cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Guides => Topic started by: Paul on May 18, 2013, 02:27:37 pm
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With the May 2013 patch nudge got introduced to all gamemodes, at least for 1h without shield players. Updated to the 3.0.3 patch:
So what is nudge? Nudge is a mechanic I stole (at least the idea) from Jedi Knight Academy mod Moviebattles II. There it is used in (very blockheavy) lightsaber duels as a quick interrupt and as a way to punish mistakes. It's a quick slap with the off-hand there, doing very low damage, but being able to knockdown under certain circumstances.
In cRPG I made this to spice up fighting a bit, giving players a new option in facehug distance to break blocks or to create distance to the opponent. Even then shieldless 1handers will still get the most out of nudge though, using their off-hand for quick punches or pushing. All nudges will knockdown a jumping target player.
Nudge is triggered by the v key. Later with forced WSE2 clientside we might get a gamekey instead, so that it will be customisable then. As it is now there are three types of nudge; normal nudge, attack+nudge and defend+nudge. There is a 5 second cooldown between each nudge attempt and during this cooldown the player can neither kick nor nudge.
The amount of stagger it puts on the victim depends on his atack/defend status. The longest stagger will go to an attacking player, then one in non-attacking/defending stance and a blocking player will receive the shortest interuption. All staggers are counterable by its dominating nudge. So an attack nudge can be countered by a normal nudge, a normal nudge by a defend nudge and a defend nudge by an attack nudge.
Shield, unarmed and 1h get all 3 nudge types while polearm and 2h get only 2. Polearm gets normal nudge and defend nudge. 2h gets Normal nudge and a special form of attack nudge(pommel strike).
Low left cross(normal nudge):
Triggered with pressing v while not holding attack or defend. It is a quick punch that causes a very short stagger if it connects. The damage is very low, zero against most armor, even though gauntlet weight helps a bit. On the upside the punch itself is very quick, leaving oneself open for attacks for just a moment. As it is now ALL styles apart fron shield get this nudge
It can knockdown someone who is doing a kick when he is getting nudged - but only when used by 1h without shield.
Quick shield bash(normal nudge):
Shielders get a left to right shieldbash that shortly interupts. Very low damage.
Left straight(attack+nudge):
This one is done by holding attack and then pressing the v key. It is a stronger punch that causes a longer stagger and does a bit more damage than the normal nudge. It has a longer animation duration and it is thus less safe. However it can be a great tool to open up turtlers in group fights and with clever movement one can even land a follow-up attack in one-on-one. Only 1h without shield and unarmed get this.
For 1h without shield one special thing about this nudge is that it can knockdown someone who is attacking while running backwards. It is a shorter knockdown than from blunt weapons, but it still gives good chances to land a follow up attack.
Pommel strike(attack+nudge from overswing position):
2h get something special in form of the pommel strike. It can only be triggered from the overhead strike position. It puts a good amount of stagger on the receiver if it connects.
Left shield bash(attack+nudge):
Shielders get a special outward shield bash that moves the victim a bit to the left side. It is a good tool to get someone out of the way. It does the most damage of all shield bashes but it is still lowish.
Shove(defend+nudge):
This one is triggered with holding the defend key and pressing v. It a pushing move that does (iirc) no damage but moves the target back a bit. Great to create some space or even get away from a pursuer in some situations. Also good for throwing someone into his doom from high places. However it is a long-ass animation and when it fails to connect one can be in serious trouble.
Polearm gets it's own version of this.
Shield shove(defend+nudge):
Shielders get a nudge that allows to push the enemy back. It is rather slow and creates a big opening but it might be a good way push forward or create a chance to run away. No damage at the moment.
When getting hit by a nudge blocking prevents all incoming damage, even from the attack nudges including pommel strike.
Knockdown happens for every type of nudge when the victim is jumping or aiming/releasing a ranged weapon.
Fin.
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Will retire into swashbuckler
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Great stuff :shock:
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...swashbucklers...
No, you cannot change the meaning of a word with hundreds of years of history: Swashbuckling means making a noise by beating a weapon or hand onto a shield. I'm sorry, I'm not being pedantic, you just CANNOT change the meaning of the word. Its like saying, yeah Im cavalry, because I shoot a bow.... it doesn't make sense, STOP DOING IT.
