cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Realism Discussion => Topic started by: Bobthehero on September 28, 2011, 07:24:53 pm

Title: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Bobthehero on September 28, 2011, 07:24:53 pm
Why oh why do 1 handed weapon (and 2 handed sword for that matter) can even hurt people in plate, this aint realistic, make all 1 hander except the warhammer and steel pick do no damage on plate, while those 2 weapons would do minimal damage.

Also, 1 shotting people in clothes and naked no matter the weapon or the build is a must.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Ylca on September 28, 2011, 07:28:02 pm
I really think that they should also add in a "sanity" system. In real life if someone who was a peasant saw a man in full black armor he'd probably flee in absolute horror. Anyone who isn't in at least 15 pounds of armor should have a rapidly rising meter the closer they are to a plate wearer, and when this gauge is full it should cause them to randomly drop an item and flee in terror.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Bobthehero on September 28, 2011, 07:28:59 pm
What about the fact that you might have platers on your own side, that would boost your meter right?
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on September 28, 2011, 07:29:08 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP3kWUxoZIs
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Penitent on September 28, 2011, 07:32:49 pm
In real life 1h weapons are effective against plate.  You just have to aim for the joints or thrust.  So swords in addition to hammers and picks should be able to damage plate, though not as much.  That is exactly how it is in game now!

Most people don't like realism arguments (I'm not one of them), so in that case it is important for balance issues as well.  Plate would be too powerful if only blunt/pierce could damage them at all.

If I was a peasant, I wouldn't flee from a fully plated guy.  Just doge/parry the first attack and tackle him.  Then gouge his eyes and armor joints with your pointy stick or dagger. :)
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: MrShine on September 28, 2011, 07:35:37 pm
We need to open this up to archery as well.

Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3997HZuWjk
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Ylca on September 28, 2011, 07:35:43 pm
What about the fact that you might have platers on your own side, that would boost your meter right?

I dunno, i suppose it could act as a rally but it shouldn't negate the effect entirely. After all even if your commander is there bolstering your spirits, his armor isn't going to keep your guts off the grassy fields.

Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Thomek on September 28, 2011, 07:46:30 pm
People don't get that crpg have to be viewed as an ABSTRACTION of real combat.

Why i.ex isn't the dagger super-efficient against plate? It would be the ultimate weapon to sneak through the cracks with good control. An ignore-armour dagger would be great..

In RL people could fight on the ground and wrestle, totally omitted.

Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Ylca on September 28, 2011, 07:56:33 pm
It would be the ultimate weapon to sneak through the cracks with good control. An ignore-armour dagger would be great..

This is an amazing suggestion, perhaps you should make a thread about working out the specifics? I'd love to help crunch some numbers. I believe wrestling would also add depth to CRPG. This subforum is amazing for top tier new ideas!
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Bobthehero on September 28, 2011, 08:16:46 pm
People don't get that crpg have to be viewed as an ABSTRACTION of real combat.

Why i.ex isn't the dagger super-efficient against plate? It would be the ultimate weapon to sneak through the cracks with good control. An ignore-armour dagger would be great..

In RL people could fight on the ground and wrestle, totally omitted.

False, the short reach of the dagger would make it useless agaisnt about anything, like how it is in game, and you actually would need to aim your hits with the dagger, just like with any one handers to damage someone in plate.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: rustyspoon on September 28, 2011, 08:41:05 pm
False, the short reach of the dagger would make it useless agaisnt about anything, like how it is in game, and you actually would need to aim your hits with the dagger, just like with any one handers to damage someone in plate.

I think the point is to use the dagger AFTER you've wrestled your opponent to the ground. I support this.

Also after we add the wrestling mechanics we need a wrestle-only server where we wrestle greco-roman style. Naked and oily.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Ylca on September 28, 2011, 09:38:38 pm
I think the point is to use the dagger AFTER you've wrestled your opponent to the ground. I support this.

Also after we add the wrestling mechanics we need a wrestle-only server where we wrestle greco-roman style. Naked and oily.

