin your entire build and make it so you suck at the game, then you already suck at the game.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Gorath on January 19, 2011, 01:34:49 am
An OLD BOARD SHIELD has a requirement of ONE SKILL POINT and will block 200 points of damage with 26x60 coverage for a measly 4.5 weight. That is more than enough to get you where you need to be, at which point you can just drop the shield to let you move faster (and come back for it if needed).

If putting ONE SKILL POINT into shields is going to suddenly ruin your entire build and make it so you suck at the game, then you already suck at the game.

Word

To yer great aunt
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Joker86 on January 19, 2011, 02:06:48 am
And what about the inventory slot a shield takes?  :?
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Gorath on January 19, 2011, 02:14:36 am
And what about the inventory slot a shield takes?  :?

What about it?  As a pure 2her you need what?

Pike of Tears/Cookies
Axe or LawlerMaul
.....
.....


You get 2 freebie slots and that's if you plan to carry 2 2hers so you can counter every other melee out there (and cav with the lolswords).  On my 2her I chose throwing rather than a shield as my anti-archer device, had to put skill points into that too.  Works fine.  As a 2her you can carry a shield and now effectively have something to counter EVERYONE.

On my 1her I have to carry
Sword
Shield
Axe
Pike/blunt weapon if I want to have counters for melee, and then I'm fucked vs cav unless I choose a pike, which is about as beneficial as a 2her carrying a shield.

It's all tradeoffs.  Only archers really have no drawbacks.  As arrows are good vs anyone without a shield, other archers, horses/cav and their polearm/2her takes care of the rest.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Ashrik on January 19, 2011, 02:25:00 am
Infantry need to carry pikes or ranged to deal with calvary, ranged need to carry hand-to-hand weapons to deal with melee, and melee need to carry shields to deal with archery. But it's only unfair for melee. If you want to be awesome against everyone, it makes sense that you have to change something to do it
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: bruce on January 19, 2011, 02:30:35 am
It's really easy to shoot shielders these days, unless they're dedicated shielders with a huscarl. And of course, you can shoot anyone, shield or no shield, once they engage in melee.

Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Gorath on January 19, 2011, 02:44:09 am
It's really easy to shoot shielders these days, unless they're dedicated shielders with a huscarl.

This is a good thing.  Though I think the huscarl needs a big speed decrease tbh.  By dedicated shielders I assume you're talking someone with 4+ points in shield.  I got 7 currently and I prefer to use the brown heater shield (style baby) and I get shot all the time with it, which is a good thing for sure.  The huscarl though is still sadly pretty much the end-all-be-all of shields.  If it was a bit slower in melee we might see a bit more shield variety from shielders.  Kind of like the board shields.  Great arrow protection, slow as hell in melee combat.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: UrLukur on January 19, 2011, 02:46:54 am
I do just fine with knightly kite shield, then again, i attack people with my sword, not turtle up (6 shield skill, i don't know why).

But yeah, huscarl is too good.

Also, i like how projectile now bypass the forcefield, it's cool.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Gorath on January 19, 2011, 02:55:10 am
(6 shield skill, i don't know why).

lol, right?
That's how I feel about it now.  "Why did I bother to get more than the 3 points needed for my heater shield?"
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Ashrik on January 19, 2011, 03:06:01 am
Which shield is that tiny metal one that appears to erect a 360 degree projectile barrier? How many points do you need for that? (And has its apparent awesomeness changed since the patch?)

vvvvv Is that what you were talking about? Because I'm curious about it
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: UrLukur on January 19, 2011, 03:06:41 am
Which shield is that tiny metal one that appears to erect a 360 degree projectile barrier? How many points do you need for that?

No longer?
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Gorath on January 19, 2011, 03:15:35 am
Which shield is that tiny metal one that appears to erect a 360 degree projectile barrier? How many points do you need for that? (And has its apparent awesomeness changed since the patch?)

vvvvv Is that what you were talking about? Because I'm curious about it

Oh that's the buckler.  Those are stupid, I'm not a fan.  They're not as good as they were, but they still catch arrows they shouldn't.  My resoning?  If you could block an arrow with a buckler ON PURPOSE, opposed to sheer luck of the arrow being shot directly at the damned thing, you could have just caught the arrow with your bare hand.  So I say BS to bucklers.

No the one I was talking about is the "Heater Shield" it's brown, has the black lion thing on the front.  Looks like it's covered in leather?
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Snatch on January 19, 2011, 03:18:28 am
Get a shield you big babies.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: PhantomZero on January 19, 2011, 03:20:09 am
Too much shit flying through the air, Melee Class are getting it in the ass from all comers.

Does anyone have a solution as the balance of power has clearly shifted toward these classes ?

Maybe nerf archer damage and accuracy toward melee class and keep it the same for archer/archer engagement.

