Yay, now I can safely sell my +3 KAS for 100000 gold and still get it back with the money cause obviously enough I wanted to sell it for one million.
Please define precisely what is an "obvious input error" or "getting ripped" and what is not. Otherwise it just sounds like the "We can revert trades we don't like now trolololz" rule.
Yay, now I can safely sell my +3 KAS for 100000 gold and still get it back with the money cause obviously enough I wanted to sell it for one million.
Please define precisely what is an "obvious input error" or "getting ripped" and what is not. Otherwise it just sounds like the "We can revert trades we don't like now trolololz" rule.
Do not try to abuse this to revert trades because you could have gotten a better one some minutes later or to get temporary money to do other deals, it will be completely obvious to us.
Also which of the examples do you want specified?
If you do such a trade and do not realize that minutes after seeing the trade happened, you will not get anything back, nor will you if you use that money since the trade will be fully reverted which means the other side of the trade will get his/her gold back as well.
EDIT: Removed some "obviously"s.
It amazes me that common sense seems to be very very rare in this community or some people just try ignore it to make a point.
Also which of the examples do you want specified?
If you do such a trade and do not realize that minutes after seeing the trade happened, you will not get anything back, nor will you if you use that money since the trade will be fully reverted which means the other side of the trade will get his/her gold back as well.
EDIT: Removed some "obviously"s.
It amazes me that common sense seems to be very very rare in this community or some people just try ignore it to make a point.
sold my +3 heavy lance instead of my +3 KAS, but for the KAS price. Determining wether I actually got scammed is hard because it depends on the relative value of the HL and KAS.
What about old trades? Or mistakes rather.
I love how we all are (rightfully) screaming about the Patriot act or SOPA, yet somehow doing the exact same thing ourselves isn't a problem.
I'm fine with this rule personally, I just don't like the fact that nobody points out the problems that can and will emerge when we will have borderline cases. Let's say I fucked up the item selection, and sold my +3 heavy lance instead of my +3 KAS, but for the KAS price. Determining wether I actually got scammed is hard because it depends on the relative value of the HL and KAS.
A "confirmation" option to be added to the seller side would solve this problem and also facilitate trading by eliminating the need of intermediate items and allowing people to choose specific buyers...
Really? Patriot act?
Well, you are totally right about the part where this never was a democracy and I will under no circumstances define this rule in a way where people start exploiting possible loopholes.
If there is a dispute between both trade partners and they can not agree on something we will judge the cases individually.
And yes we will decide on what we think is the right thing.
This rule is there to prevent people from ruining other people's game experience.
So instead of common sense just ask yourself: "Would I want to be on the other side of that trade?"
If the answer is no - don't do it.
Smart trading is fine and if you can make money with honest trades on the market there is no problem at all.
This is a case where that rules does not apply since it's in no way obvious for your trade partner that you made a mistake.
This I totally agree on.
Not sure it's gonna be added though.
my life is over
Finaly and thanks.I sent Somnium a link of this thread. I know what he does. The new rule was published a few days too late for me...
Somnium read this topic lol
I don't like the rule. A market is made up by winners and losers, and preying on other peoples mistakes is a valid strategy, regardless of morals. Coming from EVE I have a pretty thick nose when it comes to scams and trickery.
But, this is just a game after all, and maybe it's better to have rules like this to prevent people from getting 'griefed'. I don't have to like it, but I can still agree to it.
Chairman Maow, glorious leader and noobsaver.
I don't like the rule. A market is made up by winners and losers, and preying on other peoples mistakes is a valid strategy, regardless of morals. Coming from EVE I have a pretty thick nose when it comes to scams and trickery.
How about putting in a warning saying "THE TRADE YOU'RE ADDING IS PROBABLY A REALLY BAD IDEA" if you request too little gold/pay gold & item for nothing/etc. so that people will actually know beforehand?
That'll take the guesswork and manpower out of trying to deal with the cases of somebody crying because they wanted just a slightly better deal than they settled for initially.
If cases that trigger this rule are obvious enough, it shouldn't be too hard.
What about old trades? Or mistakes rather.
Also which of the examples do you want specified?Personnally i was not trying to make a point at all. I find this new rule very usefull.
If you do such a trade and do not realize that minutes after seeing the trade happened, you will not get anything back, nor will you if you use that money since the trade will be fully reverted which means the other side of the trade will get his/her gold back as well.
EDIT: Removed some "obviously"s.
It amazes me that common sense seems to be very very rare in this community or some people just try ignore it to make a point.
