I would only be thankful when I receive a pm with a link to a nzb/torrent ;)
didnt understand much. but I guess it's about the nice good turks at war with the nasty byzantine empire? :)
didnt understand much. but I guess it's about the nice good turks at war with the nasty byzantine empire? :)Yes it was about turkish bravery 100k against 1k, nice movie though I dont get why they say the movie is propaganda, when every usa movie is propaganda. Its way the movies are.
Yes it was about turkish bravery 100k against 1k, nice movie though I dont get why they say the movie is propaganda, when every usa movie is propaganda. Its way the movies are.
Jeez, it's just a movie dude. Stop getting all worked up about it and just enjoy the pretty pictures.
is this turkish porn? lol
Any British movie about how they failed in Gelibolu- 1915 ?
Bitch , please...
Ofc its about Nice good Turks ending the evil rotten Byzantine Empire .
What did you expect ?
Any French movies about Agincourt ?
Any British movie about how they failed in Gelibolu- 1915 ?
Dat prejudice...
If you like medieval movies , watch this film DVD is not out yet wait for it when its on the market YOU CAN TORRENT :lol:
I love how you talk like Ottoman never captured Istanbul and Byzantine Empire never opressed orthodoxes to gain favour and support of pope.
For Orthodox people , Sultan Mehmed was a savior instead of occupier.
So yeah , good turks saved people of istanbul from evil bymy old friendtiums.
I wonder why the EU didn't want to admit Turkey....??
I wonder why the EU didn't want to admit Turkey....??
Turkey is schizophrenic, they worship Ataturk in the same manner that they worship the Quran, and never see how it's contradictory. Well every country is "schizophrenic" and pulled by different influences anyways, but it's very pronounced in Turkey. The cliche is that it is between "west" and "east", culturally, but you have the pro-"western" factions, the pro-"eastern" factions, and mixes of everything in between.Give me 1 example that are not jihadist muslim country except Turkey?
Koyama if you honestly believe that the Sultanate of Rûm was "liberating" the orthodox you have a serious comprehension issue. If this is true, where is the large orthodox church of turkey today? Why did the orthodox Patriarch leave, if he was so damn happy to be liberated from evil Byz emperors?
Yes, I will definetely revise my opinions after listening to a retarded nationalist. Especially YOU, Cicero.I didnt want you to revise your opinions , i gave you info which u didnt understand or didnt "want" to understand.
I thought you would actually correct me with historical evidence, since there's tons of evidence the Orthodox church was treated the same as any other "minor" religion in the Ottoman empire. So yes, they were relatively tolerant. Then there's the tons of pogroms, ethnic cleansings, mass "deportations", etc...since then, especially in the 19th and 20th century. So your offense at the way Germans don't allow "ezan" is just completely hypocritical, because at least they recognize the attrocities they have committed in the past, unlike a certain "free" country where it's just buried under a mass of propaganda and feel-good "we are so awesome" bullshit.
"Christians (Oriental Orthodoxy, Greek Orthodox and Armenian Apostolic) and Jews (Sephardi), who comprise the non-Muslim population have dramatically declined since the early 19th century onwards from 25% to less than 0.7% today, and are continuing to steadily decline since the year 2000 as well."You do realize that Ottoman Empire is not the same as Republic of Turkey right ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Turkey
What didn't I understand? That you're trying to paint the Seljuk Turks and then the Ottoman empire as some sort of delightful multiculturalist utopia to justify it's expansionism? Yes, I think I grasped that.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082432/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082432/)It's an Aussie movie not British .
This one was great. Fucking Mel Gibson. Hes real guy, he beats women.
You do realize that Ottoman Empire is not the same as Republic of Turkey right ?
Empire consists of people with different cultures , different ethnicity and different religions while states have a single major group of people who share the same or relative characteristics .
You quote a wikipedia sentence which mentions that there is a decrease on non muslim population in Turkey starting from early 19th century . The author of this sentence is a bit retarded because in early 19th century there was no Turkey , there was Ottoman Empire instead and it began to lose lands . Most of the non-muslim groups in Ottoman Empire were living in conquered eastern european regions (What a surprise eh ? ) when the empire began losing those provinces , drop in non-muslim society period has started .You should be a real biased retarded fuck to see "Turks are pressing christians to convert them for centuries" out of this fact. There are lots of muslims in eastern europe today and its because of the influence of Ottoman Empire.They made mosques in every city they conquered but they didn't burn any churches therefore there is still religious diversity in those lands.Serbians were killing Bosnians just because they were muslims and none of the European leaders gave a fuck now i just laugh when you european kids try to give lecture to us , "barbarian allahuakbar terrorists" about being civilized , humanrights and living freely.