When the patch before last nerfed archery a bit, the battles were far more engaging for all classes imho.

Between archery and throwing, melee class can't swing a sword without getting a projectile to the face.

I am sorry I didn't read any other posts in this discussion. But the fact that this has gone to 4 pages indicates to me that you guys missed the point that this guy is retarded.

Also, get a shield. In fact, hire three hookers to carry a shield and then stand infront of you.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Gorath on January 19, 2011, 03:26:42 am
But the fact that this has gone to 4 pages indicates to me that you guys missed the point that this guy is retarded.

Actually if you decide to read the rest of the thread the OP was already dismissed and we're having our own conversation with each other about various things (such as the nature of shields when compared to each other, why 2hers putting points into shield/and or carrying a shield is fair or unfair, etc.).  Basically a typical thread hijacking.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Malevolent_Warlord on January 19, 2011, 04:13:14 am
No Offence but are you fucking retarded?

How the fuck does this solve the problem which the Original post states?

This just makes the problem worse...

U missed the whole point.

Projectiles do not bother me when I go 2h, 1h, polearm, cav or as an archer. I carry a shield for protection. Archers are the least of my problems.
2h-players who whine about archers just plain suck ass. They always go RAAAAGHHH CHAAAARGE KILLL ZIE PESANTS.... and then they are fucking dead.
If they were killed by projectiles they create projectile whinebitch thread.
If they are killed by horses they come here and bitch about horses.
Simple fact is that they made a mistake and got themselves killed. Plain and simple.

Now if u try archery/xbow/throwing urself u realise that when u see a guy who is facing u with a shield u know that u cannot hurt him with ranged weapons.

There is no problem....
Ranged weapons are in balance....
Skills that the players have are not in balance....
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Nemeth on January 19, 2011, 04:36:06 am
Now if u try archery/xbow/throwing urself u realise that when u see a guy who is facing u with a shield u know that u cannot hurt him with ranged weapons.

There is no problem....
Ranged weapons are in balance....
Skills that the players have are not in balance....

I dare to say, that you can take throwers off the list, since from my experience (heavy heather shield, shield 6 i think), they break the shield in like 4-5 hits, which with current rate of fire doesnt take more then few seconds. Also, dodging throwing weapons (same for xbows, but you shoot once, then you're forced to melee) at close range is much more difficult then dodging arrows due to the infinite aiming time.

EDIT: Also, low level shield is absolutely useless against throwers, so even if the whining threads about archery ends at some point, ppl will be still whining about throwers.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: TactiCol on January 19, 2011, 06:49:03 am
I am sorry I didn't read any other posts in this discussion. But the fact that this has gone to 4 pages indicates to me that you guys missed the point that this guy is retarded.

Also, get a shield. In fact, hire three hookers to carry a shield and then stand infront of you.

The guy is retarded ? Seriously, wtf are you talking about.

You don't know anything about me, certainly nowhere near enough to make those sorts of baseless assumptions about my intellect.

I won't respond in kind.

Suffice to say I have a shield but it doesn't change the fact that there were too many projectiles flying around, making the game less fun for melee as it is for every other class.

In the ideal battle map scenario, Archers should be taking care of other Archers and Cav. Melee should be able to brawl it out with mainly melee. Obviously alongside the odd cav, archer and thrower for good measure in more isolated random skirmishes.

In reality what happens is Archers attack Melee, Cav attack Melee, Throwers attack Melee and Melee attack Melee. It got so that on EU1 a couple of days ago, it became difficult to swing a weapon in battle without getting hammered with projectiles.  That's why I made the original post.

Individual archers can be dealt with using a little guile and cunning, the problem for me though as originally stated, was the amount of projectiles in the game.

Holding a reasonable and balanced view does not a retard make.

Another passenger for the failbus quite frankly. :)




Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: TactiCol on January 19, 2011, 07:05:04 am
U missed the whole point.

Projectiles do not bother me when I go 2h, 1h, polearm, cav or as an archer. I carry a shield for protection. Archers are the least of my problems.
2h-players who whine about archers just plain suck ass. They always go RAAAAGHHH CHAAAARGE KILLL ZIE PESANTS.... and then they are fucking dead.
If they were killed by projectiles they create projectile whinebitch thread.
If they are killed by horses they come here and bitch about horses.
Simple fact is that they made a mistake and got themselves killed. Plain and simple.

Now if u try archery/xbow/throwing urself u realise that when u see a guy who is facing u with a shield u know that u cannot hurt him with ranged weapons.

There is no problem....
Ranged weapons are in balance....
Skills that the players have are not in balance....
Utter Rubbish tbh.

I don't give a "flying" monkeys **** about dying in a game. :) It happens. I'm a big boy, I'll get over it quickly enough.