Personnally i was not trying to make a point at all. I find this new rule very usefull.(click to show/hide)
Can we also have a Wall of Shame for people being banned for this?
Haha, I was mainly answering Kaffein with what you quoted, your reply looked perfectly fine :mrgreen:
Not sure about extra specific rules yet but I'll check that out tomorrow.(click to show/hide)
Well, it kinda happened with the scammers since those mostly happened publicly.
Some people already dropped names here.
Can't say if we will make them public ourselves but you know how it goes when people get ripped off and are angry :mrgreen:
There is no way we can return items that were lost this way before since there was no rule against it.
Bullshit n 100% gay you should rape em an hang em instead of showing mercy not only to pay respect to those who left or rage quit after they got fucked an for the people who have lost countless hours due to some typo...
And i think Kafein has been a little too harsh , but dont take it for yourself, he is more thinking about a global point of view about economy.
Maybe it should be like writing a check.
You have to input the things twice (price, item, heirloom)... A little more hassle but I think it might help a lot.
Also why hasnt private trading been implemented yet? WHY!?
Haha, no worries, Kaf and I are bros :mrgreen:
Usually i'm with the devs decision, as they usually have a taste for common sense. But i think this is really a bad idea, as you're directly getting into players interaction and their rights (even the right to make mistakes).Yes we can also add the formula of the (averageof k lowest offer)*0.60 to warn people when they try to sell.
A game without mistakes is not a game. If you make a mistake and you're able to get back before you made the mistake. Where is the game? Even more for a multiplayer game ...
I'm ok with making messages of confirmation about "bad offers" in the market before making them (p.e. 2 times question: "are you sure? this seems to be a bad idea." You go ok, then second question: "Are you sure? This seems like a wrong offer?" then you go ok, the offer is up in the market), but direct "go back" manipulations are not and should not be fair.
Too much direct manipulation from devs in this case.
PD: i've never exploited someone's mistake in the market.
if you honestly can't realize the price or offer you want for an item before you press the confirmation button then in all fairness tough luck. This isn't noob friendly jacko....it's stupid friendly.
I made my mistake at 3 AM lol. Item went after one minute or so. Of course it was NA player, who else could be....Well it could be an EU.
We wanted a way to exchange our loomed items. Marketplace happened. People got ripped off. I'm pretty sure we didn't want that to happen.
We just wanted to exchange looms.
Usually i'm with the devs decision, as they usually have a taste for common sense. But i think this is really a bad idea, as you're directly getting into players interaction and their rights (even the right to make mistakes).This post wasn't first in line at the making sense department.
A game without mistakes is not a game. If you make a mistake and you're able to get back before you made the mistake. Where is the game? Even more for a multiplayer game ...
We wanted a way to exchange our loomed items. Marketplace happened. People got ripped off. I'm pretty sure we didn't want that to happen.
We just wanted to exchange looms.
I think the main target of this rule is people that run scripts that automatically buy the fail offers, not the real marketplace sharks that actually know something about the value of things.
People used scripts? Now thats just lame. It was not hard to hit refresh in-between rounds.yeah. Somnium for one used one. Bought out my +3 mail mittens the day before this rule was implemented. The person who loomed it was on vent with me and counted down when he was placing it so i could start spamming refresh to buy it quick. I never even saw the item go up while spamming refresh on a +3 mail mitten search.
My morningstar +3 was bought by Somnium/DarkOmen immediately.
I saw my mistake directly after setting up the offer. So I tried to delete it a few seconds after creating... too late.
Assumed he used a script, was the action of Somnium/DarkOmen illegal independently of the new rule?
Corwin we are speaking about people writting 150k instead of 1500k
Its not about complaining because someone sold something 290 k whereas he could sell it 360k. This is marketting that no rule should apply to that. You are a good trader or your are not.
What Meow want to rule is people exploiting the fact that other people can make stupid error like forgetting a zero, or selling for 10 k gold a +1 heirloom because they forget to put which heirloom they wanted in exchange
The new rule is nothing I care much about, BUT:
Ther sould be a protected mode to make deals between two specific players.
About a week ago, I set a special offer (cheap), with an unpopular loomed weapon - and it was bought in the instant I set the offer. I am not shure if someone could react this fast. So the script story seems not out of hands for me.
So there is no safe way to make deals between friends - becouse of fast buyers (maybe script, maybe not).
What about an option that makes the deal protected - so the seller has the possiblity to confirm the transfer or decline it and wait for another buyer. This way one could safely trade with friends.
Just a proposal to throw in.
Greats
Incorrect. Just conduct two trades using stones to guard against marketplace snipers.
