Author Topic: Total War Hammer  (Read 63223 times)

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Offline Xant

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Re: Total War Hammer
« Reply #330 on: May 29, 2016, 04:54:49 am »
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How does this compare with Third Age for M2TW? Actually looks a bit worse at a glance.
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Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Total War Hammer
« Reply #331 on: May 29, 2016, 05:25:29 am »
-1
How does this compare with Third Age for M2TW? Actually looks a bit worse at a glance.

TATW is loads better.

By turn 100, you have the "Full Chaos Invasion" meaning that everyone allies up and fights hordes of chaos armies. It's stupid. Might leave my empire game. Killing Chaos army XX is getting old.

Ugh, I should have stayed away. Just knew it. Can't stand the lore and they force it right down your throats in the game. Sigh.
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Offline Leesin

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Re: Total War Hammer
« Reply #332 on: May 29, 2016, 07:45:44 am »
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How does this compare with Third Age for M2TW? Actually looks a bit worse at a glance.

Been a while since I played TATW so I don't remember the finer details, but I remember enough to know that these two are completely different aside from both being "Fantasy". Quality and finesse is always going to be in the hands of a well made mod that has been worked on for years, but this is a base vanilla game that is a lot different to Kingdoms and even though there are features dumbed down or completely non existant that I liked from older games, I am still having a lot of fun with what actually is there. This game offers great variety in units and it's not just basic "rock paper scissors", though it still has that element of course.

With the addition of some units doing different damage types, like poison damage ( debuffs enemies speed etc ), also magic damage, which can come from certain units themselves, this does add more dynamics in the "rocket paper scissor" decision making. This comes into play when you have units like Hexwraiths, who are actually quite OP cavalry in my experience, they are highly resistant to all damage apart from magic damage, so there is a lot more decision making to be done when units like that are on the battlefield, even if you might lack a unit that deals direct magic damage in melee, you might have a unit that does poison damage, so you could target the Hexwraith cavalry with them to slow them down, then use the spellcaster in your army ( if you have one ) to blast them with a couple of spells to do some decent damage, I think one of my Lords actually was able to do magic damage with his weapon, so that would be a counter too.

Like I said, it has the glaring negatives of all vanilla TW games ( IMO anyway ), battle pace is too fast so in multiplayer especially it can some times make planning and decision making a lot more chaotic and less tactical unless you are a korean autist. However at least the singleplayer is easily modded and I have already done so, seeing a much nicer pace and being able to take more notice of the finer details in battle. With mods this will only improve and I do hope devs tweak vanilla for the Multiplayers sake, a lot of people are complaining that the pacing is way too fast with battles ending way too quickly so they should tweak it.

Plus for me this is the the most stable and smoothest release I've ever seen from a Total War game lol. Pirate it or wait for it to be on sale in the future if you're really not sure, but I would urge you to at least try it out as I wasn't sure myself if I would like it or not, yet I was pleasantly surprised. The campaign needs tweaking too as anders pointed out, I think the campaign itself is also a bit too fast paced and feels a bit "meh" some times, the Chaos Invasion happens too soon, but in both my Campaigns the Chaos Invasion has been laughable, they're getting rekt way too easily.

Offline Tom Cruise

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Re: Total War Hammer
« Reply #333 on: May 29, 2016, 02:35:39 pm »
+1
TATW is loads better.

By turn 100, you have the "Full Chaos Invasion" meaning that everyone allies up and fights hordes of chaos armies. It's stupid. Might leave my empire game. Killing Chaos army XX is getting old.

Ugh, I should have stayed away. Just knew it. Can't stand the lore and they force it right down your throats in the game. Sigh.


So you're mad because you hate the lore of the fantasy universe that drives the game and gameplay that you are playing, but you think the game is good..? U wot? That's the whole setting dude. Good vs evil. Always had been, even before The End Times. So why are you griping when everyone allies up to fight a huge, evil threat? And in what way does the lore get shoved down your throat?

