cRPG

cRPG => Announcements => Topic started by: RD_Professor on March 06, 2018, 08:58:12 am

Title: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: RD_Professor on March 06, 2018, 08:58:12 am
Somehow the strategus reset seems to have gone off fine. No massive bugs as of yet. I'll discuss that more in Strategus 7 thread (coming soon)

Don't have the energy to write much out now, worked all day on getting patch/reset ready. But I'll cover the jist of 0.5.3.0.

Changes to xbows:
-Light Xbow requires 76 xbow WPF
-Normal Xbow requires 100 xbow WPF
-Heavy Xbow requires 139 xbow WPF
-Arbalast requires 121 xbow WPF

Changes to bows:
-All bows received -2 to accuracy, a change that was never implemented when their damage was lowered a ways back, which gave them more accuracy then they needed
-Effective WPF curve changed to benefit agi-archers, their effective WPF has been raised

Changes to throwing:
-Several items were altered. These changes were implemented to curb the high abuse potential of throwing, and are likely to be followed by further changes. It's possible that the changes made today will be changed later

Changes to shields:
-The larger/heavier shields had their weights lowered to make them less cumbersome to use in a fight. Some changes here and there to other shield stats

Changes to leveling:
Yes, another leveling change, surprise surprise. This should be an improvement on current system. In general, the XP for levels 31+ was lowered, especially so for levels 35+, such that they are now attainable. However, having these builds more than 5 levels over the retirement level be full power wasn't a good option. So, levels 35+ no longer award a skill points & attribute point, instead, they give just a small health bonus ingame. As of now, each level 3536+ (including 3536) gives out only 2 more health. There are plans to add on a WPF bonus as well (which will only be usable towards hybridization). This is a totally different system than has been used before, so it'll be a bit funky in the beginning.
Here are the new xp requirements for levels 31+

         New                Old
31: Same xp           Same xp
32: 26207529       29119477
33: 86208979       97064922
34: 201214256     323549741
35: 366224679     1617748704
36: 576240509     8088743519
37: 826260949     40443717592
38: 1111284144   (numbers were absurdly large at this point)
39: 1426307181
40: 1766326089
41: 2126335839

As usual, I've probably forgotten a lot. When I get a chance tomorrow, or later this week, I'll flesh this post out more with juicy details and whatnot.

Item Changes:
(click to show/hide)

New:
Leveling
-Level 35 is no longer the cutoff point for only receiving health bonus, now 36 is the cutoff. So, all levels less than 36 behave normally, but for levels 36+, players only receive an extra health bonus (per level)

Shields
-Shield skill is now treated similarly to horse archery skill, where each point in shielding gives 2x normal amount, but requires AGI >= shieldskill * 6 to invest a point
-Additionally, shield difficulties have been lowered by 1 across the board, the highest difficulty shield is now difficulty 3

Bows
-Bow accuracy has been decreased by 3 across the board with some slight variations (meant to implement this last week but did not get around to it
-Reverted Archery WPF malus formula back to 2012; malus = 14 * PD

Cleanup
-Poked around the master cRPG computer & hopefully resolved some lingering issues from December. Equipment box may be fixed now
-Fixed the new items, they actually appear now (according to resource files, new items should be working, but apparently not)

Things to come:
-More Zimke items!
-Additional crossbows from CWE OSP
-Further balance tweaks to ranged
-Fixes to strat bugs
-Fix new item textures

don't have time at the moment, but I will look through the requests for heirloom exchanges and deal with them.

see this post for item changes
http://forum.melee.org/announcements/0-5-3-0-reset-without-regrets/msg1275187/#msg1275187 (http://forum.melee.org/announcements/0-5-3-0-reset-without-regrets/msg1275187/#msg1275187)
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Finse on March 06, 2018, 09:08:01 am
Levels are fine  :shock:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: RD_Professor on March 06, 2018, 10:04:55 am
Quote from: Finse on March 06, 2018, 09:08:01 am
Levels are fine  :shock:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

i figured that if they do happen to come back, they'll need some help to stand a chance against those of us who have kept playing the mod & are practically gods at this point.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Ikarus on March 06, 2018, 12:32:44 pm
Quote
Changes to xbows:
-Light Xbow requires 76 xbow WPF
-Normal Xbow requires 100 xbow WPF
-Heavy Xbow requires 139 xbow WPF
-Arbalast requires 121 xbow WPF

holy shit he's right, I had 15 str and 0 wpf xbow here

(click to show/hide)

we just shouldn't forget to somehow add that to the item descriptions or something otherwise nooblets will be confused

as always, thank you for your hard work prof
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: njames89 on March 06, 2018, 12:35:18 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: DaveUKR on March 06, 2018, 01:43:36 pm
Haven't looked into it deep enough but looks like a great patch so far. Thanks for your work!
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: fetus on March 06, 2018, 02:02:23 pm
Thank you Prof as always
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: DKNhz on March 06, 2018, 02:58:54 pm
You need to find out what killed the resurrected mod once again and reverse it instead of reset and shit.

QGT
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: illogical on March 06, 2018, 03:16:24 pm
Quote from: RD_Professor on March 06, 2018, 08:58:12 am
Changes to xbows:
-Light Xbow requires 76 xbow WPF
-Normal Xbow requires 100 xbow WPF
-Heavy Xbow requires 139 xbow WPF
-Arbalast requires 121 xbow WPF
What is it done for?
So that the melee/archer/cavalry/throw peasants can not take the sacred weapon in battle?

Quote from: RD_Professor on March 06, 2018, 08:58:12 am
Changes to bows:
-All bows received -2 to accuracy, a change that was never implemented when their damage was lowered a ways back, which gave them more accuracy then they needed
-Effective WPF curve changed to benefit agi-archers, their effective WPF has been raised
Archers, as before, can kill with three shots?
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Lord_Carlos on March 06, 2018, 03:35:13 pm
Jzst logged now in, Why my Stats got a reset? :?:
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: njames89 on March 06, 2018, 03:43:58 pm
Quote from: Lord_Carlos on March 06, 2018, 03:35:13 pm
Jzst logged now in, Why my Stats got a reset? :?:

Levels were changed and some changes to Xbow proficiency requirements
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Lord_Carlos on March 06, 2018, 03:51:19 pm
Quote from: njames89 on March 06, 2018, 03:43:58 pm
Levels were changed and some changes to Xbow proficiency requirements

Thx Bro  :D
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Sharpe on March 06, 2018, 04:44:39 pm
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Jona on March 06, 2018, 05:08:25 pm
Overall the patch looks pretty decent. My only concern is that now shields stand no chance against crushthrough.  :(
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: BlackxBird on March 06, 2018, 05:16:19 pm
amazing patch!
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Heibai on March 06, 2018, 05:19:59 pm
RIP stones (again?), but hey apples now hit almost as hard as stones.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Sparvico on March 06, 2018, 05:27:38 pm
Quote from: Jona on March 06, 2018, 05:08:25 pm
Overall the patch looks pretty decent. My only concern is that now shields stand no chance against crushthrough.  :(

They never did.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Jona on March 06, 2018, 05:32:21 pm
Quote from: Sparvico on March 06, 2018, 05:27:38 pm
They never did.

They used to. Before San lowered their weights for the first time any heavier shield would fair just as well as a heavy-ish weapon, like an axe, when blocking an overhead. Rather, you at least had a chance to block a non-held overhead. Nowadays you'll basically have a 0% chance of ever doing so, even against the lighter mauls.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: BlackxBird on March 06, 2018, 05:38:22 pm
Quote from: Jona on March 06, 2018, 05:32:21 pm
They used to. Before San lowered their weights for the first time any heavier shield would fair just as well as a heavy-ish weapon, like an axe, when blocking an overhead. Rather, you at least had a chance to block a non-held overhead. Nowadays you'll basically have a 0% chance of ever doing so, even against the lighter mauls.

I play like 90% great maul and can promise u (atleast before the patch) with a steel shield u are good to go! Max 1/3 crush throughs with 24 str. -3 weight seem much but hurscarls round shields were pretty safe before the patch too and they were 8 weight before the patch!
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Eskil on March 06, 2018, 05:46:13 pm
Can I get a heirloom exchange for me  mw Mercenary Sword. :cry: Now it has become almost useless and does not stand out at all among the other short two-handed swords. :cry: Thanks.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Asheram on March 06, 2018, 05:49:57 pm
Can I get a heirloom exchange for me  mw light xbow, even when I put 3 ha on Asheram I never really put much wpf if any at all in xbow. Thanks.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Asheram on March 06, 2018, 06:39:41 pm
Yes went from 1.2 billion xp to 8 Mill xp to lvl 35 on Asheram woohoo. 😀 But Runs with Scissors is going to make all of you suffer err I mean happy when he gets the 80 Mill xp to lvl 34 😉
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Elio on March 06, 2018, 08:27:23 pm
Quote from: Sharpe on March 06, 2018, 04:44:39 pm
(click to show/hide)

In french this is called "Phoque" pronounced as "fuck"

Phoque of approval, I am right?

/joke
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Penitent on March 06, 2018, 08:48:43 pm
FAAACK

Prof, remember that shield weight helps RESIST crushthrough ... and the steel shield and heavy board shield had the advantage of sometimes being able to block a long maul.

Please consider this!  You have nerfed some shields pretty hard, probably unintentionally.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Asheram on March 06, 2018, 08:52:33 pm
Wait a minute hold on. If you are increasing the weight and nerfing damage of throwing daggers then the ammo count should increase. The only thing they are good for is interrupting archers and cav I can throw them at plate all day long and plate still lives to kill. If not then I would also like an heirloom exchange for them as well as light xbow and I will just go back to 12/33 4PS  4IF 11ath runner. Right now I am 12/30 4ps 4pt 10ath.

Where is the PLATE NERF by the way?
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Jona on March 06, 2018, 08:59:26 pm
Quote from: Penitent on March 06, 2018, 08:48:43 pm
FAAACK

Prof, remember that shield weight helps RESIST crushthrough ... and the steel shield and heavy board shield had the advantage of sometimes being able to block a long maul.

Please consider this!  You have nerfed some shields pretty hard, probably unintentionally.

As it stands a shielder's only hope is to be able to outmaneuver a mauler (in other words, run away). It'd be dope if shields could have a bonus modifier in whatever the crusthrough calculation is so that they have an effective 1.5x their weight or something. That way they only slow you down by the amount of weight listed in their stats, but against mauls they appear to weigh a little more. Shouldn't be too hard to implement...
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Dalhi on March 06, 2018, 09:10:17 pm
The only shields that were somehow usefull against CT were not even used that often, beside Professor tweaked a bit CT mechanic so there is nothing to be worry abouy and there are some more tweaks to come. Maybe DTV shieldwalls are fucked.
Good thing is that crpg had players online today  :shock:
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: //saxon on March 06, 2018, 09:33:57 pm
fix the game, fix my sword. ta x
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Zeus_ on March 06, 2018, 09:44:07 pm
Quote from: Jona on March 06, 2018, 08:59:26 pm
As it stands a shielder's only hope is to be able to outmaneuver a mauler (in other words, run away). It'd be dope if shields could have a bonus modifier in whatever the crusthrough calculation is so that they have an effective 1.5x their weight or something. That way they only slow you down by the amount of weight listed in their stats, but against mauls they appear to weigh a little more. Shouldn't be too hard to implement...