By the way , no one gives a fuck about joining EU its crambling down anyway ... We fought each other for centuries no one thinks that we could be allies in any day . Staying neutral is something but being allies ? Bitch please...
TL;DR : Deal with it Turks are the best.
edit:Even i can edit that wiki page btw don't believe in everything you read in wikipedia :wink:
Yes, of course, there were no pogroms or ethnic cleansings or mass deportations in the territory that is today Turkey in the 19th and 20th centuries. It was all just a multicultural dream of tolerance. After all, there are still christians in former Ottoman territories today, yes? Just like the benevolent European imperialist powers didn't try to convert the local populace of the middle east.Yeah because Europeans didn't destroy Mayan , Incan and Native American civilizations they got destroyed by Lightnings from Zeus's ass.
Obviously European colonialism was totally fucking tolerant, because hey, there's still muslims there today. I'm glad you managed to realize how awesome and ok it was for Europeans to bring modern infrastructure and technology to your decaying lands. You're welcome. /sarcasm
And Turks seem to fucking love the EU, given the ridiculous number of them leaving their country to emigrate there. Of course a lot like to pretend they are doing so as some kind of colonists, mostly the young second generation ones, because it's more mollifying to their pride than saying their parents fled their shitty country in order to seek better lives.
You only think this way because of very recent developments like television, telephone, radio, the airplane, and most importantly the internet. Before that, your world was basically restricted to your family, your neighborhood, your city, your country, in that order. That's not even going into man's collective instinct that has been reinforced for thousands of years in pack based hierarchies. Why? Because it worked. If they existed and propagated, it is because they were more effective than their counterparts, in a purely darwinian sense.
The crazy technological progression as far as as distribution of information goes in the last 100 years alone is fucking mindblowing. We're still trying to deal with it with all the lizard brain instinctive baggage that makes humans...humans. Physically, instinctually, emotionally we're no different from any other homo sapiens that has existed for hundreds of thousands of years. Instead of looking down on them as backwards retarded apes that just didn't know better, we should be trying to understand the mechanisms that drove them to addopt those forms of socialization. They're basically us, under different circumstances, as far back as recorded history goes, and much further.
I don't give a fuck , im sick of retarded snob european my old friends who blame every fucking nation while thinking their own nation is clean as god's ass...If you read more carefully, he isn't exactly denying that europeans fucked shit up.
Oberyn ofc arabs immigrated to france just to have better paying jobs.
France didn't fuck up northern african states , no you didn't colonize and assimilate them these are all rumours of few drunk my old friends...
And yeah Indians died cuz of sickness...Whole fucking continent get the same sickness at the same time while murricans survive...strange...
I don't give a fuck , im sick of retarded snob european my old friends who blame every fucking nation while thinking their own nation is clean as god's ass...
I think it is entirely immature to claim that your nation was always the Utopia humanity was always looking for, the rest of the world just didn't realizeThat immaturity is the reason of war in human history for 6000 years.Nor you or i can change it , it's your nature.USA still attacks Iraq to "Bring democracy and civilization" they brang Burger King and Starbucks to Iraq hurray...21st century but same shit for thousands of years...
I would like to know: what do you Turk fanboys think about what happened to the Armenians?I deny that was a genocide , a country who fights with British Empire, French , Greeks and Italians at the same time doesn't have time to genocide a population.Armenians were causing rebellions , trying to provoke people against Turks and let them accept living under French mandate because French promised them a free Armenia.Lots of the rebellions they made were massacres and Turkey didn't have enough force to defend against inner problems while they fight the whole damn europe therefore Turks decided to exile them to east.Many Armenians are killed during the migration.
I deny that was a genocide , a country who fights with British Empire, French , Greeks and Italians at the same time doesn't have time to genocide a population.
[...]
I think it was planned i mean they probably meant to let Armenians die because they didn't have force to suppress their rebellions so they just let nature do the killings , it is a sad part in history but it is far more different than a Genocide .
