Here lies dedicated throwers
January 2011 - May 2011
Rest InPeaceHell.
oh stop crying, dedicated xbowers are in worse situation than any other class yet no one is crying bout them.
oh stop crying, dedicated xbowers are in worse situation than any other class yet no one is crying bout them.Crossbows are in a lovely place, I'd say they really don't need anything done to them from now on.
Throwers are bundle of stickss, bundle of stickss don't go to heaven, ergo they will never rest in peace. Only in pieces!
rip an overpowered easy class born from weapons that are meant to be a supplement to melee
Yes throwing lances were bullshite, yes PT 10 tended to be pretty bullshite, but people who used those were very rare, throwers in general were pretty uncommon, it isn't like the regular throwers were breaking the game.
rip an overpowered easy class born from weapons that are meant to be a supplement to melee:| they could have made it a useable class, but they just nerffed it to shit.... even i dont want to throw... it isnt even ok to throw, its just crap
The accuracy isn't what put the nail in the coffin, its the elimination of ammo. I mean 2 slots for 3 javelins? Come on now. 1.5 throws per slot is not justifiable... especially when its only a few more points of damage over a bow. There is no way you can tell me with a straight face that throwing is now "balanced."
Make javelins, throwing axes, throwing spears, and jarrids take up 1 slot and have a maximum of 3 ammo. Increase the power throw requirement by 1-2, and keep the wpf requirement for PT as is. Balanced throwing achieved.
Maybe reduce the damage by 10%, but at least give people who want to be dedicated throwers have a useable class.
The damage does not need to be decreased. It has already been decreased. And the wpf requirement should not stay as it is because it is currently unreasonable. To make throwing weapons do any kind of damage to compensate for there being so few of them, you need lots and lots of powerthrow. Dedicated throwers will want the most they can have, PT 10. 100wpf is no longer enough and you will get annoying red error messages every time you start a round telling you that you dont have enough, but not how much you actually need. I'm told the amount is somewhere over 140wpf, but could be higher. That is far too high for a weapon that you will run out of, and quickly. A lot of the higher end throwing weapons let you switch to melee. They are god awful melee weapons but with this change, you can't even use them as that since you cant afford to put points into polearms. You need to have a 30/12 attribute split, and 4 points in weaponmaster to make throwing weapons worth carrying. You can't have wpf in any other weapons, and you have to use all your skill points converting them to attributes for the 12 agility.you need 150wpf for 10pt, you need 140 for 9pt, 130 for 8pt, same for bows.... if you wear gear it needs more... u can wear 12lb np, but if your 9pt and have 138 wpf.... u can only wear 9lb....
That is infact if 140wpf is the correct number. If it is higher, then it means being a pure thrower is no longer even possible. Why are different playstyles being removed from the game? A lot of the attraction to cRPG was the ability to find a mix of weapons and abilities that work for you. It's becoming "wear plate or you are playing wrong". I'm expecting the patch that removes ranged from the game entirely any day now.
oh stop crying, dedicated xbowers are in worse situation than any other class yet no one is crying bout them.ya... your buff of 3p+ is sooo bad.... i hate dumb people
ya... your buff of 3p+ is sooo bad.... i hate dumb people
xbow bolts went form 10p to 13p... enjoy the buff dumb ass
Aim for the head.
Problem solved.
Next.
the item monkehs are working on it, afaik.O.O REALLY, i wouldnt mind testing throwing again, would be nice if you can reset my looms lol or just 3 of them, fuck heirlooming my pony to champ palf if i can throw again. i did throwing for like 20gens stright lol :mrgreen:
the item monkehs are working on it, afaik.
The best rebalance I could suggest would be lower the wpf requirement, increase the powerthrow skill needed, boost the accuracy a touch, and make heirlooming increase stack size by 1. Reasonable and minor changes that would be more then enough.
Aim for the head.I don't think he read the thread.
Problem solved.
Next.
I would love to see javalry again. I think that reducing ammo for javs and jarids and throwing spears to 2 and make them use 1 slot would be good idea. Also, 1 slot for throwing spear would make it at least semi usable.
Actually, I think you got that that the other way around...
Don't think you've ever been a javalry if you think a further reduction of ammo to 2 per slot is a good idea :P Seriously even with Pt6 Ha3 wpf 140 javelins do little damage and the cross hairs is still pretty large :P We're talking maximum of 6 javs and a 1h weapon... Compared to a more accurate bow with 24 shots a 1h and a shield, with similar amount of damage to javelins... Seem fair? :P
You know I think you might be right. I guess I'm looking at it from the position of a dedicated thrower who just had is main character reamed into oblivion rather than as someone who was multiclassing with thrower back up.cant take 4 axes and a sheild because throwing takes 2 slots.. and your sheild takes a slot...