DONT take my word for it, look the word swashbuckle up yourself. FFS ppl, stop showing your ignorance.
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No, you cannot change the meaning of a word with hundreds of years of history: Swashbuckling means making a noise by beating a weapon or hand onto a shield. I'm sorry, I'm not being pedantic, you just CANNOT change the meaning of the word. Its like saying, yeah Im cavalry, because I shoot a bow.... it doesn't make sense, STOP DOING IT.
DONT take my word for it, look the word swashbuckle up yourself. FFS ppl, stop showing your ignorance.
This isn't how language works. Are you not gay or something? You don't sound very happy.
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Nice, can you nudge with no weapon? (fists)
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Yes moncho its called punching
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except that punching in the standard old way does not stun or have a chance to knockdown... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Maybe cause you punch like a little girl
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Just tested it on EU 1 and with fists pressing V does nothing.
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On DTV it works with all weapons + shieldbash, just as it used to work. Very usefull there, thank you for not dumbing it down there :)
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One special thing about this nudge is that it can knockdown someone who is attacking while running backwards.
I'm sorry, so it can do it with some % chance? Or will it always knockdown in that situation?
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always
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Will retire into swashbuckler
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Will normal nudge work with Longsword or bastard sword or another 1\2h weapon? I mean, all this weapons left one of you hands free, if you do not attack or block.
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As kicks weren't already stupid enough...
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I have 2 concerns:
Is it possible to make the knockdown on a backpedaling attacker only for the swing+nudge? The normal nudge is so good and quick that you'll get that knockdown often. I like the normal nudge as a momentum interrupter since the stun is small, while the real offensive benefits come from the attack+nudge.
Also, is there a way to bind the controls for nudge?
Other than that, I really like it. I am just worried about it being too strong.
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As kicks weren't already stupid enough...
I agree that the kicks we have now are just retarded. But this nudge thingy could be quite interesting. I just hope it wont turn out to something completely OP: (knockdown + hit +) kick + hit + nudge + kick + hit + nudge + kick + nudge .... etc :D
You know, to keep your opponent staggered with nudge while your kick is on cooldown :D You can already pull out some insane combos with knockdown weapons + kicks :rolleyes:
Something like this could be done for 2 hander where the character punches the opponent with his weapons hilt to push the opponent away a bit. For polearms the same effect with "cross checking" like on ice hockey :wink: And shielders ofc can just use their shield to push the opponent away. This way shieldless 1handers could get some unique features, and other melee players could get this useful "tool" for the battlefield.
Edit:
Is it possible to make the knockdown on a backpedaling attacker only for the swing+nudge? The normal nudge is so good and quick that you'll get that knockdown often.
The knockdown effect could have it's separate range, so that it only knocks down players who are REALLY close and backpedaling. I agree that otherwise the knockdown could happen way too often.
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Best score on EU1:
Plate armour + Steel Pick w/o shield.
Good job of thinking this addition through... -.-
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Glad we can finally use this, I was getting tired of being 'nudged' by that one guy on EU and not being able to fight back.
What was his name....
Pete? Patrick? PoshPoshCoolGuy27?
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Best score on EU1:
Plate armour + Steel Pick w/o shield.
Good job of thinking this addition through... -.-
Haha, I wanted to try the nudge and the only items that were available in the armoury were plate and a steel pick. Thought it would be horribad, but on those urban maps it was fucking awesome. I don't think the nudge mattered a lot for my effectivity though, I missed about 60% of them and people can't block a steel pick anyway. Most of the time I just did not swing and nudged instead just because it is funny, when a swing would've finished the job as well. Steel pick without shield and plate is just not as bad a build as one would think.
I haven't played enough with it to really know whether it is OP. It still requires you to facehug which is already a weakness of 1h without shield. I pretty much used the one with the attack held exclusively, it is like a kick but then less static. I noticed some issues that nudging people allowed me to move through them. Although lulzy, nudge, move through them and hit them in the back of the head before they can turn around, it's a bit weird. Maybe the nudge effects being pretty much instant is something to think about for nerfing.