The Armenian Genocide (Armenian: Հայոց Ցեղասպանություն, Armenian pronunciation: [hɑjotsʰ tsʰɛʁɑspɑnutʰjun]), also known as the Armenian Holocaust, the Armenian Massacres and, by Armenians, as Meds Yeghern (Մեծ Եղեռն, Armenian pronunciation: [mɛts jɛˈʁɛrn], the Great Calamity or Great Crime) was the systematic killing of the Armenian population of the Ottoman Empire during and just after World War I.
It is widely acknowledged to have been one of the first modern genocides, as scholars point to the organized manner in which the killings were carried out to eliminate the Armenians, and it is the second most-studied case of genocide after the Holocaust. The word genocide was coined in order to describe these events.
I deny that was a genocide
The word genocide was coined in order to describe these events.
and by the way, I'm american, I'm of euro background, and i'm the first one that will tell you, that yes, The native americans in North and south america, were victims of genocide. Any retard saying differently, isnt comfortable with the idea of bieng an occupier, or comfortable enough to live with their forefathers actual history, without romanticising it into acceptability.
Well I wish Constantinople never fell. Not only did the turks hijack one of the most amazing buildings of ancient history (Hagia Sophia) but the changed the name of one of the oldest, most magnificent, and important cities in human history! It's bad luck to change a city's name, let alone twice! We should still call it Byzantium.
No offense. :)
This is way off topic, but the native americans were not subject to genocide, on the whole. The vast vast vast vast majority of them died by disease, by the fault of no one. Some of the disease was spread purposefully (an early biological warfare tactic), but this was WELL after most of them were already dead. Many were mistreated, lied to, fucked over, and even killed. To say they were victims of genocide is inaccurate though.
Regarding the statements after that-- Yes, this is actual history. No, the aspects of this history that can be termed mistreatment should not be romanticized or accepted. No, current Americans are not occupiers, but SOME of them are the descendants of occupiers and conquerors. For example, my relatives came over in the early 1900's, so saying "occupier" after this long of a time period is inaccurate. :)
Sorry, bt thats wrong. your suffering from the same romanticism as the Turkish nationalist.
EVERY State in the United States, was subject to white settlers and National armies murdering natives, and stealing their land, the fact that maybe even most of them died by disease brought by the occupiers, does not change that, or lessen it.
If your Ancestors came later, then yes your ancestors where not the murderers. But, just like the Germans who moved into Poland after the chocolate chip cookie military rolled over it, they are occupiers just the same.
So are the Saxons in britain and the Northmen who moved to the Danelaw regions in the UK. so are the northern irish.
It is what it is. Admit it, and move on. Theres not much you can do as an individual, this is beyond the responsibility of the individual descendent, to be able to rewrite history, but you can respect it, and those that it affected then, and still affects NOW.
Like I said earlier, one must admit reality, and vow not to repeat the wrongs of our fathers, or we are no better...
but dont try to candy coat the past, that just means your more likely to candy coat the genocides of the future, or present...
If what i said above bothers you, and hurts your heart, your doing it right.
Yeah, putting people in state sized worthless concentration camps, while your culture builds plantations, enslaves other races, and lives in luxery is 'protecting them' :?
I'm not confusing anything.
You can call it whatever you want.
Lets say its not genocide. Ok. Can we agree that the word is not 1/1000000000 as important, as the event(s) we are talking about?
So the murder rape and destruction of an entire race, (Estimated at about 4.5 million people and the theft of two continents), have it your way.
The word genocide is not really important in that context at all. Its rediculous to argue over, or try desperately to call it something else, in order to lessen its impact and reality, and thus ones responsibility.
Whats important is what happened.
So its not genocide by websters dictionary definition. congrats.
Atleast Genocide has the excuse of state mandate, and thus peer relivance. Individuals making a personal decision to kill others for profit and land, using pedantic cultural and religious beliefs as an excuse, just makes it even worse.
Well I wish Constantinople never fell. Not only did the turks hijack one of the most amazing buildings of ancient history (Hagia Sophia) but the changed the name of one of the oldest, most magnificent, and important cities in human history! It's bad luck to change a city's name, let alone twice! We should still call it Byzantium.Hijacking? Do not forget everyone does that. I have visited a mosque in the Eastern part of the Turkey. It was a pagan temple at first, then christians built a church in top of it, then muslims turned it into a mosque.