The funny thing is, you can still take 1h/shield + 4 axes, or a 2h/pole + 4 Axes under the current system. Sure you need to spend a little wpf now rather than before when you could just run on PT alone, but having 60-75 wpf in your backup weapon is normal and enough for 4-5 PT.
Still way better than current 6 javs and NO 1h/2h weapons. Do you think it's better as 4 in stack that take 2 slots, or 5 in stack that take 2 slots ?
In the perfect world, bastard sword would take 1 slot and be less powerful than currently to make good sidearm for javalry.
cant take 4 axes and a sheild because throwing takes 2 slots.. and your sheild takes a slot...
Throwing axes are 2 for 1 slot. They are actually still semi effective, unlike Darts, Javs, Jarids or Spears.
(I hope no devs read this or Throwing Axes will get nerfed again)
:(
If you are kitted for 1h then you could take 6 axes and a 1slot shield and use the 6th axe as your melee weapon or just drop 2 axes and take a good 1 slot weapon.
Today I've been playing on my dedicated thrower with Quarterstaff (1 slot) and 6 axes (3 slots) it's far from brilliant but like I said better than the other "top" end weapons.
With pure thrower certainly that risk of having to get close, pick your targets, and retrieve missed throws all while having very poor accuracy even with high wpf, and very little spare wpf to put into a melee weapon for protection if someone goes for you all makes for a rediculously difficult class to do much with.
And that was before half the weapons got turned to scrap.
It should be at least 3 per slot... like it was even then I felt a real effect after the first reduction in ammo... I had to make every javelin count and even then I only had enough to kill peasants and harass a few infantry (assuming I hit every javelin). These javelins were quite low in damage really when compared to a standard bow :(
I have played since beta and Nord Javelin Cavalry is the most fun way of playing I have every found :(
Shame you can't do that in C-RPG any more.
You know the mod where youplay the class you want to make.
Don't despair, the itemslavesbalancers are already working on it.
I don't have specific info, but I believe it includes accuracy buffs, ammo buffs and slot usage reduction for some weapons.
Don't despair, the itemslavesbalancers are already working on it.
I don't have specific info, but I believe it includes accuracy buffs, ammo buffs and slot usage reduction for some weapons.
Thats cool. I like the sounds of that, but is that hiked wpf need being looked at? I think it was raised a little too high, since throwing is a strength build. Its what broke pure thrower builds the most in my opinion.
It would only have to be lowered a little bit. Being able to reduce my needed weapon master from 4 to 3 would make a world of difference, since I have to spend all my skill points converting to agility. It leaves the build useless and handicapped.
This so very very much.
As things currently stand it is flat out impossible to get enough wpf for high end PT while having enough skill points left for a little athletics, never mind the fact that Javalry is still up shite creek needing 4-5 Riding and 1-2 Horse Archery.
24/12 build. Or 21/15. I don't really buy it that it needs pure str, I'm doing quite ok with only 18 now.7pt isnt high end.... and 18 agi is fail, go troll somewhere ells
throwing really did need 8-9 pt in order to do well. The extra agility isn't much more effective.
7pt isnt high end.... and 18 agi is fail, go troll somewhere ells
also 7pt throwing wont kill a fly...
Amen. It isn't a pure throwing build if you aren't as good at throwing as possible.
^
Great examples of fail
Any particular reasoning? Or are you just looking for attention? We are having a discussion here and you are adding nothing of worth to it.
Nope, it gets better, you just have to level wpf and pt. With 110 wpf, 6 pt, and 45- 50 armor I don't get any message. People say it's 14, so I should be able to get to 8 pt/9 pt. I don't know why you are so fixated on 10 pt, ask those 10 athletics archers how effective their build is.
Of course Eponi does it not seem a little unfair that archers with PD 10 are viable, melee with PS 10 are viable, and yet throwing with PT 10 is totally unplayable?
Also power throw 6 is still just inside hybrid range in my opinion. 8-10 is where a dedicated thrower should be sitting the range depending on their need for other skills like riding.
Gorath, my character has 11 PT and 120 wpf and uses no armor. That puts him at about 9 PT due to the wpf constraint. On a target with full life, 1 shotting the opponent is unlikely unless they are a peasant or archer. Throwing is dead.
in next item patch:
all throwing items = 1 slot
darts = 6 ammo
axes = 3 ammo
javs, jarids = 3 ammo
throwing spear = 4 ammo (lower accuracy and damage than jarid)
accuracies reworked, improved on most weapons.
throwing lances removed.
disclaimer: this is not final. anything can still change.
