cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Teeth on November 20, 2011, 10:42:49 pm
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This little weapon, hits me twice, I get knockdown twice. Small weapons knockdown far too much, it just looks ridiculous.
Make knockdown chance more dependent on weapon weight!
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Once,I knocked a dude to the ground with a cudgel...
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You were just unlucky, doesnt happen very often.
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My heavy long maul was once blocked on an overhead by a peasant with a sickle.
not really on topic but...
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You were just unlucky, doesnt happen very often.
Probably this, afaik the knockdown factors are: rawdamage, ps, weight.
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Speed.
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I hope this is a joke or we have to hand out a "whiner of the week" award.
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what do you think what happens if a hammer hits you head?
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what do you think what happens if a hammer hits you head?
fail realism
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you loose your consciousness and fall DOWN
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Knockdown is the only thing that keeps this weapons alive. You trade a lot of length for it (well, and blunt damage, but they are not as fast as the piercing equivalents), which means you generally need more agi (thus less str and ps) to hit with it.
And anyway, this:
You were just unlucky, doesnt happen very often.
But yes, being knockdown by a small weapon is frustrating.
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you loose your consciousness and fall DOWN
You think you wouldn't lose consciousness if you were hit in the head by for example a Flameberge or pretty much any weapon?
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A hit in the head by a Flamberge mostly proves very deadly in this mod, too.
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This was an extreme example, which was mostly bad luck, but I think knockdown with small weapons like this hammer or the mace, which I used extensively myself, is a bit too effective.
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(rand(0.0, 1.0) < min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * min((raw_damage - 20.0) * 0.5, 10.0) * 0.015)
This is the line that determines knockdown as far as I know. Assuming that a good hit will most likely hit the upper border for the raw_damage(40 dam), even with a 1h mace, it would simplify to:
(rand(0.0, 1.0) < min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * 0.15)
With a weapon lighter than the upper weight limit of 6, it would further simplify to:
(rand(0.0, 1.0) < item_weight * 0.05
So a winged mace with the weight of 1.8 would have a kd chance of 1.8/20 = 9% and a mallet with a weight of 6 would have 6/20=30%. Getting knocked down twice in a row would mean for the mace: 9%*9%=0.081%<1%. Happens less than one in a hundred times. It's a bit more likely for the mallet (30%*30%=9%) but the recipient will most likely be dead before.
I don't really see a problem here. Personally I'd substitude the luck based knockdown with a skillbased one, but that would take work. Also cmp busy and I have dragons to kill.
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Getting knocked down twice in a row would mean for the mace: 9%*9%=0.081%<1%. Happens less than one in a hundred times. It's a bit more likely for the mallet (30%*30%=9%) but the recipient will most likely be dead before.
this 1% happens very often.. does str have influence on it, as i have 29 and knockdown rly like to see me on the ground..
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Knockdown happens too often on 1-hander blunt, just last time i played on siege same guy knock me down with warhammer like 5 times, 3 in a row...
When i hit with my great maul people gets ko'd in like 1/10 hits with 8ps.
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what do you think what happens if a hammer hits you head?
Fail ^_^
What do you think what happens when great maul hits ur head?
It's game over. :mrgreen:
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Yeah, by that Argumentation, what happens if a horse hits your head?
So we need to make all Headshots instakill and getting bumped by a Horse instacripple with a chance of instadeath.
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I hope this is a joke or we have to hand out a "whiner of the week" award.
I loled. When is that award coming? Do it! I mean really come on DO IT!
NOW
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Last gen I was 24 str shielder and even with 8 ps warhammer, the highest damage 1h mace, fairly rarely knocked anyone down.
Of course when it did it was pretty much a free kill or close to one
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Its pretty much the only reason to use the low level 1h maces (spiked / knobbed mace) over swords of the same price range.
