Author Topic: Fetih 1453 (Fall of Constantinople)  (Read 12778 times)

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Offline HarunYahya

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Re: Fetih 1453 (Fall of Constantinople)
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2012, 10:58:35 am »
+2
Yes, of course, there were no pogroms or ethnic cleansings or mass deportations in the territory that is today Turkey in the 19th and 20th centuries. It was all just a multicultural dream of tolerance. After all, there are still christians in former Ottoman territories today, yes? Just like the benevolent European imperialist powers didn't try to convert the local populace of the middle east.
Obviously European colonialism was totally fucking tolerant, because hey, there's still muslims there today. I'm glad you managed to realize how awesome and ok it was for Europeans to bring modern infrastructure and technology to your decaying lands. You're welcome. /sarcasm
And Turks seem to fucking love the EU, given the ridiculous number of them leaving their country to emigrate there. Of course a lot like to pretend they are doing so as some kind of colonists, mostly the young second generation ones, because it's more mollifying to their pride than saying their parents fled their shitty country in order to seek better lives.
Yeah because Europeans didn't destroy Mayan , Incan and Native American civilizations they got destroyed by Lightnings from Zeus's ass.
They already had Christianity in Americas no one tried to convert them there were no missionaries or shit...no one massacred those great civilizations with firearms where they shoot arrows...
/sarcasm
Grow the fuck up , you are French look what you have done to North Africa why do you think there are shitloads of Arabs in Marseille ?
Blaming other nations for shits you read in wikipedia is the simplest thing to do...
About the immigrants in Europe ,Germany invited Turks to rebuild their country after WW2 , unlike your fail nation Germans stood and fight. They lost the battle but they didn't surrender their capital in few days.
Turks in Germany is the main part of Turks in Europe , others are just normal i count 80 million Turks in Turkey idk how many Turks u got in France ...
As a proud Turk , i say a big FUCK YOU to European Union and butthurt kids who still mad at Turks.

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Fetih 1453 (Fall of Constantinople)
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2012, 11:15:02 am »
-1
Fuck you you retarded cunt. Go open a history book and stop pretending you're a victim of Europeans while your own exploitative and expansionist empire was just peaches and cream. So tired of you fucking hypocrites. And then Euro countries open their doors to your people, they are still painted as evil opressors just trying to exploit the poor. I don't even want to imagine the ammount of racist and ethnic superiority propaganda you would be spouting if you had a sizeable immigration of a different culture to your country, considering how much you already spout right now.
There are a shitload of "arabs" in Marseille because the "arabs" speak french and immigrated to get better paying jobs. The idea that muslim immigrants rebuilt the country for their evil masters who were lazing around is just retarded propaganda by people who emmigrated decades afterwards in order to justify why they had a right to be there. How many are descendents of those people? What was the proportion of immigrant workers?
I'm not even getting into WW2 with your moronic ass. As a proud Frenchman I say FUCK YOU to Turks who are still mad at Euros that their backwards piece of shit empire disentegrated because of their own incompetence.
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Offline Bobthehero

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Re: Fetih 1453 (Fall of Constantinople)
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2012, 11:23:31 am »
+1
The Euro did not genocided the Indians, so to speak, they infected with diseases, and most of the time (pox infected sheets springs to mind) it wasn't done on purpose.

Now since this is Turks being Turks being Turks proving once again that Turks are Turks, the only logical answer is the Bresilian laugh and the mention of hte Armenians.

So: uheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuhev Armenians uheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuhe
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Offline Vingnir the Wanderer

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Re: Fetih 1453 (Fall of Constantinople)
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2012, 11:36:24 am »
0
Congrats one and all, you've just provided a perfect example why ALL religion, and national pride, is complete horseshit, and the primary cause of the murder and misery of millions, for generation after generation, millenia after millenia.

lol.  At least your only talking, and not stabbing/shooting/bombing each other....  :rolleyes:

Should all have a beer together and tell your governments and religious leaders to go jump off a cliff.

Sorry to interrupt, just trying to interject some sanity. 

One of these days maybe we will evolve, neither East or west should be bragging about shit, both sides should be ashamed of being nothing more than baboons with a long history of insularism, selfishness, and murderous intent.