Quote from: Prof from discord
its threshold to go thru was increased so hopefully shield will not always b crushed thru
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: XyNox on March 06, 2018, 10:21:33 pm
Noble dagger added for quickdraw as well
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Penitent on March 06, 2018, 10:28:23 pm
Quote from: Jona on March 06, 2018, 08:59:26 pm
As it stands a shielder's only hope is to be able to outmaneuver a mauler (in other words, run away). It'd be dope if shields could have a bonus modifier in whatever the crusthrough calculation is so that they have an effective 1.5x their weight or something. That way they only slow you down by the amount of weight listed in their stats, but against mauls they appear to weigh a little more. Shouldn't be too hard to implement...

I've blocked CT before with a steel shield by getting right up in the mauler's face and thereby avoiding the "sweet spot" of their swing.  Lighter shields mess with this .. so I hope things work out in the end...
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Bezlikiy on March 06, 2018, 10:50:00 pm
What happened to the Eckeсutioner sword? Firstly, if now it is used ONLY in 1-h mode, WHY does it use 2 slots ?! And then - a new animation with this sword are bugged - when swinging the shield on the hand does not protect against arrows. When will they fix it?
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Blackbow on March 06, 2018, 10:55:19 pm
Quote from: RD_Professor on March 06, 2018, 08:58:12 am

Changes to xbows:
-Light Xbow requires 76 xbow WPF
-Normal Xbow requires 100 xbow WPF
-Heavy Xbow requires 139 xbow WPF
-Arbalast requires 121 xbow WPF
imo that change absolutly nothing, dedicated xbower have all way more than this... xbows are still op and unbalanced in my opinion

Changes to bows:
-All bows received -2 to accuracy, a change that was never implemented when their damage was lowered a ways back, which gave them more accuracy then they needed
-Effective WPF curve changed to benefit agi-archers, their effective WPF has been raised
lowering bows accuracy sound to me like a good thing, sadly the change about agi archer build change nothing they still deal not enough damage to be viable

Changes to throwing:
-Several items were altered. These changes were implemented to curb the high abuse potential of throwing, and are likely to be followed by further changes. It's possible that the changes made today will be changed later
RIP to throwing now there is only one viable(op) ranged class to me... so throwing lance have 1 less amo and are even heavier ?
just wow, you just killed throwing

Changes to shields:
-The larger/heavier shields had their weights lowered to make them less cumbersome to use in a fight. Some changes here and there to other shield stats
like for the previous speed buff it sound cool but not necessary, the only change to me who have to be done is increase a little bit the force field against projectile... below 5 or6 shield skill they still let pass lot of projectile


crpg have now only one viable ranged class...

Quote from: Bezlikiy on March 06, 2018, 10:50:00 pm
What happened to the Eckeсutioner sword? Firstly, if now it is used ONLY in 1-h mode, WHY does it use 2 slots ?!
i dont get the need to put executioner sword 2 slot when there is tons of 1 sword way longer with similar damage...
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Ikarus on March 07, 2018, 01:01:42 am
the wpf raise removes the xbow-shotgunners, which will reduce the overall xbow count, people are forced to either create a dedicated build or leave it be. Trying out the patch will show if xbow will need further nerfs. I think it's a good thing, but as a xbow myself, well, I am biased

about the force field of shield: you should try running in formation with 1-2 fellow shielders, the phalanx-buff is awesome and I can heavily recommend it

Have you ever tried a modern xbow class for a longer time so far now? Last time I offered you to try a good build you said you have technical difficulties or something (tbh I can't remember anymore)

a simple "thanks" would be nice once in a while aswell, prof shouldn't be harvesting shit all the time for that amount of work
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Nehvar on March 07, 2018, 01:11:16 am
Well, that explains why my trade for a Mercenary Sword finally went through.  Will there be heirloom exchanges for the Mercenary Sword given how hard of a nerf it took?
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Blackbow on March 07, 2018, 01:21:56 am
Quote from: Ikarus on March 07, 2018, 01:01:42 am
the wpf raise removes the xbow-shotgunners, which will reduce the overall xbow count, people are forced to either create a dedicated build or leave it be. Trying out the patch will show if xbow will need further nerfs. I think it's a good thing, but as a xbow myself, well, I am biased

about the force field of shield: you should try running in formation with 1-2 fellow shielders, the phalanx-buff is awesome and I can heavily recommend it

Have you ever tried a modern xbow class for a longer time so far now? Last time I offered you to try a good build you said you have technical difficulties or something (tbh I can't remember anymore)

a simple "thanks" would be nice once in a while aswell, prof shouldn't be harvesting shit all the time for that amount of work

yes i did (it was i dont have the patience)
to make short :
arba : have way too much damage, reloading speed is between ok and a bit too fast, but the big problem with it is it take too much time to release the projectile
heavy crossbow : fucking good damage, too good accuracy, and reloading speed to fast my only problem with it is shooting at long range
crossbow : damage look a bit low, reloading speed way to fast, accuracy is ok, but it clearly lake of range

i'm 15/27 it's fucking insane how retarded this build can be (mean op)where other ranged need to go high str to be efficient
i rly have the feeling like other ranged class are nerfed to ground specialy throwing now ... but xbows are still insanly op...

i will take few days to think about it but i will probably quit the mod and ask for a permaban to never come again... and maybe come back when we will have an objective balacing team... even my ht build is fucked now ...
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: War_Ferret on March 07, 2018, 02:03:13 am
Wtf is the problem with throwing? Abuse potential? Can you elaborate?

I'm gonna expect some echanges for basically ALL my throwing stuff, since you nerfed it hard and you probably won't stop until every throwing weapon has been replaced with apples, bananas or coconuts. Let me guess... now that throwers don't have them mighty stones anymore, NA server gets regularly emptied by a bunch of marauding dart and dagger throwers. High abuse potential my ass.

And if executioner is really 1-handed only now, you can exchange that, too. Just give out 100 free exchanges to everyone, if you intend to keep "overhauling" the whole database in whatever unasked-for ways you please.

Just glad I already traded my yew bow. It was already ridiculously inaccurate before the patch. Now it got +2 damage and another -2 accuracy, lol.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on March 07, 2018, 02:13:23 am
Quote from: War_Ferret on March 07, 2018, 02:03:13 am
Wtf is the problem with throwing? Abuse potential? Can you elaborate?

I'm gonna expect some echanges for basically ALL my throwing stuff, since you nerfed it hard and you probably won't stop until every throwing weapon has been replaced with apples, bananas or coconuts. Let me guess... now that throwers don't have them mighty stones anymore, NA server gets regularly emptied by a bunch of marauding dart and dagger throwers. High abuse potential my ass.

And if executioner is really 1-handed only now, you can exchange that, too. Just give out 100 free exchanges to everyone, if you intend to keep "overhauling" the whole database in whatever unasked-for ways you please.

Just glad I already traded my yew bow. It was already ridiculously inaccurate before the patch. Now it got +2 damage and another -2 accuracy, lol.

I was playing on EU1 the other day and 2/3 of the server were dedicated throwers out of 20 people. I'd say by far EU has a worse thrower situation
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Turkhammer on March 07, 2018, 02:24:42 am
Quote from: njames89 on March 06, 2018, 03:43:58 pm
Levels were changed and some changes to Xbow proficiency requirements

I think I was at level 32 and now am at level 31 after reset.  Is that the way it was intended to be?
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Nightingale on March 07, 2018, 09:00:45 am
Quote from: War_Ferret on March 07, 2018, 02:03:13 am
Wtf is the problem with throwing? Abuse potential? Can you elaborate?

I'm gonna expect some echanges for basically ALL my throwing stuff, since you nerfed it hard and you probably won't stop until every throwing weapon has been replaced with apples, bananas or coconuts. Let me guess... now that throwers don't have them mighty stones anymore, NA server gets regularly emptied by a bunch of marauding dart and dagger throwers. High abuse potential my ass.

And if executioner is really 1-handed only now, you can exchange that, too. Just give out 100 free exchanges to everyone, if you intend to keep "overhauling" the whole database in whatever unasked-for ways you please.

Just glad I already traded my yew bow. It was already ridiculously inaccurate before the patch. Now it got +2 damage and another -2 accuracy, lol.

We had a... uh malfunction with the yew longbow wasn't supposed to receive a dmg buff but only -2 accuracy... and well our -2 accuracy on all bows didn't go through either.

It's just melee modes of throwing weapons that received hefty nerfs.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Gurnisson on March 07, 2018, 09:41:58 am
Reduced weight nerfs shielders against maulers? What are you on about? Increased maneuverability against them is more important than having high weight. If you rely on blocking maul overheads, you're either doing something wrong or pushing a breach in a siege. In every situation bar such breaches (which would only be strategus these days), the reduced weight is a massive buff, both against maulers and otherwise.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: War_Ferret on March 07, 2018, 10:28:01 am
Quote from: Nightingale on March 07, 2018, 09:00:45 am
We had a... uh malfunction with the yew longbow wasn't supposed to receive a dmg buff but only -2 accuracy... and well our -2 accuracy on all bows didn't go through either.

It's just melee modes of throwing weapons that received hefty nerfs.

So the "abuse potential" is switching to melee mode? You didn't just nerf the melee on throwing weapons, you also made them heavier throughout and nerfed damage on throwing daggers, throwing hammers, darts and probably more.

Darts are now 0-slot and daggers & shurikens 1-slot? Logic?