I am honestly impressed at the way it is implemented in battle on the first try, it is not hugely useless (like the chamberkick), or blatantly OP. Very good job.
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Maybe the nudge effects being pretty much instant is something to think about for nerfing.
Yeah, certainly. That's a lot harder to implement though, which is one reason why nudges are exclusively for 1h + no shield.
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I'm a bit concerned about short 2-handers. With those you're pretty much forced to facehug just to stay in reach. I fear that if you can S key and pull some weird nudge/slash combos with this, it will just make people go for longer weapons, which already were more powerful.
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Its kinda weird, that 1h shielder doesnt have shield bash or nudge,
its like only 1h gets benefit of this?
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can you also make nudge with just fists only and fist/shield, also throwing weapon: when you are in throwing mode you have a hand free.
just some thoughts.
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I love how Paul seems to be a 1h no shield... (profile pic)
:P
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I would love to see something like this for pole and hopliteplayers. because we almost cannot hit a facehugger it would be nice to have the facility to push them back into attacking distance.
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Kind of neat, but its not really just a buff for specific 1 hand without shield class. Its a buff for all shielders for when someone breaks their shield, or against axe users and we aren't in a situation were we need any buffs for shielders. Quite the opposite really
Not really a fan of disabling abilities anyway. In the short term its a cool new feature, but long term it will just be a cheap way to kill someone imo
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Kind of neat, but its not really just a buff for specific 1 hand without shield class. Its a buff for all shielders for when someone breaks their shield, or against axe users and we aren't in a situation were we need any buffs for shielders. Quite the opposite really
Not really a fan of disabling abilities anyway. In the short term its a cool new feature, but long term it will just be a cheap way to kill someone imo
Not true. I just changed class for 1h shielder, but you cant nudge or use shield bash. So its just buff for 1h without shield.
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Not true. I just changed class for 1h shielder, but you cant nudge or use shield bash. So its just buff for 1h without shield.
It's a small and indirect buff (although the terms buff and nerf should really only be used when referring to stat changes imo) to shielders because while they can not use nudges in conjunction with a shield, when their shield breaks or they put their shield away, they do. Two-handers and polearm wielders have no such opportunity.
Also, the only extremely useful nudge that I perform regularly is the normal nudge against a backpedaling foe with a swing held. That one is really nice, but I haven't become proficient with the others yet.
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It was said that other classes will get their own nudge-like features in the future, but not as powerful as for 1h no shield.
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2h and pole nudges would look good if they would be done by hitting with the weapon. 2h hit with the pommel or hilt and poles could hit with the "usually not so lethal end" of the weapon or do "cross checking" for the faster version.
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No, you cannot change the meaning of a word with hundreds of years of history: Swashbuckling means making a noise by beating a weapon or hand onto a shield. I'm sorry, I'm not being pedantic, you just CANNOT change the meaning of the word. Its like saying, yeah Im cavalry, because I shoot a bow.... it doesn't make sense, STOP DOING IT.
DONT take my word for it, look the word swashbuckle up yourself. FFS ppl, stop showing your ignorance.
swash·buck·ler [swosh-buhk-ler, swawsh-]
noun
a swaggering swordsman, soldier, or adventurer; daredevil.
1h without shield fits that definition to a T. Don't be so literal.
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1h stupid OP now. Being able to knock someone down while running at them? Yeah All other classes are fucked.
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Maybe closer to on par/slightly imbalanced in favour of 1h. Shouldn't every playstyle have a decent, balanced counter? Isn't it fair that being an skey hero is risky when fighting a short reach, weaker damage 1hander?
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But going along with 1h is the abillity to spam feints, very fast attacks, and quickness b/c of shorter weapons. The devil is in the details.
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Literally every meelee weapon can spam feints, its up to you to fall for it. If anything, 1h is the riskiest weapon to over feint with, given the shortest reach (on average) and highest likelyhood to whiff off a bad angle.
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The main problem I have with nudge is that 1. There is no risk involved for the nudger as this is so quick it doesn't leave you open at all and 2. there is no counter.
Let's look at the kick: very powerful but hard move. Leaves you open AND immobile for like 2 secs. Also if I know a player will try to kick me I can dodge it by circling around him or by stopping before his foot is in range. It's all about timing!!!