Ah, but it is the curse of man, as we sit here, all playing a game pretending to murder each other with sharpened sticks.  As if glorious battles where anything more than organized murder.  As if cultures are anything more than a way to identify someone as an outsider, dehumanize them, and then treat them like shit.

Human pride, religion, nationalism,  its all just a sign that we've not got much further than 2 troops of baboons beating each other over the head with a thigh bone.

See ya on the killing fields, i'm guilty too.




Offline Oberyn

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Re: Fetih 1453 (Fall of Constantinople)
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2012, 11:39:42 am »
+1
You only think this way because of very recent developments like television, telephone, radio, the airplane, and most importantly the internet. Before that, your world was basically restricted to your family, your neighborhood, your city, your country, in that order. That's not even going into man's collective instinct that has been reinforced for thousands of years in pack based hierarchies. Why? Because it worked. If they existed and propagated, it is because they were more effective than their counterparts, in a purely darwinian sense.
The crazy technological progression as far as as distribution of information goes in the last 100 years alone is fucking mindblowing. We're still trying to deal with it with all the lizard brain instinctive baggage that makes humans...humans. Physically, instinctually, emotionally we're no different from any other homo sapiens that has existed for hundreds of thousands of years. Instead of looking down on them as backwards retarded apes that just didn't know better, we should be trying to understand the mechanisms that drove them to addopt those forms of socialization. They're basically us, under different circumstances, as far back as recorded history goes, and much further.
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Offline HarunYahya

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Re: Fetih 1453 (Fall of Constantinople)
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2012, 01:03:04 pm »
+1
I don't give a fuck , im sick of retarded snob european my old friends who blame every fucking nation while thinking their own nation is clean as god's ass...
Oberyn ofc arabs immigrated to france just to have better paying jobs.
France didn't fuck up northern african states , no you didn't colonize and assimilate them these are all rumours of few drunk my old friends...
And yeah Indians died cuz of sickness...Whole fucking continent get the same sickness at the same time while murricans survive...strange...

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Fetih 1453 (Fall of Constantinople)
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2012, 01:17:33 pm »
+1
I don't give a fuck , im sick of retarded snob european my old friends who blame every fucking nation while thinking their own nation is clean as god's ass...
Oberyn ofc arabs immigrated to france just to have better paying jobs.
France didn't fuck up northern african states , no you didn't colonize and assimilate them these are all rumours of few drunk my old friends...
And yeah Indians died cuz of sickness...Whole fucking continent get the same sickness at the same time while murricans survive...strange...
If you read more carefully, he isn't exactly denying that europeans fucked shit up.

Also, american indians didn't die out, they just lost a large part of their population. And, yes, that is how newly introduced diseases work, europeans had developed immunity to those long ago, unlike the natives. Same thing happened in South Africa, after colonists appeared there.

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Fetih 1453 (Fall of Constantinople)
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2012, 01:31:31 pm »
+2
I don't give a fuck , im sick of retarded snob european my old friends who blame every fucking nation while thinking their own nation is clean as god's ass...

Oh the fucking irony. So many euros going around the forums vomiting disgusting supremacist propaganda. So unlike the humble and realistic turks. Truly I am chastized.
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Offline Christo

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Re: Fetih 1453 (Fall of Constantinople)
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2012, 01:36:29 pm »
-1
Good point there, Oberyn.

Ancalimon the TW forum legend, Safavid our forum legend, and now this guy.

just lol
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Offline Ronin

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Re: Fetih 1453 (Fall of Constantinople)
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2012, 02:10:26 pm »
0
I suggest addin custom titles to Oberyn and Koyama. Pick what you want guys:

"euroeuroeuroeuroeuroeuroeuroeuro"

"turkturkturkturkturkturkturkturkturk"


Edit add-on: It's true that more than half of the america nations' population are eliminated with eurasian diseases. It's due to the civilization difference. Simple logic:
-Europeans lived very close, many diseases arise, those that are strong lived and became immune
-America Nations lived more like seperated rather than huge colonies, diseases never had an opportunity to became that much of a lethal force, the rest... is you know what happened

Any yeah, besides that europeans had much more experience in the war and it's practices than native americans. Also more technology and stuff, including horses and firearms if I am not mistaken. Americans even fall for the cheapest and lowest tricks of europeans, that they never had a history to learn from.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 02:17:17 pm by Ronin »
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Offline Joker86

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Re: Fetih 1453 (Fall of Constantinople)
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2012, 02:49:05 pm »
+1
I think it is entirely immature to claim that your nation was always the Utopia humanity was always looking for, the rest of the world just didn't realize it.