My morningstar +3 was bought by Somnium/DarkOmen immediately.Same here with TurmoilTom and my Lordly Light Kuyak
I saw my mistake directly after setting up the offer. So I tried to delete it a few seconds after creating... too late.
Assumed he used a script, was the action of Somnium/DarkOmen illegal independently of the new rule?
This is how people get really scammed, for example while "buying" an heirloom point for that +2 armor.
We had to put this rule in place since lately some players decided that their own gain is more important than the community and we will make sure they change their mind about that.
Bjúúúúúúrd not so gud at reading comprehension? Check the OP again.
From now on...
...such as; denominator separators like , for NA ....
yep, viewing existing offers shows you a denominator *golfclap*, it DOES NOT however show up when you are typing in YOUR offer amount...exactly when it would be the MOST useful in preventing careless mistakes and make it so admins dont HAVE to do any of this nanny work in the first place. Its pretty advance programming, like those forms that auto insert -'s when you type in a phone number
the forum converts d_o_n_k_e_y (without _) to equus africanus asinuss... LOL
« Last Edit: Today at 10:26:03 by Von_Hazaa »How hard is it to read your text before you post? That's not meant as an insult, but as example that people make mistakes and there should be the possibility to fix it.
How hard is it to read your text before you post? That's not meant as an insult, but as example that people make mistakes and there should be the possibility to fix it.
Some buyer of misoffered items had more than luck. They systematically crawled technically the market.
If you take a look around you will see that the law in real life takes account of such things. In cRPG it's often Wild West.
How hard is it for a person to realize what means p.s.? POST SCRIPTUM, MEANS IT WAS ADDED AFTER ORIGINAL POST.Where does p.s. comes from? In a hand- or typewritten text it was not possible to edit the text afterwards. So they used p.s. to say something additionally which the editor forgot.
From now on, exploiting other players' mistakes on the market will be against the rules.
This means that if you find offers that are obvious mistakes you must return those item/gold to the original owner without any personal gain.
You can buy the item and instantly contact the owner so no one else can grab it or you just PM him and make him aware of his mistake.
If you instead decide to keep the stuff or try to get some extra money out of it, we will forcefully return those items/gold and make sure there is a proper punishment.
We had to put this rule in place since lately some players decided that their own gain is more important than the community and we will make sure they change their mind about that.
Players quit over such mistakes and this will not happen anymore.
There is no way we can return items that were lost this way before since there was no rule against it.
Now there is.
So if you get into trouble on the market because you entered some wrong numbers, be assured from now on you will get your stuff back.
If your "trade partner" is not cooperative according to this rule - contact us.
This only goes for obvious mistakes, some examples:
- Selling heirlooms for a fraction of their actual value. (e.g. selling a +3 item for 1/1500/15000/150000 gold and similar deals)
- Offering a multitude of their value in gold. (e.g. offering 3 million gold for a +1 Item)
- Offering a +3 item for a +0 +1 item without requesting extra gold.
As always - common sense applies, cases that fall under this rule will be obvious to everyone.
Do not try to abuse this to revert trades because you could have gotten a better one some minutes later or to get temporary money to do other deals, it will be completely obvious to us.
all what i can say about it kuoin, you nOOB )) hehehe:cry:
:cry:
will you come back in game btw?
the forum converts d_o_n_k_e_y (without _) to equus africanus asinuss... LOL
yep, viewing existing offers shows you a denominator *golfclap*, it DOES NOT however show up when you are typing in YOUR offer amount...exactly when it would be the MOST useful in preventing careless mistakes and make it so admins dont HAVE to do any of this nanny work in the first place. Its pretty advance programming, like those forms that auto insert -'s when you type in a phone number
HAD to repost when I read this :D
If you cannot count how many times you pressed 0, then....well, sry, it goes like this:
Lets use base 1
Place a 0 after 1, you get 10, thats TEN
Add another 0 and thats 100, ONE HUNDRED
another and you have 1000, ONE THOUSAND
are you getting this?
I'm not the one with the problem bro, so no need to patronize me. I can count my zeros on my numpad just fine. Instead of wasting admins time every day/week, taking 1 day to put in this kind of feature would save them alot of work in the long run. This is middle school difficulty stuff and its common sense. Work smart, not hard
cool, you got the code written that recognises the inflation rate of market, the average price currently for that item, the previous spending of the buyer and the previous pricing of the seller? You HAVE? GREAT, hand it over. Telling other people what is smart is great. Im not gonna tell you that your smart. Your not. Your just a smartass.
might wanna look up the definition of 'average' or 'arithmetic mean' before you make stupid comments
And now some people want to hide... not to take responsibility for their actions.Again a namechange... his name is BlackGrail now...