Somehow me-thinks you're ALL doing it wrong.
Check out a player named "Sexual_Popcorn". He's 1-shotting heavy armor infantry with throwing lances (while using them in melee pretty effectively when need be) and 1-shotting light armor guys with jarids on the servers currently. Somehow he's doing GREAT as a dedicated thrower still.
in next item patch:slots where fine.... 1 slot will make people spam them hard... 6 jarids and a 2 hander... 9 jarids and a 2 hander/1hander, 6 jarids 1hander sheild.....
all throwing items = 1 slot
darts = 6 ammo
axes = 3 ammo
javs, jarids = 3 ammo
throwing spear = 4 ammo (lower accuracy and damage than jarid)
accuracies reworked, improved on most weapons.
throwing lances removed.
disclaimer: this is not final. anything can still change.
I'm telling you, go look him up. He's doing it consistantly.that guy is trash, and tuna town is melee only.... not range
On the Tuna server at this very moment there's a hybrid thrower 2-3 shotting people in mail with wardarts named SAN3711 as well.
in next item patch:
all throwing items = 1 slot
darts = 6 ammo
axes = 3 ammo
javs, jarids = 3 ammo
throwing spear = 4 ammo (lower accuracy and damage than jarid)
accuracies reworked, improved on most weapons.
throwing lances removed.
disclaimer: this is not final. anything can still change.
in next item patch:
all throwing items = 1 slot
darts = 6 ammo
axes = 3 ammo
javs, jarids = 3 ammo
throwing spear = 4 ammo (lower accuracy and damage than jarid)
accuracies reworked, improved on most weapons.
throwing lances removed.
disclaimer: this is not final. anything can still change.
This would fix things perfectly. Thanks for listening to feedback!
are any of PT reqs going to go up?
in next item patch:
all throwing items = 1 slot
darts = 6 ammo
axes = 3 ammo
javs, jarids = 3 ammo
throwing spear = 4 ammo (lower accuracy and damage than jarid)
accuracies reworked, improved on most weapons.
throwing lances removed.
disclaimer: this is not final. anything can still change.
The example you list is more a problem with crossbows and not so much with throwing. Crossbows should have a WPF requirement in lieu of pd/pt.
God bless the item balancers! The throwing lances are removed!they do less damg then xbows.... but w/e throwing is just crap anyways
that guy is trash, and tuna town is melee only.... not range
soooo you are just trolling.
God bless the item balancers! The throwing lances are removed!
they do less damg then xbows.... but w/e throwing is just crap anywaysNo, no they don't do less dmg than xbows. You've really just become a whiny child you know that?
only gonna throw stars for laughs now.
@Cheap: He uses his throwing lance in melee mode when he has to, also picks up any random 2h/polearm to defend himself and fight with after he's out of ammo as well.
^
INDEED! Fucking retarded 1-shot weapons.No, no they don't do less dmg than xbows. You've really just become a whiny child you know that?
To be able to do the kind of damage you're talking about with throwing weapons, you need to do this currently.
in next item patch:
all throwing items = 1 slot
darts = 6 ammo
axes = 3 ammo
javs, jarids = 3 ammo
throwing spear = 4 ammo (lower accuracy and damage than jarid)
accuracies reworked, improved on most weapons.
throwing lances removed.
disclaimer: this is not final. anything can still change.
OR you could quite trying to 1-shot with ranged weapons from body and foot shots all the time and do something like:6pt wont 1 shot
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 18
Agility: 18
Hit points: 53
Unused skill points: 5
Skills to attributes: 2
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 6
Shield: 0
Athletics: 6
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 6
Weapon Master: 6
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 107
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 130
with war darts for example:
base = 25 pierce
PT 6 = 12
total = 37 pierce
You can carry 16 max (and retrieve missed shots) while having more than enough wpf to wear decent armor AND use a melee weapon effectively (with 5 points to spare for shield or IF). Or carry 12 and go with 1h'd or 2h'd like archers. That's 12 incredibly fast rate of fire ranged shots, headshots will kill just about anyone, you can fire while running/jumping/kiting. The increased ammo and decreased slot requirements are more than adequate buffs to give throwing more oomph. With it you can use 9 Jarids or 18 wardarts with this build and be pretty goddamn lethal.
6pt wont 1 shot
also what throwing do at 6pt?
wont 1 shot
oh what not 100p?
1 shot
come on dont try to say throwing is fine because it is crap.
wont 1 shot
That's what all of this, and your whine specifically, comes down to.no my fuss is That the throwing lance can 2 shot people and you still call it op, yet you can 2 shot people with the xbow and its fair?