Every bigger nation, every single one, did something really bad in history. Look what Spain did to the Maya and Inca. France, England, Portugal and the Netherlands were the biggest colonial powers only a little bit more than a century ago. No need to mention the connection between Germany, Italy, Japan and a few smaller countries like Romania and Croatia. Russia had Katyn, opressed half of Europe with its system for half a century and they even opressed the jews after the second world war. Always remember what China did to Nepal. And in Australia, the poulation used to have dark skin...

It's only the very small und unimportant countries, where you won't find some major misdeeds, not because the people living there were so friendly and caring, it's only because there never was the opportunity to do something bad.

I would like to know: what do you Turk fanboys think about what happened to the Armenians?
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline HarunYahya

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Re: Fetih 1453 (Fall of Constantinople)
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2012, 07:29:30 am »
+2
Nah man i don't care about what turks did what french did who killed most who conquered most who's better who's worse , all im saying is i hate that fucked up biased point of view .
There is a medieval movie made by turks which is about the magnificient part of turkish history , conquer of istanbul . It is a very big thing in Ottoman history one empire falls while another one rises yeah it shows ottoman glorious while it shows byzantine shatterering but that is a fucking truth.
Byzantine was falling apart thats why Ottomans attacked in the first place the battle was like 100.000 Ottoman soldiers vs 10.000 Byzantines (Includes help from church and italian states) Byzantine was just a city state , powerless remains of once a great empire and when they refused to pay the huge amount of tax , it gave Mehmed the second  a reason to attack.This conquest is written in Quran that's why Sultan Mehmed  was so anxious to finish off Byzantine . There is no "glorious" or "powerful" way to show Byzantine Empire in that movie because they weren't glorious or powerful.Pope was offering help from catholic states in return of Orthodox Church joining the Pope and orthodox people of Constantinople weren't happy about it. After the conquest, Sultan Mehmed the second (Who earned the Conqueror and The Caeser of Rum titles after) declared that the orthodox citizens would be remained as orthodox without any pressures or such shit (Yet he converted Hagia Sophia to mosque trololol) that decleration prevented any upcoming rebellions .
This movie is about it .
Without watching it , without knowing a fuck about historical background of conquest of istanbul , calling this movie a propoganda tool is just too much shitstorm that i couldn't handle.
I think it is entirely immature to claim that your nation was always the Utopia humanity was always looking for, the rest of the world just didn't realize
That immaturity is the reason of war in human history for 6000 years.Nor you or i can change it , it's your nature.USA still attacks Iraq to "Bring democracy and civilization" they brang Burger King and Starbucks to Iraq hurray...21st century but same shit for thousands of years...
I would like to know: what do you Turk fanboys think about what happened to the Armenians?
I deny that was a genocide , a country who fights with British Empire, French , Greeks and Italians at the same time doesn't have time to genocide a population.Armenians were causing rebellions , trying to provoke people against Turks and let them accept living under French mandate because French promised them a free Armenia.Lots of the rebellions they made were massacres and Turkey didn't have enough force to defend against inner problems while they fight the whole damn europe therefore Turks decided to exile them to east.Many Armenians are killed during the migration.
I think it was planned i mean they probably meant to let Armenians die because they didn't have force to suppress their rebellions so they just let nature do the killings , it is a sad part in history but it is far more different than a Genocide .If the  what einstein made  , starting a war to kill civil people in gas rooms and make experiments on them is called genocide , banning rebellions and leaving them to death while you try to defend your lands against British Empire , France , Greece and Italy is not genocide.I do agree it is a cruel thing and a very fucked up decision to make but it is not same or close to einstein's genocide against Jews.It is an indirect mass murder or massacre which is really disguasting but in war every fucked up shit happens...
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 08:06:32 am by koyama »

Offline Ronin

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Re: Fetih 1453 (Fall of Constantinople)
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2012, 02:12:49 pm »
0
I do mainly agree with you koyama. Ruling an empire, country, kingdom etc requires the leader to do evil deeds. Which is why there is no glory in it. So, such a movie should better be focused on the historical events and stay objective rather than reflecting which side is glorious while the other is unglerious. This is called propoganda.