Nudge: no right timing, you can do it while moving, no counter, no backfire if you miss. It might be hard to connect but it doesn't matter because you can try it every 3 seconds without any worries and there is no reason not to.
The only thing you can do against the nudge is S keying to stay away from 1 handers, but even that is risky since you'll get knockdown if they catch you!
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The main problem I have with nudge is that 1. There is no risk involved for the nudger as this is so quick it doesn't leave you open at all and 2. there is no counter.
Let's look at the kick: very powerful but hard move. Leaves you open AND immobile for like 2 secs. Also if I know a player will try to kick me I can dodge it by circling around him or by stopping before his foot is in range. It's all about timing!!!
Nudge: no right timing, you can do it while moving, no counter, no backfire if you miss. It might be hard to connect but it doesn't matter because you can try it every 3 seconds without any worries and there is no reason not to.
The only thing you can do against the nudge is S keying to stay away from 1 handers, but even that is risky since you'll get knockdown if they catch you!
Agreed. Basically, nudge should consume your attack phase, not augment it. You should be trading the opportunity to attack to instead interrupt your opponent. The motive should be to either disrupt their rhythm or enable a teammate to hit them, but NOT enable a free hit from the nudge itself or from the "free" followup kick.
Basically, nudge should have no value in a duel situation other than disrupting the flow of the fight. Its utility should be to allow your teammates to get a hit on a defensive player.
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Yeah what Phew said!
I also feel like the cooldown is a little too short.
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How I feel about nudges:
Low left cross(normal nudge):
Triggered with pressing v while not holding attack or defend. It is a quick punch that causes a very short stagger if it connects. The damage is very low, zero against most armor, even though gauntlet weight helps a bit. On the upside the punch itself is very quick, leaving oneself open for attacks for just a moment.
One special thing about this nudge is that it can knockdown someone who is attacking while running backwards. It is a shorter knockdown than from blunt weapons, but it still gives good chances to land a follow up attack.
The stun is really long. Definitely not a "very short". I mean, the animation of stagger itself is quick, but the actual stun last much longer, comparable with the kick stun.
Left straight(attack+nudge):
This one is done by holding attack and then pressing the v key. It is a stronger punch that causes a longer stagger and does a bit more damage than the normal nudge. It has a longer animation duration and it is thus less safe. However it can be a great tool to open up turtlers in group fights and with clever movement one can even land a follow-up attack in one-on-one.
It can knockdown someone who is doing a kick when he is getting nudged.
Funny feature - it only knockdowns when you kick while backpedalling (doesn't work if you're backpedalling in walking mode), and sometimes you can block instantly once knocked down, looks funny.
Shove(defend+nudge):
This one is triggered with holding the defend key and pressing v. It a pushing move that does (iirc) no damage but moves the target back a bit. Great to create some space or even get away from a pursuer in some situations. Also good for throwing someone into his doom from high places. However it is a long-ass animation and when it fails to connect one can be in serious trouble.
Seems to work instantly despite of the long animation.
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I agree with Phew only for the fast nudge. I think the attack/block nudge should be useful in a duel, too, but with more risk involved. Attack nudge stun needs to be decreased, also, and the attack nudge stun feels a lot less smooth than the quick nudge.
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Why the fuck do I get knocked down with a nudge?
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Just wondering if nudge will possibly be rebindable at some point? I don't play with WASD thus the V key just isn't viable for me :(.
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Nudge is triggered by the v key. Later with forced WSE2 clientside we might get a gamekey instead, so that it will be customisable then.
So later I guess.
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Fingers crossed.
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1h stupid OP now. Being able to knock someone down while running at them? Yeah All other classes are fucked.
I agree you friend
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In Australia, nudging is hilariously overpowered.
If you know how to do the attack hold nudge and walk around the stunned enemy, they can never block the hit.
I only have 50 wpf but I am using a Broad Short Sword and I believe all swings, including stab can perform this.
High damage, low speed weapons seem to be more useful now as, if they can indeed hit after a nudge then you simply want to do enormous damage after it.
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In Australia, nudging is hilariously overpowered.
If you know how to do the attack hold nudge and walk around the stunned enemy, they can never block the hit.