And giving shurikens more damage than daggers is just bad design. Instead, in order to give them a niche (and maintaining some realism), you should have increased their stack count to 12 and maybe increased their speed even more.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: War_Ferret on March 07, 2018, 10:38:04 am
Quote from: Tristan_of_Erzoth on March 07, 2018, 02:13:23 am
I was playing on EU1 the other day and 2/3 of the server were dedicated throwers out of 20 people. I'd say by far EU has a worse thrower situation
When I played last night, I only saw a handful of throwers and didn't have a problem with them at all being 2h/archer. I think 2/3 of the people were playing strength melee builds. If everyone goes 36/3 for the manliest punch in the game and then cries about not being able to deal with ranged, maybe that's the "class" you need nerf. With just a few points of athletics you can outrun every ranged guy, since every ranged weapon/ammo in the mod is made of lead. But instead of expecting people to balance out their builds, if they don't want to be rock against paper, you just make everyone else slower again.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Blackbow on March 07, 2018, 12:32:45 pm
Quote from: War_Ferret on March 07, 2018, 10:38:04 am
When I played last night, I only saw a handful of throwers and didn't have a problem with them at all being 2h/archer. I think 2/3 of the people were playing strength melee builds. If everyone goes 36/3 for the manliest punch in the game and then cries about not being able to deal with ranged, maybe that's the "class" you need nerf. With just a few points of athletics you can outrun every ranged guy, since every ranged weapon/ammo in the mod is made of lead. But instead of expecting people to balance out their builds, if they don't want to be rock against paper, you just make everyone else slower again.
few days ago prof was on eu 1 playing as thrower and if i remember right he said he had a 33/9 build ...
we had tydeus who fucked all archery, now we have prof for throwing....

im a ranged player since 8 years and fun is gone... i'm done with this mod... there is no logic anymore
- every 2h tincan feel faster than any of my light armored ranged build... because str is the new agi
- only xbow builds can get if
- your new lvl system is total crap, now it make just stronger high lvl, where before many of us was making hybrid melee/ranged without be super op
- 1h mace are broken as fuck remove knock down on them put it back to pole/2h only instead of letting them hiding behind shield and having a perma knockdown on first hit...
- most of weapon stats are fucked, tons of 1h have 99 speed... rapiere is op as fuck but lets nerf merc sword or exec
- a bag of 8 darts 0 slot lol when throwing daggers are 1 slot...

yo lets make it simple remove any form of ranged weapon that will make your life easier
ofc dont remove your precious op xbows wich will never be balanced ....
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Blackbow on March 07, 2018, 12:52:45 pm
Quote from: Ikarus on March 07, 2018, 01:01:42 am
a simple "thanks" would be nice once in a while aswell, prof shouldn't be harvesting shit all the time for that amount of work
thx for killing ranged ...
prof should stick to coding not balancing
nightingale should not be balancer coz clearly not objective
james should go suck pogosan's dick and not be able to deal on eu1 bans and following orders from a guy without power
and stabing his collaborator...

muricans just good to ruin everything in this world...why the fuck chadz always gave keys to american guys who are just good to say i can do everything.... to finaly fuck it ...

this game made me racist against russians now i start to be against muricans
this is a fucking cold war in my head !

i'm sry for my frankly speaking but everybody is sucking proff's dick because he's the only one who fixed the launcher
this is what made crpg back to life (and pestdoktor server hosting) but for the rest proff did shit
he ruined levels and 2 ranged class on 3... just stick to coding ...
he keep covering 1 or 2 item balancer just good to unbalance and keeping op xbows

had to say it and dam i feel better now =)
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: njames89 on March 07, 2018, 01:18:55 pm
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Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: San on March 07, 2018, 01:25:28 pm
Which specific throwing weapons were nerfed? The silliest thing is probably how snowflakes are pretty strong now compared to the throwing daggers and 1 slot, as War_Ferret said, but it doesn't seem like a big deal. The biggest "nerf" was to darts and it was made 0 slots anyways, being nearly as useful as prepatch throwing daggers.

Many of the throwing modes got buffed or left the same through damage/ammo buffs, though I liked it when the melee modes were pretty strong. You'll have to sacrifice a bit more ammo for a melee weapon or use the mediocre to decent melee mode.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 07, 2018, 01:28:30 pm
Nerfed throwing daggers, the only item i managed to get buffed to give them a use, and now its reverted back to being not worth while  :cry:
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: McKli_PL on March 07, 2018, 03:52:18 pm
Well i'm breaking 27k hours in warband, and crpg was always closest to my heart mod but watching how you fucking lost the track in just everything: levels, weapon balance, bugs, mappools, game mechanic.
It's like a ship with blind captain who fucking don't know where is sailing and this ship will crush sooner or later. How on Earth one of my alts i had level 34 and half and now its 33 and on my main it's all ok?
Just wow, u should solve problems not adding them up  :| fuck me even dumbest IT student knows that simplicity is the key to everything, not fucking up things because maybe it will work.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Asheram on March 07, 2018, 04:17:56 pm
Quote from: Nightingale on March 07, 2018, 09:00:45 am
We had a... uh malfunction with the yew longbow wasn't supposed to receive a dmg buff but only -2 accuracy... and well our -2 accuracy on all bows didn't go through either.

It's just melee modes of throwing weapons that received hefty nerfs.
it's not just melee modes of throwing that was nerfed. Throwing daggers lost 2 damage and there weight was increased.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: blizzick on March 07, 2018, 04:20:36 pm
hey hey can someone give me my 2 loomexchange back?
I made with my loomexchange 2 throwing weapons last week and you broke her now with the new patch..
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: njames89 on March 07, 2018, 04:27:27 pm
Quote from: McKli_PL on March 07, 2018, 03:52:18 pm
my alts i had level 34 and half and now its 33 and on my main it's all ok?

You are saying your character lost over 500 million XP? Something about this doesn't add up. Perhaps you are miss-remembering the level of your alt.

It's also possible that your character had a glitched level before and was higher level than it should have been for the XP you had. This glitch could have been fixed by character respec that was given. In which case you had the level only because of a bug.

Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: //saxon on March 07, 2018, 04:49:19 pm
Quote from: McKli_PL on March 07, 2018, 03:52:18 pm
Well i'm breaking 27k hours in warband

27k hours?! is it like -27° in your country 24/7 or something?
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: McKli_PL on March 07, 2018, 05:02:16 pm
Quote from: njames89 on March 07, 2018, 04:27:27 pm
You are saying your character lost over 500 million XP? Something about this doesn't add up. Perhaps you are miss-remembering the level of your alt.

It's also possible that your character had a glitched level before and was higher level than it should have been for the XP you had. This glitch could have been fixed by character respec that was given. In which case you had the level only because of a bug.
nope my alt was 37 prepatch, 34 after that big patch,
on my main it was 38 and 3/4 after big patch 34 and close to 35 now its 37 and a half (899,627,805 exp) so everything is ok, nope its not a bug/glitch i just check it right after update so ..............
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: njames89 on March 07, 2018, 06:27:18 pm
Hmm very weird I haven't noticed any massive XP loss on any of my characters. Will have to ask Professor later.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Turkhammer on March 07, 2018, 06:27:54 pm
Quote from: njames89 on March 07, 2018, 04:27:27 pm
You are saying your character lost over 500 million XP? Something about this doesn't add up. Perhaps you are miss-remembering the level of your alt.

It's also possible that your character had a glitched level before and was higher level than it should have been for the XP you had. This glitch could have been fixed by character respec that was given. In which case you had the level only because of a bug.

My main was 32 prepatch and is now 31.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: njames89 on March 07, 2018, 06:30:16 pm
Character?
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 07, 2018, 06:45:51 pm
Quote from: Asheram on March 07, 2018, 04:17:56 pm
it's not just melee modes of throwing that was nerfed. Throwing daggers lost 2 damage and there weight was increased.

Weight increase, 1 slot, and damage loss. I was so happy back when they made them lighter weight and 0 slots because the aesthetic of a dagger thrower was so appealing to me. But back then the weight held them back and made you always feel as if you should just chuck em quickly because otherwise the weight messes you up. feelsbadman. They were a good archer counter too, but now darts take their spot which is pierce aka infantry killers.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: blizzick on March 07, 2018, 08:38:33 pm
hey hey can someone give me my 2 loomexchange back?
I made with my loomexchange 2 throwing weapons last week and you broke her now with the new patch..
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Finse on March 07, 2018, 08:50:20 pm
Just adapt, damn so much complaining.
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Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: //saxon on March 07, 2018, 09:57:39 pm
Quote from: Finse on March 07, 2018, 08:50:20 pm
(click to show/hide)


ahaahaaa what a nob
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Yeldur on March 07, 2018, 11:07:35 pm
Quote from: RD_Professor on March 06, 2018, 08:58:12 am
Changes to xbows:
-Light Xbow requires 76 xbow WPF
-Normal Xbow requires 100 xbow WPF
-Heavy Xbow requires 139 xbow WPF
-Arbalast requires 121 xbow WPF

Changes to bows:
-All bows received -2 to accuracy, a change that was never implemented when their damage was lowered a ways back, which gave them more accuracy then they needed
-Effective WPF curve changed to benefit agi-archers, their effective WPF has been raised


Did I mention that I love you?
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Turkhammer on March 07, 2018, 11:30:47 pm
Quote from: njames89 on March 07, 2018, 06:30:16 pm
Character?

El-Yanqui
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Turkhammer on March 07, 2018, 11:32:03 pm
Quote from: Finse on March 07, 2018, 08:50:20 pm
Just adapt, damn so much complaining.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


I happened to notice that you are complaining.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Telford on March 07, 2018, 11:35:04 pm
Quote from: njames89 on March 07, 2018, 06:30:16 pm
Character?

That's what I thought about Kalmarunionen_Telford_X but I might be wrong, level 34 surely, cos I had ath points etc

(on top of my cav build**) I mean.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: San on March 08, 2018, 01:43:59 am
Yeah, throwing daggers were hit the most. Not sure what the point of them are when snowflakes are tons better and super spammable.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Bryggan on March 08, 2018, 03:31:47 am
So for every tournament you get some cool prizes.  What are the prizes for topping Strat? A cool helmet?  A loom point?  20k gold? Just asking for a friend.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: War_Ferret on March 08, 2018, 01:44:36 pm
Have you started giving out exchanges yet?

Need exchange for...

- Throwing Lance: Used to be able to carry 6 of them (2x3) plus 16 throwing daggers, now they are 1 slot/lance and therefore trash

- Throwing daggers: 1 slot now instead of 0, -2 damage, useless item now because inferior to snowflake in every way


Fun fact btw: basically every throwing weapon received a weight increase of around 50%. Should also ask for exchanges for my other throwing stuff, because thrower is just not worth playing anymore. Finally we can all be 36/3 and be gay! Next time you want to "balance" something, send me the list first. I can save you a lot of embarassment. But most importantly: next time you feel the urge to play around with numbers in text files: if it says "slots", don't change it. No. Bad.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 08, 2018, 02:29:07 pm
Quote from: War_Ferret on March 08, 2018, 01:44:36 pm
Have you started giving out exchanges yet?

Need exchange for...

- Throwing Lance: Used to be able to carry 6 of them (2x3) plus 16 throwing daggers, now they are 1 slot/lance and therefore trash

- Throwing daggers: 1 slot now instead of 0, -2 damage, useless item now because inferior to snowflake in every way


Fun fact btw: basically every throwing weapon received a weight increase of around 50%. Should also ask for exchanges for my other throwing stuff, because thrower is just not worth playing anymore. Finally we can all be 36/3 and be gay! Next time you want to "balance" something, send me the list first. I can save you a lot of embarassment. But most importantly: next time you feel the urge to play around with numbers in text files: if it says "slots", don't change it. No. Bad.