I think the nudity might not be great for the playerbase as some of the players are children, however oil casks and oil effect could probably easily be coded in.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: zagibu on September 28, 2011, 10:11:05 pm
It's okay for children to see how people get impaled and hacked down, but GOD FORBID THEY SEE NAKED PEOPLE! THE HORROR!
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Bobthehero on September 28, 2011, 10:13:11 pm
Lets not derail the thread please, as much as its a 100% non serious one considering how plate armor would be totally imbalanced if the dev added realistic plate.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Laufknoten on September 28, 2011, 10:22:52 pm
make all 1 hander except the warhammer and steel pick do no damage on plate, while those 2 weapons would do minimal damage.
Why minimal damage? Such a warhammer hit to the face/helmet was actually devastating, same with the pick. Also a well placed thrust with a sword would do a lot damage to plate, too.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Bobthehero on September 28, 2011, 10:30:16 pm
The head bit would work with blunt and pierce (Stab included) however, stabbing at plate using the 2 hand grip or with a 1 hand weapon would result in very little effect, solution? MOAR pierce damage for halfswording.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Laufknoten on September 28, 2011, 10:42:03 pm
The head bit would work with blunt and pierce (Stab included) however, stabbing at plate using the 2 hand grip or with a 1 hand weapon would result in very little effect, solution? MOAR pierce damage for halfswording.
Yeah, but halfswording is a whole other story. Watching two tin cans in crpg doing real halfswording would be awesome though. :D
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Bobthehero on September 28, 2011, 10:43:02 pm
Wish I could see that  :(
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Siiem on September 28, 2011, 10:49:43 pm
Why minimal damage? Such a warhammer hit to the face/helmet was actually devastating, same with the pick. Also a well placed thrust with a sword would do a lot damage to plate, too.

No, it would do minimal damage to the plate... but the guy inside would be in trouble :P
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Laufknoten on September 28, 2011, 11:13:55 pm
No, it would do minimal damage to the plate... but the guy inside would be in trouble :P
Well, both are pretty fucked. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhknaG9ifbs#t=0m58s
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Bobthehero on September 28, 2011, 11:15:46 pm
Lots of flaws with that test.

First there is o mail coif and padding under the plate.

Second on a battlefield filled with other soldiers you can't charge up like that guy did.

Third your target will be moving, not a lot, due to the other people and the limited mobility, but that would still reduce the effect of the hit.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Christo on September 28, 2011, 11:17:31 pm
And the opponent isn't a damned trainin' dummy.

He would try to dodge or parry that incoming hammer, everyone knows that charging like that would just kill you in the end.  :)
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Siiem on September 28, 2011, 11:20:39 pm
And the opponent isn't a damned trainin' dummy.

He would try to dodge or parry that incoming hammer, everyone knows that charging like that would just kill you in the end.  :)

Get one of these! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0McQ-cQmUZA&feature=player_detailpage#t=45s
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Christo on September 28, 2011, 11:22:55 pm
Get one of these! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0McQ-cQmUZA&feature=player_detailpage#t=45s

lol, epic win.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b60OZhrTB6o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b60OZhrTB6o)

If I ever need a shovel.. Minecrafters would love such a thing.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Laufknoten on September 28, 2011, 11:29:20 pm
lol, epic win.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b60OZhrTB6o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b60OZhrTB6o)

If I ever need a shovel.. Minecrafters would love such a thing.  :mrgreen:
Military Shovels are the best things ever invented... :wink: But seriously, you can do everything with them. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Bobthehero on September 28, 2011, 11:33:35 pm
Fapping with it? I have doubts.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Siiem on September 28, 2011, 11:34:37 pm
Fapping with it? I have doubts.

You would obviously need two.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Matey on September 28, 2011, 11:56:28 pm
non plate people should be able to run 10x faster than plate and do flips and shit and also swing 10x faster than guys in plate and also when wearing a plate it should reduce your mouse sensativity to the lowest setting oh and if you have a helmet on that would impede vision then you should be forced to fight in 1st person and have most of your screen taken up by metal that is blocking your vision. also it should take 10x times longer to stand up if knocked down, oh and if you go in water you drown right away. kthnx.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Christo on September 28, 2011, 11:59:22 pm
Erm.. plate wasn't that heavy, a well made suit of (battle) plate armour was very flexible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvCvOC2VwDc

Tourney and ceremonial armours are a different thing.