I only have 50 wpf but I am using a Broad Short Sword and I believe all swings, including stab can perform this.
High damage, low speed weapons seem to be more useful now as, if they can indeed hit after a nudge then you simply want to do enormous damage after it.
Yeah, I've been hit with a Military Hammer after a nudge (the fast/easy one), no kick required. And I'm raising my shield the whole time (103 speed shield).
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Yeah, I've been hit with a Military Hammer after a nudge (the fast/easy one), no kick required. And I'm raising my shield the whole time (103 speed shield).
:twisted:
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Nudge: not a real problem in 1v1's unless your fighting a really low pinged dude you can match your footwork, but in a gank....makes shielding pointless. Luckily on my main I just maul the little bundle of stickss who you just KNOW are not trying for anything but the nudge. Have fun nudging when your on the ground being kick-mauled repeatedly, exploiters.
Anywho: Nudge is broken, remove it or make the self disable long enough that it's actually not just a win button. Also, having it hardcoded to V is probably giving Mauwits and Jarlek severe hand damage, having to have a finger on V the entire time.
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not op in 1v1?
People can just keep trying with no downside while fighting normally, spamming it while attacking. Eventually they land one and fight is over, they'll kick you after hit lands for double stun, then might have time to nudge again after that for triple. Best used with blunt weapon for chance of knockdown too, you just get chainstunned till death.
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Duel server is dominated by guys that just tape down their V key. There is no downside to attempting a nudge every 3 seconds, so why not enjoy the free hits when one lands? And I've experienced this combo before:
-Nudged
-Kicked
-Hit, knocked down
-Hit
-Kicked
-Hit, dead
That's 3 free hits with no counter. It reminds me of the stun combos in other games for assassin characters, except you don't have to sneak up on someone to execute them. You just press a button.
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Nudge is broken
Sadly it's true. Nudge is broken in both 1 vs 1 and gank situation. It's funny mechanism, but broken. I have no real problem with that since I'm 1h no shield, so in the worst case I'll start making nudge all time like a few others :P
There is no downside to attempting a nudge every 3 seconds, so why not enjoy the free hits when one lands?
There's a small window when you can hit someone who is trying to make nudge, but it basicaly force you to spam all the time.
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Before nudge, I used to enjoy fighting Rusty, Maduin, and the top swashbucklers. I could win, but it required concentration and perfect execution. Now I'm just a bug on their windshield, with no prayer of winning the fight (save resorting to nudge myself, but that's not my thing).
Any mechanic that can change a 50/50 fight into a 1/99 fight by pressing one button is a broken mechanic.
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Updated nudge guide. I'll just pretend the patch already happened because I'm kinda sick waiting for it.
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There is a new thing now. Apparently 2h heroes. They have some random 1h equiped, than they nudge, than they instantly kick and by some magic they have enough time to change their weapon into 2h and overhead you in the face all while you are staggered.....wat?
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There is a new thing now. Apparently 2h heroes. They have some random 1h equiped, than they nudge, than they instantly kick and by some magic they have enough time to change their weapon into 2h and overhead you in the face all while you are staggered.....wat?
Nord_Fjell has mastered this, another sore loser who needs to abuse a broken mechanic to be a hero.
He used to be a shitty polearmer, he switched to a 2h hero and he became pro.
ALL HAIL 2H HEROES MASTER RACE
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Nord_Fjell has mastered this, another sore loser who needs to abuse a broken mechanic to be a hero.
He used to be a shitty polearmer, he switched to a 2h hero and he became pro.
ALL HAIL 2H HEROES MASTER RACE
don't be so insulting panos my good sir, fjell is a friendly guy he just wants to fit in you know :D
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don't be so insulting panos my good sir, fjell is a friendly guy he just wants to fit in you know :D
By default, when I see a player abusing something in order to be "good"
I lose all respect for him.
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Saw STR_Nokeyboard on EU2 with a 1 hander on siege yday, now don't get me wrong he's a damn good player anyways, but considering he seems to have put away his mighty glaive for this nudge business says a lot methinks.