"WE CAN'T 1-SHOT EVERYONE ALL MAP LONG LIKE WE ALWAYS USED TO WHEN IT WAS OP AND BROKEN!"
*I say nerf x-bows into the ground, along with what's left of archery AND throwing and lets keep the mod free from ranged butt-piracy once and for all*
I get "one shotted" all the time by people with two handers or polearms. They can easily get 10 powerstrike and do that. Why shouldn't I be able to get 10 powerthrow and do the same?
Now im not going to win any friends with this post, but hey it's a game and the internet, it isnt about winning friends.
Gorath is never to be taken seriously, don't feed the troll :lol:gorath is no troll, we dont agree alot but he is a good person lol
It only sounds boring as hell because you're one of those ranged favored players that saw "OMG! MP M&B! The game with the best melee combat system out today so far! I know, I'll buy it in order to shoot people instead!"
It only sounds boring as hell because you're one of those ranged favored players that saw "OMG! MP M&B! The game with the best melee combat system out today so far! I know, I'll buy it in order to shoot people instead!"
Yup, I'm a melee elitist, but I'm completely honest about it, etc, blah, blah, blah....
*I say nerf x-bows into the ground, along with what's left of archery AND throwing and lets keep the mod free from ranged butt-piracy once and for all*
Yeah, risen server was melee only last time I went there.
It was basically a variation of the duel server. Almost exclusively 2h with greatswords and polearms.
Great fun...
If Gorath is a badass, then i am Lady Gaga.
Anyone got that picture of him with a fedora and his neckbeard?
No ranged allowed in Goraths cRPG paradise.
Thanks for the nice information on beards, Gorath. Now when I see someone with that retarded looking beard style I can think to myself "ahh, and there we have the famous neck beard, an interesting species isnt it?"
Oh they're allowed. As long as they're complete feeble-armed weakling pieces of vile shit befitting the nature of their playstyle.
in next item patch:
all throwing items = 1 slot
darts = 6 ammo
axes = 3 ammo
javs, jarids = 3 ammo
throwing spear = 4 ammo (lower accuracy and damage than jarid)
accuracies reworked, improved on most weapons.
throwing lances removed.
disclaimer: this is not final. anything can still change.
in next item patch:
all throwing items = 1 slot
darts = 6 ammo
axes = 3 ammo
javs, jarids = 3 ammo
throwing spear = 4 ammo (lower accuracy and damage than jarid)
accuracies reworked, improved on most weapons.
throwing lances removed.
disclaimer: this is not final. anything can still change.
slots where fine.... 1 slot will make people spam them hard... 6 jarids and a 2 hander... 9 jarids and a 2 hander/1hander, 6 jarids 1hander sheild.....
just up the ammo and damg, and all is fixed
Any news on this? You said that anything can still change but this is the only bit of news we've heard in a while now.Throwing lances aren't getting removed.
Throwing lances aren't getting removed.
oh and btw
mw throwing lances with 10 PT do 131.4p
96.4p at 6PT.
(with minimal wpf.)
sweet mother of god. railguns are returning to cRPG.
Throwing lances aren't getting removed.
oh and btw
mw throwing lances with 10 PT do 131.4p
96.4p at 6PT.
(with minimal wpf.)
sweet mother of god. railguns are returning to cRPG.
a rail gun that only has 2 ammo, and god help you if they hit shields.
Masterwork Arbalest with Masterwork Steel Bolts already do that job and with longer range, greater accuracy and way more ammo.
Throwing lances aren't getting removed.ooo then i will master work mine lol
oh and btw
mw throwing lances with 10 PT do 131.4p
96.4p at 6PT.
(with minimal wpf.)
that was just a reply to whoever said they barely beat sniper at 10 PTugh... can i get 2 heirloom points then when they remove my 2xloomed lances :|
minimal wpf means 13 wpf per PT
ya. I think a dev said somewhere that 10 wpf per PT is going to be the requirement instead of 14.
minimal wpf means 13 wpf per PT
I'm sorry but at 13 wpf per PT you would still have PT 10 being unplayable.
Yes, and that's exactly our intention. For the same reason that a 10PD archer is unplayable (except PT gives an even larger bonus than PD).
So what about power strike is so special that is is perfectly playable at 10?
So what about power strike is so special that is is perfectly playable at 10?
10 PD archer unplayable ... don't make me laugh.
As I said my post a 10PD archer is FAR more effective than a 10PT thrower because the archers range and ammo count means they are much less likely to be in a situation where they NEED athletics.