And you ranted earlier about what you hate about the lore (and kind of seems general hate for the universe itself honestly lol), yet you bought a game that was centered in that universe..? U wot 2.0?
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Offline Butan

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Re: Total War Hammer
« Reply #334 on: May 29, 2016, 02:47:29 pm »
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As a casual Warhammer fan who didnt read any books about it, I can (barely) understand why you would hate the setting used for a game that is ironically enjoyable. I've heard many times that they kinda fucked up the lore with the newest books  :(
Being able to separate the two is a proof of rationality I would say! You can hate the setting and like the game, it would be way worse if because you dont like a book about something, you insta-hate a very good game made around it  :)

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Total War Hammer
« Reply #335 on: May 29, 2016, 03:12:53 pm »
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As a casual Warhammer fan who didnt read any books about it, I can (barely) understand why you would hate the setting used for a game that is ironically enjoyable. I've heard many times that they kinda fucked up the lore with the newest books  :(
Being able to separate the two is a proof of rationality I would say! You can hate the setting and like the game, it would be way worse if because you dont like a book about something, you insta-hate a very good game made around it  :)

Up until about turn 70, the game is good. Feels like Attila, but not to where it's a everyone allies to fight Attilla. After Archaeon does his thing, 90% of the map either Allies, or Non-Agression, or generally likes each other. It losses the TW feel and it's more of a reaction/TD to chaos armies.

Here's a more spiteful version of the end times lore:
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_End_Times#Setting_the_stage
You can read the battle rules for AoS if you wish, but it's pretty bad(for a game, not lore). (Field as many miniatures as you wish, no limit, so hope the other guy doesn't have more than you...)
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Offline Tom Cruise

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Re: Total War Hammer
« Reply #336 on: May 29, 2016, 03:57:59 pm »
+1
Up until about turn 70, the game is good. Feels like Attila, but not to where it's a everyone allies to fight Attilla. After Archaeon does his thing, 90% of the map either Allies, or Non-Agression, or generally likes each other. It losses the TW feel and it's more of a reaction/TD to chaos armies.

Here's a more spiteful version of the end times lore:
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_End_Times#Setting_the_stage
You can read the battle rules for AoS if you wish, but it's pretty bad(for a game, not lore). (Field as many miniatures as you wish, no limit, so hope the other guy doesn't have more than you...)


So unless it's just RNG, but when Chaos invaded the armies that spawned were actually quite scary with a wide variety of units such as chariots, trolls, chosen, etc. Not just your run of the mill marauders or missle cav. And when you have multiple armies of high tier units, with silver/gold experiance, it's a weeeeeee bit of a threat. So while it didn't really effect me directly, because I was somewhat far away and they had to go through my allies to get to me, but it was imminent that they would reach me, for my allies were getting swamped. Out maned and out gunned. So everyone, including myself, joining up as allies put balance back into the war. It was a back and forth of my allies having their settlements turned to ruins, some of our armies losing, and some of their armies losing. It was quite fun actually, there really was no clear winner, even though the forces of Chaos have these huge hosts of powerful units. But that is the point you are missing. If it weren't for the allegiances, people would get steamrolled. And again I'm not sure about you, but a bunch of factions have been wiped out in my game, so really it's only a handful of allies, whether they have some land and be powerful or not, that are teaming up.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/05/19/total-war-warhammer-review/
"None of this diminishes the fact that I’ve had a wonderful time playing Total War: Warhammer and am far from finished with it. But the more I play, the more convinced I become that this is a game that makes a devil’s bargain. It feels exactly the way a Warhammer-themed Total War game should feel, and creates tons of dramatic battles and storylines over the course of each campaign. But to reliably generate all that excitement and tension, it secretly disconnects many of the strategic systems that hold good Total War games together. So do you want a good Warhammer game, or a good Total War game? Because I’m less and less convinced that you’ll find both inside Total Warhammer."