Somnium did a namechange and his name is DarkOmen now.
So he got mine morningstar +3 with an offer by mistake and now he also wants a clean history. Bah!
Leave that guy alone kherr....better watch on your self and your toys!Pls don't tell me how to deal with a person from whom I got messages full of lies. It's not a random person who had "luck".
This is to protect selling person, what about the buying one? Im checking market, and see a lot of crap there for X of thousands, while in the market they cost few golds for example.
Can I return an item wich was sold mistakenly before applying this rule?
I sometimes feel as if a lot of tax money has been wasted in schools teaching people how to read
I do not know about the cicumstances, but technically you owe them either nothing or 100k.
I want to ask your opinion on this case:
King_Pave bought +3 Longbow for 100k from Merciless_PanPan, Merciless start whining and ask it back, Pave sold it for 200k(100k profit only) back to PanPan.
Fair or unfair? I think many would have ignored Merciless whine and sold it for price suiting current market. (1.2m back then)
This happened before new rules, now Merciless whining we own them 200k, even Pave only profited 100k, retarded or not? :D
Imo very fair by Pave and very RETARDED from Merciless side, showing how stupid they are. If your clan is full of 12year old people, who can't count if number has 5 or 6 zeros, don't retaliate it on us.
Slap PanPan in the face. Reacting like that means he should not have his item back at all.
First off, paying back the whole 200k is unacceptable, as no more than a 100k profit was made.
Second, selling the item back to the original owner for a tiny profit compared to what could be done is a very reasonable and generous choice. Requesting the money back proves that in this case, this generosity was not deserved.
Yes i told them the same, also that they owe us 1m, since they have only paid 200k this far. :mrgreen:
It´s usualy nice to return an item like that , but you sold a +3 for 200k??? That makes you the retard.
But your whining in Dezi den of dueling has proven enough of your little problem ...called down syndrome in your life already.
Slap PanPan in the face. Reacting like that means he should not have his item back at all.Kafein. Panpan forgot to add a 0 to the price and sold it for 100k instead of 1 mill. The guy then sells it back, but demand an additional 100k for "compensation". Let's quote the second line of Meows post, shall we?
First off, paying back the whole 200k is unacceptable, as no more than a 100k profit was made.
Second, selling the item back to the original owner for a tiny profit compared to what could be done is a very reasonable and generous choice. Requesting the money back proves that in this case, this generosity was not deserved.
This means that if you find offers that are obvious mistakes you must return those item/gold to the original owner without any personal gain.
You can buy the item and instantly contact the owner so no one else can grab it or you just PM him and make him aware of his mistake.
No shit, Sherlock! Figured it out yourself?(click to show/hide)
Zapper you come straight from kindergarden or it is just hard for you to read?
New rules do not apply on old cases.
Kafein. Panpan forgot to add a 0 to the price and sold it for 100k instead of 1 mill. The guy then sells it back, but demand an additional 100k for "compensation".
without gaining any money from it.
Spuitelf , as i would call you in dutch. Also I'm an excelent marketplace trader making profit all the time without scamming so please every guy has made an typo in his life so .
Ok so this happened at a time there were no rules about this. If PanPan was not happy about being able to buy his item back for only 100k more, then he could have simply refused and the "scammer" would have won ~1100k gold out of this, instead of 100k. I'm quite sure the guy did not demanded to lose ~1M profit.Actually you are wrong about this. Remember all those threads with people doing the exact same mistake, other guy refused to give it back, and admins permabanned them? That is what would have happened if he hadn't given the item back. Also, it's not a ~1M profit when you get it because of a typo mistake by the other guy. It's scamming. Also, we just threw the "pay us the money and we will leave you alone" because they started begging us to stop attacking them in strat, and we wanted some fun with them. Nothing wrong with that, no? Besides, he is the one bringing this all up again, remember? We're just explaining shit to ya :P
without loosing any either. This is a past event and nothing will be done about it one way or the other, but asking for more than what PanPan lost as a compensation is like wandering in town with a "beat me up" sign over your head.
Anyway, I'm done with you two, happy arguing.
Actually you are wrong about this. Remember all those threads with people doing the exact same mistake, other guy refused to give it back, and admins permabanned them? That is what would have happened if he hadn't given the item back. Also, it's not a ~1M profit when you get it because of a typo mistake by the other guy. It's scamming. Also, we just threw the "pay us the money and we will leave you alone" because they started begging us to stop attacking them in strat, and we wanted some fun with them. Nothing wrong with that, no? Besides, he is the one bringing this all up again, remember? We're just explaining shit to ya :P
It's scamming.
poophammer losing his admin status.FREE POOPHAMMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Solved :mrgreen:
OGG_MarijuanaI think I know why this guy isn't replying...