Yes, and that's exactly our intention. For the same reason [care to share?] that a 10PD archer is unplayable (except PT gives an even larger bonus than PD).
One additional problem with throwing is that there is no item difficulty based maximum PT bonus. For archery it is (difficulty +4). So with PT >10 stones become simple too effective although they are meant to be a peasant weapon.
It was decided that 10PD should not be playable when 10PD was the norm, and massively overpowered.
Sorry if that disappoints you, but that's simply how balancing works in every game, there is no philosophy essay about the complex reasoning behind the changes.
One additional problem with throwing is that there is no item difficulty based maximum PT bonus. For archery it is (difficulty +4). So with PT >10 stones become simple too effective although they are meant to be a peasant weapon.
I have a dedicated stone thrower myself (PT 9) and there is a "slight" difference between the rate of fire of throwing stones (4 stacks, 48 shots, upkeep around 0)and firing the crossbow. With my arbalest(18k) I can hardly loose the 12 bolts of the stack I carry during a round while my stone thrower easily can and then pick up some weapon to carry on. I can do decent damage aganst low and medium armored foes while being able to stagger heavies. The accuracy and cadence is very high. Above 10 PT it will get too good. And it's not only about stones. Other weapons will get too good with high end PT and the upcoming throwing buff. Especially with the accuracy increase and the fact that we don't let PT reduce wpf like it is with PD and archery wpf.
And what's it with the personal attacks against devs which seem to become a forum sport? I'm used to it from Tzar since he is special but from other it became a bit too common as well.
I would love to see someone use rocks, and consistently get a positive KDR. It doesn't happen. You can stun heavys? Ok... thats a bad thing because? At most, you can be a distraction for your team. It would be much easier to just take some wardarts and actually deal some damage to them. Rocks are joke weapons. I'm seriously concerned if you consider them a problem.
I would love to see someone use rocks, and consistently get a positive KDR. It doesn't happen. You can stun heavys? Ok... thats a bad thing because? At most, you can be a distraction for your team. It would be much easier to just take some wardarts and actually deal some damage to them. Rocks are joke weapons. I'm seriously concerned if you consider them a problem.
I guess you haven't met Pebble Pusher.
I would love to see someone use rocks, and consistently get a positive KDR. It doesn't happen. You can stun heavys? Ok... thats a bad thing because? At most, you can be a distraction for your team. It would be much easier to just take some wardarts and actually deal some damage to them. Rocks are joke weapons. I'm seriously concerned if you consider them a problem.
If you get a positive KDR with joke weapons wouldn't the improved weapons be OP automatically?
Besides, where are those pure sickle or scythe players (and yes, in robe please not plate armor or horse or huscarl shield) or a shortbow?
If you get a positive KDR with joke weapons wouldn't the improved weapons be OP automatically?
Besides, where are those pure sickle or scythe players (and yes, in robe please not plate armor or horse or huscarl shield) or a shortbow?
What the hell is up with the melee jock hanging? Everything seems to be either catered to melee or melee has double standards. If you don't want people to get 10PT because they can turn the "peasant" rocks into deadly weapons then why can a melee get 8+ PS and turn "peasant" weapons into deadlier weapons? An 8PS "peasant" melee weapon hurts a LOT more than a 10PT rock.
Also, WHAT IN THE GODDAMNED HOLY HELL is wrong with letting "peasant weapons" be useful at high PT. I can take a damn pitchfork, staff, quarterstaff, or dagger with 7+ PS and 1-2 shot people in low armor. With the same weapons I can severely hurt tin cans, WITH A "PEASANT" WEAPON.
That is because:
a. It's a melee weapon, to hit someone with a sickle you need to be able to lick their nosehair.
b. Once again, it's a melee weapon, i.e you can actually defend yourself against it. (you know blocking, ever tried it?)
Melee is the central mechanic of this game. There is a reason you see duel tornaments not with archers pelting at eachother, lancers lollancing or throwers kiting. There is a reason why 99% of ppl, regardless of class carry a melee weapon. There is a reason why the majority of top players play melee oriented classes.
That is not to say that other classes then pure melee shouldn't be viable, as for throwing, (which currently is underpowered yes) read the thread, read my previous post, and make valid arguments instead of flaming the majority of the playerbase with stupid posts like these.(click to show/hide)
Wow, your post is oozing with bias and generalizations.Pot. Kettle. Black.
Since we are going to go the moronic route of saying this is supposed to be a melee game because there are no other games like it then I would like to say that this is a ranged game because there are no other games out there that allow you to hurl javelins and shoot realistic arrows that obey physics to an extent.
I guess you haven't met Pebble Pusher.