Lol i didnt know throwing lances got fucked as well, hook me up with exchanges as well. Lance and dagger builds used to be one of my favs.

Quote from: RD_Professor on March 06, 2018, 08:58:12 am
Changes to throwing:
-Several items were altered. These changes were implemented to curb the high abuse potential of throwing, and are likely to be followed by further changes. It's possible that the changes made today will be changed later

Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: San on March 09, 2018, 02:47:24 pm
Post/suggest some tweaks if any weapons look out of place. I think throwing daggers / 4,6-point shurikens are a bit out of place at the moment compared to snowflakes.

Throwing lances were changed to 2013 ammo and power (with much higher accuracy), but there was some caution with the proposed damage increase to 55. I suggested toning it down from the proposed 2 slot 2 ammo to 4 slot 3 ammo or 1 slot 1 ammo at the last minute, so you can blame me there :). If it's too weak, I'll let the balancers know about it.

The two handed throwing axe will be able to keep the style that the old lances had with a similar damage output and 0 slot throwing weapon sidearms.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Finse on March 09, 2018, 03:40:38 pm
James, do you have a autoreact to forumposts? i see you upvoting and downvoting the second its posted lol  :P :P


And we need more polls for item changes and balancing, this is way to closed of from the public when its going on. sudden changes in classes and gear is not good for the playerbase atm
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: War_Ferret on March 09, 2018, 04:07:16 pm
Just give out exchanges and do whatever you want. I have full faith in the team to balance the mod to shit. The only request I have is to stop calling people "balancers", only because they are privileged to change item stats. I can only speak for my own stuff, but everyting you did to it was shit. You made my barbed arrows and bolts useless, because you HAD to play around with slots again. I don't know when this really happened, but when I came back end of december that's what I found. Same with my precious donkey. It was now useless compared to the new mule and plated donkey. That was 3 items I reforged before I even heard about exchanges. You made the executioner sword 2-slot and robbed it of its niche, the only high-tier 1-slot 2h that had always been 1-slot from the beginning. Instead of admitting that you fucked up and reverting the change, there was talk about possibly making some other weapon 1-slot instead, just like with your brilliant "large" stones idea. Stones... first throwing weapon that was rendered useless, now daggers and throwing lance. Which one is next? It's only a matter of time until all ranged will be stationary because of item weight increases.

I know that realism doesn't count for you, but making 8 XL-dildo-sized wooden darts 0-slot while the same number of throwing daggers and shurikens(!!!) are 1-slot, that's beyond retarded. And it's almost as retarded to give higher damage to some ninja star than to throwing daggers. You would have to be one unlucky sob to actually get killed by a shuriken in reality. It's so light and poorly designed, it would probably not go any deeper into the flesh than a few centimeters, if it doesn't bounce off your shirt first. What an actual balancer could have done here is to increase the shuriken stack-size, like I suggested before, and leave damage the way it is. Then shurikens would have had their niche without having to fuck everything up.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: War_Ferret on March 09, 2018, 04:09:11 pm
Quote from: Finse on March 09, 2018, 03:40:38 pm
James, do you have a autoreact to forumposts? i see you upvoting and downvoting the second its posted lol  :P :P


And we need more polls for item changes and balancing, this is way to closed of from the public when its going on. sudden changes in classes and gear is not good for the playerbase atm
First step would be to enable damage messages in the chat log again, so everyone can really judge balance and isn't left in the dark, if he doesn't happen to be an admin.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Blackbow on March 09, 2018, 04:15:23 pm
Quote from: War_Ferret on March 08, 2018, 01:44:36 pm
Have you started giving out exchanges yet?

Need exchange for...

- Throwing Lance: Used to be able to carry 6 of them (2x3) plus 16 throwing daggers, now they are 1 slot/lance and therefore trash

- Throwing daggers: 1 slot now instead of 0, -2 damage, useless item now because inferior to snowflake in every way


Fun fact btw: basically every throwing weapon received a weight increase of around 50%. Should also ask for exchanges for my other throwing stuff, because thrower is just not worth playing anymore. Finally we can all be 36/3 and be gay! Next time you want to "balance" something, send me the list first. I can save you a lot of embarassment. But most importantly: next time you feel the urge to play around with numbers in text files: if it says "slots", don't change it. No. Bad.

same here plz i need exchange for :
- Masterwork Throwing Lance
- Masterwork Throwing Daggers
- Masterwork Mercenary Sword
and because throwing is dead ... also for :
- Masterwork Jarid
- Masterwork Hunting Axe
thx (char : Merc_BlackbowThePimp )

Quote from: San on March 09, 2018, 02:47:24 pm
... at the last minute...
this is probably the problem, plz dont do that anymore...

stengh of crpg was the variety of builds possible... now everything tend to be one unique same build (STR) for many class... variety is dead...
and imo if the majority of throwers was using throwing lances and daggers it was because the rest of throwing weapons was shit, not because it is op...

now with this change u just killed a weapon... nobody will use lances anymore...
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Man of Steel on March 09, 2018, 05:12:59 pm
I need exchanges too...  :rolleyes:
- Masterwork Jarid
- Masterwork Mercanary Sword
and for
- Masterwork Executioner Sword if still possible...

Those Items are on "Linux"
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: blizzick on March 09, 2018, 05:52:47 pm
I need Exhange for
-Throwinglance
-Throwingdaggers
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 09, 2018, 09:34:34 pm
Quote from: San on March 09, 2018, 02:47:24 pm
Post/suggest some tweaks if any weapons look out of place. I think throwing daggers / 4,6-point shurikens are a bit out of place at the moment compared to snowflakes.

Throwing lances were changed to 2013 ammo and power (with much higher accuracy), but there was some caution with the proposed damage increase to 55. I suggested toning it down from the proposed 2 slot 2 ammo to 4 slot 3 ammo or 1 slot 1 ammo at the last minute, so you can blame me there :). If it's too weak, I'll let the balancers know about it.

The two handed throwing axe will be able to keep the style that the old lances had with a similar damage output and 0 slot throwing weapon sidearms.

I felt as if lances and daggers where in a perfectly viable spot. Very enjoyable to use, semi useful to very useful depending on the player and also a lot(!) on momentum of the team. Maybe slightly too weak to cav, as i felt throwing should be best in taking down horses. Now it seems like theyve just been put in a no fun allowed corner. Look, point and laugh but dont touch. Seriously, i cant see any reason why they were altered, and so the only conclusion i can make is that NA has some people running around with stupid builds and this was some kind of counter to that rather than the build as a whole. I know there was some NA guy (seriously, every na player on eu seems to have a 200 word essay offensive name in all caps, dont even have to look at ping to pick em out) running around in eu with daggers only, but its not like he actually did anything.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: XyNox on March 10, 2018, 01:22:32 am
Quote from: War_Ferret on March 09, 2018, 04:07:16 pm
Just give out exchanges and do whatever you want. I have full faith in the team to balance the mod to shit.

Quote from: Blackbow on March 07, 2018, 01:21:56 am
i will take few days to think about it but i will probably quit the mod and ask for a permaban to never come again... and maybe come back when we will have an objective balacing team... even my ht build is fucked now ...

Quote from: McKli_PL on March 07, 2018, 03:52:18 pm
Well i'm breaking 27k hours in warband, and crpg was always closest to my heart mod but watching how you fucking lost the track in just everything: levels, weapon balance, bugs, mappools, game mechanic.

Quote from: Finse on March 09, 2018, 03:40:38 pm
And we need more polls for item changes and balancing, this is way to closed of from the public when its going on. sudden changes in classes and gear is not good for the playerbase atm

etc.


Even though some of those posts may have received downvotes, assumingly since people generally do not like to see "QQ" in any form as well as possible personal reasons, let me assure that I can all but understand these concerns all too well.

Especially the last quote regarding transparency I view as highly justified, given the hefty impact on certain builds/classes/playstyles which feel like happening "out of nowhere" and I think some of those could have been avoided by being more open about the balance-procedures in progress. This may sound hypocritical to some as I am, although not the only one but often one of the first to criticise forum input to be trashtalk and lobbying rather than reasonable feedback, but I feel the community deserves to get an insight of what is happening behind the scenes of the game many of you have been loyal to for so many years. So for disclosure, let me give you a few examples of how and why some decisions came to pass and what you can do to help:

The balance team currently consists of people with quite different class-backgrounds and belong to both of NA and EU, which then again leads to the individuals being accustomed to quite different ingame metas.

I am not at all overstating things when I am mentioning that there are severe and occasionally outright hostile disagreements taking place in the balance board on a regular basis, so please do not assume that all of those patched changes have been met with unified approval among balancers.


I do neither appreaciate nor contemplate to slander people, however I feel it is necessary to call current circumstances by its right name to make things clear:

More times than less, balance is a mess. Some people want to erase pretty much every tweak to the game that happened since 2012, other people seemingly have a vision of their own of what crpg is supposed to be and appear to pursue that vision at any sacrifice. To this day, there is no true consensus on that crucial point and it seems some people are more interested in chalking up personal victories with each of their nerf/buff proposals being implemented into the game. Consequently, balance suggestions are being thrown around with a specific agenda in mind, when the basis of the intended outcome of that change isnt even collectively deemed desirable. Occasionally I receive a personal messages over discord by another balancer stating how incompetent this guy or that proposal was and I dont even want to know how often some certain balancers may have sent impolite messages to people behind my back regarding my competence to perform the job.

I am not gonna lie and I dont want to protray myself as the good good samaritan, I am surely guilty as well of estimating my own expertise higher than others every now and then.

If the affore-mentioned wasnt enough though, even approaching a topic that changes the way some classes perfrom is a nightmare. Without calling any names, some balancers will respect another person having more experience with a certain class than themselves and will refrain from advancing opinions when not feeling capable of providing any qualified input, while other balancers will insist of entitling themselves to have a say in everything and anything regardless of actual experience with the content they are about to modify, yet another balancer will openly arrogate that his decision is justified because he played another game and it basically works in combarable ways there.

Discussing anything becomes increasingly difficult to say the least and the professionalism you expect from people to bear the responsibility of having such a great impact of the state of the game is replaced with, if you allow the quote from another balancer, "mere intellectual sparring". My honest evaluation of the balance team is that the necessary cohesion and experience to perform appropriately is not present and constructive community input is required to lay out the missing guidelines just described above for this whole ordeal to work.


In the end though, and this is probably the key problem, regardless of who or how many balancers advise or vote on what, the decision what will pass and what wont is entirely up Professor.

