cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Topsnus on April 30, 2011, 06:52:14 pm
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it gives me that message every time i spawn. But im only using war darts, and have fairly high wpf, so what is going on with that?
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I can't confirm it but I believe that you need a certain amount of WPF for each PT level you have.
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Really? That is insanely stupid. Is the point to make it so that there is only one possible throwing build? This mod has seriously deteriorated from the old days when you could legitimately create any build you could think of, to now, where there are like 4-5 builds, and you either make one of those, or you are at a disadvantage. This mod has lost pretty much everything that made it great.
I have never been a huge grinder, but back in the beginning, im talking before plate was even added, and the vaegir armor was the best stuff around, and the game gave grinders a pretty big advantage, i still had more fun with it. Because you could say i want a character with x, and y, as the two weapons. Then you could make that character, and it might even turn out to be great. Now the entire game is, do you want a 2H, Polearm, Thrower, Archer, or 2H/xbow. The grind is worse, because although it is much easier to get stuff, the stuff has little to no value, because it is so easy to get. The result is a game where the grind has been reduced, but is considerably worse than in the begining, when you strove to get something and it meant something when you got it.
Thanks for the info, sorry to hear that this mod is pretty much the opposite of what it used to be....
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Really? That is insanely stupid. Is the point to make it so that there is only one possible throwing build? This mod has seriously deteriorated from the old days when you could legitimately create any build you could think of, to now, where there are like 4-5 builds, and you either make one of those, or you are at a disadvantage. This mod has lost pretty much everything that made it great.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-_sABor77E&feature=player_detailpage#t=13s
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I like this idea personally, if you want awesome powerful throwing weapons, you're going to have to dedicate a good amount of WPF to throwing.
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I can't use my throwing nuclear bombs and spam like a pure 2h without any tradeoffs anymore WAAAAGH :wink:
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I can't confirm it but I believe that you need a certain amount of WPF for each PT level you have.
I saw devs saying something like 14wpf per skill point in pd/pt on irc today.
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I saw devs saying something like 14wpf per skill point in pd/pt on irc today.
Can someone confirm ?
I love the idea, it nerf nuker thrower who were really overpower and make a lot more sens than before.
More strenght you got, hardest it is to be accurate (wich make sens).
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Oh goodie ANOTHER nerf for throwers.
:rolleyes:
To be honest it's not a problem for dedicated throwers as they have more than enough wpf, but it does mess with people who want to use throwing as a backup against horses rather than a spear.
To add something like this on top of reducing the stack sizes AND making javelins, jarids and throwing spears take up 2 stacks is just taking things waaay too far.
Already in my opinion wardarts make all the larger throwing weapons totally pointless, which would you rather have 6 javelins and nothing else for your 4 slots...or 21 war darts AND a 1slot melee weapon?...or 14 and a 2 slot, or a 1 slot shield and 1 slot melee weapon.
I guess everyone should just be the same and take a spear now...yawn.
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Oh goodie ANOTHER nerf for throwers.
:rolleyes:
At last!
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Dont whine, the devs clearly want you to go balanced instead of full str.
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devs are making good decisions, however the way how these changes become public is in one word: horrible.
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This will hopefully go rid of the full str stone throwers. They were funny, but really not balanced. Pinpoint accuracy, very good shot and reload speed, good damage (12 PT on a 11 blunt weapon is much, trust me), and nearly infinite ammo (although you could not get it back, you just had to pick something else to throw on the battlefield).
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still sad that we only get 2 throwing axes now...
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I agree that this will end the really high PT characters...though does anyone actually know what not having enough wpf does yet? Does it only allow you to use PT up to the amount of wpf you have?
This change does is make it harder for people to play a character which has a little bit of throwing to back up a different skill, which is something I have more of a problem with.
As I said a little bit of throwing is a nice alternative to a spear when taking on horses, but now that's been weakened a bit.
To be fair this change won't affect many as generally speaking say 4 PT and 56 Throwing wpf isn't exactly much to put into a build that wants a little bit of throwing on the side.
Certainly this change isn't as major as the effect of the 2 slot throwing weapons. Why would anyone take 3 javelins or jarids when instead they could take 4 axes, 14 darts or 16 daggers/shuriken.
still sad that we only get 2 throwing axes now...
2 Throwing Axes for 1 slot isn't too bad, at least they didn't make them 2 slot. My shielder with a little side in throwing still gets good use out of his 4 Axes alongside his 1 slot shield and 1h weapon. Even just 2 if you wanted to take a second melee weapon or a 2 slot shield is usually enough to make lighter horses turn away from you just by looking like you are going to throw.
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This change does is make it harder for people to play a character which has a little bit of throwing to back up a different skill, which is something I have more of a problem with.
Finally.
