Agincourt

[Thucydides]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3997HZuWjk

for people who think longbow can kill plated knights

[Dravic]

Ever heard of skill needed to make good plate armor? You know, this one was made in modern times. Plate used by knights were sometimes better sometimes worse

[Thucydides]

Ever heard of skill needed to make good plate armor? You know, this one was made in modern times. Plate used by knights were sometimes better sometimes worse

yes some plate were badly made and shattered when struck. However we aren't talking about shoddy made plate vs longbow, we're talking about plate in general.Plus, i am willing to be that a coat of plates would have a similar effect, and those were widely avaliable to knights by the 12th century.

[Joxer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3997HZuWjk

for people who think longbow can kill plated knights

  did you even watch that? He clearly says that this was the type that was used in Vernuill (!?). If you don't know the significance of that then let me enlighten you. This was the first time the milanese steel was used on the field. Agincourt etc. were way before that and this was that one development in steel technology that made the longbow much less efficient. It was the milanese lombard cavalry that used this. For the first time you could easily protect most of the rider and the horse because the steel was much lighter than what came before that which was either really shit quality steel or iron.

[edit to add] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Verneuil

[[ptx]]

Haven't you guys come to a conclusion here already? Come on, hurry up!

[Thucydides]

did you even watch that? He clearly says that this was the type that was used in Vernuill (!?). If you don't know the significance of that then let me enlighten you. This was the first time the milanese steel was used on the field. Agincourt etc. were way before that and this was that one development in steel technology that made the longbow much less efficient. It was the milanese lombard cavalry that used this. For the first time you could easily protect most of the rider and the horse because the steel was much lighter than what came before that which was either really shit quality steel or iron.

[edit to add] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Verneuil

"for those who think longbows could kill plated knights"

not "why agincourt was lost"

however, the coat of plates were of ample protection at the time. Frankly it could easily stop a longbow shot at any range except point blank. Agincourt was lost because of the terrain advantage the british had, and the dumb as rocks military ability of the french. Who charges into an area that restricts your field of movement when you have superiority in cav and numbers? They should have starved the british, but like Pompey at Pharsalus they would rather have a decisive victory than a certain one, honor over strategy.

[Joxer]

Yes exactly. That type of a plate armor didn't even excist at the time of agincourt. After verneuil (!?) though we see english getting owned more and more. So battles before this the longbow was hugely effective and after this not so much.

[Thucydides]

Yes exactly. That type of a plate armor didn't even excist at the time of agincourt. After verneuil (!?) though we see english getting owned more and more. So battles before this the longbow was hugely effective and after this not so much.

i would disagree somewhat, like i said the coat of plates provided ample protection against arrows except at point blank, however not everyone can afford a coat of plates. Longbows were highly effective against the lightly armored scots or welsh, but against well armored knights and men at arms, not so much.

Anyways, my post was in response to a dude in the 80 man NA server who claimed that longbows can pierce plate. I posted it here because i didn't want to start a whole nother thread just to beret his ass

[Joxer]

Dude noone wore coat of plates at agincourt. It would've weighted so much the guy would've just collapsed unless it was 1mm thick in which case it would simply shatter on impact. Btw in case you didn't notice in the video they use a bodkin against the armor too. Bodkins where made fast and easy with low grade material since that didn't matter for their intented purpose which was to pierce mail.

[Arrowblood]

I agree.

[Thucydides]

Dude noone wore coat of plates at agincourt. It would've weighted so much the guy would've just collapsed unless it was 1mm thick in which case it would simply shatter on impact. Btw in case you didn't notice in the video they use a bodkin against the armor too. Bodkins where made fast and easy with low grade material since that didn't matter for their intented purpose which was to pierce mail.

knights would use them. Furthermore Transistionals would be in full swing by agincourt, providing effective coverage to troops. However, horses were not covered in plate so that would explain the effectiveness of longbowmen against cavalry charges. The battle of Poitiers is an example of this.

[Roran Hawkins]

howmany archers where there? Let's say 2000 archers (probably wrong)

If you, with great armour and stuff, have to run across a muddy field, while you know that roughly 2000 arrows will come down at you every 12 seconds?
You have heard horrid tales of kings getting shot, and how accurate some archers are.
You know that it's luck based if you don't get hit, and that if you get hit and fall (not die) you will get trampled by your brothers in arms and drowned in mud.
And you know that when you reach their lines there will be fresh english knights and footmen who slaughter you while you are exhausted from dragging your entire equipment trough a muddy mess, continously holding your shield up?

[Joxer]

Try more close to 11.000

[Original_Sin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3997HZuWjk

for people who think longbow can kill plated knights

as an ex-archer both with long and strong bows I was shaken up.
+1 for the video.

[Alex_C]

i think the spanish one this war becouase they hda canons and blew all the other pepole away wit them