This. You can't have both really, but is that a bad thing?. In a world like WARhammer, that is pretty much solely based off of brutal fighting and some real grim and dark shit, you bet you gun' get sum crazy, fantasy fightin'. So of course it's going to lose some of the grand scheme of a total war with less of a campaign theme, such as the economy, diplomacy, and what not. CA stated this very early on that is was going to be more battle focused. Are you gunna go out to eat and order some fish, knowing that you don't like seafood? If you don't like a large proportion of the lore really, going in knowing it was about that,  and going in knowing it was gunna be filled with dick kickin' fights, why did you bother buying it? Or not do more reasearch and QA on it before buying it (even though there a plethora of sources to view even before the games release). So again. What are you getting at?


This being the first really unique total war, delving into fantasy, and it being my favorite universe, I think they did an incredible job so far in my playing of it. They are sticking true to lore and world of Warhammer with meticulous detail. And I for one cannot wait for future content. Just hopefully it's not $7 for a unit pack  :P
 


Nerd edit: Also do any of you chunkledorfs know if the magic reserve pool reserved is shared among everyone in your army? I.E I have yet to have two magic users in an army so it would seem kind of pointless to have two or more of them in an army.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 04:07:40 pm by Tom Cruise »
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Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Total War Hammer
« Reply #337 on: May 29, 2016, 04:06:16 pm »
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So unless it's just RNG, but when Chaos invaded the armies that spawned were actually quite scary with a wide variety of units such as chariots, trolls, chosen, etc. Not just your run of the mill marauders or missle cav. And when you have multiple armies of high tier units, with silver/gold experiance, it's a weeeeeee bit of a threat. So while it didn't really effect me directly, because I was somewhat far away and they had to go through my allies to get to me, but it was imminent that they would reach me, for my allies were getting swamped. Out maned and out gunned. So everyone, including myself, joining up as allies put balance back into the war. It was a back and forth of my allies having their settlements turned to ruins, some of our armies losing, and some of their armies losing. It was quite fun actually, there really was no clear winner, even though the forces of Chaos have these huge hosts of powerful units. But that is the point you are missing. If it weren't for the allegiances, people would get steamrolled. And again I'm not sure about you, but a bunch of factions have been wiped out in my game, so really it's only a handful of allies, whether they have some land and be powerful or not, that are teaming up.

Oh I'm fighting the same armies. Doing the Bulk of the work myself. Only Kislev got stomped(and maybe greenskins as alot of that land is ruins.) I Invaded Norsca  and razed their settlements, by doing that, AI fails HARD. took them 10 turns just to figure out how to GET OVER HERE again. It's just annoying having to fight basically the same army compositions again and again and again and again and....ad infinitum. The battles are fun, but repetitive.

Oh and Archaeon was weak mode. Course, I do control a pretty much entirely united empire save Hochland and a beat of Ostland.
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Offline Leesin

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Re: Total War Hammer
« Reply #338 on: May 29, 2016, 05:33:08 pm »
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In my Empire campaign I wasn't even aware of the first invasion, it was seriously that lack luster and failed hard. The second Chaos invasion barely cut through towards me and I just picked it apart with my armies, it was easy. In my Orc campaign there is not a chance on earth that I will ever see the Chaos invasions, the second has come around and I am pretty sure those bordering Chaos up north are still alive and kicking. I don't mind the scenario, but it does feel very lack luster. They turn up too early IMO and they're just a difficult part of the game to balance. If you make them too strong, they could turn up and instantly wipe everyone out who has already been fighting each other for a while, but that would at least make it more like "Oh shit, Chaos has arrived" but if you make them too weak, like they are now IMO, then they just get stomped, it seems like the AI just gets buddy buddy with everyone else and they smash Chaos to bits.

I was never a fan of the "Invasion horde" scenarios in Total War games anyway, I felt it killed the freedom of choices in TW games, less decision making and creating your own history. Would have preferred none of this end times scenario with the Chaos invasion and have just seen them be a standing Faction from the beginning, which would see them either flourish or die like any other Faction without any scripting. But I imagine the real lore hardcore Warhammer fans probably wouldn't like that either.