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I've heard this is also true for powerstrike and powerdraw. Would really appreciate a framework from developers so we don't accidentally gimp a build because we didnt build it the way they like it.
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Finally.
The thing is this change relating to power throw and wpf is ON TOP of the reduced stack sizes and increased slot numbers.
I agree that before when you had someone with PT 5-6, 8 heavy axes, heavy shield and a good melee weapon and all 1h wpf it was too much, but now things seem to have gone a bit far in the other direction.
The reduction of the number of axes in a stack was enough of a balance in my opinion.
Though does anyone know how this actually affects things? Like if you dont have enough wpf for your power throw does it just count it up to how much you do have enough for?
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devs are making good decisions, however the way how these changes become public is in one word: horrible.
At least allow for a respec if they are changing stuff like that.
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Testing Today I learned that its 20 WPN PROF per power throw skill point.
Meaning to throw "1" throwing lance in my light plate outfit, i would need 151 wpn prof to use "it" accurately.
I can no longer spear people in the back, then throw my lance into a horse, because the damn thing will go WAY right or left.
Also without the 20 per skill point, you wont be able to pick up any missed shots.
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Best change ever
Every weapon should have a WPF requirement
Deal with it
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So xbows should need wpf too right? or is the damage reduction enough for you?
To throw accurately 151 wpn prof is insane, only spammers bring there prof that high over 100
That and it makes your upcoming build for throwing based on weapon master 6, because any lower and you cant reach above 146
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My thrower is pretty much screwed over. I had put all my wpf into throwing to get it to 120 and I have 12 PT atm. 12 PT would mean 240 wpf which is impossible.
I can still use my weapons and I can still pick up my missed throwing axes, but the accuracy is as if I don't have any wpf at all.
I can now use my character effectively on sieges, since people don't have much room to dodge on ladders and walls, but anything further than 10 meters away is sheer luck if I hit them.
As it seems now, the only viable dedicated thrower build is 18/18 and spare points converted to more agility.
Have fun dodging my pinpoint accurate, even faster (due to having 150+wpf), 6 PT heavy axes.
Just sad that when I hit you it hurts a bit, but doesn't kill you.
*EDIT*
With 20 wpf per point in PT I came up with this 21/15 build (surprisingly):
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 21
Agility: 15
Hit points: 66
Skills to attributes: 2
Ironflesh: 5
Power Strike: 7
Shield: 0
Athletics: 5
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 7
Weapon Master: 5
One Handed: 60
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 140
Just combine wardarts or throwing axes with a 1h weapon and you're set. Steel pick+7 PS is going to hurt when it get's up close and personal. 5 athletics allows for decent movement.
Looks solid. I hope I get the chance to respec :)
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Best change ever
Every weapon should have a WPF requirement
Deal with it
Compared to say ... horse archers? which if anything got buffed by the last patch.
I agree that throwing lances were bullshite, but rendering throwing so underpowered compared to bows and crossbows simply because of one unbalanced weapon and a few min/maxed builds with ridiculously high PT is pretty poor.
It isn't like bows, crossbows and shields weren't already easy and simple counters to throwers.
While I do mostly play infantry the massive difference after the patch between the damage done to throwers and the buffs made to archers is most obvious when I play as a mounted thrower. Before it was difficult but not impossible to go toe to toe with horse archers and with a bit of luck or skill bring down their horse or rider with throwing weapons, but now the thrower has far less shots, far less powerful shots as jarids have been rendered useless by being 2 slots for 3, while horse archers get way more shots, and stronger shots, that are more accurate and have much better range.
It is beyond me how anyone could have thought throwers were more deserving of a depowering than horse archers.
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Testing Today I learned that its 20 WPN PROF per power throw skill point.
You didn't test very well.
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You didn't test very well.
Maybe you didnt test your code very well
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Rumors say that it's 14 wpf per pt, not 20
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Maybe you didnt test your code very well
If the code says a = x, then a = x. There's not much to test.
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Hint - armor weight penalty is applied first. This mean that the wpf requirement = 14*(pt-level)+penalty
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IF it's 14wpf that mean the highest useful PT you can get is 9 because with 10PT you only get 133wpf while you need 140wpf wearing no armor.
That sux :cry: , so much for diversity
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3rd time want to delete my post - but don't know how ^)
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So I'm not sure how this works, if you don't have enough wpf then does the extra skill point of power w/e just dissapear?
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So I'm not sure how this works, if you don't have enough wpf then does the extra skill point of power w/e just dissapear?
You get a rather large decrease in accuracy.
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I have 80 wpf and 9 PT, and I get the message. I notice less accuracy in weapons such as jarids, but throwing knives and war darts seem to be fine.
Is the deficiency based on the PT requirement, or do I just need to be more attentive and my accuracy really is decreased?