It pains me deeply to say this, especially since I have huge respect for the amount of work and time prof puts into the game, but I dont have much hope that this just described structure will allow for a positive developement of the game. As you may have noticed in some of his posts by now, Professor stated that he is reserving the right to make decisions if he sees them justified. Although it honours him that he is also willing to take the blame for any possible mistakes, this philosophy will arguably not lead to an improvement of the game. You cannot expect one guy to have enough experience with every aspect of the game and with every class to always expect an educated course of action, as some of the recent changes should serve as evidence enough for. I also discussed this several times and questioned how it is feasible not to have people in charge that are dedicated to the class in question which is about to receive significant overhauls, although even after these talks, I expect a division of power is not likely to happen.

There will certainly be QOL changes, bugfixes and decisions with good intentions but whether crpg will still be crpg after ten or fifteen patches in the future, I cannot say for certain.


Why am I telling you all this, whats the take away ?

Give . Constructive . Argumentative . Feedback.

If balancer A proposes change X and Professor ends up estimating that this proposal is valid, although maybe not necessarily having ingame experience with that specific part of the game that just has been proposed, there is nothing I or any other single balancer can do to overrule that decision. There is no council, there is no necessary amount of votes, there is no division of power.

I know it sounds optimistic, I know its the same old story that happened with other head devs as well, I know m0d 1s de4d.

I couldnt blame anyone for not giving a fuck anymore and I am highly aware that I am not exactly considered the first contact person by many players, given the nature of me being ranged ph4ggot ( although I really play more pole than archer currently tbh ) and being a sore badmin who only hands out irrelevant and unjustified bans, but if you can present reasonable suggestions of why what needs to be changed, I am willing to play "community manager" and bring these cases to attention, which will only lead to results though if enough presentable input is acquired.


I am not even sure if the people I am criticising here posses the objectivity to regard this letter as exactly that - criticism rather than insult - or if I will be permabanned 5 minutes after posting this :mrgreen: but having tried to discuss this with the concerned people without success, reaching communication impasses more and more frequently, looking at the current player population, reading daily what balancers are proposing to change and reading through very reasonable disapproval and discontent on the forums, I frankly dont care.

Thanks for reading
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: San on March 10, 2018, 03:38:50 am
Quote from: Gravoth_iii on March 09, 2018, 09:34:34 pm
I felt as if lances and daggers where in a perfectly viable spot. Very enjoyable to use, semi useful to very useful depending on the player and also a lot(!) on momentum of the team. Maybe slightly too weak to cav, as i felt throwing should be best in taking down horses. Now it seems like theyve just been put in a no fun allowed corner. Look, point and laugh but dont touch. Seriously, i cant see any reason why they were altered, and so the only conclusion i can make is that NA has some people running around with stupid builds and this was some kind of counter to that rather than the build as a whole. I know there was some NA guy (seriously, every na player on eu seems to have a 200 word essay offensive name in all caps, dont even have to look at ping to pick em out) running around in eu with daggers only, but its not like he actually did anything.

Yeah, I was the one who gave the throwing weapons those stats before for the most part (and added throwing weapon bonus to cav before it was reverted). Someone else had other thoughts and proposed something else and I gave feedback based on that. Can't be stubborn with my own opinions on things and try to compromise. I don't know enough about the current meta to rebalance classes (except for shields apparently) so I would rather provide small input to current balance suggestions.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Rhekimos on March 10, 2018, 04:42:15 am
Thanks for your continued efforts. I'm not sure about the extra HP though. Wouldn't it be just as well to give players over 34 a single skill point per level instead? Then they could get that 2 HP from iron flesh or finally get that fourth point in shield skill to combat ranged or whatever they want. Messing with builds is the salt of cRPG after all and an absolute freeze for point gain at 34 locks in the optimal builds which you can't do better than, no matter how much you play. The extra HP is also "invisible". Sure it's there when you play and get hit, but you can't see it on the website or in-game character menu or anywhere. People who don't frequent the forum won't even know it's there.

Also if there's exchanges given out this patch; I'd like one for Throwing Lance, Throwing Daggers and the Mercenary Sword.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Asheram on March 10, 2018, 05:09:49 am
What ever was planned for lvl 35 didnt happen or it is invisible as I am now level 35 and received 1att point and 1 skill point of which I turned the att point to 2 skill points and put all 3 skill points into wpf raising it from 1 to 4. lvl 35 15/33 5ps 11ath 4wpm 136 polearm wpf 46/65 with bonus 1h wpf. I was 15/33 with 5ps/11ath/1wpm at lvl 34.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Rhekimos on March 10, 2018, 09:15:19 am
Sounds like the normal level up mechanism is bugged. I haven't gained a new level post-patch, but my build is the same now at 36 as it was at 34 pre-patch. So the database adjustment worked.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: traxits on March 10, 2018, 09:16:59 am
Quote from: San on March 09, 2018, 02:47:24 pm
Post/suggest some tweaks if any weapons look out of place. I think throwing daggers / 4,6-point shurikens are a bit out of place at the moment compared to snowflakes.

Throwing lances were changed to 2013 ammo and power (with much higher accuracy), but there was some caution with the proposed damage increase to 55. I suggested toning it down from the proposed 2 slot 2 ammo to 4 slot 3 ammo or 1 slot 1 ammo at the last minute, so you can blame me there :). If it's too weak, I'll let the balancers know about it.

The two handed throwing axe will be able to keep the style that the old lances had with a similar damage output and 0 slot throwing weapon sidearms.

san, i get that you used to be a prominent member of this community back in the day and i remember that, BUT.

why in the actual fuck are you balancing items? i've seen you play maybe twice in the past month, there's no way you have any idea if anything is working or if it isn't.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: kasMVC on March 10, 2018, 10:43:39 pm
Plancion
weapon length: 133
weight: 3
difficulty: 17
speed rating: 90
weapon length: 133
thrust damage: 25 pierce
swing damage: 34 pierce
slots:

vs

Polehammer
weapon length: 130
weight: 3
difficulty: 17
speed rating: 90
weapon length: 130
thrust damage: 24 pierce
swing damage: 34 pierce
slots:

Unless I'm reading this wrong plancion is one more damage and 3 more length?
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: XyNox on March 10, 2018, 11:14:24 pm
Polehammer has 33 blunt secondary mode with KD capability
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Asheram on March 11, 2018, 01:27:06 am
Quote from: Asheram on March 10, 2018, 05:09:49 am
What ever was planned for lvl 35 didnt happen or it is invisible as I am now level 35 and received 1att point and 1 skill point of which I turned the att point to 2 skill points and put all 3 skill points into wpf raising it from 1 to 4. lvl 35 15/33 5ps 11ath 4wpm 136 polearm wpf 46/65 with bonus 1h wpf. I was 15/33 with 5ps/11ath/1wpm at lvl 34.
Ok so I just respecced and my points are back to what they were when I was lvl 34 but if I hadn't respecced I would have had the 1att/1skill point for lvl 35. Where is this "hp bonus" registered?
Anyhow I wish you would have done what you said you was going to before and let people at lvl 35 still get the points and make level 36 the special hp bonus only level. Especially seeing how it is now easier to attain the said level.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Silveredge on March 11, 2018, 01:58:08 am
Did something happen with First person/Third person aiming?  Firing in first person is now shooting to the right of the crosshair, in Third person this does not happen.  I'm not sure exactly when this happened, but I wasn't hitting shots I thought I should be, so I tested against a wall and it's quite obviously off in First person.  I use First person 90% of the time, Third Person for concealed shots, switching for each shot, then back to third person when not aiming/melee.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: San on March 11, 2018, 04:33:31 am
Quote from: traxits on March 10, 2018, 09:16:59 am
san, i get that you used to be a prominent member of this community back in the day and i remember that, BUT.

why in the actual fuck are you balancing items? i've seen you play maybe twice in the past month, there's no way you have any idea if anything is working or if it isn't.

I agree mostly, other than shields and blatant things anyone can point out like the eastern lamellar greaves, I just provide input on why past decisions were made or random info. I was asked back, but the current balancers have their own ideas for items.

Throwing changes reverted a lot of changes I made in the past, so I felt responsible and gave some input, but never directly changed any throwing weaps/asserted my opinion (Changes are 90%+ the same as proposed). Because I didn't play much, I only made some comments/asked questions for the most part. You can @ balancers on discord for similar results after a patch hits for quick results.

The changes to shield weight were based on discussion at http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/shield-rebalancing/ . I couldn't find a good way to easily change the effective weight like it stated in the thread, so shields were made more favorable to carry in general, especially anti-ranged shields. Not a fan of sweeping changes, but apparently ranged has been complained about for a while. Not touching xbow/archery ever if I can help it.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: RD_Professor on March 12, 2018, 06:13:22 am
Quote from: Asheram on March 11, 2018, 01:27:06 am
Ok so I just respecced and my points are back to what they were when I was lvl 34 but if I hadn't respecced I would have had the 1att/1skill point for lvl 35. Where is this "hp bonus" registered?
Anyhow I wish you would have done what you said you was going to before and let people at lvl 35 still get the points and make level 36 the special hp bonus only level. Especially seeing how it is now easier to attain the said level.
(click to show/hide)
HP bonus done in tricky ingame code. 36 is now the special HP bonus only level as well.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Reyiz on March 12, 2018, 07:43:20 am
the mod was awesome when noone played it
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: RD_Professor on March 12, 2018, 08:11:45 am
updated original post with new relevant information from today's patch. here are the item changes done in that patch

Further Item Changes:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: illogical on March 12, 2018, 09:09:35 am
Quote
-Additional crossbows from CWE OSP
What it is?
I do not see in the shop.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Dalhi on March 12, 2018, 09:18:41 am
Quote from: illogical on March 12, 2018, 09:09:35 am
What it is?
I do not see in the shop.

Not yet added I guess.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Nehvar on March 12, 2018, 10:35:35 am
I think they're just model replacements for existing crossbows.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: War_Ferret on March 12, 2018, 02:27:36 pm
Quote from: RD_Professor on March 12, 2018, 08:11:45 am
updated original post with new relevant information from today's patch. here are the item changes done in that patch

Further Item Changes:
(click to show/hide)

You and your balancer team are incompetent. You just hijack the mod made by better people than you and play around with numbers in text files, because you are not able to contribute anything else to it that would justify you being called "devs". You should have just fixed the launcher and left it at that. After all the recent bullshit changes, subtracting -4/-5 (after announcing a -2 nerf...) accuracy from bows finally does it for me. Now it's not even possible to have a steady aim with composite bow at 127 wpf and 8 PD anymore. You killed throwing and archery in just a few days. Enjoy balancing a dead mod.

edit: ok, maybe slightly overreacted, but when I posted this you had just nerfed highest tier bows by -5 accuracy. How am I supposed to know it was a mistake? After what you've already un-balanced in the recent time, I wouldn't have been surprised, if you had actually meant it. Apologies, next time I'm just gonna assume another misunderstanding...
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Nightingale on March 12, 2018, 02:53:09 pm
Have you considered that maybe 127 wpf isn't enough?
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Rhekimos on March 12, 2018, 03:27:02 pm
It's back to pure archers with no melee skills.