If you have made an honest mistake (and a very stupid trade) is there any way to get to know who you traded with (if you forget his name) to plead with him to let the trade go back? I realize the chances are slim but maybe he's a decent guy if I just can get hold of his name.On your character page, in the top left corner next to you gold, is a message button. Click that. Then change "Unread" to "sent" and click search. All your sent messages should be stored there.
I accepted this trade and obvisouly I thought I would be the one to gain the 150k. Not pay the guy so he could get exactly what he wanted. :-(
Trade 16/01/2013 03:52:05 Lordly Lamellar Vest vs. Lordly Sarranid Guard Armor and 150,000 gold
Yes, I know I am an idiot for not being able to read the Auction House right but it is one of my first trades and I took for granted the person asking for an armour would pay a fee to be able to change to what he wanted to. Not the other way around.
Thanks...
If you have made an honest mistake (and a very stupid trade) is there any way to get to know who you traded with (if you forget his name) to plead with him to let the trade go back? I realize the chances are slim but maybe he's a decent guy if I just can get hold of his name.
I accepted this trade and obvisouly I thought I would be the one to gain the 150k. Not pay the guy so he could get exactly what he wanted. :-(
Trade 16/01/2013 03:52:05 Lordly Lamellar Vest vs. Lordly Sarranid Guard Armor and 150,000 gold
Yes, I know I am an idiot for not being able to read the Auction House right but it is one of my first trades and I took for granted the person asking for an armour would pay a fee to be able to change to what he wanted to. Not the other way around.
Thanks...
A 24 hour automated regret period would be excellent for clumsy players like me.
What if this happend b4 this rule do we just lose the item? :/before meow put this rule up officially it was sort of a gray area....most of the time the person who benefited(from a cheap loom or from someone paying too much) would give it back but charge a small fee, something like 25k-50k gold. But other times the person would be a dick and basically it was "too bad".
What if this happend b4 this rule do we just lose the item? :/yes, for more information or help go to the IRC and find Meow
harald or paul pls help, ive made a mistake on the marketplace.. ive posted it all in a pm..that was me harald
that was me haraldoh this never got fixed.......
harald If you cant revert that I will try to fix that with him
I have all the stuffs on me right now and the biggest problem is tax.
From now on, exploiting other players' mistakes on the market will be against the rules.
This means that if you find offers that are obvious mistakes you must return those item/gold to the original owner without any personal gain.
You can buy the item and instantly contact the owner so no one else can grab it or you just PM him and make him aware of his mistake.
If you instead decide to keep the stuff or try to get some extra money out of it, we will forcefully return those items/gold and make sure there is a proper punishment.
We had to put this rule in place since lately some players decided that their own gain is more important than the community and we will make sure they change their mind about that.
Players quit over such mistakes and this will not happen anymore.
There is no way we can return items that were lost this way before since there was no rule against it.
Now there is.
So if you get into trouble on the market because you entered some wrong numbers, be assured from now on you will get your stuff back.
If your "trade partner" is not cooperative according to this rule - contact us.
This only goes for obvious mistakes, some examples:
- Selling heirlooms for a fraction of their actual value. (e.g. selling a +3 item for 1/1500/15000/150000 gold and similar deals)
- Offering a multitude of their value in gold. (e.g. offering 3 million gold for a +1 Item)
- Offering a +3 item for a +0 +1 +2 item without requesting extra gold.
As always - common sense applies, cases that fall under this rule will be obvious to everyone.
Do not try to abuse this to revert trades because you could have gotten a better one some minutes later or to get temporary money to do other deals, it will be completely obvious to us.
EDIT: Stickied since it's becoming a problem again lately.
Since Meow is taking a break try Paul or me instead.
Oh shit I have fallen to this, I have accepted a deal offering mw item for mw item + 1 heirloom points. Can someone instruct me how to get the item back?
I once mistakenly sold my +1 great axe for 40k.. don't suppose we can do something about this now? :pscreens? and when was it?
I recently purchased a shit ton of items at ridiculously low prices. How long must I wait to sell them or trade them? I don't want to have to hold onto this shit for a long time for some idiot's marketplace fault.
Sell it at once lol, if he is late to notice, he doest care so much.
I mean srsly if you put up a trade you need to double check it, just incase so these situasjon never happens