Why do people keep using "throwing" in relation to "kiting"? If you have ever been kited by a thrower, then you are god awful and should pack it in and give up.I thought PT doesn't reduce your wpf, it's just the more skill points you put into PT, you'll require more wpf points into Throwing proficiency before using thrown weapons?
Also, Paul. How exactly is throwing wpf handled when it comes to PT? Does the PT actually lower wpf by 13 per point?
Edit: wpf - armor % - 13*PT + 25% = adjusted wpf? Is that the formula?
So at zero armor, I am currently working with... 130wpf - 0 - 13*9 = 16.25 wpf.
If the wpf req is lowered to 12 I'll have 27.5 wpf without armor?
If this is the way it is, then why? I know there was some debate going on about PT PD and PS. Im just wondering why melee has such a huge advantage? I know PT and PD raise damage more, but PS can go higher then 10 and get the full benifit of their wpf as well as load up on armor and other skills right? It seems pretty heavily weighted towards melee. There's gotta be another soltion to keep everyone from being ranged other then making melee way cheaper and better then it?
Because ranged weapons being able to 1 hit is OP but melee weapons being able to 1 hit is not.
Is the jist of it I believe.
Even if the wpf requirement stays, I'd be happy if it were just reduced, xbows got balanced, and PS got some kind of limiter. Wont happen, but I think it really should. Melee shouldn't be a game of "Who hits first wins, excuse me while I dispatch of this ranged pest."
You could do exactly the same with melee games if you are going to cite in browser bullshit like that.
That list proves nothing.
Not that I agree with Jacob's method of "argument" ie, pointlesss rudeness. The above is just as pointless.
It's Gorath, what do you expect? :lol:I like to be consistant with my anti ranged trololo bias. :wink:
It's the bigger picture here, sure they may annoy you but they certainly arent as powerful as people often thought. I didnt like it when archers were everywhere, in fact it's getting back to that now, but I never suggested that we nerf the shit out of them just because they annoy me.
Which is silly because crossbows 1 shot with no skill investment. Loomed crossbows do more damage per shot than loomed throwing lances with 6 PT.
Because ranged weapons being able to 1 hit is OP but melee weapons being able to 1 hit is not.
Is the jist of it I believe.
The point was to troll Jacob. However you missed Darkfall online (the archery there is actually quite good, even if the game itself is a grindathon piece of shit that makes korean grinders look like "Skip the fun" option games.), Trophy/Bow Hunter (which I played cause sometimes I like to embrace my inner redneck and I bowhunt IRL so I find them amusing every now and then) and Oblivion which had good archery as well for being in a disappointing game (even the melee system wasn't BAD, just not as good as M&B). Those were the three serious posts in response to his "no good archery games".
Throwing I can't think of any good games off the top of my head but seriously that's going to be hard since throwing is just a sidearm wtf fighting style really anyways. The problem is that being a sidearm for melee (instead of x-bow like currently) isn't good enough for the "thrower's" who want it to be balanced as a viable dedicated fighting style. I would cite that this is rediculous because throwing weapons penetrating metal armors is plain silly (except for MAYBE some kind of throwing PICK that might pierce through) other than doing blunt force trauma perhaps, but then the whole "FUCK REALISM!!!!! REALISM chocolate chip cookie!!!! IT'S A GAME!!!!!" rampage starts.
That's really the main reason they'll always be called on to be nerfed. Just the way it is. This is the ONLY multiplayer game we have with good melee combat, yet it turns more and more every day into a standard FPS using medieval "guns". It's not really ever about them being "OP" but the fact that they are just lame and gay, forcing all melee to play a shielder or just deal with having a billion projectiles you have to dodge with shitty movement controls and slow running speed that you can't block just so you can get to have a melee fight.
They don't unless you get a headshot or your target is pretty much nekkid with crap str and no IF. :rolleyes:
All ranged weapons can do this same one shot scenario btw. Headshot, dead. Nekkid dude with bad stats, dead.
Pretty much. Ranged can be blocked and absorbed. Melee cannot (unless you use a melee weapon which is basically saying all ranged has to play with a melee weapon and be able to manual block just as well as the UBAR 1337 MELEE PLAERZ on top of being able to be a good archer)
You named one multiplayer game (Darkfall), and archery in that game is a laggy bad mess and doesn't really work very well. Try again.Funny, archery had no lag issues when I played Darkfall during both the beta (EU server and ping) and EU launch (again, EU server and bad ping). It worked amazing. :rolleyes:
Yea, there's no way a javelin thrown from a horse could penetrate plate armor....oh wait. You need to get your GED so you can at least understand basic physics.Ah! So there we have it. Throwing should only be viable when done from horseback as a Javazon. I approve with your idea and will support it to the devs. Throwing on foot nerfed to uselessness, Javazons viable due to speed bonus. Wait, that sounds somewhat like it is currently. Wierd.