Btw Plate and armour in general should make noise, for real.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Bobthehero on September 29, 2011, 12:02:04 am
Matey most of what you said is greatly exagerated :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hlIUrd7d1Q
Here

Edit: damn you Christo
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Christo on September 29, 2011, 12:02:33 am
Hahaha.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Matey on September 29, 2011, 12:05:52 am
i still vote for reduced mouse sensativity and forced 1st person with restricted vision for plate users! just look at christos profile picture! his screen would be like top 25% of screen = metal and bottom 50% of screen = metal... and only the bottom 25% of the top half would actually show anything... and maybe for shits and giggles we could block off some of that on the edges with more metal... also due to poor air flow his character should have a fatigue meter that fills rapidly and then his char gets extra slow or cant breathe and dies. yup thats my kind of realism!
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Bobthehero on September 29, 2011, 12:07:08 am
Matey re-read what I typed, good helmet=not a big loss of vision.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Christo on September 29, 2011, 12:07:45 am
Poor air flow? nah.

I never had a Great Helmet on, but the folks I know who wore one said that airflow was okay, the vision was alright, maybe a bit limited, but not THAT much. Only downside is that you can't really hear things.

Also If you know the model of the Faceplate, or Full Helm, you know that it's got a ton of holes.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Matey on September 29, 2011, 12:11:58 am
ooooh cant hear eh? forcibly turn their volume down or just forcibly muffle it so its really not very helpful.

also, people in plate should have to walk in a feminine manner as only dickless people wear plate.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Christo on September 29, 2011, 12:13:06 am
Why, you hate plate this much?  :wink:

Also, don't bash on me, My stuff is just PlateMail, not fullPlate.  :mrgreen:

Barely a Tin Man.  :wink:
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Matey on September 29, 2011, 12:15:09 am
metal armour is for wimps. Blue Gambeson + Padded Coif + Light Leather boots and Lamellar gauntlets FTW.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: SchokoSchaf on September 29, 2011, 12:22:40 am
metal armor chafes
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Bobthehero on September 29, 2011, 12:26:47 am
Matey I will kick you in the crotch with a pair of cased greaves, we'll see who lack balls by then*


*No matter the results of the kic, Vaalkon_BRD will always be the one with sexual organs.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Digglez on September 29, 2011, 12:48:35 am
Larger slashing weapons like Nordic Swords & Axes would also do half bludgeoning damage due to the weight of force impacting armor.  Just like when a cop get shots while wearing bullet proof vest, its like getting side kicked in the gut, enough to break bone.

Some of the swords and axes need their weights increased and make their dmg to 'hack' which is some combo of cut & blundgeon dmg. (half & half, 2/3 & 1/3, etc)
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Bobthehero on September 29, 2011, 12:50:13 am
Digglez
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvCvOC2VwDc, perhaps the axe would have a bit more stagger due to the concentrated hit zone, NCS wouldn't do shit.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: rustyspoon on September 29, 2011, 03:12:33 am
What happened to this thread? I thought we were talking about big, sweaty men wrestling.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Ylca on September 29, 2011, 04:41:26 am
It's okay for children to see how people get impaled and hacked down, but GOD FORBID THEY SEE NAKED PEOPLE! THE HORROR!

The naked men might be okay, but naked women would be too much. Have you seen the models? Traumatizing.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Konrax on October 04, 2011, 02:18:50 pm
Armour needs to work better, they nerfed it.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Xant on October 04, 2011, 08:33:44 pm
Armour needs to work better, they nerfed it.

lol
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Siiem on October 04, 2011, 08:35:19 pm
Armour needs to work better, they nerfed it.

This! Everything kills me in 2 hits :(
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: GreatKali on October 04, 2011, 09:32:28 pm
Pierce weapons deal massive dmg on plate since the soak  has been nerfd even 3 peasants with their small daggers can beat the shit out of u because every hit goes right through ur armor.

The 1 who had the idea to nerf the armor soak also said that the pierce and blunt weapons will get an advantage after it and that these weapons also had to be nerfd but these Weapons dont got nerfd !! WHY NOT?!! Plz nerf pierce and blunt weapons to make armor worth again!!
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Siiem on October 04, 2011, 10:03:09 pm
Pierce weapons deal massive dmg on plate since the soak  has been nerfd even 3 peasants with their small daggers can beat the shit out of u because every hit goes right through ur armor.

The 1 who had the idea to nerf the armor soak also said that the pierce and blunt weapons will get an advantage after it and that these weapons also had to be nerfd but these Weapons dont got nerfd !! WHY NOT?!! Plz nerf pierce and blunt weapons to make armor worth again!!