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By default, when I see a player abusing something in order to be "good"
I lose all respect for him.
ah valid reason i guess but people will do whats most fun for them, i personally like roleplaying to the extreme but others find it more fun to look silly etc etc. can't blame him for doing something that he finds fun.
but yeahh i see your point about going the easy path.
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After reading the changes in the OP I am really looking forward to the next patch.
That will add a lot of new fighting technics to master.
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Paul, please please please put nudge and kick on the same cooldown.
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Read the guide.
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I really like that the current nudge, although broken, is changing peoples strategies and how they play, and I really look forward to how these new nudges will affect combat. Let the whining begin!
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Read the guide.
Read the whole thing and missed that part. Thanks!
Also, you should change the Left Straight section that says "with clever movement one can even land a follow-up attack in one-on-one" to "unless you have some kind of severe physical or mental handicap, you will get a free follow-up attack."
Corruption got 4 free hits in a row against me last night using Left Straights followed by a normal left swing from his 100 speed weapon. He didn't have to do any "clever movement", just stand right in front of me and left swing. I had a 103 speed shield equipped and was holding right mouse button whole time.
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He promised me patch and didn't deliver.
Updated nudge guide. I'll just pretend the patch already happened because I'm kinda sick waiting for it.
chadz's "the lazy" title is well deserved... :rolleyes:
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Where's bow nudge :P
Also could you make the nudge key something easier to reach, like R.
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One more suggestion - it seems that starting a "shield nudge" (any type) causes your shield to became instantly penetrable.
It happened to me few times that when I started the pushing shield nudge (block + v) in very close distance against a thrusting player - the thrust damaged me through the shield if the thrust was started in the same moment as my nudge. Visually my shield was still protecting me.
Imho shield should stay solid all the time. Maybe mechanics which makes arrows coming from lest hit the shield when you just run with your shield loose on your left arm shall be adapted into nudge.
Anyway - good thing that nudge is. Brings some extra flavour.
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One more suggestion - it seems that starting a "shield nudge" (any type) causes your shield to became instantly penetrable.
It happened to me few times that when I started the pushing shield nudge (block + v) in very close distance against a thrusting player - the thrust damaged me through the shield if the thrust was started in the same moment as my nudge. Visually my shield was still protecting me.
Imho shield should stay solid all the time. Maybe mechanics which makes arrows coming from lest hit the shield when you just run with your shield loose on your left arm shall be adapted into nudge.
Anyway - good thing that nudge is. Brings some extra flavour.
Block shield nudge is crazy powerful on siege, since it's basically a 1-button kill that ignores armor (fall death). Because of this, it should probably drop your block throughout the animation like it does now.
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Well I like Warband for its realism and not implementing any manga wizards (if not to mention one guy on a flying carpet).
Ofc balance issues are sometimes acceptable, but some obvious "weirdnessesses" are too idiotical to live on (heavy lance with worst damage than normal one or guys thrusting you with a 3 m long pike while standing 50 cm away from you or the cutting power of axe's handle etc.). It just ruins my pleasure.
The punching force of shield nudge can be balanced by using both characters (+ equipment) weight * their strength * speed vectors as factors.
Then strong heavily armed man running fast would punch back a standing still lady in a woolen dress (if not to say "agi w****" :twisted:) and not vice versa.
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I like nudges in current state, though I have a few problems with them.
Normal nudge. Stagger is too short. It not only doesnt open the defence for time long enough to land a hit, which is okay according to me, but it also doesnt prevent the victim from making attack almost at the same moment when he's hit by nudge. Which is not okay.
Nudge breaking through the block. How can I defend myself against it? It seems pretty hard to carry out, but I saw one guy making it almost every time :P
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Updated the guide to the new patch.
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Maybe it would be reasonable to remove knockdown from nudging friendly archers and xbowers. It's really funny, but also easy to abuse, I think that there's no possibility to report this nudge - someone would have reported me already if it had been possible :P
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With the last patch, you can report it.
They just don't report you because you are a Witch
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Ranged and jumper knockdown nudges actually have no damage deal part so it is not reportable at the moment. Will be fixed.
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Ranged and jumper knockdown nudges actually have no damage deal part so it is not reportable at the moment. Will be fixed.