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Total War Hammer
« Reply #339 on: May 29, 2016, 09:43:05 pm »
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In my Empire campaign I wasn't even aware of the first invasion, it was seriously that lack luster and failed hard. The second Chaos invasion barely cut through towards me and I just picked it apart with my armies, it was easy. In my Orc campaign there is not a chance on earth that I will ever see the Chaos invasions, the second has come around and I am pretty sure those bordering Chaos up north are still alive and kicking. I don't mind the scenario, but it does feel very lack luster. They turn up too early IMO and they're just a difficult part of the game to balance. If you make them too strong, they could turn up and instantly wipe everyone out who has already been fighting each other for a while, but that would at least make it more like "Oh shit, Chaos has arrived" but if you make them too weak, like they are now IMO, then they just get stomped, it seems like the AI just gets buddy buddy with everyone else and they smash Chaos to bits.

I was never a fan of the "Invasion horde" scenarios in Total War games anyway, I felt it killed the freedom of choices in TW games, less decision making and creating your own history. Would have preferred none of this end times scenario with the Chaos invasion and have just seen them be a standing Faction from the beginning, which would see them either flourish or die like any other Faction without any scripting. But I imagine the real lore hardcore Warhammer fans probably wouldn't like that either.

But that's the thing. There's plenty of lore out there just for that. Anyways, I'm glad i'm not the only one who feels Lackluster about chaos or the "horde" invasions thing.
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Re: Total War Hammer
« Reply #340 on: May 29, 2016, 10:36:40 pm »
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Seems how the chaos invasions go are pretty random, in my game chaos are razing everything, and the lesser chaos tribes capturing settlements all the way down to my capital (im using the settle anywhere mod). Fought all the chaos legendary lords in a matter of 3-4 turns in that valley  :shock:

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Offline [ptx]

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Re: Total War Hammer
« Reply #341 on: May 29, 2016, 10:44:27 pm »
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The Settle Anywhere mod must be what's changing the balance in your game. Chaos tribes are able to field a lot of troops, even whilst only owning a couple of shitty settlements in Norsca, due to their tiny unit upkeep and generally large income. Being able to occupy southern human settlements must make them capable of fielding a ridiculous amount of troops.

Finished my Empire campaign, owning pretty much anything that i could own, with the greenskins/undead/all chaos factions destroyed. Now trying to succeed in a Chaos campaign. First attempt was a failure, doing much better in my 2nd attempt, but realized too late that i have made a mistake with how i subjugated the Norsca tribes. Protip: make the tribes your vassals, as you wake them, otherwise they'll keep fighting among themselves and declaring wars on factions you don't want to fight just yet.

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Re: Total War Hammer
« Reply #342 on: May 29, 2016, 10:49:48 pm »
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The Settle Anywhere mod must be what's changing the balance in your game. Chaos tribes are able to field a lot of troops, even whilst only owning a couple of shitty settlements in Norsca, due to their tiny unit upkeep and generally large income. Being able to occupy southern human settlements must make them capable of fielding a ridiculous amount of troops.

Finished my Empire campaign, owning pretty much anything that i could own, with the greenskins/undead/all chaos factions destroyed. Now trying to succeed in a Chaos campaign. First attempt was a failure, doing much better in my 2nd attempt, but realized too late that i have made a mistake with how i subjugated the Norsca tribes. Protip: make the tribes your vassals, as you wake them, otherwise they'll keep fighting among themselves and declaring wars on factions you don't want to fight just yet.

I dont mind it though, first time around (without the mod) I didnt get to fight them either. The only settlements they have occupied are the northern mountains, a nice chokepoint for my dwarfs  :)
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Re: Total War Hammer
« Reply #343 on: May 30, 2016, 12:44:23 pm »
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So Chaos is like the Huns in Attila? Not such a fan of that. The relentless free Hunnic Doomstacks and the terrible way the game blocked expansion after a certain point killed my interest in it.

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Re: Total War Hammer
« Reply #344 on: May 30, 2016, 01:16:07 pm »
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Actually haven't played Atilla. Chaos holds no settlements, instead builds infrastructure in their "Hordes". You get income from fighting and raiding, as well as boost your own growth. In the campaign, you first have to subjugate the Norsca tribes, then, with them providing plenty of support by sending stack after stack of Marauders down south, you can go and wage war on the Empire and other goody factions.