Anyhow, if the extra HP thing is tricky to implement, why not consider lowering the character growth to just one skill point per level after the cut-off point? Should be much easier to do, and it'd give pretty much the same effect with the characters not getting completely ridiculous at high levels, but people would still have some room to change their builds with level gain.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: War_Ferret on March 12, 2018, 03:28:48 pm
Quote from: Nightingale on March 12, 2018, 02:53:09 pm
Have you considered that maybe 127 wpf isn't enough?
Whatever. I don't care anymore. It's only a matter of weeks until nobody will be playing the mod anymore, so why bother. Maybe if you nerf another -5 accuracy off of all ranged weapons and add 100% more weight they will come back, lol.

edit @njames you can shove your fascist downvotes right up your ass, thank you.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Nightingale on March 12, 2018, 03:32:07 pm
to be fair there was some miscommunication regarding this patch and should be fixed shortly.

though 127 WPF 8 PD build will likely still be affected adversely.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Jona on March 12, 2018, 03:53:09 pm
Quote from: RD_Professor on March 06, 2018, 08:58:12 am
[some dece shield changes]

visitors can't see pics , please register or login







Quote from: RD_Professor on March 06, 2018, 08:58:12 am
Things to come:
-More Zimke items!

Weren items when?
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Asheram on March 12, 2018, 04:16:12 pm
Quote from: RD_Professor on March 12, 2018, 06:13:22 am
HP bonus done in tricky ingame code. 36 is now the special HP bonus only level as well.
What does this mean? So do we get 1att/1skill point at lvl 35 now?

'New:
Leveling
-Level 35 is no longer the cutoff point for only receiving health bonus, now 36 is the cutoff. So, all levels less than 36 behave normally, but for levels 36+, players only receive an extra health bonus (per level)"

If this is the case then my level 35 is not acting normally as the 1att/1skill points he received when gaining lvl 35 disappeared when I respecced him.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: War_Ferret on March 12, 2018, 04:58:44 pm
Miscommunication:

Clown 1: "You applied the wrong patch, dude."

Clown 2: "Wut? Thought we were gonna fuck archers into the dirt. -5 accuracy, right?"

Clown 1: "Yes, but we are going with plan B now and be more subtle about it. We reduce effective archery wpf, so when it still looks like you have 127, you really only have 50 now. Still -2 to bows, so they think that's the reason."

Clown 2: "Awesuuuum! Fucking f.a.g.cher cunts never know what hit 'em!"

Nameless Archer entering the stage: "Oh, my bow got nerfed. Snap! Well, -2... that's not so bad, I guess."

Clown 1+2: "bundle of sticks!"
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: njames89 on March 12, 2018, 05:08:43 pm
Quote from: Jona on March 12, 2018, 03:53:09 pm
Weren items when?

Weren and Zimke items by Monday the 19th is current ETA
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Kirman on March 12, 2018, 05:17:49 pm
What's with the changes to shield skill?

Edit:i didnt read the first post my bad
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: RD_Professor on March 12, 2018, 05:49:52 pm
huh. I guess deciding to try and fix the mod when all looked hopeless was an attempt by big, bad, egotistical ol' me to hijack the mod. certainly, my efforts over the last few months can be solely reduced to changing numbers here and there, I've definitely not done any actual work. even so, I absolutely think that I'm the best developer to have worked on the mod, because I'm just so full of myself. despite the fact that I'm just a senior in college, I fully believe that I'm more qualified than any on the donkey team combined. I implement balancing changes because I think they will be awful and will be effective in killing the mod, and certainly would not revert any changes that had an ill-desired effect. in fact, I'm so stubborn that I refuse to ever admit to making mistakes, and am so arrogant that I can find no flaw in myself or my work.

sarcasm aside, I've said it before and I'll say it again. balancing is a process. changes made this week might be totally reversed the next. it's never been my intent to nerf classes into the ground, and I don't plan on starting that now.

I make mistakes. made one last night when I included changes to archery that I hadn't run past anyone else, that were different from what I had said I'd do. so I reverted those changes, and implemented the change that I actually told others I would make. which was the -2 to acc.

so you know, these changes aren't being made arbitrarily. currently, agi archery is rather weak, and I'd like to change that. but, that would likely mean buffing bow damage, which is something that will make str/balanced archers even stronger. to combat that, I'm looking to increase the difference in accuracy from agility to strength for archery. however, currently 30-9 builds see a slight difference in accuracy compared to 18-27 ones, even while wearing full plate. meaning that the acc changes aren't through just yet.

by the end of all this, str archers will do more damage, but be less accurate, while agi archers will both do more damage and be more accurate. that's the hope.

there you have it.

the incompetent developer, professor.

(click to show/hide)

the actual implementation of accuracy changes to bows, which is what I should have done in the first place
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: War_Ferret on March 12, 2018, 06:44:50 pm
Quote from: RD_Professor on March 12, 2018, 05:49:52 pm
huh. I guess deciding to try and fix the mod when all looked hopeless was an attempt by big, bad, egotistical ol' me to hijack the mod. certainly, my efforts over the last few months can be solely reduced to changing numbers here and there, I've definitely not done any actual work. even so, I absolutely think that I'm the best developer to have worked on the mod, because I'm just so full of myself. despite the fact that I'm just a senior in college, I fully believe that I'm more qualified than any on the donkey team combined. I implement balancing changes because I think they will be awful and will be effective in killing the mod, and certainly would not revert any changes that had an ill-desired effect. in fact, I'm so stubborn that I refuse to ever admit to making mistakes, and am so arrogant that I can find no flaw in myself or my work.

sarcasm aside, I've said it before and I'll say it again. balancing is a process. changes made this week might be totally reversed the next. it's never been my intent to nerf classes into the ground, and I don't plan on starting that now.

I make mistakes. made one last night when I included changes to archery that I hadn't run past anyone else, that were different from what I had said I'd do. so I reverted those changes, and implemented the change that I actually told others I would make. which was the -2 to acc.

so you know, these changes aren't being made arbitrarily. currently, agi archery is rather weak, and I'd like to change that. but, that would likely mean buffing bow damage, which is something that will make str/balanced archers even stronger. to combat that, I'm looking to increase the difference in accuracy from agility to strength for archery. however, currently 30-9 builds see a slight difference in accuracy compared to 18-27 ones, even while wearing full plate. meaning that the acc changes aren't through just yet.

by the end of all this, str archers will do more damage, but be less accurate, while agi archers will both do more damage and be more accurate. that's the hope.

there you have it.

the incompetent developer, professor.

(click to show/hide)

the actual implementation of accuracy changes to bows, which is what I should have done in the first place
(click to show/hide)
And most of all, you want to make any hybrid builds impossible/useless. CRPG is boring enough as it is, without restricting every player to either melee or ranged. Question is, with what legitimation does one person and a handful of minions decide these fundamental design choices? You're not fixing stuff, you're just changing it to your personal taste. Anyway, thanks for sharing the party's plans for the future of the mod, chairman. And all it took was calling you an incompentent thief.

Maybe you can also share what you have done to effective wpf. Because you can't tell me that the extreme inaccuracy after the patch is just due to -2 bow accuracy. My bet is that an archer with ~120-140 wpf has actually less effective wpf now.

edit: btw if you want to do something about archers in plate, I've got a brilliant idea: why don't you increase the armor weight wpf penalty? I think it's entirely possible that this is what it was originally introduced for. And there's something wrong with your "actual implementation" list, too.

edit2: and maybe you remember that PD levels used to come with a wpf penalty (like throwing still does... or not... nobody knows aka "opaque game mechanics"). Since this is exactly what you are trying to achieve, have you tried re-implementing that instead of whatever you're trying now?
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Yeldur on March 12, 2018, 07:18:18 pm
Quote from: War_Ferret on March 12, 2018, 02:27:36 pm
You and your balancer team are incompetent. You just hijack the mod made by better people than you and play around with numbers in text files, because you are not able to contribute anything else to it that would justify you being called "devs". You should have just fixed the launcher and left it at that. After all the recent bullshit changes, subtracting -4/-5 (after announcing a -2 nerf...) accuracy from bows finally does it for me. Now it's not even possible to have a steady aim with composite bow at 127 wpf and 8 PD anymore. You killed throwing and archery in just a few days. Enjoy balancing a dead mod.
Hell yeah, another ezmode archer gone from the mod, this patch really is great!
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: War_Ferret on March 12, 2018, 07:25:01 pm
Quote from: Yeldur on March 12, 2018, 07:18:18 pm
Hell yeah, another ezmode archer gone from the mod, this patch really is great!
Good puppy!
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Asheram on March 12, 2018, 07:25:23 pm
Quote from: Yeldur on March 12, 2018, 07:18:18 pm
Hell yeah, another ezmode archer gone from the mod, this patch really is great!
So you guys are finally getting that melee only server you been crying for.
Anyhow any answer for my question Prof? I saw you in thread responding to clown story post which was after mine yet nothing.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Yeldur on March 12, 2018, 07:27:24 pm
Quote from: Asheram on March 06, 2018, 08:52:33 pm
Wait a minute hold on. If you are increasing the weight and nerfing damage of throwing daggers then the ammo count should increase. The only thing they are good for is interrupting archers and cav I can throw them at plate all day long and plate still lives to kill. If not then I would also like an heirloom exchange for them as well as light xbow and I will just go back to 12/33 4PS  4IF 11ath runner. Right now I am 12/30 4ps 4pt 10ath.

Where is the PLATE NERF by the way?
Plate currently is the only counter to ranged, nerf that and ranged will dominate the server even more than they already do. Nerfing plate right now is a horrible idea without first actually dealing with the ranged problem.

Quote from: Asheram on March 12, 2018, 07:25:23 pm
So you guys are finally getting that melee only server you been crying for.
Anyhow any answer for my question Prof? I saw you in thread responding to clown story post which was after mine yet nothing.

Sounds good to me :D
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Asheram on March 12, 2018, 07:28:19 pm
Quote from: Yeldur on March 12, 2018, 07:26:53 pm
Plate currently is the only counter to ranged, nerf that and ranged will dominate the server even more than they already do. Nerfing plate right now is a horrible idea without first actually dealing with the ranged problem.
Dont kid yourself, if there was no ranged whatsoever the same people that claim they wear it because of "ranged" would still be wearing it.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Yeldur on March 12, 2018, 07:29:19 pm
Quote from: Asheram on March 12, 2018, 07:28:19 pm
Dont kid yourself, if there was no ranged whatsoever the same people that claim they wear it because of "ranged" would still be wearing it.
I'm not saying that they would stop wearing it because ranged were gone lol, people wear it because it's strong, and you need something strong to beat another thing that is strong, after ranged is dealt with then you can look at other things. 