You obviously never played any of the jedi knight series.I did, extensively in fact. Never used the guns there either. If you're commenting about JK series in response to:
So you should be fine with throwing lances getting more ammo since they do less damage than an arbalest. Make up your mind, you either have to say that throwing lances AND arbalest are OP because they can 1 shot, or you have to say that they are BOTH fine.Lances 1-shot to the body. Nice try avoiding the point and making up your own though. :rolleyes:
Fixed.
Double standards as expected. Ranged forces melee players to get a shield or die. Melee forces ranged to take a melee weapon or die. You don't see all archers bitching that they have to or should take a melee weapon, but melee players will throw shitfits if they are required to "waste" 2-4 points and 1 slot to make them completely immune to ranged attackers. On top of that, they can still use their 2h/polearm when they get within range of the enemy. I swear, back when archery did a crapload of damage and everyone carried a sniper crossbow there was less bitching because everyone also carried a shield. The irony here is that you DO have a shield and you're still complaining like a retarded twelve year old.
I propose that melee damage should be cut in half, swing speeds should be slowed, and Archers can block with their fists indefinitely. Why? Because ranged shouldn't have to deal with melee, it's a nuisance. Screw the fact that they can take a melee weapon, they shouldn't have to, they are archers.
Melee: I have to run across the field and get within arms length of you to attack. Oh, you get to block my attacks if I DO get that close to you. Oh and anyone can block with 0 skill-point investment.
Funny, archery had no lag issues when I played Darkfall during both the beta (EU server and ping) and EU launch (again, EU server and bad ping). It worked amazing. :rolleyes:
Ah! So there we have it. Throwing should only be viable when done from horseback as a Javazon. I approve with your idea and will support it to the devs. Throwing on foot nerfed to uselessness, Javazons viable due to speed bonus. Wait, that sounds somewhat like it is currently. Wierd.I did, extensively in fact. Never used the guns there either. If you're commenting about JK series in response to:
Only multiplayer melee game: Do you see any JK series servers up and running currently with a respectable community? Yeah, me neither.
Dealing with projectiles you can't dodge: Did you even play JK as a force user? Speed boost, faster base movement anyways, double tapped dodging, FUCKING SABER DEFLECTION TO BLOCK RANGED ATTACKS WITH YOUR SWORD, force-shields? Yeah, WB isn't slug ass slow and lacking all the rest of those....owait
Lances 1-shot to the body. Nice try avoiding the point and making up your own though. :rolleyes:
I also don't think either are OP at the moment specifically because of the ammo nerf to throwing. The big difference: I can LOGICALLY see someone carrying 15 x-bow bolts in a quiver/pouch. I can't LOGICALLY see someone hiding 7 throwing lances up their ass like a goddamned bag of holding. Especially when the silliness of sheathing a pike and such, along with making larger weapons higher slots than 1 to prevent having a spamberge, great axe, shield, and great maul retardedness was already fixed. Multiple throwing lances is just as retarded. So if you want more ammo, give melee back the ability to carry a 2h duel weapon, anti cav weapon, shield and anti-shield weapon back as well.
You fixed everything, I am just a dumbass. Melee doesn't ever have to even get in LoS of the ranged guy. That's how they can avoid ranged altogether. It's fucking LoS ffs. :rolleyes: take cover. Stand behind cover. Etc. The only time melee has to present a target to range is if:
They're stupid and not paying attention
They don't have a shield
The last alive and don't want to delay
They're stupid and don't understand that there is COVER
MELEE
For someone that loves it so much you apparently have no fucking idea how it works.
Range: I stand across the field and snipe dumbasses who run out into the open without shields. When you approach from the front and I can see you a mile away, I kite and move to another spot where you can't reach me and shoot some more.
Melee: All I have to do is run across the field with a shield or flank and use cover and get within arms length of you to 1 shot you. Oh, you can try to block my attacks if YOU DO have a melee weapon. Oh and anyone can block with 0 skill-point investment, but they present no danger at all because they can't swing back, and nobody can block forever.
Back when you played archery was still fairly insignificant compared to magic and melee.Which is why archery and jumpkiting didn't win the first 5 tournaments held.... owait
No they don't, at PT6-8 there is a very good chance for a tin can to walk away from a throwing lance to the body. Here we go with the real life arguments again, seriously, when it comes to game balance, realism has to go as well.Then get rid of the melee slots so that we can carry a pike, shield, crush through weapon and dueling weapon again as well. Or are you saying real life balance is ok for everything but your beloved throwmo style?
