Bill vs Bec

[chief]

English Bill   7589   
weight 4
requirement 14
spd rtng 89
weapon length 174
swing damage 27, pierce
thrust damage 29 pierce

Bec de Corbin   7312   
weight 2.8
requirement 14
spd rtng 93
weapon length 120
swing damage 36, pierce
thrust damage 26 pierce

It seems logical that the long, heavy, slow weapon should have significantly more swing damage than the short, light, fast weapon. This seems to be the general idea behind all the other weapons. A Military Sickle has just one less damage than the Bill. Something is off, I suggest raising the swing damage of the bill to a reasonable amount.(Keep in mind that the Bill is overhead swing only).

[Stabby_Dave]

Yea those stats do seem pretty weird. I was thinking of buying the bill until i saw how bad it was.

[Seawied]

you're forgetting to mention the reach on it. It gives the weapon a different purpose than the bec

[Vexus]

I was thinking on using bill too bad you can't use it with shield.

And yea while it's dmg is lower bill's reach is on 150 while bec near 100.

[bruce]

You do know you can't swing the bill? It's like a pike, stab and overhead only.

[Joker86]

Then it's just real crap. Who would buy it over (Long Awl-) Pike? 

[Vexus]

I wanted it for the upward hit in pierce to use as a spear but yea it's kinda useless near the long awlpike.

[Joker86]

Long Awlpike
5242
weight 2.25
requirement 11
spd rtng 89
weapon length 185
swing damage 18, blunt
thrust damage 32 pierce
Can't use on horseback

English Bill
7589
weight 4
requirement 14
spd rtng 89
weapon length 174
swing damage 27, pierce
thrust damage 29 pierce
Can't use on horseback

Bad balancing fail. 

[Joxer]

Not so. It does huge damage from the overhead. Almost the same as thrust. No other polearm does that. I love mine and wish to marr... heirloom it few times

[Joker86]

Even if you are right - this is not worth 7589 

[bruce]

The price is a bit high, but it's not a bad weapon as such when you think about it, I just wouldn't make it my primary choice of a polearm, I guess. The range makes it decent enough for a support weapon, and the high damage pierce overhead is much much better then the (lightish) blunt damage of the, eg. awlpikes.

[chief]

Not so. It does huge damage from the overhead. Almost the same as thrust. No other polearm does that. I love mine and wish to marr... heirloom it few times

What about the bec...you know, the weapon I was comparing it to? Or any of the poleaxes, long axes, hafted blades, clubs or the glaive?

Right now it's a prettier, slightly longer version of the Swiss Halberd, with a crappier overhead attack. It's a mediocre support weapon, the overhead is not even worth the difficulty it is to land, and the thrust is lower than the other support polearms.

[bruce]

What about the bec...you know, the weapon I was comparing it to?

The bec is really short. Axes, poleaxes, etc are all shorter, too. The bill is much more effective for stopping horses (and generally killing them, 29p is a lot), supporting teammates (174 range makes it much eaiser), etc.

[Joker86]

EITHER:

English Bill
3520 (same price a long voulge, I spontaneously estimated about the same value on the battlefield)
weight 4
requirement 14
spd rtng 89
weapon length 174
swing damage 27, pierce
thrust damage 29 pierce
Can't use on horseback

OR:

English Bill
7589
weight 4
requirement 14
spd rtng 92 (89)
weapon length 174
swing damage 34(27), pierce
thrust damage 31(29) pierce
Can't use on horseback

[chief]

The bec is really short. Axes, poleaxes, etc are all shorter, too. The bill is much more effective for stopping horses (and generally killing them, 29p is a lot), supporting teammates (174 range makes it much eaiser), etc.

"Not so. It does huge damage from the overhead. Almost the same as thrust. No other polearm does that."

I was responding to the above (which is false), the other attributes of the weapons I mentioned are irrelevant.
__________________________________________________________
Any way...
The bill doesn't really have a niche, there is no one saying "I want a weapon with less reach and thrust damage than a pike that also has an inferior overhead to a long voulge". It's above average at stopping cav, less than average at support, and useless in 1 on 1.

My suggestion for new stats,

English Bill   
weight 4
requirement 14
spd rtng 88
weapon length 174
swing damage 35, pierce
thrust damage 24 pierce
bonus against shields?
___________

 Just by looking at it, stabbing shouldn't be its' specialty. It should be for taking the rider off of a stopped horse (something that a pike isn't really able to do), taking the shield out of someones hand, dealing damage to an occupied knight...thoughts?