No offense. :)
Following quotes from here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide)Turks are offering forming a joined team of histroical researchers to find out what really happened in 1915 but Armenian government declines which means they hide something .They claim over 1 million armenians were killed while documants say there were only 400.000 armenians who forced to be exiled....Summary:
:wink:
But I guess in Turkey you get some other information than in the rest of the world.
And yes, Wikipedia still has got the reputation of beinga doubtful source, but I bet there are many real books and academic treatises about the topic. And no, I don't think that the rest of the world wants to defame Turkey for some obscure reason. You did what you did. And it happened during the reign of the Ottoman empire.
and by the way, I'm american, I'm of euro background, and i'm the first one that will tell you, that yes, The native americans in North and south america, were victims of genocide. Anyone saying differently, isnt comfortable with the idea of bieng an occupier, or comfortable enough to live with their forefathers actual history, without romanticising it into acceptability.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK6lH9z7hG4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK6lH9z7hG4)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqUBkCAmldM
In the Sotuh, I agree, North? Eh... not so much, in my opinion, there were wars and deportations, but outright genocide? Not really, especially since the Europeans needed the Indians at first, be it for trading for the Metropolis or only for the colonist to survive.
Turks are offering forming a joined team of histroical researchers to find out what really happened in 1915 but Armenian government declines which means they hide something .They claim over 1 million armenians were killed while documants say there were only 400.000 armenians who forced to be exiled...
So no , nor you or rest of the world can know turkish history better than a turk.
Without knowing more facts I can't judge this. Perhaps they refuse it because they fear the Turkish researchers would be biased and for example not publish all encounters they make or reinterpret hints they find and so on. You know what I mean.You are the most retarted person i've ever seen on internet.
Just to give you an extreme example: in North Korea the people are told that the food rations which are regularly delivered by other nations are delivered out of respect and fear of North Korea. And people believe it.
It all depends on what information is accessible to you. Of course, North Korea which doesn't even have an internet access is an extreme example, but if most foreign information tells me something bad about my land/government, but most domestic information keep telling me it's not that bad as everyone claims, I will believe the foreign ones, because they have less motivation to... bend facts... of course the foreign information could be "enemy propaganda", but just ask yourself about the motivations, and things will be clear.
You are the most retarted person i've ever seen on internet.
Giving examples from north korea when talking about turkey and genocide totally logical
It's not illogical. The two countries are COMPLETELY different, but the concept he is trying to convey, that governments give "spun" information to their citizens, is totally universal across all nations. Not only nations, but corporations and even families do this. It's a human condition.Hey harun do we have a leader that we cry after his loss for weeks but then shout his heir's name for weeks ? I'm totally a nerd that not openning tv just looking to games please help me harun i missed something btw yesterday i mistakely broke communist propaganda symbol in my room , i hope goverment wont genocide my family =(
I am ashamed of him.This guy got a signature as quote from ABAY
I am concerned of his mental health nowstill not giving a single fuck
Congrats one and all, you've just provided a perfect example why ALL religion, and national pride, is complete horseshit, and the primary cause of the murder and misery of millions, for generation after generation, millenia after millenia.
lol. At least your only talking, and not stabbing/shooting/bombing each other.... :rolleyes:
Should all have a beer together and tell your governments and religious leaders to go jump off a cliff.
Sorry to interrupt, just trying to interject some sanity.
One of these days maybe we will evolve, neither East or west should be bragging about shit, both sides should be ashamed of being nothing more than baboons with a long history of insularism, selfishness, and murderous intent.
Ah, but it is the curse of man, as we sit here, all playing a game pretending to murder each other with sharpened sticks. As if glorious battles where anything more than organized murder. As if cultures are anything more than a way to identify someone as an outsider, dehumanize them, and then treat them like shit.
Human pride, religion, nationalism, its all just a sign that we've not got much further than 2 troops of baboons beating each other over the head with a thigh bone.
See ya on the killing fields, i'm guilty too.
I think i'm falling in love!
How come the invaders are the good guys?