The original post did not mention anything about complaining about death. Even to the most dimwitted observer, the title could hardly have been more self explanatory.

Do yourself a favour, if you've nothing constructive to say, say nothing instead.

You can stay on the failbus until it reaches the terminus tbh, no charge. :)

Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Malevolent_Warlord on January 19, 2011, 10:55:43 am
Utter Rubbish tbh.

I don't give a "flying" monkeys **** about dying in a game. :) It happens. I'm a big boy, I'll get over it quickly enough.

The original post did not mention anything about complaining about death. Even to the most dimwitted observer, the title could hardly have been more self explanatory.

Do yourself a favour, if you've nothing constructive to say, say nothing instead.

You can stay on the failbus until it reaches the terminus tbh, no charge. :)

There it is " I don't give a "flying" monkeys **** about dying in a game. ". U should care about dying. Dead people don't swing.
So charge in and get hit by all the projectiles while chasing kills and then come bitch on the forums, because of too much projectiles? And when I say u need to protect urself u call me failbus and shit. Enough said.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: TactiCol on January 19, 2011, 11:13:12 am
If you are gonna serialise what I'm saying and try to take it out of context then don't even bother having a discussion with me. Learn to address people and don't be such an arrogant gobshite.

You're clearly an empty vessel making way too much noise imo.

<<< Dons headphones and sets bullshit filter to max.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Punisher on January 19, 2011, 11:16:29 am
An OLD BOARD SHIELD has a requirement of ONE SKILL POINT and will block 200 points of damage with 26x60 coverage for a measly 4.5 weight. That is more than enough to get you where you need to be, at which point you can just drop the shield to let you move faster (and come back for it if needed).

If putting ONE SKILL POINT into shields is going to suddenly ruin your entire build and make it so you suck at the game, then you already suck at the game.

For my build I have to give up 1 powerstrike or 1 weapon master to have 1 spare point for shield.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: AssPunisher on January 19, 2011, 01:10:30 pm
For my build I have to give up 1 powerstrike or 1 weapon master to have 1 spare point for shield.

Thats not much to be able to defend against ranged. I need to invest into 3 powerstrike and 100 WPF for 2h to be able to defend against melee.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: EponiCo on January 19, 2011, 02:31:44 pm
Exactly.
It's your choice.
I choose to make polearm/2h hybrid, with my slow infantry support weapons speed build outspams me, with sword I'm still a lot slower.
If you don't want to worry about ranged without investing, then I want the same speed as pure agi build without investing.

Individual archers can be dealt with using a little guile and cunning, the problem for me though as originally stated, was the amount of projectiles in the game.

Reduce ammo from throwers. 100% more problematic for me when I get close to melee, archers I can mostly ignore then, but there's little chance to avoid the 10 throwing axes you get in your back while fighting someone.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Dreakon_The_Destroyer on January 19, 2011, 05:51:01 pm
I loveeee when the 2hand or weak shielders come at me with my 8 heavy throwing axes. if the guy stands still long enough ill chuck 1 or 2 axes into him. i carry a shield just in case im outta axes and need to use my 2Hander. you CAN fight and kill throwers and archers. learn to dance around or invest in shield points. even if you die you cant win EVERYTIME. just use your head and learn some strategy instead of hating us throwers.

and yes you can dodge arrows! quit whinning. i do it all the time. juke them!
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Trikipum on January 19, 2011, 07:16:22 pm
Oh that's the buckler.  Those are stupid, I'm not a fan.  They're not as good as they were, but they still catch arrows they shouldn't.  My resoning?  If you could block an arrow with a buckler ON PURPOSE, opposed to sheer luck of the arrow being shot directly at the damned thing, you could have just caught the arrow with your bare hand.  So I say BS to bucklers.

No the one I was talking about is the "Heater Shield" it's brown, has the black lion thing on the front.  Looks like it's covered in leather?
That is is as stupid as saying that if a tennis player can catch a ball at 200 km/h with his racket then he could also catch it with his bare hand.....
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Vance on January 19, 2011, 07:35:50 pm
I say reduce throwers ammo or make them pull a cart to carry it! :P
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Gorath on January 19, 2011, 08:18:53 pm
That is is as stupid as saying that if a tennis player can catch a ball at 200 km/h with his racket then he could also catch it with his bare hand.....
(click to show/hide)

It's not plausible that the buckler is going to block those 6 arrows just shot at you.  You might get LUCKY and block one just by having your hand in the right place at the right time, but purposefully blocking an arrow with a buckler is completely implausible.
Title: Re: Too many projectiles
Post by: Tornkik on January 19, 2011, 08:19:22 pm
If you're not already an archer/thrower or any other kind of ranged person, you will most certainly end up with a x-bow.
Seems like too many people have them now.