 :lol:
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on October 05, 2011, 10:06:33 am
I really think that they should also add in a "sanity" system. In real life if someone who was a peasant saw a man in full black armor he'd probably flee in absolute horror. Anyone who isn't in at least 15 pounds of armor should have a rapidly rising meter the closer they are to a plate wearer, and when this gauge is full it should cause them to randomly drop an item and flee in terror.

No true, the English have always had a reputation for pure insanity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agincourt The bulk of the English army wear in mail and padded leather. The french were tooled up to an extreme degree.

A man wearing so much armour he can bearly move will be over whelmed and killed by a small group of faster padded nobbers.

The upkeep on any form of heraldic or plate would have to be very high, 10k per round. Then it would be realistic. Most of us peasants would have a snow balls chance in hell of being able to aford heavy plate and its upkeep.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Siiem on October 05, 2011, 12:57:45 pm
A man wearing so much armour he can bearly move will be over whelmed and killed by a small group of faster padded nobbers.

But... people are able to do cartwheels and run full speed in full plate.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: LordSnow on October 05, 2011, 01:01:36 pm
Armour needs to work better, they nerfed it.

sure :D

+11
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: rustyspoon on October 05, 2011, 01:46:20 pm
Armour needs to work better, they nerfed it.

^ this. When I wear my armor sometimes people can kill me in as little as 5 hits. Obviously I should need to be hit at least 30 times before I am dead. The devs need to fix this horrible change to armor. I need to be able to stroll out into the battlefield, go AFK for a few minutes and when I come back I should be completely unharmed. Buff armor!
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: RandomDude on October 05, 2011, 03:15:45 pm
lol at this thread

plate is only strong when ppl just go "smack smack smack - whaaat? my slash attack is not doing enoguh dmg??? but its 30 cut, much better tham my 22 pierce...."
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Bobthehero on October 05, 2011, 07:14:35 pm
A man wearing so much armour he can bearly move will be over whelmed and killed by a small group of faster padded nobbers.

(click to show/hide)
Big pic, but fitting for such idiocy.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on October 08, 2011, 10:27:54 pm
Also, 1 shotting people in clothes and naked no matter the weapon or the build is a must.

it's fukken weird to see someone without head protection surviving a sneaky overhead attack and still able to overrun you after the hit.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: TehSoviet on October 19, 2011, 07:33:10 am
In real life 1h weapons are effective against plate.  You just have to aim for the joints or thrust.  So swords in addition to hammers and picks should be able to damage plate, though not as much.  That is exactly how it is in game now!

Most people don't like realism arguments (I'm not one of them), so in that case it is important for balance issues as well.  Plate would be too powerful if only blunt/pierce could damage them at all.

If I was a peasant, I wouldn't flee from a fully plated guy.  Just doge/parry the first attack and tackle him.  Then gouge his eyes and armor joints with your pointy stick or dagger. :)

Good luck tackling a large, powerful man so used to wearing sixty pounds of steel on his body that he can cartwheel in it. Oh, and watch out for his quick, sharp, and very large pole-axe or great sword, I heard those are dangerous. If he doesn't cut you in half, he will crush your skull with his lobstered-steel gauntlet.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on October 23, 2011, 08:51:02 am
BULLASHITA! Kill this thread already.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Ohayashi on October 27, 2011, 12:01:56 am
I don't know what's worse. Three quarters of this thread being hyper-saturated in sarcasm, or the other quarter taking the former seriously.
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Wookimonsta on October 27, 2011, 09:42:39 am
I really think that they should also add in a "sanity" system. In real life if someone who was a peasant saw a man in full black armor he'd probably flee in absolute horror. Anyone who isn't in at least 15 pounds of armor should have a rapidly rising meter the closer they are to a plate wearer, and when this gauge is full it should cause them to randomly drop an item and flee in terror.

this gets all my votes
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on October 29, 2011, 03:21:03 am
My +1 long dagger is super effective. It's pretty surprising how many people think it is a puny weapon and run onto the end of it to get 1 shotted.  :lol:
Title: Re: 1 handers vs plate armor.
Post by: Laufknoten on October 29, 2011, 05:47:59 pm
My +1 long dagger is super effective. It's pretty surprising how many people think it is a puny weapon and run onto the end of it to get 1 shotted.  :lol:
The Espada Eslavona is even better. It still looks like a butter knife, but the stab is brutal and you can kill most enemys without helmet with just one stab to the face. And 25 cut are still enough to hurt the enemy with swings to the head.