Turks conquered the byzantine empire because they had to? :|The key is the real peace with Islam :wink: You know, in those times, for example in England, if you were no catholic, they would burn you. But in Islam, that is not allowed. Everyone lives what they want, so Ottomans are mainly muslims but they keep orthodoxs, catholics, jews, indian religioners in their people. Especially Armenians were the best people that is no-muslim to the Ottomans. But please dont take the issu to Armenian-Turkish things. Big Powers show Turkish people as enemy of Greeks, Armenians, Egyptians, Syrians, Georgians, Kurds, Bosnians, Serbians, Albanians, Hungarians but no, we are not hostile to those people. We lived with them in peace for 600 years. Big Powers do that cos there is still a possibility to build Ottomans in future. Those nations lived their best national welth when they were in Ottomans. If you can research on Ottoman bureaucracy records, you can see how much Ottomans spent for those nations. These records still exist. So, peace be with you aka Selamun Aleykum
Sometimes honesty is the best remedy. The Turks then where no less power hungry than the romans for example, and the byzantine people payed the tab. Somehow reshaping such horrible events into something good and justified doesn't seem right.
Turks conquered the byzantine empire because they had to? :|
Sometimes honesty is the best remedy. The Turks then where no less power hungry than the romans for example, and the byzantine people payed the tab. Somehow reshaping such horrible events into something good and justified doesn't seem right.
The key is the real peace with Islam :wink: You know, in those times, for example in England, if you were no catholic, they would burn you. But in Islam, that is not allowed. Everyone lives what they want, so Ottomans are mainly muslims but they keep orthodoxs, catholics, jews, indian religioners in their people. Especially Armenians were the best people that is no-muslim to the Ottomans. But please dont take the issu to Armenian-Turkish things. Big Powers show Turkish people as enemy of Greeks, Armenians, Egyptians, Syrians, Georgians, Kurds, Bosnians, Serbians, Albanians, Hungarians but no, we are not hostile to those people. We lived with them in peace for 600 years. Big Powers do that cos there is still a possibility to build Ottomans in future. Those nations lived their best national welth when they were in Ottomans. If you can research on Ottoman bureaucracy records, you can see how much Ottomans spent for those nations. These records still exist. So, peace be with you aka Selamun Aleykum
Empires that consist of many cultures and religions need tolerance to them as well or there will never be peace. Something people still haven't learned yet. Examples such as former yugoslavia, lebanon ect. Of course the root of the problem is much deeper but it all comes down to the past and what happened a long time ago...Biggest scourge is still religion. Let's be reasonable now, there was no peace for 600 years. Nobody wants to be ruled by an outsider culture or power. I'm sure greek, serbs, armenians, bosnians and probably many others didn't want to be in the ottoman empire. But as the old saying goes, Might makes right.
Ottomans were clever barbarians that converted the religion of Christian children to Islam to make them fight against their own people.They murdered too many villagers, looted women after battles. Much more worse than Crusades i think.
In Ottoman law if you conquer someplace with a fight or battle, you can loot everything you want as a Janissary or Spahi . Cuz you deserve it. All children under age 5 would be converted to a faithful Islam warrior to fight against infidels.In all Turkish history books it looks like this; "If the children doesnt want to leave his/her family, they can stay and if the child has no brothers or sister he/she wont be taken." Fuck it. Not true at all.Değiştir şu avatarı hareket ediyorsun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
Maybe its right they earnt shit loads of money and glory.But they killed their OWN families who knows... When someone asks my history, i wouldnt answer Faithful Great Ottoman Empire, i would answer Huns from steppes, they were more honorable and glorious people.The only point i like about Ottomans, we live in where the lands they conquered.I am a Humanist and i think that way :)
In Ottoman law if you conquer someplace with a fight or battle, you can loot everything you want as a Janissary or Spahi . Cuz you deserve it. All children under age 5 would be converted to a faithful Islam warrior to fight against infidels.In all Turkish history books it looks like this; "If the children doesnt want to leave his/her family, they can stay and if the child has no brothers or sister he/she wont be taken." Fuck it. Not true at all.Well, hope you face those janissaries in afterlife and they say if you are true or not. Esselamun Aleykum
Maybe its right they earnt shit loads of money and glory.But they killed their OWN families who knows... When someone asks my history, i wouldnt answer Faithful Great Ottoman Empire, i would answer Huns from steppes, they were more honorable and glorious people.The only point i like about Ottomans, we live in where the lands they conquered.I am a Humanist and i think that way :)