Paul, I re-read the OP several times and didn't see the "ranged knockdown" mechanic discussed, but I discovered it accidentally the other day when I Shield Shoved an archer and was surprised to see him hit the deck.
Could you please clarify a few things about this knockdown mechanic:
-Does this occur with all types of nudges?
-Does it work vs. bows, crossbows, and throwing, or just a subset of these?
Also, I shield shoved a horse the other day, and was disappointed that it had no effect. Considering how incredibly difficult this is, maybe you could consider allowing certain nudges to rear horses (or do something else interesting)?
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Knockdown happens for every type of nudge when the victim is jumping or aiming/releasing a ranged weapon.
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This explains a lot! I snuck up behind an archer in a gatehouse the other day and thought that instead of backstab him i'd do the honourable thing and launch him over the edge into oblivion with shield nudge. I was so surprised to see him go instantly sprawling on the floor without moving forwards at all or going over the edge that i gave him time to stand up, draw a melee weapon and utterly school me, scrub that i am lol
Yeah, I'd prefer that Shield Shove not knockdown archers. Shoving them off the wall while they are unaware is more fun that knocking them down.
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I feel like nudging a horse with your shield, hands, or weapon shouldn't do anything. I mean it's a horse it's tougher, heavier, and bigger than you so it shouldn't do anything. Especially against the war horses.
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Neat guide.
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Tested shield nudges against jumpers. It only seemed to work if you time it the moment the opponent lands, otherwise it just misses.
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Did you try looking upwards a bit, towards the center of the victim?
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Paul,
Just a comment about the defensive shield shove: I often find myself approaching archers/throwers/xbowers with my shield raised while they are holding a shot waiting for me to drop my block. Ideally, there would be some way to run up and bump them, interrupting their hold. Unfortunately, this isn't possible in practice, since the bump mechanic seems to only occur when the melee player presses their attack button, which of course lowers their block and generally results in them getting shot in the face. It would make sense if the defensive shield shove was a useful tool for interrupting ranged, since you have to be holding block anyway while approaching them. However, it doesn't work this way, because the slow shield shove animation cannot block projectiles at any time during the animation, and the ranged player has plenty of time to release their shot into your head before the nudge interrupts them.
This is what I propose:
Allow the defensive shield shove to block projectiles (and maybe melee?) during the early part of the animation, but shift the "vulnerable" window later in time so you are still open for the same total amount of time. This would actually make it a useful defensive tool, but you would be severely punished if you missed your nudge. The current implementation doesn't seem to match your intent of making this a defensive tool, since attempting it is more of a defensive liability than an asset.
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Did you try looking upwards a bit, towards the center of the victim?
I will try this next time, thanks. I did not know you could aim it vertically, so the shield looked like it simply passed through.
@Phew,
I proposed something similar to that a few weeks ago (only for projectiles), but it's divisive.
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I think only cmp could do that in WSE2. I don't see a way in the on the Module System level.
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I think only cmp could do that in WSE2. I don't see a way in the on the Module System level.
Oh, I thought you implemented nudge entirely within the Module System. I assumed you specifically coded something that turned off passive projectile blocks during all parts of nudge animations.
What about the ranged bump mechanic? Could that be changed so that RMB interrupted like LMB does? Would accomplish roughly the same thing.
but it's divisive.
Someone would have to be pretty biased toward ranged to argue for the status quo (that ranged basically get one free shot against shielders in each pointe-blank engagement).
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Ranged bump is WSE2 too. Can't do shit.
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Ranged bump is WSE2 too. Can't do shit.
Clone cmp?
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during shieldbash it should change from the big active forcefield to the smaller passive one according to cmp. seems ok.
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I was wondering, is it possible to nudge someone with the overhead pommel strike, to stagger them/put them off balance, then follow up with another overhead pommel strike, to knock them down?
This could be seen as a form of grappling.
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Nudge was changed somehow? I don't think it was possible before last patch to nudge other players so far away. I'm aware that there are people with plenty of strength, but I have more or less the same build and my nudge is much stronger that it used to be. Or at least that's how I feel.
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I made a nudging overview about damage and distance. 8-)
http://forum.melee.org/beginner's-help-and-guides/nudge-damage-in-crpg/msg1158868/#msg1158868