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The fuck is wrong with you people? The 1h maces almost never cause a knockdown. This from a guy with 7PS. IT's because of their very low weight. Yeah, the warhammer knocks down quite a bit, same with the 2h mauls, that's because they have such high weight compared to all the others. The only small mace that knockdowns all the time is the 2h mace because it's so heavy. 2.8 weight compared to the 1.8 or 2.0 or (heaviest and slowest) 2.5 weight of the 1h maces. NOT balanced.
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(rand(0.0, 1.0) < min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * min((raw_damage - 20.0) * 0.5, 10.0) * 0.015)
This is the line that determines knockdown as far as I know. Assuming that a good hit will most likely hit the upper border for the raw_damage(40 dam), even with a 1h mace, it would simplify to:
(rand(0.0, 1.0) < min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * 0.15)
With a weapon lighter than the upper weight limit of 6, it would further simplify to:
(rand(0.0, 1.0) < item_weight * 0.05
So a winged mace with the weight of 1.8 would have a kd chance of 1.8/20 = 9% and a mallet with a weight of 6 would have 6/20=30%. Getting knocked down twice in a row would mean for the mace: 9%*9%=0.081%<1%. Happens less than one in a hundred times. It's a bit more likely for the mallet (30%*30%=9%) but the recipient will most likely be dead before.
I don't really see a problem here. Personally I'd substitude the luck based knockdown with a skillbased one, but that would take work. Also cmp busy and I have dragons to kill.
Thanks for the data, I feel like knockdown happens a lot more often, but that is probably cause you pay less attention to the times it doesn't happen. A skillbased knockdown would be cool, but it probably won't be all that hard to master and it will lead to continous knockdown in the hands of some skilled players.
One thing that pisses me off about knockdown though. They hit you, you get knockdown, they hit you again, kick and get another hit. Thats three hits for the price of one.
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Thanks for the data, I feel like knockdown happens a lot more often, but that is probably cause you pay less attention to the times it doesn't happen. A skillbased knockdown would be cool, but it probably won't be all that hard to master and it will lead to continous knockdown in the hands of some skilled players.
One thing that pisses me off about knockdown though. They hit you, you get knockdown, they hit you again, kick and get another hit. Thats three hits for the price of one.
I also have to say thanks for the data. Forgot to do that in my other post :/ If someone could convert the formula to "normal" maths instead of coding math, I'll add it to the wiki. Or add it yourself if you want to xD.
http://wiki.c-rpg.net/index.php?title=Knockdown
@SgtTheeth: Having a skill knockdown really could be a bitch, like you said. I dunno how it could be done without being OP in the hands of someone knowing how to do it. Maybe if they made it require skill AND a bit luck? Like, it wouldn't go above 50% chance, but would require something skillful to get that high? Anyone got any ideas about that?
Also; the get hit, knockdown, hit while down, kick, then hit a third time is a bitch when it happens to you. But it is something that actually requires you to time it right and do something skillfully, which is MUCH more fair than, for example, a hiltslash which is just "skilled" spam. I'd rather have a guy do something skillfully and get three hits than a spammer get in one or two.
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Hiltslashes aren't all that easy to do and are quite situational, also very easy to see them coming and to just double block. Or chamber or move to the right direction. I find the knockdown kick much more frustrating cause you can't do anything about it.
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One thing that pisses me off about knockdown though. They hit you, you get knockdown, they hit you again, kick and get another hit. Thats three hits for the price of one.
Meh, compared with falling off a horse it's not bad. The kick might miss and then you have a chance to counter.
What I notice when my horse gets killed is that the guy who killed it can walk up to me and hit me, miss me and hit me again before I can raise the block on my shield.
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so because the hammer is lighter it has a significant less chance to knock down?
thank you i like it when you guys put up stuff like this that shows exactly what the code does it makes it seem like evidence for your case lol
btw ive heard hear say about you guys removing blocks from long spears is that true?
*ALSO does getting hit in the head/legs give you a better chance to knockdown????