Also, there is an indie movie-ish, about the battle of mohacs made by the losing side. It is a movie made using medieval 2 total war. So there's no such thing preventing greeks to do a fall of constantinople movie, if they truly want.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 02:16:08 pm by Ronin »
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Seems the fascists are gaining ground once again in UKR... right vving politics is SO bad for the general populace but STILL in times of trouble the uneducated turn to them for help, simply because they are so amoral they vvill supply those vvilling to fight vvith vveapons rather than knovvledge.

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Offline Joker86

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Re: Fetih 1453 (Fall of Constantinople)
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2012, 05:18:05 pm »
0
I deny that was a genocide , a country who fights with British Empire, French , Greeks and Italians at the same time doesn't have time to genocide a population.

[...]

I think it was planned i mean they probably meant to let Armenians die because they didn't have force to suppress their rebellions so they just let nature do the killings , it is a sad part in history but it is far more different than a Genocide .

Following quotes from here

Quote
The Armenian Genocide (Armenian: Հայոց Ցեղասպանություն, Armenian pronunciation: [hɑjotsʰ tsʰɛʁɑspɑnutʰjun]), also known as the Armenian Holocaust, the Armenian Massacres and, by Armenians, as Meds Yeghern (Մեծ Եղեռն, Armenian pronunciation: [mɛts jɛˈʁɛrn], the Great Calamity or Great Crime) was the systematic killing of the Armenian population of the Ottoman Empire during and just after World War I.

Quote
It is widely acknowledged to have been one of the first modern genocides, as scholars point to the organized manner in which the killings were carried out to eliminate the Armenians, and it is the second most-studied case of genocide after the Holocaust. The word genocide was coined in order to describe these events.

Summary:

I deny that was a genocide

Quote
The word genocide was coined in order to describe these events.

 :wink:


But I guess in Turkey you get some other information than in the rest of the world.

And yes, Wikipedia still has got the reputation of beinga doubtful source, but I bet there are many real books and academic treatises about the topic. And no, I don't think that the rest of the world wants to defame Turkey for some obscure reason. You did what you did. And it happened during the reign of the Ottoman empire.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 05:21:13 pm by Joker86 »
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Vingnir the Wanderer

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Re: Fetih 1453 (Fall of Constantinople)
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2012, 10:38:47 pm »
+4
Denial, and the ability to compartmentalize an extreme injustice, based on a personal want of a justified history and limited information, rather than the ability to question and admit fallibility, is what scares the rest of the world about your culture, and why the EU doesnt want an association.

The only reason there was ANY question in the western world, was because of Turkey's strategic position, and relative secularism compared to the rest of the Muslim world, and what that meant to international in-the-moment diplomacy

Call it whatever you want, but the term denial says alot about ones ability to dismiss, repeat, and wash ones hands of the massacre of millions.

and by the way, I'm american, I'm of euro background, and i'm the first one that will tell you, that yes, The native americans in North and south america, were victims of genocide. Anyone saying differently, isnt comfortable with the idea of bieng an occupier, or comfortable enough to live with their forefathers actual history, without romanticising it into acceptability.

The fact that you pointed that out, and then denied the Armenian genocide, is self-serving in rewriting your perception of your ancestors the way YOU would have liked it to be thus affecting your perception of self.

The same arguements you made about the Armenians, I could make about the Native Americans, and the perpetuation of the United States, Spain, and Mexico,  but that would be ludicrous.

your statement of 'this is the hard things you have to do to rule an Empire', just shows that the 'Empire' should have never existed in the first place.  PEOPLE are more important, than any classist empire.

I sincerely hope you dont turn away from my statement as an insult, like i said, I acknowledge the sins of my forfathers, the world is waiting for you to acknowledge the sins of yours...\

Humans, West and EAST, have a history of bieng dirty selfish little bastards.  Admit it, and find value in the idea, that YOU will be better than that.

Trust me you'll feel better, and you'll be right.  Romantic national identity, is a very dangerous repetition that often results in continued injustice.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 11:11:23 pm by Vingnir the Wanderer »