I've given up trying to play any build that is agi dominant because you just get mowed down by a single arrow, there's literally no point. It's why I now have a 37/3 11 IF 11 PS character who can just tank through arrows, but even then, it's still possible to one shot this build in the head with an arbalest because you know, balance and shit amirite x\xddddDDD
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Asheram on March 12, 2018, 07:34:22 pm
Quote from: Yeldur on March 12, 2018, 07:29:19 pm
I'm not saying that they would stop wearing it because ranged were gone lol, people wear it because it's strong, and you need something strong to beat another thing that is strong, after ranged is dealt with then you can look at other things. 

I've given up trying to play any build that is agi dominant because you just get mowed down by a single arrow, there's literally no point. It's why I now have a 37/3 11 IF 11 PS character who can just tank through arrows, but even then, it's still possible to one shot this build in the head with an arbalest because you know, balance and shit amirite x\xddddDDD
I never used plate in this mod and ranged has never bothered me. I play 12/30 on my agility char with a mw heraldic tabard and no helm and no IF dont get mowed down by 1 hit all the time.

Anyhow that's not why I am here, no idea why you dredged up a post I made a week ago its not like they are going to take that post serious.

I am just curious what happens at lvl 35 now- points or no points.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: njames89 on March 12, 2018, 07:49:58 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Algarn on March 12, 2018, 09:10:42 pm
So...yea, you just murdered my build. RIP in pepperonis 30/12, hardly knew you.
(click to show/hide)

Quick question, was this intended/going to stay this way ? If so, is a free respec possible ?
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on March 12, 2018, 09:13:21 pm
Quote from: Algarn on March 12, 2018, 09:10:42 pm
So...yea, you just murdered my build. RIP in pepperonis 30/12, hardly knew you.
(click to show/hide)

Quick question, was this intended/going to stay this way ? If so, is a free respec possible  ?

I got one, so you probably should have. Message Uthyr or James on discord if you have it and ask for one, sure they would give it to you. If I could I would lol
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Gnjus on March 12, 2018, 09:17:04 pm
Quote from: Algarn on March 12, 2018, 09:10:42 pm
So...yea, you just murdered my build. RIP in pepperonis 30/12, hardly knew you.

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Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: McKli_PL on March 12, 2018, 09:22:26 pm
so str archer is nerfed? challenge accepted  :!: :lol:
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Algarn on March 12, 2018, 09:25:20 pm
Quote from: McKli_PL on March 12, 2018, 09:22:26 pm
so str archer is nerfed? challenge accepted  :!: :lol:

It's not possible to go 10 PD anymore at all unless you put literally nothing in melee and athl. Good luck to you nonetheless if you want to have the accuracy of a thrower and the polyvalence of a 3/3 build in melee though.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: RD_Professor on March 12, 2018, 09:32:42 pm
Quote from: Asheram on March 12, 2018, 07:25:23 pm
So you guys are finally getting that melee only server you been crying for.
Anyhow any answer for my question Prof? I saw you in thread responding to clown story post which was after mine yet nothing.
meant to respond to you but it totally slipped my mind. gave your character a free respec, let me know if that doesn't fix the problem. as far as I can tell respecs are giving out the correct amount of skill/atr points.


to others in this thread here's a hot tip. i don't want to cuck hybrid builds. in fact, it's going to take a bit but I'm planning to cap wpf based on levels of WM (4 WM allows you to invest up to 121 wpf into one skill, 5 WM allows the same but up to 139 wpf, etc), and give out additional WPF per level. that is, if you poured all of your wpf into one weapon type, that wpf amount would remain unchanged, but you would have some extra wpf to put into other weapon types.

as for archery, i was searching to increase the difference in reticle size between agility and strength builds. in doing so, other aspects of the class were negatively impacted. that's on me, not the balancers. so, i'll be spending a large portion of today getting archery balance at a better spot
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Asheram on March 12, 2018, 10:05:56 pm
Quote from: RD_Professor on March 12, 2018, 09:32:42 pm
meant to respond to you but it totally slipped my mind. gave your character a free respec, let me know if that doesn't fix the problem. as far as I can tell respecs are giving out the correct amount of skill/atr points.
Ok ty, would make sense seeing as how it didnt change til I repecced  last time. I will get back to you if it doesnt work.
It worked thank you.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: San on March 12, 2018, 11:22:25 pm
I was surprised that my level 35 had more skill points than expected, I can now create perfect builds again.

Shields are also as strong as they ever should be. If they become problematic, they'll get nerfed.

Edit:

There were quite a few things I was thinking of for the shield changes. I was wondering why shielder doesn't seem to be as good as 2h/polearm (but it was close). In fact, a pure 1h no shield build is very strong despite lower damage from 1h weapons.

Despite being quite useful, shields are naturally balanced by their weight, speed not being as fast as a manual block, axes, crushthrough, nudging turtlers, etc. It took quite a bit of shield skill before a shield becomes very useful. Over the years, this was slightly altered with increasing low tier shield durability and decreasing shield difficulties.

I came to two conclusions:
-For the really durable/large shields, the encumbrance was too high to be worth lugging them around most of the time.
Many of them are still capable of getting pierced by a +3 arbalest. I felt that tightening the weight differences between shields so that there is a steady curve from 2 weight to 8 weight will offer enough of a variety without making a shield feel too useless because of its weight. They are already balanced by poor shield speed, which can be made up for with good shield skill.

The biggest concern was crushthrough, but I **think** that it is still affected by factors such as shield armor as well. I don't think making weight so high just for CT was too great because then you just become slower than the mauler anyways.


-Increase the effectiveness of shield skill.
We were getting to a point where the opposite may have happened - Str-based shield skill difficulties, making shield skill useless. By making shield skill agi/6 and difficulties 1-3, it will still take some effort to max shield skill based on your build. Even if you have a 12-15 agi build, you can still allocate those extra 2 stat points to more IF (which helps STR builds more). 1 to 3 is also the most straightforward path to better shields. Before, there were only like 8 1-difficulty shields. Now there are decent amounts of each difficulty shield.


If anything becomes too strong, it can be altered/nerfed. I hope not since the max shield skill hasn't really changed or it's worse, such as 3, 9, 15, 21, and 27 agi builds.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Strudog on March 12, 2018, 11:36:16 pm
I have lost 3 MW since the update....
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 13, 2018, 12:39:08 am
Finally reaching melee only server population, but hold up, where is the population? How come all the other mods with strong ranged still are doing fine?

Maybe ranged isnt nerfed hard enough yet.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Sauce on March 13, 2018, 02:54:49 am
So 35 still gets skill points? Because I didnt get skill points.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Silveredge on March 13, 2018, 05:32:01 am
A Masterworked Arbalest and Masterworked Steel Bolts does 3 and a half bars of damage to me.  A Horse Archer does the same damage.  A STR archer does half my entire health bar.

Wut is dis crazy world I've stepped into?
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Nightingale on March 13, 2018, 05:34:41 am
No no; Silver we only talk about how OP xbows are on this forum this is ur only warning.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Gristle on March 13, 2018, 09:51:21 am
Could heavy shields receive some kind of buff against crushthrough? I didn't realize weight was first reduced many, many, many patches ago, and I had been wondering why I couldn't stand against the plague of long maulers that were roaming around when the mod was revived. Even though weight was reduced, being able to block mauls should still be a benefit of the heavier shields. It was a nice little bonus to have, and it gave maulers something to have to play around.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Gristle on March 13, 2018, 10:07:26 am
Quote from: Blackbow on March 07, 2018, 01:21:56 am
i will take few days to think about it but i will probably quit the mod and ask for a permaban to never come again

Crossbows get nerfed again, this time with heavy restrictions for hybrids
Blackbow: it's not enough! more nerfs! more more!

Throwing gets a nerf that will probably be adjusted with coming patches
Blackbow: You DARE nerf something I use? This is bullshit! Favoritism! I quit!

Do us all a favor
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The mod will be better off when we have fewer people crying for nerfs.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Gurnisson on March 13, 2018, 03:36:16 pm
Quote from: Gristle on March 13, 2018, 09:51:21 am
Could heavy shields receive some kind of buff against crushthrough? I didn't realize weight was first reduced many, many, many patches ago, and I had been wondering why I couldn't stand against the plague of long maulers that were roaming around when the mod was revived. Even though weight was reduced, being able to block mauls should still be a benefit of the heavier shields. It was a nice little bonus to have, and it gave maulers something to have to play around.

Reduced weight -> easier to handle crushthrough in all situations bar pushing walls or breaches in sieges
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Paul on March 13, 2018, 04:21:49 pm
Quote from: Gristle on March 13, 2018, 09:51:21 am
Could heavy shields receive some kind of buff against crushthrough? I didn't realize weight was first reduced many, many, many patches ago, and I had been wondering why I couldn't stand against the plague of long maulers that were roaming around when the mod was revived. Even though weight was reduced, being able to block mauls should still be a benefit of the heavier shields. It was a nice little bonus to have, and it gave maulers something to have to play around.

If CT is really a problem, one idea here could be to use a custom shield parry event that negates damage from crushthrough.

pseudocode:

IF victim is damaged
AND attack from dealer was crushthrough
AND victim blocked with shield
AND victim shield weight & shield skill trumps dealer weapon weight & powerstrike
AND victim blocking anim was in a specific frame window (not too early or too late - thus parry)
THEN set received damage for victim to zero
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Yeldur on March 13, 2018, 05:12:12 pm
Quote from: Paul on March 13, 2018, 04:21:49 pm
If CT is really a problem, one idea here could be to use a custom shield parry event that negates damage from crushthrough.

pseudocode:

IF victim is damaged
AND attack from dealer was crushthrough
AND victim blocked with shield
AND victim shield weight & shield skill trumps dealer weapon weight & powerstrike
AND victim blocking anim was in a specific frame window (not too early or too late - thus parry)
THEN set received damage for victim to zero

Cool idea, right now I've noticed a lot more maulers running around and right now the only actualy tactic to beat them is just mashing left click because you can't block the nudge CT combo they have.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Gristle on March 14, 2018, 03:21:35 am
Quote from: Gurnisson on March 13, 2018, 03:36:16 pm
Reduced weight -> easier to handle crushthrough in all situations bar pushing walls or breaches in sieges

I used to be able to block it. Stop it entirely. Bounce it off my shield as if it were any other attack. That was easier to handle. I might be slightly more nimble now, but I don't think this buff to crushthrough was intended.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Jambi on March 14, 2018, 10:03:28 am
Psalm 136:26 Give thanks to the God of heaven, for his steadfast love endures forever.

Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Jona on March 14, 2018, 04:09:29 pm
Quote from: Gurnisson on March 13, 2018, 03:36:16 pm
Reduced weight -> easier to handle crushthrough in all situations bar pushing walls or breaches in sieges

In any 'large' teamfight in an open field you can't always monitor what enemy types are attacking you or from where. Most you don't get a chance to notice until they're right up next to you mid-swing. Any weapon besides one with CT can be blocked reliably by a shielder in this scenario, hence why they are good in teamfights, but once a mauler gets within swinging distance, there is no escape for a shielder. With my 8 athletics and light leather armor, even I am an unable to turn tail and run away from a fully-plated mauler, simply because they have momentum on their side. Any reduced weight has thus far unfortunately gone quite unnoticed in actual gameplay.

Edit: Assuming I'm interpreting things correctly, having 4 shield skill should be equivalent to having 8 with the old system, correct? Because when I last played I was getting hit with arrows in the shin which didn't happen before when I had 5 shield skill. Are the forcefields working as intended with the new shield skill system? It seems as though mine has shrunk, if anything.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Shaman on March 15, 2018, 02:26:24 pm
Congratz! You just ruin the shield play.With minimum 18 agi,who would play shielder anymore lol..shame.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Yeldur on March 15, 2018, 06:34:37 pm
Quote from: Shaman on March 15, 2018, 02:26:24 pm
Congratz! You just ruin the shield play.With minimum 18 agi,who would play shielder anymore lol..shame.
I don't think you've read the patch right. This was literally a BUFF to shielders.. Think of it this way (THIS IS AN EXAMPLE)
Say you had 10 Shield skill on the old method, now you only need 5 to have the exact same effect. This is a buff, not a nerf lol. The only build that got hit pretty hard are the ones with 9 AGI, as you can't use a 2 difficulty shield anymore. You can still do 28/12 lol.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: War_Ferret on March 15, 2018, 08:28:20 pm
Instead of giving out cryptic health bonuses that nobody can quantify, because there is no display of health anyway... I'd prefer if level 36+ would give you just a single skill point instead of 1 attribute and 1 skill. That would be 1/3 the normal progress and you could still improve your build very, very slowly.

And ty for reverting the effective wpf overhaul, the one ppl hate me for pointing out. Now I can aim with bows again DESPITE the -2 accuracy, lol. (as if I had known it...)
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Shaman on March 15, 2018, 10:30:32 pm
Quote from: Yeldur on March 15, 2018, 06:34:37 pm
I don't think you've read the patch right. This was literally a BUFF to shielders.. Think of it this way (THIS IS AN EXAMPLE)
Say you had 10 Shield skill on the old method, now you only need 5 to have the exact same effect. This is a buff, not a nerf lol. The only build that got hit pretty hard are the ones with 9 AGI, as you can't use a 2 difficulty shield anymore. You can still do 28/12 lol.

I was using the strwhore shielder build.With huscarl shield.I dont use an other shield till now.Dat was my best option for playing shield and now its gone.Is that not making sense you say so ? Huscarl shield needs 3 point at shield and shield skill needs 6 agi lvls,so i need to build 18 agi..that just make my +3 huscarl shield ruin nothing more.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Kadeth on March 15, 2018, 11:17:16 pm
Quote from: War_Ferret on March 15, 2018, 08:28:20 pm
Instead of giving out cryptic health bonuses that nobody can quantify, because there is no display of health anyway...

Better yet, why find a way to show health, effective wpf and whatever else is missing, on the character sheet both in-game and on the website. You've nothing better to do, right Prof?
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Telford on March 15, 2018, 11:52:25 pm
Did you change anything with cavalry?
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Asheram on March 16, 2018, 12:02:08 am
Quote from: Shaman on March 15, 2018, 10:30:32 pm
I was using the strwhore shielder build.With huscarl shield.I dont use an other shield till now.Dat was my best option for playing shield and now its gone.Is that not making sense you say so ? Huscarl shield needs 3 point at shield and shield skill needs 6 agi lvls,so i need to build 18 agi..that just make my +3 huscarl shield ruin nothing more.
You said you have 18 agility, which @ 6 points a pop gives you 3 shield skill points, the huscarl only needs 3 skill points so I dont see what the problem is. Like Yeldur pointed out each skill point now acts like 2 shield points (which took 6 agi for 2) used to.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Yeldur on March 16, 2018, 01:30:31 am
Quote from: Shaman on March 15, 2018, 10:30:32 pm
I was using the strwhore shielder build.With huscarl shield.I dont use an other shield till now.Dat was my best option for playing shield and now its gone.Is that not making sense you say so ? Huscarl shield needs 3 point at shield and shield skill needs 6 agi lvls,so i need to build 18 agi..that just make my +3 huscarl shield ruin nothing more.
It's an overall buff to the class as a whole, just because you can't use a specific type of shield anymore  doesn't mean it's a nerf, speak to Prof, James or Uthyr and they'll probably sort you an HL exchange since your shield can't be used anymore.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: RD_Professor on March 16, 2018, 02:17:49 am
Quote from: Kadeth on March 15, 2018, 11:17:16 pm
Better yet, why find a way to show health, effective wpf and whatever else is missing, on the character sheet both in-game and on the website. You've nothing better to do, right Prof?
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

no i am very busy many important things to do
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Asheram on March 16, 2018, 02:45:15 am
Quote from: RD_Professor on March 16, 2018, 02:17:49 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

no i am very busy many important things to do
I hear yah, replace League of Legends with Blackwake  :P
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Heibai on March 16, 2018, 03:52:28 am
Shielders get a huge buff (literally +1 free Level) and people complain how they can't use their beloved Huscarl Shield without 18 agility...
Just get a fucking shield that requires 2 shield skill, if you love being a strengh whore so much.
Now you can even use a 12 agility build, to have even more strengh, since Huscarl Shield used to be a 5 shield skill shield, before all the changes.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 16, 2018, 05:14:21 am
Quote from: RD_Professor on March 16, 2018, 02:17:49 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

no i am very busy many important things to do

League? I was blind but now i see.

You need to switch to dota.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Gnjus on March 16, 2018, 08:01:12 am
Quote from: Gravoth_iii on March 16, 2018, 05:14:21 am
You need to switch to dota.

Why on earth would a person of his intelligence & wisdom play that unbalanced crap ?
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 16, 2018, 01:10:10 pm
Quote from: Gnjus on March 16, 2018, 08:01:12 am
Why on earth would a person of his intelligence & wisdom play that unbalanced crap ?

"unbalanced". Yeah, they dont nerf everything constantly if thats what you mean. Every hero is viable.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Blackbow on March 16, 2018, 06:45:56 pm
Quote from: Gristle on March 13, 2018, 10:07:26 am
Crossbows get nerfed again, this time with heavy restrictions for hybrids
Blackbow: it's not enough! more nerfs! more more!
this is not the good nerf, increase their str requirement nothing else

Throwing gets a nerf that will probably be adjusted with coming patches
Blackbow: You DARE nerf something I use? This is bullshit! Favoritism! I quit!
you dare nerf something 90% of throwers use ? because others are crap? what about balance and give some interest to other throwing weapons ?
Do us all a favor
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


The mod will be better off when we have fewer people crying for nerfs.
no worries i'm out =)

Quote from: Gravoth_iii on March 13, 2018, 12:39:08 am
Finally reaching melee only server population, but hold up, where is the population? How come all the other mods with strong ranged still are doing fine?

Maybe ranged isnt nerfed hard enough yet.
or maybe melee players on other mods have balls =p
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Gnjus on March 16, 2018, 08:57:46 pm
Quote from: Gravoth_iii on March 16, 2018, 01:10:10 pm
they dont nerf everything constantly if thats what you mean

No, that's not what I mean.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: illogical on March 19, 2018, 08:02:28 pm
Go add new crossbows and bolts)
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: War_Ferret on March 31, 2018, 10:17:26 pm
Aww fuck it, you decreased effective archery wpf again. I didn't notice earlier, because I haven't been playing archer for some time. Very convincing how you want to improve hybrid builds.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: RD_Professor on April 01, 2018, 06:03:51 am
definitely did that, even though the game hasn't been patched in two weeks. i sent out a virus instead to change your local copies to decrease effective wpf
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: Asheram on April 01, 2018, 06:20:41 am
Quote from: RD_Professor on April 01, 2018, 06:03:51 am
definitely did that, even though the game hasn't been patched in two weeks. i sent out a virus instead to change your local copies to decrease effective wpf
No wonder why my AV program quaranteened my crpg installation a few days ago and was a headache to figure out how to restore it again.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: BlackxBird on April 01, 2018, 03:34:39 pm
my anti virus always tried to delete crpg.. xD I always had to turn it off to start crpg xD but then I uninstalled it  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: War_Ferret on April 01, 2018, 08:18:30 pm
Quote from: RD_Professor on April 01, 2018, 06:03:51 am
definitely did that, even though the game hasn't been patched in two weeks. i sent out a virus instead to change your local copies to decrease effective wpf
Maybe not intentionally but accidentally while checking emails or something. How's the equipment box bug fixing going? Is it a "priority"?
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: RD_Professor on April 01, 2018, 10:53:59 pm
Quote from: War_Ferret on April 01, 2018, 08:18:30 pm
Maybe not intentionally but accidentally while checking emails or something. How's the equipment box bug fixing going? Is it a "priority"?
that bug is a bitch. considering that normal equipment loads fine, there is no apparent reason that equip box equipment shouldn't. but for some reason it just doesn't work. so, i'm going to clean out the item & database of all the unused/failed weapons, which might be contributing to the issue. and that will be very unpleasant, considering that deleting and reconstructing that database will also require the item ownership of players and strat heroes to be remapped as well.

right now equipment box and pseudonyms are nearly only thing i'm concerned with. the only other thing planned at the moment is adding zimke/weren items when they get stats, which is easy to do. but i want to wait on that until the equip box bug is fixed, since adding more items just exacerbates the issue.

actually, i might temporarily remove all recolorings of armors (will do it in a way so that players don't lose access to loomed items, and return them once bug is fixed). given that the bug gets worse when new items are added, removing them up to a point ought to 'fix' it.
Title: Re: 0.5.3.0: Reset without Regrets
Post by: War_Ferret on April 02, 2018, 02:11:40 am
Without having any clue what the code looks like... wouldn't it seem that there are 2 different enumeration/ID systems at work of which 1 is up to date and the other is referenced by the box script and got overlooked, so it's lacking the new items, which causes corrupted IDs from the first deviating entry (-> inserted item)? I know this is trivial, but that would be the apparent reason I'd be looking for.