:rolleyes:Fixed again.More raving lunacy and bullshit
Get a shield, learn how to use cover, or both. You know what would be great for your Gorath? Join the ninja. I played with them for quite a while and you get a different perspective on how to counter archers and crossbows when you aren't allowed to use a shield or anything but light armor. You obviously have brain damage or something and can't grasp the concept of LoS or the purpose of the shield that you carry on your back.I have a shield, I use cover, I snake, I dodge, I've played non-shielder 2h/polearm/1h'er melee guys. Often with throwing as a sidearm. See while you want to turn this into something about me specifically, as if I have an issue with ranged, I am talking about the subject itself. Other than calling you out for being the biggest pleb to ever pleb all over the forums. Nevermind the fact that you just ignore the fact that I ABUSED THROWMO PLAYSTYLES CONSTANTLY beforehand. Even before c-RPG was known to me I abused the my old friendgy nature of "pure" throwing in native because it has always been flat out balls easy and retarded. I commented about it laughing all the time in VOIP. "Oh it's ez-mode time. I don't feel like putting forth effort. 4 stacks of throwing axes/Jarids/Wardarts here I come." It shouldn't return to that because the nature of pure throwing is just moronic. Sure you should be allowed to do it, no that doesn't mean it should be viable. Just possible.
Which is why archery and jumpkiting didn't win the first 5 tournaments held.... owait
Then get rid of the melee slots so that we can carry a pike, shield, crush through weapon and dueling weapon again as well. Or are you saying real life balance is ok for everything but your beloved throwmo style?
:rolleyes:
"Every melee MUST be a shielder AND/OR hide the whole fucking round being effectively neutralized. Duh" That's basically what you said.
Mindless drivel.
*BTW: The lame nature of melee spam is exactly the reason I sucked it up and accepted the necessary evil of a melee weapon. The taint of "gay" from having a melee stain my ranged character's is never lost on me, but with the melee spam blotting out the earth I deal with it.*
The shitty ones maybe.Proof you're a trolling pleb.
For bias reasons, they can't.Fixed.
Everything else needs to be balanced around logic. EXCEPT MY PERSONAL STYLE OF THROWING. It's ok for ME to have 7 lances shoved up my ass magically, but everyone else must have realistic slot availability and unsheathable tags on their weapons! BIAS BIAS DRIVEL DRIVELYeah, that about sums it up.
Proved that I'm a trolling throwmo biased moron for the third time.
Love the whole "Lame nature of melee 'spam' (proof that you suck, though seeing your score in the servers everytime already proved that long ago)" it's somewhat funny seeing as that is the ENTIRE MECHANIC THAT MAKES THIS GAME UNIQUE FROM BEING A BASIC FPS GAME. And mounts. Hence "MOUNT AND BLADE: WARBAND" not my old friend and arrow: throw spam
I'm sorry Jacob, I really dont feel like having to make my build around your playstyle. dont want to invest 4 points into shield, i need them elsewhere!
that kind of logic annoys me! but gorath already pointed that out
The developers have shown some good ideas like the slot system, which really helped balance out classes and force people to make choices.Fixed.They just have to fix some things that suffered collateral damage from that fix.
(click to show/hide)
Stop talking about "counters" ffs!
I atleast don't want this game to be "rock-paper-scissors" where if you're up against the "wrong" class ur autofuked. That was the case of throwing vs 2h prepatch (fukin' lances!), and I don't want that to return.
Of course, some classes are better against others, but I atleast want everyone to have a chance regardless of class.
That's why I'm in despise of such things as roofcamping archers, turtle shielders, HA etc., because in certain situations, other classes simply stand no chance.
I know people will always find ways to get advantages, but just look at native which is a fucking mess atm because of the friendly archery and throwing.
Of course, some classes are better against others, but I atleast want everyone to have a chance regardless of class.
That's why I'm in despise of such things as roofcamping archers, turtle shielders, HA etc., because in certain situations, other classes simply stand no chance.
When I am in the "certain situation" that I turn to present my back at the enemy archers and stand still while holding a big sign saying shoot me, I stand no chance.
Buff turning your back into the enemy.(click to show/hide)
why are we talking about archers? This isn't about archers. This isn't about HA. Its about throwing being nerfed to hell and then some. I probably should just lock the thread at this point.
"facepalm"
In that situation you do have an option, you can drop the sign and start dodging towards them...
Good idea.
I think you allready got your point across and everyone (but gorath) agreed throwing was nerfed too hard and should be buffed (devs said it will be buffed).